What To Buy???

eirekev

im going to buy my first rifle and was wondering what do you reckon for my first rifle and what sort of price range will it be.i want to go bigger than the .22 but are the chances of me getting a calibre bigger than that for my first rifle good?ill be using it for fox hunting and some target practice i have around 1200 euro to spend bu want to go for the best value option.

Rovi

This is one of those 'How long is a piece of string?' questions.

As I recently discovered in another thread here, people have licenced fullbore rifles as their first rifle, but I'd be of the opinion that those instances were more the exception than the rule.

It's all in the hands of your local Superintendent, and these vary widely from district to district, as you can see in other threads.

johngalway

What do you intend to use it for? What's your budget? I have a shotgun, but I'm going for a .223 for fox control, never had a rifle before but no harm in applying.

John

Sparks

If you've never fired a rifle before eirekev, you'd be better off holding off on buying one, and joining your local target shooting range or gun club first and seeing what this is all about; and you'll get a huge amount of advice on what to get first.

Personally, I'd say a single-shot .22lr would be a good starting point as it'll teach you the basics and the cost of ammo won't ruin you. An old BSA martini action would do fine, and they're giving them away for ridiculous money second-hand in the UK.

Keelan

A good .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.
Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

jaycee

Keelan wrote:

A good .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.
Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

Good Advice ..
Except , I would put the order of events the other way around. :rolleyes:

I.E..
1. Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

2. Then ...A good bolt action .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.

eirekev

i also want to add that i have three years of expierience shooting rifles with the reserves

maglite

FCA must resist use of accrinim F**LS CARRING ARMS o no

newby.204

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

.223;)
For the veriety and cheapness of ammo, you will find it hard to beet.
Here are some rifle manufatures below, take your pick:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&lang=en

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/

http://www.tikka.fi/

http://www.sako.fi/

Ect, ect. Plenty more makes to choose from, just do a searc on the net.

newby.204

thanks keelan, i was lookin at a brno in .223, how cheap is the ammo exactly, like whats the cheapist box going?? its just im lookin at value for money as one of the factors , someone i know suggeseted .22-250? And i was also told about .223 WSSM, i dont actually know anyone with a rifle in this caliber, personally i think its a bit overkill for what i want. Do you have any experience with these caliber is it any good??

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

thanks keelan, i was lookin at a brno in .223, how cheap is the ammo exactly, like whats the cheapist box going?? its just im lookin at value for money as one of the factors , someone i know suggeseted .22-250? And i was also told about .223 WSSM, i dont actually know anyone with a rifle in this caliber, personally i think its a bit overkill for what i want. Do you have any experience with these caliber is it any good??

Have a look at the link below newby.204:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054933804

Go to my post, i have listed most of the prices of .223 ammo.
As for the .22-250 & .223 WSSm, all i can say is, loud, sharp recoil, barrell burner and barrel fouler.:(
.223 all the way i say.;)

newby.204

thanks keelan for all the help i had hovered over the .223 a while ago but decided i should look at all the available calibers and what would work best for fox/rabbit shooting from 60 - 200yrds, the price of the ammo is a great help as because im new i always think ill get the mick taken when im going to buy the rifle/scope/rounds. now that ive picked the caliber all i have to do is pick a rifle????????? any suggestions? Anyone know if you can get Weatherbys in ireland and if so a distributor in leinster!!!!!!!!!
Have a particular rifle in mind.



http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VMM223RR4O

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

thanks keelan for all the help i had hovered over the .223 a while ago but decided i should look at all the available calibers and what would work best for fox/rabbit shooting from 60 - 200yrds, the price of the ammo is a great help as because im new i always think ill get the mick taken when im going to buy the rifle/scope/rounds. now that ive picked the caliber all i have to do is pick a rifle????????? any suggestions? Anyone know if you can get Weatherbys in ireland and if so a distributor in leinster!!!!!!!!!
Have a particular rifle in mind.



http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VMM223RR4O

Have a look at the link below:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&idz=30&lang=en

The above are great value for money and accurate. Good starting point.

Keelan

Having said all this and the fact that your new to rifle shooting, i would firstly recomend for you to join a good rifle club and get some experience and safety tips on how to use a rifle.
Their are clubs in most parts of the country now.

Another point, your first application for a rifle is usually a .22lr, if as you say, want to go for a .223, then you might find it hard to get licenced the first time, unless that is, you know your local garda well and you get on well with them.

Best of luck.

Keelan.

newby.204

Hey all, keelan has been of great help to me, but i know very few people i can ask about where to find distributors of the rifles im after. If you have read my other two postings you know im from leinster, and i need to know are there any distributors of a) Mauser b) Weatherby c) Winchester
d) Savage e) Steyr-Mannlicher in the leinster area .
Yea i know where i can get Brnos, Tikkas and Sakos but i have a few rifles in mind for .223 as Keelan already suggested its an excellent caliber for the shooting ill be doing (rabbits/foxes at 60 - 200yrds)

Im new to the irish market, all my knowledge of rifles, shotguns, calibers and terms is VERY american as im the only one in my family who is into shooting i educated myself through "guns n ammo" mag etc.......

Any addresses phone numbers would be great thanks

Thanks keelan
im in the defence forces so experience with firearms is something i have. Ive been told i should get a .22lr first, but it took bout 5 weeks for my shotgun licence, and im new to the whole licence application etc but my experience with my FAO was really good he was very helpful and never really dicked me around or anything.

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

Hey all, keelan has been of great help to me, but i know very few people i can ask about where to find distributors of the rifles im after. If you have read my other two postings you know im from leinster, and i need to know are there any distributors of a) Mauser b) Weatherby c) Winchester
d) Savage e) Steyr-Mannlicher in the leinster area .
Yea i know where i can get Brnos, Tikkas and Sakos but i have a few rifles in mind for .223 as Keelan already suggested its an excellent caliber for the shooting ill be doing (rabbits/foxes at 60 - 200yrds)

Im new to the irish market, all my knowledge of rifles, shotguns, calibers and terms is VERY american as im the only one in my family who is into shooting i educated myself through "guns n ammo" mag etc.......

Any addresses phone numbers would be great thanks

Thanks keelan
im in the defence forces so experience with firearms is something i have. Ive been told i should get a .22lr first, but it took bout 5 weeks for my shotgun licence, and im new to the whole licence application etc but my experience with my FAO was really good he was very helpful and never really dicked me around or anything.

No problem newby, anytime.;)

Thats a long time you waited for a shotgun cert. It should not take more then 2 weeks.
But, as you say, you seem to get on with your FO, which helps a lot.

Good luck,

Keelan.

civdef

Just remember when going from the likes of "Guns & Ammo" that to magazines like newest is generally always best, so calibres like 223wssm get lots of publicity, despite filling a very small niche in the real world.

Dvs

Hello All,
I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Especially so, if they are not a member of a rifle club, where they would receive training and guidance from other members at the very least,
even then I think it would be a bad idea.

The real challenge to rifle shooters is,
learning how to setup and sight in your rifle,
and learning to shoot your rifle.

Learning about rifle and sight combinations for what applications and most important learning range estimation and learning to think about where your bullet goes when it leaves the barrel,
if it's a hit on target does it stop there?,
if it's a miss where does it end up?
learning about the need for an appropriate backstop in both cases!

Centerfire calibres are so expensive to buy ammo for, that with the best will in the world, you would have to win the lotto, to afford to do the practice needed.

The learning curve may be shorter for some, and they may be able to progress to centrefire rifles sooner, but everyone needs to learn their craft.

Most people, are just not prepared to put in the effort required to become competent at any sport, not just shooting sports, but the idea of somebody with a load fishing tackle or golf clubs that they don't know how to use,
is of no concern to me.

But someone with a centrefire rifle or any firearm, that they not prepared to or or cannot afford to, put in the effort required to become competent with it,
is a danger to shooting sports in general.

For a first rifle buy a .22lr and put in the time and learn to shoot it safely.

just my 2 cent €uro,
Dvs.

civdef

I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Agree 100%

Vegeta

well the guy is going fox hunting and the .223 is just a better round for hunting fox.

He has also been advised (several times) to firstly join a club learn his craft and then get a rifle. He could ignore this get a rifle and go maiming foxes against all advice given. He has been given sound advice but it is up to him if he chooses to follow it or not.

Gun safety is very important but he would have to be aware of pentration, backstop etc no matter what calibre he shoots

you state that centerfire ammo is dear but buying a .22lr would only add to his expense if he eventually did buy a .223 or .220 swift

I agree with what you're main point is though: safety is paramount

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

you state that centerfire ammo is dear but buying a .22lr would only add to his expense if he eventually did buy a .223 or .220 swift

I'm sure they're out there, but I personally know of no fullbore rifle shooter who doesn't also have at least one other rifle in .22LR. And not because they had to have one in order to ease the path to getting the fullbore rifle, either.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

I'm sure they're out there, but I personally know of no fullbore rifle shooter who doesn't also have at least one other rifle in .22LR. And not because they had to have one in order to ease the path to getting the fullbore rifle, either.

well i hope to be one (if i am granted my .223), i do have a .22 PCP air rifle though and have used my brothers hornet and .270 but no .22lr

So now you know 1

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

well i hope to be one (if i am granted my .223), i do have a .22 PCP air rifle though and have used my brothers hornet and .270 but no .22lr

So now you know 1

Fair enough.

Not in the biblical sense, obviously

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

well the guy is going fox hunting and the .223 is just a better round for hunting fox.

He has also been advised (several times) to firstly join a club learn his craft and then get a rifle. He could ignore this get a rifle and go maiming foxes against all advice given.

And it might be fair to assume, he intends to do this at night with a lamp!
most experienced shooters would leave a shot the were not sure of, knowing they would get another shot again, maybe only an hour later, chances are a newbie will not.

So it would be a newbie shooter, with a centerfire rifle shooting at night,
with a rifle that he may or may not have or know how to zero the sights on....

If maming foxes was all that might happen, it would be bad enough!

Vegeta wrote:

He has been given sound advice but it is up to him if he chooses to follow it or not.

Well that won't do you, me or shooting sports in general much good,
if he or another newbie, has a total brain fart!

Not a flame, just a fact.

Vegeta wrote:

Gun safety is very important but he would have to be aware of pentration, backstop etc no matter what calibre he shoots

I re-read my post just to check, and I did not claim it was calibre specific.

just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Hello All,
I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Especially so, if they are not a member of a rifle club, where they would receive training and guidance from other members at the very least,
even then I think it would be a bad idea.

The real challenge to rifle shooters is,
learning how to setup and sight in your rifle,
and learning to shoot your rifle.

Learning about rifle and sight combinations for what applications and most important learning range estimation and learning to think about where your bullet goes when it leaves the barrel,
if it's a hit on target does it stop there?,
if it's a miss where does it end up?
learning about the need for an appropriate backstop in both cases!

Centerfire calibres are so expensive to buy ammo for, that with the best will in the world, you would have to win the lotto, to afford to do the practice needed.

The learning curve may be shorter for some, and they may be able to progress to centrefire rifles sooner, but everyone needs to learn their craft.

Most people, are just not prepared to put in the effort required to become competent at any sport, not just shooting sports, but the idea of somebody with a load fishing tackle or golf clubs that they don't know how to use,
is of no concern to me.

But someone with a centrefire rifle or any firearm, that they not prepared to or or cannot afford to, put in the effort required to become competent with it,
is a danger to shooting sports in general.

For a first rifle buy a .22lr and put in the time and learn to shoot it safely.

just my 2 cent €uro,
Dvs.

I mentioned all this in my post.:rolleyes:
Most of us have been their and at one time, we were all biginners.

Keelan.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

And it might be fair to assume, he intends to do this at night with a lamp!
most experienced shooters would leave a shot the were not sure of, knowing they would get another shot again, maybe only an hour later, chances are a newbie will not.

So it would be a newbie shooter, with a centerfire rifle shooting at night,
with a rifle that he may or may not have or know how to zero the sights on....

If maming foxes was all that might happen, it would be bad enough!

Well that won't do you, me or shooting sports in general much good,
if he or another newbie, has a total brain fart!

Not a flame, just a fact.

I re-read my post just to check, and I did not claim it was calibre specific.

just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

well to start if a guy does go out at night and take risky shots in the dark it doesn't matter what calibre they have its unsafe, even a shotgun in those situations is just stupid.

Zeroing the sights on most rifle/scope set ups is pretty much the same, there are obvious differences such as bullet drop is much less for a .223 than a .22lr over 100-200yards

well there is nothing legally stopping the OP from applying for a licence for any rifle so its up to the super to decide if the op is fit to hold such a licence (for a centerfire that is). It may be a sad state of affairs that the OP can just ignore everything we tell him but its the reality we live in

you didn't have to re-read your post, I was just implying that most safety lessons learned with a .22lr are the same with a .223/308 just on bigger scales. More penetration, bullets travel very far and bullet drop is less but if a person learns all the skills for centerfire marksmanship and safety at a range first (like he has been advised by loads of users) then i don't see a problem

Dvs

Hello Keelan,
yes, in response to the OP you did tell them to learn with a .22lr and join a club.

This is good and reasonable advice.


I was speaking in reference to the advice below given in response to
newby.204 who states, he has had a shotgun for all of 3 weeks!
and similar advice, posted by others on various threads recently.

newby.204 wrote:

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

Keelan wrote:

.223;)
For the veriety and cheapness of ammo, you will find it hard to beet.
Here are some rifle manufatures below, take your pick:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&lang=en

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/

http://www.tikka.fi/

http://www.sako.fi/

Ect, ect. Plenty more makes to choose from, just do a searc on the net.

Dvs.

newby.204

I thank al for their suggestions and advice, however im defence forces and i am confident i can zero a rife properly due to the fact ive done it several times on a Steyr(5.56). I understand the concerns of more experienced hunters however im not new to firearms, just the civilian market. I wouldnt shoot a fox with a shotgun, or a .22lr as i consider it, personally speakin, to be cruel. I am unfamiliar with the civi calibers so i asked for advice.

I appreciate the concern about risky shots, no backstop etc however im not an idiot and understand a bullet doesnt stop till it hits something, therefore i only would take shots with a backstop.

I am opting for a .223 as ballistically it siuts my needs, as would a .222. If anyone has any experience with the .22 magnum, hornet and reckons it would do i am open to suggestions

Dvs

newby.204 wrote:

I thank al for their suggestions and advice, however im defence forces and i am confident i can zero a rife properly due to the fact ive done it several times on a Steyr(5.56). I understand the concerns of more experienced hunters however im not new to firearms, just the civilian market. I wouldnt shoot a fox with a shotgun, or a .22lr as i consider it, personally speakin, to be cruel. I am unfamiliar with the civi calibers so i asked for advice.

Well obviously you are a firearms expert,
seeing as you are in the defense forces:rolleyes:

You say that shooting a fox with a shotgun is cruel,
I suppose this is because you feel that it is ballistically insufficient within its useable range, I guess this is an indication of your expertise!

newby.204 wrote:

I appreciate the concern about risky shots, no backstop etc however im not an idiot and understand a bullet doesnt stop till it hits something, therefore i only would take shots with a backstop.

No, a bullet does not stop, until it stops, regardless of what it hits!

I predict you will be posting advice for others,
before your post count gets to thirty.

Dvs.

Sparks

Okay lads, play nicer
Newby, defence forces training is a good start, but it doesn't teach you all you need to know to hunt safely; these guys do have something to teach and we all have perfectly reasonable wishes to see people train and shoot safely.
(And DvS, plenty of people here were posting good advice from their first post onwards )