An unholy (unofficial) alliance

flogen

Interesting quote over on The Register from Peter Moore who has claimed that you will be able to get a 360 and a Wii for the price of a high-end PS3:

Microsoft has claimed Nintendo's Wii console will cost $200 when its ships. Well, sort of. In a dig at Sony, Microsoft VP Peter Moore said consumers will be able to buy an Xbox 360 and a Wii for the price of a $599 PlayStation 3, according to Reuters.

Since an Xbox 360 costs around $399, that leaves just $200 for the Nintendo machine. Nintendo has said in the past that the Wii won't sport the very latest technology - it's pitching the product at much at less-demanding casual gamers as hardcore players - so it's entirely possible the company will pitch the price low.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/11/ms_forecasts_200_dollar_wii/

A $200 Wii (which would probably mean a E200 Wii) would be a great price point, but TheReg doesn't jump to the assumption that the 360 will drop in price before the ps3 launches, given that it will be a year after the original launch that's quite possible.

Anyway, I think this is an interesting quote, especially this: "People will always gravitate toward a competitively priced product [which] I believe Wii will be."; it says to me that MS realise their best bet is to leave Ninty out of their sights and go for their real challenger, Sony. Not to the extent where they'll actually team up with anything, but I think MS would be happier to work with Ninty (or more not work against them) if it meant they could chip away at the PS market, as Nintendo have taken themselves out of competition with sony and MS surely they realise that a well priced Wii and 360 will kick the ass of a high priced ps3 in the Christmas market... who knows, they might even allow Rare to do some work for Nintendo as previously suggested.
I'd say MS will do anything in this gen to top Sony, even if it means putting Halo 3 on the Wii

kaimera

Interesting to say the least. I do agree with the idea that MS would[will] do whatever it takes to beat Sony this time round and this seems like a nice medium for them to do so.

tho halo3 on teh Wii...no.

flogen

kaimera wrote:

tho halo3 on teh Wii...no.

OK then, just Halo 1 and 2

Seriously though, I think Rare games on the DS is only a matter of time, I'd doubt that MS would let them produce for the Wii though; that said they may not be completely against the idea of allowing Conker, PD and Goldeneye on the VC (that is if it's up to MS/Rare and Nintendo)

hairball

just read a piece on gamespot..rare are developing a game for the DS...how prophetic flogen

flogen

hairball wrote:

just read a piece on gamespot..rare are developing a game for the DS...how prophetic flogen

Call me Oracle

Seriously though, I read somewhere (may have been Edge, or Eurogamer) ages ago that Rare devs had been sent DS devkits but were told to finish work on PDZ and Kameo before they were allowed to work on them (that's how old the article was); even though ms are rumoured to be working on a handheld for around 2008/2009, they'd have no problem making handheld games for other consoles at this point as it won't impact on anything they do in 2 or 3 years time... sure they released Age of Empires on PS2 in Nov. 2001 even though they were set to enter the console market just 4 months later in Europe! Of course, at this point they'd rather line the pockets of Nintendo over Sony.

skywalker

Dont forget the core xbox costs €300, so in theory that could mean a €300 wii aswell. I dont think that tells us anything pricewise.

Im delighted hes pointing out though that both machines can be bought for the price of a ps3. Was only talking with a mate the other day about how funny it would be to see a joint advertising campaign from them both putting across that very message.

Ciaran500

I doubt Nintendo would be willing to price them the Wii similar to the core 360 as any Joe Bloggs looking at Wii and 360 games will dismiss the Wii.

€200-€250 price point much more likely.

honru

I'd be interested in hearing what people think of the forthcoming battle between Sony, Microsoft, and the big N? Who d'ya think'll come out on top and why?

I didn't think a €500+ price tag on the PS3 was going to be that big of a deal for Sony to overcome, but other people seem to think otherwise.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64646

SCEI president Ken Kutaragi has declared it will be up to us gamers to decide whether the PS3 is worth the asking price - as we did when the original PlayStation was released.

In an interview with the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Kutaragi said: "Price setting is always a headache for us. No game machines are comparable to the PS3, which is neither a genuine game console, home electronics [product] nor a personal computer. It is a new kind of product."

The PS3 is set to launch globally this November, priced at $499 / €499 for the 20GB version or $599 / €599 for the 60GB model.
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According to Kutaragi, it will be "consumers who decide whether it's expensive or cheap. If a product offers charm, then buyers will be convinced."

Kutaragi then referred to the original PlayStation, which launched in December 1994 with a price tag of ¥39,800 (€280).

"With Nintendo's 16-bit machine selling for about ¥12,000 (€85) at that time, the media criticised us for priciness - but it became an explosive hit."

the_syco

Kutaragi then referred to the original PlayStation, which launched in December 1994 with a price tag of ¥39,800 (€280).

"With Nintendo's 16-bit machine selling for about ¥12,000 (€85) at that time, the media criticised us for priciness - but it became an explosive hit."

Nice return blow on the MS+Ninty combo.

flogen

skywalker wrote:

Dont forget the core xbox costs €300, so in theory that could mean a €300 wii aswell. I dont think that tells us anything pricewise.

Im delighted hes pointing out though that both machines can be bought for the price of a ps3. Was only talking with a mate the other day about how funny it would be to see a joint advertising campaign from them both putting across that very message.

I think Ninty will happily point out, while not in an advertising campaign, that their machine is (probably) going to sell at half the price of the basic PS3 model, so you could get two for the price of one there... I think MS will drop the price of the xbox by between 20 and 50 euro before the PS3 launch too, so similar could apply there too.

I don't think the PS3 will be affected by its price point in the long term, and the price is certain to become competitive after a while but the way I'm looking at it Sony are lining themselves up for a very poor christmas; parents looking to buy something substantial for their kids will see a well priced Wii that looks like a lot of fun, people looking for more visually appealing console games (with a decent selection of games) will see the xbox core (and even the full system) both of which will come well under the ps3 price range.

Let's say someone buys a PS3 for their kid for christmas, and assume they go for the lower end model (because kids won't be bothered with no HDMI, card reader or WiFi); they'll spend 500 on hardware, going by 360 prices two games will cost 130-140, and maybe 40-50 on a second controller and that's just a basic set up to ensure that the kids have something to play on christmas morning. So you're looking at 650 to 700 BASIC. The Wii on the other hand (while it's all speculation) will probably sell for 250 and that's a pessimistic estimate IMO. Nintendo have said they'd be trying to keep software costs down (http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/03/30/nintendo_game_prices/); let's say two for 110; and a controller for 40-50 (although this could be more, from what the media have been saying this is what will cost Nintendo the most)... you're looking at the same basic set up for 410; you'd have room for another game (and a preowned gc one too ) from your 500.

Anyway; back to my point; I think Sony, unless they pull something really amazing out of the bag (and they'd need a big, big hitter like GTA which won't happen), I think they'll be destroyed this Christmas by a better established MS and a better priced Ninty; after the Christmas season, who knows...?

evad_lhorg

flogen wrote:

OK then, just Halo 1 and 2

Seriously though, I think Rare games on the DS is only a matter of time, I'd doubt that MS would let them produce for the Wii though; that said they may not be completely against the idea of allowing Conker, PD and Goldeneye on the VC (that is if it's up to MS/Rare and Nintendo)

eh rare are developing diddy kong racing.

flogen

evad_lhorg wrote:

eh rare are developing diddy kong racing.

eh yeah... only saw that after the post, as you can see...

Laguna

Well, on launch day (if mooted launch titles are to be believed) for the best part of just under €400, I can walk home with my new Nintendo Wii, Metroid, Zelda and Mario. I just think this price strategy by Sony is arrogance, I mean if that's the price of the console, I dread to think what they'll want for games and peripherals (especially what they deem to be triple-A titles).

I think the PS3 will finish Sony off to be honest, they entered the market in 1994 with the great Playstation (and subsequent PS2) which brought the gaming market out of the relative minority of youngsters and teens and into relative mainstream. With these new prices, they're starting to eliminate the very consumer base that play games. Gaming is becoming (not that it's been cheap for a long time) a very, very expensive pastime and I for one will not pay exorbitant prices for the pleasure of gaming, I'd rather go without; thankfully I won't have to, I'll have a Wii! (:D).

honru

According to Kutaragi, it will be "consumers who decide whether it's expensive or cheap. If a product offers charm, then buyers will be convinced."

I'm surprised noone found that funny.

CiDeRmAn

Hmmm, could it be that Sony are about to discover that you can't please all of the people all of the time, same lessons already learned by Atari in the 80s and Nintendo in the 90s?
A certain complacency couples with the belief that folk will buy the brand and to hell with the cost?

I fail to see what, exactly, Sony have to offer that MS don't already, aside from a little better graphics.
I will buy one, even at €600 or whatever the eventual cost will be but not at launch, not this time.
I can't justify it, with games as well could wind up spending close to a grand and thats silly money.
Maybe 12 months into its existence, when its price has dropped.

Nope my 360 will handle my traditional gaming needs into the future and my Wii will be the glorious chapel of innovation I can dazzle my friends with.
I really think that Ninty can actually put themselves back on the mainstream map this time, despite the name!
I will be definitely be sticking my name down for one of those at its launch, Metroid Prime 3, won't bother me that the new Killzone or Halo 3 is out elsewhere, Metroid Prime 3, with that controller, Yum Yum!

savemejebus

I doubt the price will be an issue for the ps3 this christmas. Think how expensivethe original ps2 seemed at launch and also remember that in the same way people could justify the ps2 price to themselves by saying "but it's a DVD player too", they will be able to say "but it's one of the cheapest blu ray dvd players around".

Also don't underestimate the "dad" factor, that uncanny willingness to go nuts and buy the "supposedly" latest and greatest for the kids so that you can mess with it yourself AND be the greatest dad evar

KdjaCL

savemejebus wrote:

Also don't underestimate the "dad" factor, that uncanny willingness to go nuts and buy the "supposedly" latest and greatest for the kids so that you can mess with it yourself AND be the greatest dad evar

Indeed, showed the boy the Wii trailer yesterday and told him, that 7 months of being good will get him one at xmas.


Best dad ever?


kdjac

Crucifix

Does anyone know if they're selling the PS3 at a loss (ala microsoft with the 360)?

ShiverinEskimo

savemejebus wrote:

Also don't underestimate the "dad" factor, that uncanny willingness to go nuts and buy the "supposedly" latest and greatest for the kids so that you can mess with it yourself AND be the greatest dad evar

Totally agree. There's that much money floating around these days that daddy and mammy will put cost aside when it comes to pleasing their kids. A cousin just made in the region of 450/500 quid on their confirmation day :eek: Judging by the amount of range rover leaving and picking kids up from school these days Sony are going to attack the market with a high price, tell the kids its the best games console ever, tell the dads its the best living room HD-DVD player ever and thell the mammy it'll keep the kids locked up indoors away from the mob of peadophiles outdoors...

Vegeta

KdjaC wrote:

Indeed, showed the boy the Wii trailer yesterday and told him, that 7 months of being good will get him one at xmas.


Best dad ever?


kdjac

KDjac you're a daddy, respect my friend ultimate respect. I'm sure your kid will have to fight you for a go of the Wii, it'll be like "Dad come on, its my turn you've been playing for 2 days straight. I want a go of Super Smash Bros."

flogen

savemejebus wrote:

I doubt the price will be an issue for the ps3 this christmas. Think how expensivethe original ps2 seemed at launch and also remember that in the same way people could justify the ps2 price to themselves by saying "but it's a DVD player too", they will be able to say "but it's one of the cheapest blu ray dvd players around".

Also don't underestimate the "dad" factor, that uncanny willingness to go nuts and buy the "supposedly" latest and greatest for the kids so that you can mess with it yourself AND be the greatest dad evar

Blu Ray playback will not be an issue this Christmas, in fact I think that the next gen of movie formats won't come into the mix for at least another year, maybe longer... in Ireland, HDTV take up is growing but is still low, on the other hand most people who keep on top of things (and even those who don't) have already switched their collection to DVD and won't see the point in switching again (nor will they be able to happily pay an extra whatever for a film on HD/BR than they can get it for on DVD). Most people switched to DVD when the hardware dropped in price, of course Ps2 was a great tool for helping the switch earlier, but DVD didn't face the same challenge that BR faces with HDDVD so those thinking of making the leap will be unsure which side to take.
Where a fair amount of people bought a ps2 as a DVD player and games console, no where near as many will do the same this time around... not until next christmas anyway.
Anyway; I think price will be an issue, and I think Sony are being a bit complacent... it won't end them, in fact I still think they'll come out on top in the end but I think they've missed this one... there will be parents willing to spend the best part of a grand on their kids for christmas, but I don't know many of them.

On the side, I think the leaderboard for this gen will be Sony on top with MS a closer second; but at the same time nintendo are putting themselves in an excellent situation with pricing; people who buy MS aren't generally likely to splash out on Sony any time soon due to the price, and vice versa but the Wii will be cheap enough so that both sides will make it their first choice as a second console, that could easily put them in second place, and who knows, with enough of the new market they claim they'll attract, they could be a contender for first!

KdjaC wrote:

Indeed, showed the boy the Wii trailer yesterday and told him, that 7 months of being good will get him one at xmas.


Best dad ever?


kdjac

Bastard... can you adopt me? I'm low maintenance and a good worker around the house?

skywalker

KdjaC wrote:

Indeed, showed the boy the Wii trailer yesterday and told him, that 7 months of being good will get him one at xmas.


Best dad ever?


kdjac

HA! fantastic.

CiDeRmAn

My wife detests videogames, actually hates the sight of them in the house, when I boot up the 360, 'Cube or PS2 she leaves the room, yet I reckon the Wii will be the only console that will offer her a way into this freakishly addictive past time, breaking down the barrier that a traditional game controller erects, it's fine for those of us who grew up with joysticks, mice and joypads but for many they are incromprehensible, the grammar of the modern game, double jumps, how to steer a car with a thumbstick, the things we gamers take as given, are lost to the non-gamer, the Wii controller, like the stylus on the DS breaks with these conventions and permits a far more natural, normal interface between our world and that living inside the telly box thingy.
Therefore the buzz at Christmas may well be from the same folk who bought Nintendogs in their droves as they are driven to see whats next.

Toilet trainig my son at the mo, Wii seems to be in both my gaming and family life.
The better half wants to get him a Vtech Smile at Christmas but I an hoping that Ninty will have that covered with some software for him.

But if I'm playing Metroid Prime 3 he can feck off, I have a GB color he can fiddle with til I'm finished!

But more to the point, what is it about the PS3 that will make folk buy it, I mean, I am a fan of gadgets and the latest kit but Blu-ray holds no fascination for me, it's not got the same draw as DVD playback did, and the price, is it really going to sell in the sort of huge numbers sony are expecting? Where are the killer apps? 360 has kinda beaten them to the line on this one, HD gaming and seamless online modes, where do Sony see themselves excelling? Graphically they may have the edge but will it be so noticable?

honru

Just had a critical thought on the topic.

When you think back to the launches of the original Playstation and the PS2, the only "next generation" competitor, on both occasions, was Sega. While Sony managed to captivate the middle-aged male market to become the leader of the pack, Sega was quickly left in the dust with its hardcore fanbase.

And while Sega did a good job not to make the same mistake twice with the Dreamcast, the "hardcore" label stuck. People were just too interested in Playstation games. The PS2 also launched with a DVD player, which I truely believe played a huge part in its success in the early noughties.

But now the forthcoming PS3 launch will be a different scenario. For the first time, a Sony console is launching alongside one by Nintendo, while Microsoft have had the 360 out for months. This is not going to as easy as the last two launches. And will Blu-ray catch on to the same level that DVD did? I don't think so.

I'd say the general public will stick to the current consoles for another year, but late 2007 will be the real decider in who's going to come out on top in the next-generation battle. I didn't think so before E3, but Microsoft certainly have a chance of surpassing Sony in the video game market, at least in the US and Europe.

As for Nintendo, if they market the Wii well, I can definetly see them crawl their way back to the forefront of gaming. If they manage to crack the fickle female market, no doubt that will help immensely.

This is going to be very interesting indeed.

chamlis

It seems, at least to me, that everyone here is at least thinking about getting a wii, whatever about the other two. That seems like a result for Ninty right there.

As regards Blu-Ray, my money is on HD-DVD for various reasons. So sorry Sony.

Laguna

My money on the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war is on DVD to be honest!, I don't think enough people will see the benefits for another couple of years to shell out money for the films and TV series they already quite happily own (and can purchase cheaply through the like of www.play.com) on a new format. The introduction of a new format for video/film is always take the piss time anyway, I can see Sony smacking their lips at selling films on Blu-Ray for €40-50, just look at the prices of their filthy UMD's.. I endeavour to tell Sony to "Go **** yourselves for three years before I consider your new format". I'm with DVD for the near future.

ShiverinEskimo

To be honest anyone with a HDTV is going to want the new formats to go with it.
Look at the 360 - i reckon sales in HDTV have risen because of its release and the same will follow onto HD-DVDs and Blu Ray players. Tons of people out there want the best available and fair enough while it will be a select market at the start with the high prices they will be lapped up like any new technology. Look at the ridiculous price of 360 games - 80 quid - and they are selling..

hairball

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

To be honest anyone with a HDTV is going to want the new formats to go with it.
Look at the 360 - i reckon sales in HDTV have risen because of its release and the same will follow onto HD-DVDs and Blu Ray players. Tons of people out there want the best available and fair enough while it will be a select market at the start with the high prices they will be lapped up like any new technology. Look at the ridiculous price of 360 games - 80 quid - and they are selling..

agreed.. ido think however that ninty are gonna shift a lot of Wii units regardless of what happens with the other..their strategy of taking a sidestep out of the sony/ microsoft arms race is looking like it's gonna pay off big time
i applaud

GrumPy

Although the thread has gone a little off topic, I do agree with alot of points people have made. I still think sony will will the war (come on, every kid in ireland has a ps, or ps2 ffs) but the fact this is the first time sony have launched a console alongside some real competition in the form of NIN and MS, it's gonna be a hard fought battle. As a gamer myself, I intend to buy each system (eventually) but the future seems the brightest for nintendo and xbox tbh (in terms of games) ps3 may, and probably will come out on top however many years down the road - but as a massive gamer myself, I really look forward to what MS have next to impress me with (i have a 360) and cant wait to get my hands on my wii. Also, assuming the majority of Irish gamers (especially casual gamers) bought there ps2 for the following reasons:

brand name

gta

dvd playback

Sony have only one gun left to fire in my opinion, and thats the badge.
Blu-ray will prolly never take off (at least for another 2-3years me thinks)
And sony aint got there "killer app" in the from of gta anymore, as it will be available on the €400 360, rather thatn the €600 ps3. Who knows what will happen, we will all have to wait and see, and I for one, can wait to see all the great new games, and ideas coming our way.

Retr0gamer

I don't doubt that Sony will probably come out on top again unless they make a huge mistake somewhere. However I'd put money on them losing a lot o ground to MS and Nintendo this time around.

sprinkles

KdjaC wrote:

Indeed, showed the boy the Wii trailer yesterday and told him, that 7 months of being good will get him one at xmas.


Best dad ever?


kdjac

And if he's good for another 7 months you might even let him have a go