Has anyone thought of this ?

jetsonx

I am amazed and (I am sure anybody visiting Dublin from any developed
country) that we do not have things called underpasses on our roads.

Are we the only old-time EU member country that has to wait in a long line
of traffic for a train to pass ? Even small towns in rural France and Germany use them. I am by no means au fait with civil engineering but surely it cant be that difficult to design or built them ?

I am aware that this petty gripe should not take precedence over other issues
in our society but it might make life a little easier for everyone.

darkman2

jetsonx wrote:

I am amazed and (I am sure anybody visiting Dublin from any developed
country) that we do not have things called underpasses on our roads.

Are we the only old-time EU member country that has to wait in a long line
of traffic for a train to pass ? Even small towns in rural France and Germany use them. I am by no means au fait with civil engineering but surely it cant be that difficult to design or built them ?

I am aware that this petty gripe should not take precedence over other issues
in our society but it might make life a little easier for everyone.

Maybe im just being a bit slow but I dont quite understand what you mean. Could you elaborate a bit more?:)

murphaph

jetsonx wrote:

Are we the only old-time EU member country that has to wait in a long line of traffic for a train to pass ?
No, every country has level crossings.

I am aware that this petty gripe should not take precedence over other issues
in our society but it might make life a little easier for everyone.

No, you make a good point. We make no use of underpasses at all and there are quite a few places where they could make a difference. I'd like to see them constructed wherever possible/required. They are a neat solution and so unobtrusive when compared to bridges. Unfirtunately most of Dublin's level crossings are along the Maynooth line and therefore the Royal Canal presents a problem that makes the provision of underpasses much more difficult. Landsdowne Road would have been made an underpass in Germany long ago and should definitely form part of the stadium upgrade but that seems far from certain at this stage.

We could do wth a lot of road/road and road/pedestrian underpasses too!

jetsonx

darkman2 wrote:

Maybe im just being a bit slow but I dont quite understand what you mean. Could you elaborate a bit more?:)

An "underpass" is an alternative to a bridge except it goes underground instead of overground.

MarkoP11

The Dublin Transportation Office recommended the removal of all level crossings on the southside

Its extremely expensive, from a rail users perspective Lansdowne Rd is where the delays are, for the road user its Sydney Parade and Merrion

Maynooth line is apin owing to the canal, I understand the crossing at Clonsilla is to be closed

And for the record level crossings exist elsewhere in Europe, money is the issue the works required are not trivial these are the oldest level crossings in the world still in full use

darkman2

jetsonx wrote:

An "underpass" is an alternative to a bridge except it goes underground instead of overground.

Oh I know what you mean now. Yeah good idea. TBH im not sure why they havnt been introduced.

TempestSabre

MarkoP11 wrote:

...
Maynooth line is apin owing to the canal, I understand the crossing at Clonsilla is to be closed....

Where did you hear that?

r3nu4l

That sounds like a really good idea OP! I know there is a level crossing in Roscommon (don't know where) where there has been several accidents over recent years. Surely, they could begin with crossings where there have been serious accidents?

MarkoP11

Several hundred have been closed in recent years most are farm crossings

Each crossing is subject to a risk assement and if possible they are replaced with an overpass if feasible or outright closed or upgraded road realigned etc

Accidents at level crossings generally happen due to risk taking motorists and members of the public who fail to use the crossing in a safe manner

I understand a new bridge close to Clonsilla will allow the crossing to be eliminated and traffic diverted, its a lethal location on a curve with the canal behind

popebenny16

pedestrian underpasses can be dicey: there was a big one under the Ballymun Road that was fun to be sure.

also there's a fine underpass for cattle on the limerick-dublin road just outside Dunkerin

Benster

Yes, just about every time I go out the N4 I think what the OP thunk. why oh why is there no underpass for traffic going out of Dublin on that road? It seems ridiculous that all that traffic going out should have to come to a halt at one of the worst-placed set of lights in the city to let local traffic on to the road.

Rant over

dmeehan

would an underpass at merrion gates work? would there be a risk of flodding as it is practically on the beach?

dr zoidberg

Benster wrote:

Yes, just about every time I go out the N4 I think what the OP thunk. why oh why is there no underpass for traffic going out of Dublin on that road? It seems ridiculous that all that traffic going out should have to come to a halt at one of the worst-placed set of lights in the city to let local traffic on to the road.

Rant over

I presume you're talking about the Newcastle road junction, well the N4 will pass under this road in the future, it will be fully grade-separated there, and it's badly needed too.
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=22&deptid=12&dpageid=351

mysterious

dr zoidberg wrote:

I presume you're talking about the Newcastle road junction, well the N4 will pass under this road in the future, it will be fully grade-separated there, and it's badly needed too.
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=22&deptid=12&dpageid=351

Newlands cross is more urgent.... without a doubt.. tailbacks are now back to beyond citywest even in midday... it will get worse when the Redcow is upgraded... even then they are doing an arse of that, with traffic lights bout inbound towards the city at the Monastery Bridge and the luas silts etc.. Btw the luas could have been an underpass as in under the M50, surley it would be expensive but at least half the country wouldn't in the held up we are in today! not to mention how much the portunnell costed us!!!

Capt'n Midnight

mysterious wrote:

Newlands cross is more urgent.... without a doubt.. tailbacks are now back to beyond citywest even in midday... it will get worse when the Redcow is upgraded... even then they are doing an arse of that, with traffic lights bout inbound towards the city at the Monastery Bridge and the luas silts etc.. Btw the luas could have been an underpass as in under the M50, surley it would be expensive but at least half the country wouldn't in the held up we are in today! not to mention how much the portunnell costed us!!!

Newlands Cross the problem is that the Belgard Road is a 80Kmph dual carrige way, with filter lanes for those turning right. Once you cross the junction you are on a single lane road. It looks like two lanes but northbound traffic trying to edge in to the left lane before the lights means the left lane ain't even close to free flowing even if you ignore the traffic turning into ALDI and the Garage. Southbound you've got four lanes being fed from one lane. All in all the section of road in front of the garage is a lesson in taffic calming and how to reduce capacity without having to use ramps.

Light sequences might help or perhaps a roundabout (though this would mean in the mornings the traffic past the garden centre would saturate it) Something needs to be done because in the evenings a lot of traffic remains in the junction blocking the N4.

Danno

Too much rain in Ireland for that - they'd flood alot.

Even where roads have been lowered under existing bridges - these flood.

murphaph

That's what drains are for. Drains of course, require the odd bit of maintenance, which they don't get in Ireland, hence the flashflooding under J6 of the M50 etc.

There's loads of places in Dublin that would have seen an underpass constructed had it been another European city.

Snickers Man

murphaph wrote:

Landsdowne Road would have been made an underpass in Germany long ago and should definitely form part of the stadium upgrade but that seems far from certain at this stage.

I'm pretty sure an underpass is in the plans for the new Lansdowne Road stadium. If an Bord Pleanala doesn't insist on it, FIFA certainly will. That place is a death trap.

murphaph

Snickers Man wrote:

I'm pretty sure an underpass is in the plans for the new Lansdowne Road stadium. If an Bord Pleanala doesn't insist on it, FIFA certainly will. That place is a death trap.

You're tellin me. My seat is in the West stand and I have to get out onto Landsdowne Rd, cross the road against the flow of people to get to the footpath along the railway to get across the Dodder. My old uncle comes along and he has almost been crushed a few times when the gates have been closed. Bloody nightmare.

Victor

Benster wrote:

Yes, just about every time I go out the N4 I think what the OP thunk. why oh why is there no underpass for traffic going out of Dublin on that road? It seems ridiculous that all that traffic going out should have to come to a halt at one of the worst-placed set of lights in the city to let local traffic on to the road.

You can thank the late Liam Lawlor in part.

dmeehan wrote:

would an underpass at merrion gates work? would there be a risk of flodding as it is practically on the beach?

That section has actually flooded in the past, in extreme conditions, conditions which are likely to become more common.

Potentially, one uses the eastern bypass to create a dyke, that will prevent most of the flooding. However, you still need to get rid of four level crossings. If you put the railway in a cutting, you risk flooding the cutting, if you elevate it, the lovely residents of D4 complain about noise and views (of their gardens / bedrooms). If you elevate the roads, you cut off quite a few properties on the ramps to the road bridges.

One could of course do it half way, elevating the railway partially (say 2m) and putting in underpasses with height restrictions (say 3m) at Lansdowne-Sydney Parade and the mother of all overbridges at Merrion Gates.

Snickers Man wrote:

I'm pretty sure an underpass is in the plans for the new Lansdowne Road stadium. If an Bord Pleanala doesn't insist on it, FIFA certainly will. That place is a death trap.

The proposal is to have a wide bridge for fans over the railway, which doesn't really solve the day-to-day problem.

dowlingm

Presumably it's easier to have the railway go under than over, since the railway is unlikely to have oversize loads hitting the bridge since the container size (carriage or container or whatever) is never likely to go above a certain figure. Sometimes huge components travel by road so unless you need a road/road crossing road over rail under is preferable I guess.