Bi-sexuality,Bi-sexual and Bi - An overview

Boston

My orginal Idea behind this was to post up a sort of FAQ/Guide to sexuality and ask the various Bi-sexual, Gay and Lesbian posters to contribute. But since that would probably be insinuated at some form of insult,heres what i wrote up afew days ago. (drawn from personal experience, this forum, and numerous others).

Bi-sexuality means to be sexually and/or romantically attracted towards or involved with members of more than one sex. However, having acted on those attractions is not a prerequisite for being a Bi-sexual. A definition for a Bi-sexual as distinct from Bi-sexuality would be anybody who, by their own criteria, does feel or at the least is capable of feeling, such attractions. A Bi-sexual may have a preference for one sex over another, attracted equally, or generally find gender meaningless. Regardless, attractions tend to vary with time.

Just because someone doesn’t exhibits an attraction towards members of more then one sex, doesn’t prelude them from being bi-sexual. In the same fashion, demonstrating this behavior doesn’t automatically make you a Bi-sexual. It is important to accept that all Bi-sexuals haves their own criteria/definition for Bi-sexuality, and respect that.

You can be a Bi-sexual and have never been intimate with a member of the same/opposite sex. It’s up to you to decide if you are Bi-sexual or not, nobody knows you better then you, and absolutely nobody has the right to tell you, “what you are”. Bi-sexuality isn’t about what’s in your heads, it’s not even about what’s in your pants, it’s about how you feel, and what you would like to do.

It is very natural when coming to terms with a new reality about yourself, to be confused. For some Bi-sexuality will just an experiment or stepping stone on the way to or from homosexuality. But Bi-sexuality isn’t simply a confused phase; most Bi-sexuals are absolute and resolved in their sexuality, remaining Bi-sexual their entire life. However, Sexuality isn’t this rigid thing; it fluctuates and changes with time. The important thing is how you feel at this moment and time in your life, and just because you may feel different in the future, doesn’t make how you feel now, any less true or right. The fact that some people, ultimately, do not remain bisexual for life, does not make it any less a valid sexual orientation

Coming out of the closet and living as a Queer, is often difficult. For some claiming to be Bi-sexual though they know their not, can make the ordeal easier. There can be a sense of not wanting to alienate friends and family more then absolutely necessary, and that people can somehow understand and accept Bi-sexuality more easily then homosexuality. The reality is that coming out as Bi-sexual is not a cake walk. For some, coming out as Bi-sexual, will be the most difficult decision they’ll make in their life. Even if you have absolute faith in your orientation others often don’t. Bi-sexuals face being accused of avoiding “normal relationships” from one corner, and internalised homophobia from the other, using their bisexuality to pretend to be heterosexual at work/school/college. Some lesbians and gay men also have sex with members of the opposite sex, and see Bi-sexuality as a direct threat to how they identify themselves. These people can be particularly nasty towards Bi-sexuals. Bi-sexuality is not a denial, a cop out, or a middle ground between heterosexuality and homosexuality. It is a distinct and valid orientation.

There are people who will try and convince you that having a preference towards one gender over another, means you're truly gay or straight. Most bi-sexuals are not equally attracted to both sexes. That is not to say that what they feel for one sex is any less intense or valid as what they feel for the other, just that they have a natural predisposition towards members of one sex. It's easier to describe attractions in terms of qualities, some people are attracted to the specific qualities of men or women others find they are attracted to qualities which know no gender bounds.

A question often raised is, can Bi-sexuals be monogamous? Bi-sexuals have attractions towards both genders, that doesn’t mean they act on those attractions all of the time, or even at all. Bisexuals are no more or less capable of monogamy then anyone else. The stigma of Bi-sexuals not being capable of monogamy stems from the fact that polygamous Bi-sexual stand out in both communities, especially when moving from one relationship to another across genders lines. People see two members of the same sex in a long term monogamous relationship, they presume gay, and similarly they presume straight for two members of the opposite sex. Before I had a boyfriend people presumed I was straight, and after they presumed I was gay. A monogamous Bi-sexual is not straight or gay, their still Bi-sexual, since they still feel Bi-sexual.

Some people suggest that everybody is Bi-sexual; however there are many people who have lovers of both sexes but do not consider themselves bi-sexual. To insist that someone is Bi-sexual robs from that person their rights to self determination, and to follow their own path in life, without being subjected to cultural/sub-cultural norms.

Adios Joe.

rainbow kirby

Great post

Annasopra

For anyone who's interested ther's a group called bi-irish

http://www.outhouse.ie/groups.asp?id=3

LegacyUser

Great post.If all gay people reead this it would be fantastic.

As someone who just "came out"(to my friends and sister at least), the amount of "abuse" I`ve gotten off gay guys is unbelievable.While a lot of the time is friendly abuse so to speak, a fair few guys have been pretty blunt in their views on bi guys. It always along the lines of "oh theres no such thing as a bi guy, your gay but won`t admit it". While I don`t really mind this, when I`m in the george or dragon and am supposedly in a gay/bi/lesbian friendly place, its the last place I`d expect to be on the recieving end of hostility towards my sexuality.
Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant(and not a very eloquent one if I may add but its late and I`m studying for exams ).

azezil

Hmmm the one thought that really came to mind for me reading that was "if I say I'm a god, who are you to say I'm not!"

While I do believe one can be attracted to both sexes, I wouldn't find your agruments very convincing Joe.

Just an observation

claire h

azezil wrote:

Hmmm the one thought that really came to mind for me reading that was "if I say I'm a god, who are you to say I'm not!"

Perhaps it might be a better idea to emphasise that *all* sexuality-based labels are up to the individual...

Also, you left out the "bisexuals are clearly more kinky than other people and into group sex!" bit.

Nevyn

azezil wrote:

Hmmm the one thought that really came to mind for me reading that was "if I say I'm a god, who are you to say I'm not!"

While I do believe one can be attracted to both sexes, I wouldn't find your agruments very convincing Joe.

Just an observation

Who said it was an arguement ? It is a statement and observations.
This is how things are for me and this is how things are seen is not
the same as setting out a premise for an arguement.

Boston

It's not an argument to try and convince you that Bi-sexuals exist. It's not an argument full stop. It's an attempt to try and convince both bi-sexuals and non bi-sexuals to respect those that identify as bi-sexual. If someone genuinely doesn't believe in Bi-sexuality, there is very little I can say to convince them otherwise. I'm more concerned with conveying the message, that just because one group of people believe a truth, doesn't mean you have too. My Idea behind this thread was to reassure those that are Bi-sexual. Once you know yourself that your sexuality is valid, that it isn't a denial or some metal illness, you become far less concerned with what the nay sayers think. Basically, this thread is aimed at bi-sexuals, not at beating people over the head with arguements untill they see the light, and to be honest, I'd be kinda disappointed if this thread took a turn that way.

claire h, by all means I'd love to read anything you could add to the above. I've found your posts on this subject very enlightening in the past, to say the least.

Hmm_Messiah

LiouVille wrote:

It's not an argument.... It's not an argument full stop........... It's an attempt to try and convince......

Isn't attempting to try and convince some one....an argument?

The thing I find hard to understand is the number of gay men who are all outraged/hurt by the response to their gayness of "you can't be gay ? its unnatural, its wrong " etc etc, then they themselves respond to some one saying they're bi with "you cant be bi..its unnatural, theres no such thing" etc.

I'm not sure why in 2006 people still concern themselves so much with other peoples orientation, or even their own

"To insist that someone is Bi-sexual robs from that person their rights to self determination, and to follow their own path in life, without being subjected to cultural/sub-cultural norms."

This remark seems a bit weak in that it doesn't recognise the real causation of norms, or their value. Or indeed the difficulty many have in acting outside of them. And sexual orientation is very limited in the degree of "self determination" .

Regarding monogamy, intelligent people who can dismiss the "perceptions" can still wonder about the likelihood of maintaining a monogomous relationship. If your orientation is towards one sex then a committed relationship with a person of that sex fulfills all your needs, or has the capacity to. If you're bisexual the love you have for your partner, or how fulfilling the physicaliy of it is does not neccessarily lessen the deep, intergral attraction and drive/need for the other sex. Whether this unfulfilled need is sexual/physical or emotional depends on how you understand your attraction to the different sexes.

Being "bi" I appreciate much of what it seems you want to convey, that its ok to be "bi". I just think its better to disregard any of those labels and say its ok to be you. Sadly this sound bite isnt true either, when you consider people with deviant/unhealthy drives .

Nevyn

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

Being "bi" I appreciate much of what it seems you want to convey, that its ok to be "bi". I just think its better to disregard any of those labels and say its ok to be you. Sadly this sound bite isnt true either, when you consider people with deviant/unhealthy drives .

What is deviant ?

I do agree with the unhealthy in terms of not safe and harmful to yourself and to others, but if a person has such wants/needs/desires that is not to do with them being Bi the same way it is not to do with them having brown eyes.

Boston

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

I'm not sure why in 2006 people still concern themselves so much with other peoples orientation, or even their own

"To insist that someone is Bi-sexual robs from that person their rights to self determination, and to follow their own path in life, without being subjected to cultural/sub-cultural norms."

This remark seems a bit weak in that it doesn't recognise the real causation of norms, or their value. Or indeed the difficulty many have in acting outside of them. And sexual orientation is very limited in the degree of "self determination" .

People have a right not to be subjected to what others define as normal. I think that's a pretty fundamental right. You say the comment is weak because it doesn't redress the causes of the norms nor the difficulty people have in acting outside of them, but that's doesn't negate the validity of the statement. People still have the right to define their sexuality what ever way they want, if they choose to act inside norms, grand, others don't.

I'd disagree that sexual orientation is very limited with regards to self determination, it's a function, a part, of who we are and what where about, and in that sense, the only limiting factor is us, ourselves. This of course is not to say we can wake up one day and say, "I'm straight, I'm gay, I'm a duck", but it certainly isn't something stamped on us from the outside world, it's something that comes from within, In my opinion anyway.

Regarding monogamy, intelligent people who can dismiss the "perceptions" can still wonder about the likelihood of maintaining a monogamous relationship. If your orientation is towards one sex then a committed relationship with a person of that sex fulfills all your needs, or has the capacity to. If you're bisexual the love you have for your partner, or how fulfilling the physicaliy of it is does not neccessarily lessen the deep, intergral attraction and drive/need for the other sex. Whether this unfulfilled need is sexual/physical or emotional depends on how you understand your attraction to the different sexes.

I think a monogamous Bi-sexual relationship does have the capacity to satisfy all your(maybe not actually your's) sexual needs, but perhaps not all your sexual desires. In fairness it's would be rare to find a partner that fulfills ever single sexual desire you have, it depends on what you get out of sex, and what you need to get out of it. Some things become more important then others. But I agree that for some, only sex with both sexes would satisfy them. It wouldn't be very intelligent to apply that same thought process to all Bi-sexuals.

Tar.Aldarion

azezil wrote:

Hmmm the one thought that really came to mind for me reading that was "if I say I'm a god, who are you to say I'm not!"

Hmm, that's what i was kind of thinking.

If one is sexually attracted to both sexes, that is what I would call bisexual.


EDIT: Who would think that bisexuals can't be monogomous? :eek:
Also, I doubt everybody is bisexual, there is probably a scale of 'how bisexual' somebody is.
I think it was in that film, let's talk about sex, that I saw that in last.0-6.
6=gay,3=equally attracted to both sexes and 0 being wholly atracted to the opposite sex.
I would say that a lot of people would be a one or a two etc while some would be a zero and so on.

Boston

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Hmm, that's what i was kind of thinking.

If one is sexually attracted to both sexes, that is what I would call bisexual.

What about emotions? Some people define their sexuality based on the type of emotions bonds they make with people. Sex, in and of itself void of emotions, is trivial to them. Personally, emotions are of huge significance to me, it was only when I felt love for another guy, did I truly realise my sexuality. I know I didn't use the word "emotions" in the above, but the implication is there.

Edit: As for who would think Bi-sexuals can't be monoganmous. It's a fairly common attitude.

Hmm_Messiah

Thaedydal wrote:

What is deviant ?

I do agree with the unhealthy in terms of not safe and harmful to yourself and to others, but if a person has such wants/needs/desires that is not to do with them being Bi the same way it is not to do with them having brown eyes.

I meant in the contex of saying that people should just be themselves, that while a nice sentiment, regarding sexuality and behaviour, it isnt so black and white. Being attracted to the same sex and acting on it if fine, but other "attractions" can be unhealthy, even criminal. Sexuality should be a simple thig, but its complicated by the fact it (usually) involves other people

PhantomBeaker

I like that original post.

One phenomena I've noticed (less with myself, more with others - mainly because most others get some :P ) is something I've called "Quantum Bisexuality".

Basically, (warning, not a physicist here, so some bits/terminology/concepts could be wrong) quantum physics goes into this whole thing of a particle/photon/quantum can be in one of two states when it's observed. So until it's observed it's considered to be in both states. So it's in both states until something observes it, and it's in just one definate state.

Ever notice that some people do the same with bi people? I mean, if you're single you're bi. But once you're going out with someone (observed) to people you're either straight or gay depending on the sex and gender of whoever you're going out with. So a bi person can marry, and their state collapses (in some people's heads) to just straight. etc etc.

'tis something I find both funny and frustrating.

Aoife

Nevyn

Yes it collapses which is really werid they expect you not to be that way or think that way or notice people which is just daft.

Annasopra

PhantomBeaker wrote:

I like that original post.

One phenomena I've noticed (less with myself, more with others - mainly because most others get some :P ) is something I've called "Quantum Bisexuality".

Basically, (warning, not a physicist here, so some bits/terminology/concepts could be wrong) quantum physics goes into this whole thing of a particle/photon/quantum can be in one of two states when it's observed. So until it's observed it's considered to be in both states. So it's in both states until something observes it, and it's in just one definate state.

Ever notice that some people do the same with bi people? I mean, if you're single you're bi. But once you're going out with someone (observed) to people you're either straight or gay depending on the sex and gender of whoever you're going out with. So a bi person can marry, and their state collapses (in some people's heads) to just straight. etc etc.

'tis something I find both funny and frustrating.

Aoife

I've noticed that too as in it's almost assumed that because you are going out with a person that automatically you are not "bi" anymore, I think it's just another misconception/preconception

I have to say though I used to think that way too regarding trans people ie I thought in my own head that mtf trans people would automatically become straight ie be into men or vice versa - I was having an argument with someone about a post-op mtf lesbian and they just argued that this just wasn't possible - (I gave up because I was not going to change his mind or in any way open it) - (USI LGBT standing conference about 3 or 4 years ago in Cork really opened my mind on T issues)

radiospan

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I think it was in that film, let's talk about sex, that I saw that in last.0-6.
6=gay,3=equally attracted to both sexes and 0 being wholly atracted to the opposite sex.
I would say that a lot of people would be a one or a two etc while some would be a zero and so on.

Yes, I think the film you're thinking of is "Kinsey". Although the Kinsey scale is slightly different to what you are saying, in that your position on the Kinsey scale depends only on your sexual history (regardless of attraction).

I'm of the opinion that there is a "gay scale" (from 1 to 10) where 1 is 100% straight and 10 is 100% gay, and that only a minority of people are either 1 or 10. Most people lie somewhere in between, and your position on the scale can vary throughout your life.

Just my two cents...

rainbow kirby

And of course, your attraction and history can differ sharply at times. I would agree with the previous comment that very few people are either 100% straight or 100% gay, but that a lot of people who would find it difficult to admit to being anything other than the extremes of the scale. People are comfortable with sexuality being a black and white thing, it's the shades of grey in the middle that confuse people.

milod

I agree, I consider myself bi-sexual, or maybe omni-sexual in that I have also had a relationship with a pre-op mtf. I had to tell my new g/f of my previous history because I don't like deception - but then her previous partner was a woman, so she was well disposed to accepting my history.

The ironic thing is, our '100%' gay friends have the most difficulty in accepting both our histories and how they sit with our current 'heterosexual' status...

On a separate note, I do think that being potentially attracted to both sexes might make monogamy just that little bit harder, especially since I find that I almost have two different personalities depending on who I'm 'with'. Perhaps there's a case for saying that bisexuals may also have split personalities?!

teemm

As someone who has at various times saw themselves as bi and TS and who was a regarded by others as gay, bi, TS and now straight. I can say now that I think the real difficulty is trying to fit people into categories.

The truth is people are sexual. But we are bound by society's norms. In ancient Rome or Greece homosexuality was OK as long as you were on top. Being a bottom was shameful. Different societies had different norms.

But at the end of the day we all have our own way of seeing the world. I believe most people have the potential to enjoy sex with either sex. However some who I believe are the minority only have an interest in the opposite sex or the same sex. Others pretend to be. We all know how some people believe you can choose to be gay.

This is a particular problem with the religious right. We all here know this is nonsense. When I hear that I ask them, did they choose not to be gay then? They deny it and then I confront with the fact they must have faced the choice a one stage if they believe what they say. In other word they at some stage found themselves having gay thoughts but 'chose' not to follow them. They are in fact hypocrites. Most likely they are bi but their beliefs and upbringing force them into the closet.

I believe many women are potentially bi, in part because sex for a woman is as much about the physical aspect but a sharing of intimacy and love. Probably women could cross back and forth more easily than men if society found it acceptable.

The reality I think is this. We have an instinct for reproduction so men and women are always going to be attracted to each other. But it's possible to reproduce without being attracted to your mate. Sexuality on the other hand in not about reproduction. In fact in many relationships of whatever hue, sex is just part of the overall package. It's about shared intimacies and experiences. It's getting on with life. Whether you partner is male or female or intersexed. Sometimes though, it's just the sexual release you want. Let's be honest here if you can have sex with a blow up doll or use a vibrator you can have sex with anything or anyone.

The whole bisexuality debate is a red herring. People like to categorise themselves into discrete groups. For gays, bisexuals are a threat to their whole gay identity. For straights they are a threat to their identity. I firmly believe most homophobes have questions to ask about their own sexuality.

I think bi's are the most honest. Yes I am attracted to women sometimes and sometimes men, sometimes at the same time. The question is. Am I in the majority or the minority?

milod

teemm wrote:

I think bi's are the most honest. Yes I am attracted to women sometimes and sometimes men, sometimes at the same time. The question is. Am I in the majority or the minority?

I'd say we're in the majority!

lemonead

a truly refreshing post and one i found to be very supportive of the way i feel myself as a bisexual woman. gay friends have readily accused me of sitting on the fence as they say and now that i have a long term gf my friends have started referring to me as a lesbian but i'm still the same bisexual woman i always was i'm just totally satisfied and fulfilled within my monogamous (please excuse my spelling) same sex relationship.
as for people finding it easier to come out as bisexual rather than gay i'd be curious about this as i think my mother found it an awful lot more difficult to accept my bisexuality than she would have if i had come out as gay.

but all in all,
thank you