The new Playstation3 controller - motion sensitive

LookingFor

Well this was a surprise..



Basically a tweaked, wireless Dualshock 2 (no boomerang!) with gyroscopes for motion sensitivity - but no rumble. Detects motion on 6 axis.

Hands-on impressions:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705934p1.html

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149586.html

Hands-on impressions and video of Warhawk being demoed with the controller:

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=6149597&pid=928383

monkeyfudge

Well I'm glad it's not the banana... but this design is around 10 years old at this stage... could they not have come up with something better?

LookingFor

They tried, people hated it - back to the old and familiar. It is tweaked a bit though - the analog sticks apparently have been improved and the shoulder buttons have been modified a little.

smokingman

Anyone notice that the cheaper version of the ps3 has no wi-fi, HDMI or memory stick/SD/compact flash support?

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509ae.pdf

oh and there's no more rumble in the controllers either - it interferes with the tilt sensors (didn't the game boy have a tilt sensor/rumble pack three or four years ago for a kirby game?)

Here's a hands-on... http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705934p1.html

Vegeta

why fix what aint broke, looking forward to it

LookingFor

smokingman wrote:

Anyone notice that the cheaper version of the ps3 has no wi-fi, HDMI or memory stick/SD/compact flash support?

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509ae.pdf

So wired controllers for the poor so yeah?

Wi-fi doesn't mean wireless controllers. As far as I know, wireless controllers are in both packages.

It's a bummer they cut the HDMI from the other version, but at least the HDD is standard.

Kinetic^

smokingman wrote:

Anyone notice that the cheaper version of the ps3 has no wi-fi, HDMI or memory stick/SD/compact flash support?

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509ae.pdf

So wired controllers for the poor so yeah?

That's pretty ****, at least MS gave you the potential to have everything.

LookingFor

Keyser Soze 5 wrote:

That's pretty ****, at least MS gave you the potential to have everything.

Huh? You can get 'everything' for the higher price.

Ciaran500

But you can't upgrade from the 20gb version after you buy it.

LookingFor

Ciaran500 wrote:

But you can't upgrade from the 20gb version after you buy it.

What makes you think you can't? They're removeable HDDs.

Ciaran500

Well the wifi, card reader and HDMI slot is built in.

smokingman

LookingFor wrote:

What makes you think you can't? They're removeable HDDs.

You'll be able to upgrade the HDD alright but I think what Ciaran500 was talking about was the lack of HDMI, Wi-Fi and the memory card support which is lacking in the cheaper version.

Ciaran500

Also why only 4 lights on the back of the controller? I thought it was 7

LookingFor

smokingman wrote:

You'll be able to upgrade the HDD alright but I think what Ciaran500 was talking about was the lack of HDMI, Wi-Fi and the memory card support which is lacking in the cheaper version.

I would say a wifi peripheral will be made available.

As for HDMI, you can't upgrade to that on 360 either.

As for memory cards..you have a HDD there now. But if you need to move data around, methinks it should be possible to transfer things to other devices via the network - for example a PSP memory stick over wifi, perhaps. Although I do think it's odd there's no memory stick support in the cheaper version.

smokingman

Ciaran500 wrote:

Also why only 4 lights on the back of the controller? I thought it was 7

Only four controller but the other three are going to be used for wireless headsets and other such devices for the 4 players.

I'm afraid it isn't a 7 player console.

Kinetic^

Meh, still not impressed yet.

projectmayhem

smokingman wrote:

You'll be able to upgrade the HDD alright but I think what Ciaran500 was talking about was the lack of HDMI, Wi-Fi and the memory card support which is lacking in the cheaper version.

i'd say you'll be able to get extra plug-in type things in the future. but it's certainly worth the extra €100 to get the 60gb version

on the motion detection thing - what this really means is that microsoft is potentially being left behind. a few weeks ago peter moore said ps3 and nintendo aren't opening up for "innovation" (i know, he's a clown), but right now, xbox360 is the only console that's done nothing new.

live is a great service, but sony have it... for free! microsoft would want to have some killer announcement this year. halo3 wont make up for sony and nintendo's progress

Burning Eclipse

On the (revolutionary and completely new) control pad, there's a button between the start and select buttons that ps3.ign has dubbed the "guide" button... FFS, is there a single concept in this console that Sony didn't rip from Nintendo or Microsoft??

LookingFor

Yes, Burning Eclipse, there is

If it all works - and it seems to - then it's only a good thing. People shouldn't get precious about things that ultimately should make a product better, whomever it comes from. I mean, Wii was by Nintendo's own admission partially inspired by Sony's success with eyetoy.

Back on to the controller, apparently the analog sticks have been improved - they have technically more accuracy now, from 8-bit sensitivity to 10-bit. The sticks are also a little broader, apparently.

shortys94

I like the way they protruded the L2 and R2 buttons out, maybe it will feel more satisfying and springy if you know what i mean as the nintendo gamecubes controllers shoulder buttons.....

I like the way sony have stuck to the old design, Im sure there will be an adaptor to use 360 controllers and if wanted wii controllers on PS3, and third parties may introduce some different designed controllers.....

What exactly is not included in lower priced PS3

Ciaran500

HDMI, wireless and a card reader.

iregk

I thought Sony really could have come up with something better. I've never like the Sony Dual Shock and yes i know thats a matter of personal opinion but it has nothing on the xbox s controller for me anyway.

Its a tired old design thats now 10years old and I was really hoping for sony to move on from it.

steviec

Are the face buttons still analog? I was very very disappointed when they removed that from the 360. It's practically a prerequisite for Gran Turismo, though I suppose accelerate/brake functions are going to be moved onto the new triggers.

I think the motion sensing opens a lot of doors. In a FPS for example you retain your usual dual analog control, but could quickly flick the pad to target someone towards the edge of the screen rather than having to use the analog to look straight at them. While the Wii remote obviously suits point and shoot more naturally, I've already said I have reservations about how will it will work when you want to turn around, there's a lack of controls for switching weapons, issuing orders to team mates, using items, jumping, bringing up maps etc. etc. With the PS3 you have everything you always had and that bit extra.

The Warhawk developer pointed out you can now move the target around the screen instead of just where the ship is pointing, that wasn't possible when they just had two analogue sticks. This means things like driveby shootings in GTA might finally be useful as you have that extra dimension to play with. You can move one way, look another way, and point your gun a third direction and you couldn't do that before. And I'm not entirely sure you can do that on the Wii.

Then we have leaning into turns on a motorbike or in wipeout, no more messing around with shoulder buttons. Leaning around a corner in MGS could be far more natural than it has been in the past.

It's not something thats going to make developers completely rethink how they make games like the Wii. What it is is a subtle change that could really add a lot to some already great games.

Ciaran500

steviec wrote:

While the Wii remote obviously suits point and shoot more naturally, I've already said I have reservations about how will it will work when you want to turn around, there's a lack of controls for switching weapons, issuing orders to team mates, using items, jumping, bringing up maps etc. etc. With the PS3 you have everything you always had and that bit extra.

The Wii controller has 6 buttons on it, 2 less than the 360/PS3 pad. With the motion sensor you can track some of those features to hand movement. e.g. In Red Steel you could twist the nunchaku to turn the handle of the doors or thrust it forward to kick it open.

Dermo

anybody else find it funny they're still calling it the dualshock when it doesn't have it's rumble anymore?

Burning Eclipse

This isn't fact but I could've sworn I read somewhere that Blu-ray disks are copy-protected so that if the output isn't through HDMI then the resolution is cut back to standard def rather than PS3's much touted 1080p.... where would this leave the lesser system in terms of movie playback?? Not positive, will do some more digging...

steviec

Ciaran500 wrote:

The Wii controller has 6 buttons on it, 2 less than the 360/PS3 pad. With the motion sensor you can track some of those features to hand movement. e.g. In Red Steel you could twist the nunchaku to turn the handle of the doors or thrust it forward to kick it open.

On the Wii, using the nunchuck configuration, you'll have one analogue stick, one trigger, two shoulder buttons and one face button at your disposal. There is also one d-pad and a couple more face buttons that look pretty awkward to get to holding the joypad vertically as you would be when using the attachment. This doesn't compare to two full clickable analog sticks, 4 face buttons, 2 shoulder buttons, 2 triggers and a d-pad all in easy reach at all times.

Nintendo have pretty much gone on record saying they've dumbed down the Wii controller to lure casual gamers. And while great games don't always need to have complicated control schemes, its always good for the developer to have options.

Oh and gesture recognition doesn't make up for buttons. Have you played Black & White? The novelty value is replaced by annoyance very fast.

Vegeta

Burning Eclipse wrote:

This isn't fact but I could've sworn I read somewhere that Blu-ray disks are copy-protected so that if the output isn't through HDMI then the resolution is cut back to standard def rather than PS3's much touted 1080p.... where would this leave the lesser system in terms of movie playback?? Not positive, will do some more digging...

What other video outs does the barebones PS3 have

Vegeta

component video (according to wikipedia) will display 1080p but not as well as the HDMI, so does the cheap PS3 have component video out. Cant see why sony with limit their format to only play on a HDMI connection, shooting themselves in the foot

Burning Eclipse

http://gear.ign.com/articles/691/691408p1.html

From that article it looks like you'll need HDMI or DVI. The press release just says multi AV out so they'd better include DVI in that otherwise BluRay films will be cut down to sub 720p resolution on the 20gb version. Won't have any effect on games as you said Vegeta but films have the copy encoding on them....

Vegeta

Burning Eclipse wrote:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/691/691408p1.html

From that article it looks like you'll need HDMI or DVI. The press release just says multi AV out so they'd better include DVI in that otherwise BluRay films will be cut down to sub 720p resolution on the 20gb version. Won't have any effect on games as you said Vegeta but films have the copy encoding on them....

oh the knob lords, well the whole copy protection thing isn't Sony's doing but for their own good they better put the ol DVI interface in there or else

Vegeta

But the 360 doesn't have a DVI either does it

steviec

Vegeta wrote:

But the 360 doesn't have a DVI either does it

The 360 doesn't play blu ray movies though. The HD-DVD add on may include a HDMI out.

Couldn't Sony just have a special cable that goes from the the 'AV Multi out' to a HDMI input on the tv? Typically consoles have one output and this can be transferred to any type of input a tv may have depending on the cable used. Whatever copy protection HDMI uses could be incorporated into the multi-out couldn't it?

I was thinking this because Sony were pushing the whole one PS3 to two HDMI TVs thing last year, which would make sense on the premium console, the multi-out is your normal display and can be HDMI, Component, SCART, whatever, and then the dedicated HDMI is for a second display.

Maybe just wishful thinking on my part

Ciaran500

The multi our it analogue and the HDMI is digital, which is why they don't mix them.

GrumPy

Is it confirmed there's no force feedback? LOL

Ciaran500

It was never mentioned at the show.

LookingFor

Rumble is out for now. I'd prefer both, but I'd easily take the motion sensing over the rumble if it's a matter of one or the other. Maybe with further work they'll be able to include both together before launch, but as is, they say that the motion sensing and rumble interfered with one another (technically).

monkeyfudge

I watched the video of the conference earlier, using that motion sensitive function makes you look like total spaz.

I really wish they'd redesigned the controller... the PS2 controller is by far the worst of the controllers currently out there.. why is such prominence still being given to the D-pad?

I do hate the triangle, circle, square stuff as well... but that's part of thier brand identy, so I guess they were never going to do away with that... I just tend to remember the position of letters better.

LookingFor

monkeyfudge wrote:

I watched the video of the conference earlier, using that motion sensitive function makes you look like total spaz.

Reports from IGN/Gamespot/1up are glowing with regards to the controller in Warhawk. Apparently it just works, quite perfectly.

The thing about "looking like a total spaz" is that for the E3 demo, they turned the sensitivity down so that you would have to use greater movement, but in the game you'll be able to customise the sensitivity to your own needs. There's no reason why you couldn't turn it up so you'd be using more subtle motion.

projectmayhem

monkeyfudge wrote:

I watched the video of the conference earlier, using that motion sensitive function makes you look like total spaz.

I really wish they'd redesigned the controller... the PS2 controller is by far the worst of the controllers currently out there.. why is such prominence still being given to the D-pad?

I do hate the triangle, circle, square stuff as well... but that's part of thier brand identy, so I guess they were never going to do away with that... I just tend to remember the position of letters better.

the guy being a spaz looks like it was just for show. i'd say they pushed him on stage and said "oi, look like that Wii video we saw!"... but everyone's saying it's actually far more intuitive and less... drunkish then that guy.

as for redesigning. they did! no one liked it. the vast majority of people said the ps2 controller was absolutely perfect... so they stuck with it

GrumPy

projectmayhem wrote:

the vast majority of people said the ps2 controller was absolutely perfect... so they stuck with it

the ps2 pad WAS good, with it's rumble features and such...

steviec

Irish GrumPy wrote:

the ps2 pad WAS good, with it's rumble features and such...

Its just a background feature you barely notice. PC gamers don't miss it.

I like the new pad, I already love the design and am glad their keeping it, and the tilt sensor will be like an intuitive third analog stick. Though I've no doubt they had some inspiration from Nintendo, in practice it will work completely differently to the Wii and will complement the already fully featured controller.

I'm worried about reports that its too light though, a joypad needs a bit of weight to give a good solid feeling.

GrumPy

steviec wrote:

Its just a background feature you barely notice. PC gamers don't miss it.

you may not notice, but when I pick up a pad, fire a gun, and get shot WITHOUT feedback, I play very ****. Rubmle adds a very important feature IMO. I would miss it, you may not.

shortys94

I dont really mind about the rumble, would third parties release rumble controllers for the console? I suppose we should at least get rumble for 600 euro....

On an off topic note, is the PS3 overall a much better console than the 360? Is the graphics card better etc?

steviec

shortys94 wrote:

I dont really mind about the rumble, would third parties release rumble controllers for the console? I suppose we should at least get rumble for 600 euro....

On an off topic note, is the PS3 overall a much better console than the 360? Is the graphics card better etc?

I assume the joypad can only rumble when the software tells it to rumble. Which means i its not a part of the PS3 no third parties are going to be able to put it in either.

Hmmm there must be a lot of people scratching their heads at the likes of Logitech and Madcatz at the moment wondering how to approach the Wii and PS3...

4Xcut

shortys94 wrote:

I suppose we should at least get rumble for 600

I don't think it is possible to have a rumble function with the motion sensor.
The reason is that small as they may be the "rumbles" are motion. And that would more than likely interfere with the motion sensors. I may be wrong but i also read that $ony have said the rumble does interfere with the motion sensors.

Ciaran500

The Wiimote has rumble and motion sensor.

4Xcut

Well that's just ruined my little theory then:(

Maybe sony are just being pricks

jesus_thats_gre

steviec wrote:

Couldn't Sony just have a special cable that goes from the the 'AV Multi out' to a HDMI input on the tv? Typically consoles have one output and this can be transferred to any type of input a tv may have depending on the cable used. Whatever copy protection HDMI uses could be incorporated into the multi-out couldn't it?

The multi out will offer a choice of stand composite out and component out or something along those lines.. I can't see them offering DVI or HDMI on the lower model. Remember, HDMI and DVI are closely relate. I doubt DVI will appear on the PS3 at all - well not unless you convert from HDMI to DVI using an add on.

HDMI/DVI were designed as digital technologies and with the likes of HDCP in mind. I doubt HDCP works on analogue standards..

Ciaran500

The Dualshock was the worst of the last gen controllers. Horrible placed inaccurate analog sticks with rounded tops that seem to repel your thumbs and face buttons that you had to mash to keep at 100%

Crucifix

I thought the rumble was a copyright issue?