What To Buy???

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

I predict you will be posting advice for others,
before your post count gets to thirty.

Dvs.

A bit like yourself then??:D

Personally I would agree with DvS, some the of the FCA people we get down are quite scary in the the way that they miss-handle a weapon as, since it not a steyr, its not a real gun.

Join a club, learn the the ropes, and then when you are confident and competent, go hunting.

Vegeta

look newby.204 you sound like you have a decent head on your shoulders with regards safety and from your original post i would say that a .223 would suit your needs as it has a decent range for foxes (200-250 yards) the ammo isn't hugely expensive

There are people here who say you should start with a rimfire and then go onto a centerfire like the .223. Your budget is 1000 euro so that doesn't really leave room to join a range when buying the .223. Even with the .22lr (with scope and range membership) you will come in just under the 1000 euro for a rifle you don't even want and isn't effective for what you want to do.

safety is the number on aspect of shooting, you cant make one mistake ever when hunting as that one mistake could cost you or someone else there life. So even with your current training seek out some guidance when shooting. If you cant afford to join a range, go hunting with some of the respected guys in your gun club and leave your gun at home until you observe how to act in the field with a civilian rifle

newby.204

I have no intentions of posting advice as im not familiar with hunting, just firearms, its a personal opinion on hunting foxes with shotgunc, ive seen foxes take four or five shots from 3inch magnums before they stop runnin. I Believe in a clean kill, might only have my firearm 3 weeks but ive already had several "twitchers" and i hate to see an animal like that, it sickens me. Yes i realise it will happen but i like to avoid it. Ballistics dont always transfer to the field very well, a shotgun may be "sufficient" but its not for me.

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

Im afraid newby, this seems to be the case on this forum:rolleyes: , too many armchair snipers telling folks what to do.
They forget that they themselfs were once biginners.

keelan.

Dvs

Keelan wrote:

Im afraid newby, this seems to be the case on this forum:rolleyes: , too many armchair snipers telling folks what to do.
They forget that they themselfs were once biginners.

keelan.

Keelan,
I do not intend to get into sh*te talk tennis with you about this,
but for your information, I am not a sniper, nor have I ever claimed to be a sniper,
Real world, armchair or otherwise.

I have not forgotten that I was a beginner once also,
but when I was, I learnt to shoot with an air rifle as a teenager,
then when I was a few years older, I bought my first shotgun
and a few years after that my first rifle a .22lr.

Since then I have shot with a lot of different firearms of various types,
and calibres, but the early years in my shooting with these firearms,
is where I learnt the basics of firearms safety and hunting.

Many years later, I am still learning,
anyone that claims to know everything about anything is either,
an idiot, a liar or both!

Keelan wrote:

A bit like yourself then??:D

I never claimed to be a newbie and have not posted much that could be considered advice,
comment, observation, My, not so humble opinion;)

newby.204 wrote:

Originally Posted by newby.204

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

I am not attempting to make an enemy of you or anyone else,
You stated you were a newbie you even took the username newby.204
now you are saying, that you are a member of the defense forces,
and not such a novice after all.

I have shot on a few ranges in my time,
and none of them provides any education,
in respect of the use of firearms for hunting.

Any Range=controlled situation,
Known firing point and direction of fire,
berm built to contain shoot throughs, misses, and ND's
mess up here, you get your arse kicked by the RO.

Hunting=Uncontrolled situation,
UnKnown firing point and direction of fire.
mess up here??????????????????????????

Just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

newby.204

newby.204 wrote:

Dvs wrote:

I am not attempting to make an enemy of you or anyone else,
You stated you were a newbie you even took the username newby.204
now you are saying, that you are a member of the defense forces,
and not such a novice after all..

bad choice of username, ment new to forum/hunting, sorry for the confusion

Dvs wrote:

I have shot on a few ranges in my time,
and none of them provides any education,
in respect of the use of firearms for hunting.

Any Range=controlled situation,
Known firing point and direction of fire,
berm built to contain shoot throughs, misses, and ND's
mess up here, you get your arse kicked by the RO..

I agree completely with you here firearms are a priviliege in this country, not a right, and as such we have a responsibility to use them safely

Dvs wrote:

Hunting=Uncontrolled situation,
UnKnown firing point and direction of fire.
mess up here??????????????????????????.

Someone could end up dead, and not something i want on my concience, so i appreciate your concerns.

I would like to get back on topic to my question a below........
I am opting for a .223 as ballistically it suits my needs, as would a .222. If anyone has any experience with the .22 magnum, hornet and reckons it would do i am open to suggestions????


Below there are two rifles,both Brno(cz).

The cz527varmintk is available in
.223/.222 but doubt ill find one second hand!

The cz527 is available in .22hornet/.222/.223, prob more cahance of findin this in 2nd hand. Its in .22hornet so if anyone reckons that this would drop a fox, im open to advice/experiences!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinniew

With reference to all the goodwill posts here on the forum regarding training etc. I would like to mention a few bits and pieces that came to my attention over the past couple of years:

First off......I learned to handle firearms from my brother......ex defence forces.......then later in the reserves myself.

Can't speak for other units but the training we were given was excellent.....better than any other "training" I've recieved.
Yes I'm sure everyone has a story about someone they knew in the reserves and how dangerous they were......

So....could all the "experts" here stop knocking the RDF/PDF etc?

Later I joined a club.......where one or two senior members ran safety courses.........extremely basic courses.......but containing all the basics for safe use of a rifle......on a club range.
I've also seen people....quite a few slip through the net and go months waiting to do a safety course......while firing away everytime they attend the range

I've seen people turn around on the firing point with a loaded, cocked semi auto rifle......seen senior R/Os open a bolt during a hangfire, seen too much to writte about here.....all club trained people.


So please lets not hear how the clubs are the answer to all our prayers and that once a club member you're gonna be given all the tuition you can swallow.
Forget about it!

The forum here is a valuable resource of info on all manner of shooting disciplines.......make the info freely available......offer advice and encouragement.
If someone comes with a question be patient......help and guide them

For new shooters: DO JOIN A CLUB .....push for info anywhere u can.
There is no one rule book to follow....take on board as much info as you can and use it.

As a little sidebar to this........I would also like to point out that although I've seen some "safety instruction" on the range/in courses.......I've seen noboby getting any help in making them a better shot......that kind of help comes from friends........

newby.204

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Changed my mind disregard previous post on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, i know ive caused some tension in the last few days about my choice in caliber to start off with. After doing some serious reading and dragging every bit of advice out of anyone i know with a gun.........

Im thinking, now just thinking, of applying for two rifles at the same time.
A; Brno cz 527 in .22 hornet(pic below)
B; Brno cz 452 in .17HMR(pic below took this off a website!)

If i get the cz452 im looking to set it up rifle/scope/bipod/moderator! for rabbits

Im on a tight budget but ive been doing some ringing and i just might about make it!

Im thinking the FO will say NO right off because its two rifles at once so im knid of hoping some one will give me some hope. yea stupid i know, but i cant moderate the .22 hornet for rabbits and the .17 i wouldnt use on foxes, unless someone has taken foxes with a .17 in 100yrds, doubtful??????

Well heres hopin let me know what ye think.

Vegeta

ok the .22 hornet would be a fine rifle for fox hunting and the .17 would be lovely for the rabbits

I honestly think if you go talk to your super and tell him why you are applying for 2 rifles he'll be a little more understanding.

You will also have to licence the moderator so you are going for 3 licences at once there not 2

Get the rifle licences if ya can and worry bout moderator later

newby.204

Vegeta wrote:

ok the .22 hornet would be a fine rifle for fox hunting and the .17 would be lovely for the rabbits

I honestly think if you go talk to your super and tell him why you are applying for 2 rifles he'll be a little more understanding.

You will also have to licence the moderator so you are going for 3 licences at once there not 2

Get the rifle licences if ya can and worry bout moderator later

Oh i dint know you had to have a licence for a moderator, so there you go another lesson learned. If ive to get 3 at once it would be a lil dodgy so i think ill just apply for the 2 rifles and get the moderator later as you said.

Rovi

I'm sure you're like the vast majority of law-abiding people in this country, in that your only formal contact with the Gardai is at routine roadside tax/drink checkpoints or perhaps asking for directions on the street, so the whole 'going into the station to conduct formal business at the counter' thing may be a bit daunting at first. Believe me, after a while it'll get to be no bother, and you'll be on first name terms with the Firearms Officer and probably a few others. I'm at the point where they roll their eyes to heaven and wonder "What's he looking for now?" when they see me coming. :rolleyes:

With that in mind, and before you pay money for a pair of rifles, I'd suggest you ramble into the station some day for a chat with the Firearms Officer, telling them what you're thinking and explaining your reasoning for your proposals.
Provided you have your ducks neatly in a row (upstanding citizen, land/permission to shoot, etc), there's no reason why you shouldn't be issued licences for the two guns.
What it'll come down to, is the attitude and 'policy' of your local Superintendent. A chat with the Firearms Officer will give you a lot of info on this, and may colour your decision making process and application strategy.

If you're prepared to tell us what Garda District you're in, it's quite likely someone here has experience of licencing rifles with your Superintendent and might be able to give you their thoughts on the subject too.

Oh, and I'd agree with leaving the moderator out of it for the moment.

Umiq88

.17hmr will take foxes within 100 yards as will a .22wmr

Really depends which route you want to go down a .22wmr is perfect for shooting rabbits and foxes with a head shot the rest of the rabbit is fine for eating and within 100 yards a correctly placed shot on a fox will drop him but if you intend to do a serious amout of shooting id up it just for convenience to a hornet or .223. If you want a rifle for just shooting rabbits a .22lr would be a good choice as with subs and a moderator all you'll hear is the pin hitting the cartridge and wont do much damage to a rabbit a hmr cant be made silent without spending alot of money.

I would go for a .22wmr (magnum) if your not going for a serious amount of foxes and can get within 100yards and it will do the job on rabbits as well. Ballistic tip bullets can be bought which will extend the range of it to short of 200 yards if your a good shot so you could take a fox out to 120 or so.

A .17hmr will do the same job but the magnum has more killing power at that range with the heavier bullet but you can shoot rabbits out to 200yards but you shouldnt have any problem getting within 80 yards of a rabbit

.22lr will take rabbits out to 90yards it will teach you alot about tradjectory and bullet drop compensation

There is also a .17hm2 which is a faster .22lr with a flat tradjectory which is nice if you dont want to be allowing for drop and a very good rabbit gun but again i dont think you'll be able to silence it completely

Not to sure about a hornet should take a fox out to 200yards anyway but not great for rabbits id imagine

newby.204

Im in kildare........

Thanks for the advice as you say i do find it a bit daunting, the FO knows me a bit but not too well, i got on with him when i was applying for my licence for my shotgun. Got it in 5 weeks, after talking to people thats seems to be very short round here. i can have a chat with the FO as you said and explain what i want and why i wnat it.

Between the three farms i used for my licence there is a total of 200+ acres!
Never had any run in with cops as seen by the fact i have the shotgun licence!!!!!!!!

Im hoping he will accept my reasons for the two rifles you see the smile on my face from the moon!!!! And ill leave the moderator for a while

Rovi

newby.204 wrote:

Thanks for the advice as you say i do find it a bit daunting, the FO knows me a bit but not too well, i got on with him when i was applying for my licence for my shotgun. Got it in 5 weeks, after talking to people thats seems to be very short round here. i can have a chat with the FO as you said and explain what i want and why i wnat it.

Between the three farms i used for my licence there is a total of 200+ acres!
Never had any run in with cops as seen by the fact i have the shotgun licence!!!!!!!!

Well, if you were applying in Portlaoise, I'd think it'd only be a formality that you'd get your licences. You've covered all the criteria that the Super likes to see: already known to the local Gardai (in a GOOD way ), already on the PULSE system with the shotgun licence, plenty of land/permission.
The only other thing I might suggest if you don't already have it, is some form of insurance cover. Membership of a Gun Club (NARGC) or Target Shooting Club usually includes this, but you can organise it for yourself if you want.
Here's Countryside Alliance Ireland's membership application page- http://www.caireland.org/Support_Us/join_us/Republic_of_Ireland_-_Full_Membership/.
€60 gets you insurance for all sorts of activities, and your landowners will like to see it too.

Good luck

Umiq88

another factor might be the cost of ammo depending on your income

rimfire ammo is alot cheaper than centrefire

.22lr is around 6-9 a box of 50 depending on the quaility
.22wmr is 12-13 a box of 50 or 19-22 for ballistic tip high quaility
.17hmr im not sure imagine its 14-16
.17hm2 have no idea
.22 hornet is 22 a box of 50 i think but im not sure
.223 is around 12 for 20 for cheapish stuff you can get alot more expensive stuff

my advice would be a .22lr and a .22 hornet both rifles and ammo can be bought cheap for high quaility stuff and the .22lr allows you to plink(shoot at cans and stuff) for very cheap which is great fun and then you havethe hornet for more serious shooting at longer ranges

Failing that i would apply for a .22wmr which would be the second best option imo

Let us know how you get on and what you decide to do

If 1200 is your budget then second hand is the way to go just make sure to inspect it to make sure its in order and buy from a reputable dealer all common sense really

cz/brno is the way to go as regards getting your moneys worth they are a very fine rifle for hunting and casual practice and are not expensive

i have a cz 452 .22wmr cost €300 in v.good condition put a scope on for €50 and for €350 have a very accurate rifle which would not be bet by anything under €1000

Rovi

I'd concur with psittacosis' reasoning on getting a .22lr and a .22 Hornet.
.22lr for bunny bashing/plinking/target fun and games, and the .22 Hornet for foxy.

They're both licenced as .220 calibre firearms, so there'll be none of the jumping-through-hoops required for getting a fullbore rifle (.222, .223, etc), and there appear to be plenty of nice used Hornets out there at the moment, what with people 'trading up' now that the fullbore stuff is finally available.

.22lr has been available here forever, so there is a vast array of new and used guns to choose from.

.22lr is unbeatable for 'value for money' shooting fun. Bulk packs/cartons of ammunition are readily available for well under €30/500 rounds (>€3/50).

spideog7

Really depends which route you want to go down a .22wmr is perfect for shooting rabbits and foxes with a head shot the rest of the rabbit is fine for eating and within 100 yards a correctly placed shot on a fox will drop him

yep thats the direction I was thinkin of goin' too seems like a nice all rounder to me...and probably easier to get a licence .

Just remember though if your gettin 2 rifles it's quite possible that you'll need a gun cabinet and for 2 rifles (1 scoped) and a shotgun that'd be a fairly big gun cabinet (or probably a second one at the very least)...which all ads to the expense, €250 there or thereabouts.
Thats the only expense that would put me off because, although its necessary, that would push it up a nice bit

newby.204

Have a gun cabinet, holds three guns. Was talking to a friends bro and he agrees a .22lr for bunnies, plinking etc and the .22 hornet or failing that
.22wmr for those red b@5t@rD5 out there!

Read this; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054937202

and if you read the link you know i just had bad news!!!!
Gona price some Brnos this weekend!!!!
Ill see how everything goes and ill let you know!