eL players for the national squad

blu_sonic

just trying to lighten it up, it gets way too serious when El and Epl are mentioned in the same thread. I've openions on it but it will only rile people up if i express them, look at it thins way eirbhoy already was pointing the finger at me for something so i'm just trying to keep things frosty!!

cournioni

I think there should be more EL players in the squad, given the time of the year.

blu_sonic

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I think there should be more EL players in the squad, given the time of the year.

i'd have to agree, the reason being we all know how good the EPL players are, they really are very good. The EL players are something of an "unknown quantity", I mean EL fans know that they are good week in week out in the EL but thats like against like, what about at international level? I think (hope) jayo/Joey surprise the majority of posters here in the way Kevin Doyle did.

Kingp35

blu_sonic wrote:

i'd have to agree, the reason being we all know how good the EPL players are, they really are very good. The EL players are something of an "unknown quantity", I mean EL fans know that they are good week in week out in the EL but thats like against like, what about at international level? I think (hope) jayo/Joey surprise the majority of posters here in the way Kevin Doyle did.

Seriously lads think about what your saying. This is only Stans second game and he needs to get the team right for the start of the European Qualifiers in a few months time. Fair enough you should bring in a few players to give them a go but you cant bring in loads of new players on the basis that other players are already known to be good.

Stan has to use these games to sort out his team and tactics for the upcoming important games and you cant go experimenting too much. If this was a crappy tour of USA or something them fair enough but its only one match and he needs to start deciding on the team and tactics he is going to play.

I know you lads want to see EL players in the squad but they should only be in it if they are good enough. There is only one other player, George O Callaghan, who plays in the EL and is good enough for Ireland.

blu_sonic

and jason gavin IMHO i would like to see him bring the 2 he has and those 2, noone else is IMO ready (yet)

Kingp35

blu_sonic wrote:

and jason gavin IMHO i would like to see him bring the 2 he has and those 2, noone else is IMO ready (yet)

What age is Jason Gavin?

eirebhoy

Kingp35 wrote:

What age is Jason Gavin?

Just gone 26.

cournioni

Kingp35 wrote:

Seriously lads think about what your saying. This is only Stans second game and he needs to get the team right for the start of the European Qualifiers in a few months time. Fair enough you should bring in a few players to give them a go but you cant bring in loads of new players on the basis that other players are already known to be good.

Stan has to use these games to sort out his team and tactics for the upcoming important games and you cant go experimenting too much. If this was a crappy tour of USA or something them fair enough but its only one match and he needs to start deciding on the team and tactics he is going to play.

I know you lads want to see EL players in the squad but they should only be in it if they are good enough. There is only one other player, George O Callaghan, who plays in the EL and is good enough for Ireland.

I think that this would be quite a good time to try out EL players as the EL is in the middle of the season at the moment. The EPL has just finished and players won't be putting in half as much effort as the players from the EL. And I am a United fan.

Chucky the tree

bohsman wrote:

Do you see a difference between a player sitting on the bench in the EPL and playing in the EL?

If the player is good enough to be in the Ireland squad, they should be good enough to make it into the first 11 of an EPL team.

blu_sonic

just because a player isn't in the 1st 11 of an EPL team doesn't mean they aren't good enough to make it onto the 1st 11 of an EPL team. Duffer doesn't get played in the 1st 11 as often as one would hope hes certainly good enough for the 1st 11.

We just don't know if Gamble/Byrne/O'Callaghan/Gavin are good enough its all a matter of openion really. IMO they are good enough

MrJoeSoap

If I was Irish manager, the only current EL player I would even consider starting (friendly or otherwise) at this moment in time is O'Callaghan (putting all grudges aside).

Sure I'd give a few others a chance to show what they can do in training or whatever, maybe stick one or two on the bench depending on how they did in training.

Wes Hoolahan and Kevin Doyle would be right up there too, shame they felt they had to leave the EL, because its the fans of the domestic league who have suffered.

blu_sonic

tbh i don't blame doyle, hoolihan can rot for all i care, i got a massive turn against him due to his leave, that joke shop club he went to would be savaged by bray let alone cork/derry/drogs/shels.

Gorgie for me is a definite starter. All his hard work/determination and great skill deserve a call up.

Joe Gamble is worth a closer look as is Gavin IMO

I'm not too sure about byrne, i can't make up my mind sefinitly worth bringing for a look but worth a run out? on current form, no, but top scorer, year in, year out, yes

Jivin Turkey

How can you say that George O'Callaghan should be a definite starter?

Perhaps he should be given a look because central midfield is not an area that we are flushed with talent but still Steven Reid, John O'Shea (yes JOS!) and Graeme Kavanagh are also all doing it every week, but at a far higher level. I'd even consider Kevin Kilbane or possibly Liam Miller to be ahead of him in the pecking order based on some of their performances past.

O'Callaghan is no spring chicken (27 in a couple of months) does he really have that much to offer at international level? He has excelled since his return to the EL after a disappointing stint in England, could he produce it against some of the worlds best? Maybe he should be given a chance, but I can't fathom how you can say he should be a definite starter.

Gavin is in an even worse boat IMO. Better and younger options.

blu_sonic

see all the lads you mentioned look at all the brian kerr video tapes and we can see what they do in the green, why waste a friendly on players who we have seen international in ann out why not start georgie, its a friendly excuse me if i've made the mistake in thinking you try new things in them.

Jason Gavin is being mentioned in EPL circles will he be as bad as you say if he's starting for reading next season? You are one of the main anti EL posters in here I think its just ill feeling towards the league on your part, I might be wrong I have been before if I am I'm genuinly sorry.

But really what is there to loose in a friendly, O'Callaghan definite starter IMO.

(i think you may have gotten me wring I mean just for this friendly, if it works out well then see, not for every game herein)

MrJoeSoap

I can't understand all this Jason Gavin talk, he's mediocre at best in my eyes.

mchurl

GOC is a great talent and imo should get a run out at some stage for the Irish side in a friendly to see how he copes with the standard. IMO he has been the best player in the EL over the past two seasons and as this is an area where i feel we are quite weak at the minute, we should at least give him a shot.

blu_sonic

hes a consistant preformer, one of the most solid central defenders in the EL and can read a game really well. I think his stint at Bradford beside David Wetheral paid him dividends.

bohsman

Is there a full squad of 16 or so Irish players all playing first team football in the premiership? There certainly havent been over the years.

And again with SWPhillips, he could have been one of the first players in the WC squad if he hadnt decided to take the money and sit on the bench.

We wont have to discuss it much longer anyway if G14 get their way.

Jivin Turkey

blu_sonic wrote:

see all the lads you mentioned look at all the brian kerr video tapes and we can see what they do in the green, why waste a friendly on players who we have seen international in ann out why not start georgie, its a friendly excuse me if i've made the mistake in thinking you try new things in them.

How many times have O’Brien, Dunne or O’Shea played together at centre half? I think you could count them on one hand.

Ireland have two more games before the real games begin (away to Germany!). Then Staunton will have had a total of three games in charge. I would rather he knows which players he will start that day and where on the pitch, than blooding a player who will be 27 then “to see what he can do”. Even if GOC or JG were incredible in the friendly, would that justify a starting berth in Stuttgart? Definitely not in my book anyway.

blu_sonic wrote:

Jason Gavin is being mentioned in EPL circles will he be as bad as you say if he's starting for reading next season? You are one of the main anti EL posters in here I think its just ill feeling towards the league on your part, I might be wrong I have been before if I am I'm genuinly sorry.

I don’t care where JG plays to be honest, he has to step up huge amounts before he is considered above Dunne and O’Shea, who are both younger and better than him, and also O’Brien.

I’m not anti EL or any of the domestic leagues. I see Irish football in the flesh every week. The difference in standard between some of the EL and some of the LSL is not huge at all, particularly when you factor in that some of the EL are professional. Take the results between some of the sides, that EL fans are so quick to point out in comparing their league to others.

But if I called for an LSL player to be brought into the Ireland set up I would be the first to punch myself in the face.

blu_sonic wrote:

But really what is there to loose in a friendly, O'Callaghan definite starter IMO.

I thought you meant a competitive game. Perhaps GOC should be in the squad for the friendly, and perhaps he should play. But I don’t think it’s a travesty that he has been left out at the expense of some of the yougner players.

gimmick

ome of the EL and some of the LSL is not huge at all

I would dispute that. I would go to Cobh Ramblers a fair bit, and they have brought in alot of MSL players over the years, and it is very very rare that a guy makes the step up. Normally, he just looks totally out of his league.

Prime example of this, was a guy called David Welch signing for Cork City from St Marys, in the MSL. He had scored 30+ for the previous 3-4 seasons as a teenager playing MSL, came to City, and couldnt hack it at all. He then signed for MSL side Everton, and is scoring for fun again. The difference between the LSL/MSL etc and the eL is huge. Possibly as big a step up as it is from eL to EPL.

blu_sonic

Shamrock Rovers 6-1 Crumlin UTD

yeah real close the EL/LSL gap

Kingp35

blu_sonic wrote:

Shamrock Rovers 6-1 Crumlin UTD

yeah real close the EL/LSL gap

To be fair though you do usually get LSL teams winning games against EL opposition in the FAI Cup.

gimmick

^ When was the last time a LSL/MSL team beat an eL team in the FAI Cup? Im trying, but cant think of any in recent years, though am totally open to correction.

blu_sonic

Kingp35 wrote:

To be fair though you do usually get LSL teams winning games against EL opposition in the FAI Cup.

not in my memory, EL1 beats ELP sometimes, but I can't remember an LSL/MSL doing either an EL1/ELP although the lower teams in EL1 aren't too far removed from LSL/MSL (kerry were going to replace someone can't remember who now, was it mons?)

Kingp35

blu_sonic wrote:

not in my memory, EL1 beats ELP sometimes, but I can't remember an LSL/MSL doing either an EL1/ELP although the lower teams in EL1 aren't too far removed from LSL/MSL (kerry were going to replace someone can't remember who now, was it mons?)

Hold my hand up if im wrong bt I thought a few non league teams won matches in recent years. Maybe im going mad

Jivin Turkey

gimmick wrote:

^ When was the last time a LSL/MSL team beat an eL team in the FAI Cup? Im trying, but cant think of any in recent years, though am totally open to correction.

blu_sonic wrote:

not in my memory, EL1 beats ELP sometimes, but I can't remember an LSL/MSL doing either an EL1/ELP although the lower teams in EL1 aren't too far removed from LSL/MSL (kerry were going to replace someone can't remember who now, was it mons?)

I can't remember myself the last time a Premier League club was beaten but even last year there were a number of occassions where LSL/MSL more than gave a good account of themselves.

Wayside beat Cobh (whom came third in EL1 last year), suprised you don't remember that one Gimmick , and it then took Bohs a reply to knock Wayside out.

Bray only beat Avondale and Cherry Orchard 1-0.

And it took Sligo (whom were promoted from EL1) extra time in the reply to beat Malahide.

Bohs, Bray and Sligo are all now Premier League clubs. That would indicate to me that there is not a huge gap as suggested between some of the clubs.

Töpher

Does that mean Man City are not as good as Oldham? Or Liverpool not as good as Burnley? Or can they be put down to once off games (in a lesser competition, with non-full strength top sides), where-as the above cannot?

I know you weren't comparing the leagues there, just pointing out that in cup cometitions things like that happen - but it doesn't make the "lesser" side suddenly alot closer to the "better" side because of that game.

blu_sonic

did burton bring Man U to a reply? (cloughs team) and didn't that happen the previous fa cup too?

Jivin Turkey

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Does that mean Man City are not as good as Oldham? Or Liverpool not as good as Burnley? Or can they be put down to once off games (in a lesser competition, with non-full strength top sides), where-as the above cannot?

I know you weren't comparing the leagues there, just pointing out that in cup cometitions things like that happen - but it doesn't make the "lesser" side suddenly alot closer to the "better" side because of that game.

blu_sonic wrote:

did burton bring Man U to a reply? (cloughs team) and didn't that happen the previous fa cup too?

Yes and yes. I agree.

But this was my original point. EL fans always use their results in "once off games" in cup competitions to gauge the quality in the league against others. Now that it is turned around on them they are refusing to take it as a point.

I mean I've seen it mentioned so much that I know "the EL is on a par with the Swedish league because such and such beat the Swedish champions" and "that it is as good as the Scottish league because such and such beat Hearts".

We are going OT here and I don't want to bring it into a debate about the quality of the EL, but you can't have it both ways.

So to get back on point, personally I don't think George O'Callaghan would be good enough for a regular place in the Irish team, despite most EL fans insisting he would be. His situation is hugely different to that of Doyle or Hoolihan, in that, he is too old and will not develop much more as a footballer, where as the other two are younger, fresher, hungrier and have lots of yet untapped potential. That said both still have a lot to prove IMO.

I would love to see him get a proper chance as I would either be proved right or wrong, and in both cases I would be a winner. I don't however think he, or any EL players to my knowledge, at the minute, have what it takes to hold down a regular place in the Irish team.

Kingp35

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I don't however think he, or any EL players to my knowledge, at the minute, have what it takes to hold down a regular place in the Irish team.

Yeah I agree with this, none of them are good enough for the first team or even the bench imo but I do think that Gamble and O Callaghan merit a place in the squad because we are so light on players for centre midfield. I dont think Byrne should be in there, he isnt good enough.

applehunter

Jivin Turkey wrote:

So to get back on point, personally I don't think George O'Callaghan would be good enough for a regular place in the Irish team, despite most EL fans insisting he would be. His situation is hugely different to that of Doyle or Hoolihan, in that, he is too old and will not develop much more as a footballer, where as the other two are younger, fresher, hungrier and have lots of yet untapped potential. That said both still have a lot to prove IMO.

I can't agree with this. When George came back from Port Vale he was playing up front with John O'Flynn, but his performance were very inconsistent and he himself would probably say that he wasn't doing things right away from soccer. But since he has become a midfield player and concentrated on his game he had really improved his all round game. OK sometimes he takes too much out of the ball, but thats probably what makes him so popular. In European games he is really has excelled. Listen to quotes after games and the opposition coaches were always commenting on "the Number 10 is obviously a danger". I don't see a Classic No. 10 in the Ireland squad at the moment. He can do things other players can't and thats why I think he deserves a chance in the "squad".

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I would love to see him get a proper chance as I would either be proved right or wrong, and in both cases I would be a winner. I don't however think he, or any EL players to my knowledge, at the minute, have what it takes to hold down a regular place in the Irish team.

Agreed

blu_sonic

interesing i don't recall us ever stating that the el is on par because of x-result, I recall us stating we have a team making it to the 2nd round of the EL qualifiers year in/year out as our guage. But the EL/EPL/EPC/EP1 etc. debate. you think the EL players aren't good enough we do, we can't change you you certainly won't change us, now lets shake hands and hope the EL surprize all of us by turning out a great preformance.

PS.I think the post where you said "even if the El players p,ay well they don't deserve jack very unfair

John_C

Jivin Turkey wrote:

But this was my original point. EL fans always use their results in "once off games" in cup competitions to gauge the quality in the league against others. Now that it is turned around on them they are refusing to take it as a point.

I mean I've seen it mentioned so much that I know "the EL is on a par with the Swedish league because such and such beat the Swedish champions" and "that it is as good as the Scottish league because such and such beat Hearts".

The key difference here is that there are very few games between irish and sweedish or scottish teams so the examples are few and far between out of necessity. That's different from picking a particular cup result because there are five or ten such games every year so quoting the game that suits your argument is definately cherrypicking.

Töpher

The only comparisons the EL has to other leagues is in cup competitions, althouugh usually a two legged affair. As with accross the water, it shows what a team can be capable of, but isn't an accurate medium/long-term gauge. I think the main reason results like that would be used as examples is because it may be the only way to explain to someone who maintains the league is "shíte" without ever watching a game what some of the teams are capable of. Neither here nor there tho!

Like to see Georgie get a run ( :eek: ), but not sure about holding a place - probably not!

Jivin Turkey

applehunter wrote:

OK sometimes he takes too much out of the ball, but thats probably what makes him so popular. In European games he is really has excelled. Listen to quotes after games and the opposition coaches were always commenting on "the Number 10 is obviously a danger". I don't see a Classic No. 10 in the Ireland squad at the moment. He can do things other players can't and thats why I think he deserves a chance in the "squad".

I'll ask you one thing. Who is the currnet number ten for Ireland? Is he not a classic number ten who can do things that others can't, regularly takes too much out of the ball, sometimes brilliant, sometimes tragic?

Then what about Duff? And I would even argue that Liam Miller could fit the bill as this classic number ten (when he is in the mood). Then there is also Aiden McGeady who offers this type of skill, and has far more potential than GOC in that role. So it would seem to me that GOC is well down the pecking order to play the role that you think he is the only one capable of.

blu_sonic wrote:

interesing i don't recall us ever stating that the el is on par because of x-result, I recall us stating we have a team making it to the 2nd round of the EL qualifiers year in/year out as our guage. But the EL/EPL/EPC/EP1 etc. debate. you think the EL players aren't good enough we do, we can't change you you certainly won't change us, now lets shake hands and hope the EL surprize all of us by turning out a great preformance.

If I bothered searching, or if this thread was a debate on the quality of the EL I could find it, aplenty, but alas it's not a thread about that.

blu_sonic wrote:

PS.I think the post where you said "even if the El players p,ay well they don't deserve jack very unfair

Where did I say this?

John_C wrote:

The key difference here is that there are very few games between irish and sweedish or scottish teams so the examples are few and far between out of necessity. That's different from picking a particular cup result because there are five or ten such games every year so quoting the game that suits your argument is definately cherrypicking.

I didn't cherry pick one game to suit me, I in fact quoted seven games where non-league teams gave a good account of themselves against league opposition in last years cup. So get your facts right.

And seven out of five to ten games would be a rather large proportion of games in my eyes, no?

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Like to see Georgie get a run ( :eek: ), but not sure about holding a place - probably not!

As would I. I don't think he is good enough but seeing as there are so many that think he definitely is perhaps I am missing something?

He is definitely not good enough to hold a place in the team, and not the squad either IMO, and that is my only reservation, if he gets brought in plays a friendly or two, gets frozen out for not being good enough we will then get the sob story calls from his fans that he was never given a chance.

Töpher

If a players gets the chance and doesn't take it there can be no complaints. Then again, some people may say Jayo got a chance in '04 but it was only 30 seconds. If a player gets the guts of a half to prove their metal and they don't take it, then noone can really complain.

A friendly's always gonna be the best place to take a Gamble ( ) and see how it works out!

Iceman78

blu_sonic wrote:

Shamrock Rovers 6-1 Crumlin UTD

yeah real close the EL/LSL gap

Heard Crumlin had their 2nd team playing in this game. Were rovers not beaten easily by james gate in pre season who are not even in the top division in LSL.

Töpher

They may well have been, but to be fair to Rovers (something I usually amn't )alot of their players were about 18 at the time (possibly still are), after they released virtually their entire squad.

The LSL plays a autumn -> summer league AFAIK, so there would have been some fitness discrepanices there too. But, to again point accross the water, teams like Aston Villa loing to the likes of Wycombe in preseason isn't rare.

gimmick

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I mean I've seen it mentioned so much that I know "the EL is on a par with the Swedish league because such and such beat the Swedish champions"

I just want to point out something here.

For the last 2 seasons, Cork City have knocked the eventual Swedish champions out of European competition.

Inter Toto 2004 Cork City 4 - 1 Malmo (agg)
UEFA Cup 2005 Cork City 1 - 1 Djurgardens (agg, City on away goals)

Anyone who saw the latter will know that City totally outclassed thhe Swedes, and should have won the match comfortably.

So, IMO, there is evy reason to say that some eL teams are at least as good as top Swedish sides.

Back to topic...... Georgie For IRELAND!

MrJoeSoap

gimmick wrote:

Anyone who saw the latter will know that City totally outclassed thhe Swedes, and should have won the match comfortably.

Did win it comfortably.

Jivin Turkey

gimmick wrote:

I just want to point out something here.

For the last 2 seasons, Cork City have knocked the eventual Swedish champions out of European competition.

Inter Toto 2004 Cork City 4 - 1 Malmo (agg)
UEFA Cup 2005 Cork City 1 - 1 Djurgardens (agg, City on away goals)

Anyone who saw the latter will know that City totally outclassed thhe Swedes, and should have won the match comfortably.

So, IMO, there is evy reason to say that some eL teams are at least as good as top Swedish sides.

I'm not disputing this at all. And that's my point, you use this as a gauge to measure the leagues, yet insist there is a huge difference between LSL/MSL and the EL despite results to indicate otherwise.

You can't have it both ways, using one when it is in your favour and ignoring the other when against you. But please let that be the end of the debate on the quality of the EL vs other leagues.

Slash/ED

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I'm not disputing this at all. And that's my point, you use this as a gauge to measure the leagues, yet insist there is a huge difference between LSL/MSL and the EL despite results to indicate otherwise.

You can't have it both ways, using one when it is in your favour and ignoring the other when against you. But please let that be the end of the debate on the quality of the EL vs other leagues.

That's a pretty stupid argument. Find me an example wherew LSL sides have consistently outclassed el sides and you'll have something approaching a half decent point. Cork City did it four times in four attempts, and you have to take the seriousness of the competition into account. Not to mention Jason Byrne turning down a big money move to the Swedish champions.

Jivin Turkey

Slash/ED wrote:

That's a pretty stupid argument. Find me an example wherew LSL sides have consistently outclassed el sides and you'll have something approaching a half decent point. Cork City did it four times in four attempts, and you have to take the seriousness of the competition into account. Not to mention Jason Byrne turning down a big money move to the Swedish champions.

Again we have a poster wanting to take it down the EL vs the rest of the world debate. Get over it.

I never said the EL and LSL were on a par, just not a "huge" difference between some of the teams. Not the Shelbournes and Corks of this world, in general lower Premier or higher Division 1 clubs. I have also accepted that the standard between say Sweden and the EL are not all that dissimilar.

But since when does drawing home and away with Djungardens constitute outclassing them? When you are in the mind of a delusional EL fan perhaps? Byrne's rejection of a move to Sweden was down to much more reasons than quality of football I would imagine. I would wager that the quality was not even one of the pertinent reasons for his rejection.

But I stress again we are talking about EL players being good enough for the Irish side. I'm not going to rise to any more EL vs everyone else crap because I've done so too much already.

MrJoeSoap

Jivin Turkey wrote:

But since when does drawing home and away with Djungardens constitute outclassing them?

Did you watch the matches no?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

When you are in the mind of a delusional EL fan perhaps?

Now we're trolling.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Byrne's rejection of a move to Sweden was down to much more reasons than quality of football I would imagine. I would wager that the quality was not even one of the pertinent reasons for his rejection.

His reasons were his family:

“It was on and off but I didn’t want to go, it would have meant missing Christmas with my family."

“After Christmas it went on again, and I finally decided I didn’t want to go. It went on for so long. I had plenty of time to think it over. In the end I talked to me family and wife about it and decided this is where I wanted to be.”

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Did you watch the matches no?

I didn't see them no. But I fail to see how a team can outclass another side for two games and fail to beat them at least once.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Now we're trolling.

Maybe, maye not. IMO one would be dilusional to think a 1-1 prgression over two legs on away goals was "outclassing" another team.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

His reasons were his family:

“It was on and off but I didn’t want to go, it would have meant missing Christmas with my family."

“After Christmas it went on again, and I finally decided I didn’t want to go. It went on for so long. I had plenty of time to think it over. In the end I talked to me family and wife about it and decided this is where I wanted to be.”

Not surprising. It was nothing to do with quality of the league. Just like this thread.

MrJoeSoap

Well the fact that you didn't watch the match(es) and yet you can comment on it says a lot about your position. Cork were unbelievable in the second leg, and dominated like you would not believe. The ball rarely left the Djurgardens half, despite them being the side who needed the goal.

http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3259659&postcount=24
http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3260194&postcount=38
http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3261383&postcount=45
http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3261489&postcount=48

Did you by any chance see the Man City vs Bolton game at the City of Manchester this season? Of course one team can dominate and not get a result.

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well the fact that you didn't watch the match(es) and yet you can comment on it says a lot about your position.

Of course one team can dominate and not get a result.

Of course a team can dominate a match and still not get a result. But a team that "outclasses" another side scores goals. That is the difference between dominating a game and outclassing someone. To be honest when I see "dominated" my first instinct is that they were all over them but...

Outclassing I think 3,4,5 nil.

On the same note, how can Slash/ED say that the non-league teams didn't dominate the Eircom teams, did he see those games?

But I stress again, we are going OT and round in circles. I don't think we even have conflicting points of view. I never said the LSL was on a par with the EL or that the EL is miles behind any other league.

Are we not talking about players good enough for Ireland?

MrJoeSoap

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Are we not talking about players good enough for Ireland?

Yes.

Do you attend/watch many eL games?

applehunter

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I'll ask you one thing. Who is the currnet number ten for Ireland? Is he not a classic number ten who can do things that others can't, regularly takes too much out of the ball, sometimes brilliant, sometimes tragic?

Then what about Duff? And I would even argue that Liam Miller could fit the bill as this classic number ten (when he is in the mood). Then there is also Aiden McGeady who offers this type of skill, and has far more potential than GOC in that role. So it would seem to me that GOC is well down the pecking order to play the role that you think he is the only one capable of.

I would call Robbie Keane a classic centre forward at this stage after the way he has started getting tap-ins.

Damien Duff is best out on the wings.

Of course a player like George might not fit into Ireland's style of play at all, but I think he would enjoy the time on the ball he would get at that level.

I think Miller is a good player but he's not like George, and McGeady hasnt established a position yet.

blu_sonic

turkey you've some cheek saying WE are making this EL v Everyone else. You are the one throwing fuel on the fire.

you refuse to accept our point of view that some EL players deserve a call up, its our openion you needn't agree but you have to accept it.

You are trolling around with phrases like "When you are in the mind of a delusional EL fan perhaps?" you'd be up in arms if we were saying "those west brit EPL fans are up in arms".

you form openions on players and teams that you either haven't seen or have seen very little of. Your commenting on games that you never saw as i'm sure you well know a score line tells very little of the match you could argue the Liverpool FA cup and CL finals weren't reflected by the scorelines. But its neither here or there.

final point on topic: Noone is saying Georgie should be in the WC squad or the EC squad just viewed in a friendy game (given 20-30 mins). IMO your more worried of him being good so you'll have to re-evaluate your view of the EL