Should the man always pay?

Enii

It doesn't matter what eveyryone elses opinion on the paying or not is. For the OP it was a deal breaker.

Personally I think the man should pay and the woman should offer. However, even if the woman does not offer the man should still pay and then not see her again.

Don't understand what the OP wanted from the girl though by mentioning that he preferred to split the bill. He wasn't going to see her again so he should have just cut his losses and never see her again. I think he was being a bit scabby and wanted to force her to pay but then felt all guilty by her reaction.

Dragan

meowCat wrote:

If you have never asked to split the bill before and out of the blue ask her to, in fairness, what do you expect? She most likely thought it's your way of saying let's just stay friends, I'm not that interested any more

I'm really sorry, but any girl possible of making this thought pathway seem logical to herself is not the kind of girl any dude needs to be going out with.

Him :"Honey.....would you mind splitting the bill with me this time?"
Her : "You don't want to see me any more????"

Him :"I'm just popping out to drop these DVD's back up to the store, would you like anything from the shop?"
Her :"You slept with my mother??????" :eek: :rolleyes:

As for the OP, dude, it would strike me that you may be better off without!!

The Corinthian

There are some women who one could genuinely call ‘gold diggers’, or more correctly parasites, but these are in reality rare in modern Society. What is more commonplace is the ‘princess syndrome’ that will sometimes include the attitude that it is a man’s duty to ‘wine and dine’ a woman indefinitely.

It’s not that they are avaricious or consciously parasitic, but more that they are immature and still believe that any romance inevitably revolves solely around them. They simply never learned that there is another person in the relationship and that as a result you will have to compromise if you want them to do likewise. Typically few, if any, men put up with their **** for long and they end up almost always spinsters well into their forties.

The male equivalent, in case anyone accuses me of sexism, tends to continue behaving like a playboy-commitment-phobe long after everyone around him has settled down. Every woman in his life will inevitably fail some litmus test or other, and will either get dumped or dump him after realising that it’s not going anywhere. Again, they end up almost always bachelors well into their forties.

In both cases, the hallmark is an individual who has very uncompromising ideas about relationships. If you’re with them, it’s on their terms or not at all. Some do eventually wake up and smell the coffee that there’s another sentient in the relationship, but they’re late bloomers if they do.

But retuning to the specific scenario highlighted in this thread, whether a man is expected to pay always, on the first or first few dates or ever depends upon the Society both parties come from. Relative age and wealth are also considerations. In most, if not all, of Europe couples start splitting bills relatively early on; almost immediately in Scandinavia and after two or three dates in some Mediterranean countries.

Also bare in mind that while many women will contribute, you’ll still be paying the majority of the time. Given the money they spend to look good for you in the first place, this is perhaps not an unfair expectation.

If you find a woman is not offering to split a bill after a few dates and this bothers you, then don’t bother to bring it up. She’s not offering because she doesn’t want to and bringing up the subject will simply result in either an embarrassed or hostile reaction.

So if it bothers you, move on. Don’t whinge about it. There’s plenty more fish in the sea and the vast majority will not behave in that manner.

Zombrex

If I ask a girl out on a first date I don't mind paying because I am taking her out. It was my idea, she is agreeing to come out with me.

But once you are actually dating, ie you both are arranging to both go out because you both like each others company, then it is ridiculous that the guy should still be paying the whole amount.

I would have very little respect for a woman who expects that each time.

6th

agent smith wrote:

i have no problem paying, if i ask someone out, i'll pay.
altho to back up meowcat's point. there are times where it's nice to be offered,

Looks like smith has it right. I like to pay (in saying that i'm married now) but its nice if they offer.

Its your own fault for letting it get to that stage.

I'm old fashioned so i think a guy should always pay. Unless she makes the invite.

Mad Mike

Interesting Post Conrinthian - I have met several examples male and female of the type of individuals you describe.

AngryAnderson

6th wrote:

I'm old fashioned so i think a guy should always pay.

<sarcasm>Me too. Which is why I think that the woman should leave her job right after the wedding and stay at home keeping the house clean and looking after the kids</sarcasm>

Zombrex

AngryAnderson wrote:

<sarcasm>Me too. Which is why I think that the woman should leave her job right after the wedding and stay at home keeping the house clean and looking after the kids</sarcasm>

Damn straight! ... back in the kitchen women, where you belong!

People seem to be forgetting that men traditionally paid for a woman because a woman traditionally didn't have any money! And if she did have money it was money given to her by her father, and it would be rude for the man to take the fathers money, not the womans.

I wonder if 6th would be willing to give over total control of all her money to her husband (not that she would have had any, it would have been controlled by her father) ... or is that a little too traditional

Zulu

Great post TC.

spinandscribble

thats just stupid. i cant believe there are girls so greedy and backwards as to think that they just need to sit there and the guy should pay their lazy arses way. i never expected my current boyfriend to pay my way and i wouldnt expect it from anyone. he did pay for valentines dinner and we'd get each other little things every now and then but seriously any girl that thinks the guy should pay her way for her needs to get her head checked.

dubferg

Wow, did I open a can of worms or what!

I've emailed with the lady in question since, and it's been quite civilised :-)

Basically, she explained that she likes to be "wooed" and wants that really romantic experience. And apparently part of that can be the man paying for the woman. There were a few other comments about me being a bit mechanical and insensetive, which I know are true. She said she had plans to invite me out to dinner next week, and pay herself. I'll take her word for it.

Anyway, I've discovered that we do have very different views on certain things, and we won't be getting together anytime soon methings.

As for me wanting to finish the relationship: I wasn't really sure of that, so I never intended to actually finish it that night. I just felt unsure. So mentioning the money was NOT about getting my money back, it was more about the whole principle: was I going to end up paying all the time?

I don't feel comfortable if I'm paying all the time. I would feel she then owes me something, even that I'm buying favours to a certain extent. I like the idea of equality, in all respects.

Here's my take:
the woman should ALWAYS offer to share the bill, if she can afford it. Then there are two options:
- the man can refuse, pay himself, and be the incurable romantic that some people want
- he can accept to share. Maybe he's romantic in lots of other ways!
At least there's no serious embarrasment in either cases, and you know where you stand.

I can see that some people come from (or long for) a different era, where men were knights in shining armour etc etc. But remember that in those days, men dominated women too, and the women stayed at home and did all the washing and cleaning. I certainly don't want that kind of relationship!

Phew, rant over:)

Zombrex

dubferg wrote:

Basically, she explained that she likes to be "wooed" and wants that really romantic experience.

Sounds like she likes the whole "free dinner" experience .. funny that that is her idea of romance isn't :rolleyes:

Wonder what she would say if you said your idea of romance is a blow-job on the first date

In fairness to a lot of women I was talking to my female house mate about this and she wanted to give this girl a slap, so thank god not all women think like this.

Anyway, good luck with this one

Ickle Magoo

Wicknight wrote:

Sounds like she likes the whole "free dinner" experience .. funny that that is her idea of romance isn't :rolleyes:

Just what I was about to say - whatever happened to flowers stolen from the neighbours garden or bad poetry??!

py2006

Also, there are alot of women who will half-heartidly offer to share the bill but would have absolutely no intention of doing so. They know it will make the guy feel awkward and he will insist on paying it.

A mate of mine was on a date with this girl who just sat there letting him pay for 4 rounds of drinks, not once offering to get a round.

He took his time on his 4th drink, he had half a pint left and she was sitting there with an empty glass.

When his pint was empty he just went to the bar and got himself one and didn't bother getting her another! He said nothing to her for the rest of the night then just got up and walked out and left her there when his pint was gone!

He has had it up to his ear with these (his words) "Prima Donna Dublin girls"!

6th

Wicknight wrote:

I wonder if 6th would be willing to give over total control of all her money to her husband (not that she would have had any, it would have been controlled by her father) ... or is that a little too traditional

Dude, I'm a dude! And no, my wife is the one who is good with the money in our house but we have all seperate accounts bar a mutual savings one. I believe in independence but i think more often than not its the guy that asks the girl out so really i mean whoever does the asking should pay.

6th

I do believe too that if a guy takes a girl to dinner (and he pays) and she purges/is bilemic (spelling?) he should take her to the smalls claim court for the porice of the meal.

I'm only half serious about the above

The Corinthian

py2006 wrote:

Also, there are alot of women who will half-heartidly offer to share the bill but would have absolutely no intention of doing so. They know it will make the guy feel awkward and he will insist on paying it.

Porca puttana. Many women would be halfhearted in their offer for the same reason most of the men here (and I use the term loosely) appear to lack the confidence to address the same issue.

I live in a nation of passive-fscking-aggressive’s :rolleyes:

Victor

dubferg wrote:

Basically, she explained that she likes to be "wooed" and wants that really romantic experience.

And you explained you needed sex? Yes?

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

Sounds like she likes the whole "free dinner" experience .. funny that that is her idea of romance isn't :rolleyes:

Wonder what she would say if you said your idea of romance is a blow-job on the first date

In fairness to a lot of women I was talking to my female house mate about this and she wanted to give this girl a slap, so thank god not all women think like this.

Anyway, good luck with this one

Hey, I agreed.

I wonder if I posted my take on all this.

If my bf is working full time and I have no money, he pays.
If I get money somehow and try to pay for all of dinner to make up for the times I can't, we get into a tussle about it and it's half and half. Now and then I like to buy him things. Just because
If we're both broke, we don't go out til we're not broke.

As a general rule, it should be half and half or taking turns within reason.
And this is coming from a spoiled brat, I'd like to point out.

CathyMoran

Well, for a first date if it looks good for a second date then I hope that the guy pays for the meal, though I would pay for drinks/tip, having said that, I would always offer to pay dutch. If I do not fancy the guy I will insist on paying dutch. There have been ocasions where I would insist on paying for the first date, eg when I was a postgrad and the guy was an undergrad (it has happened!) As the relationship develops a 60% the guy and 40% me rule would tend to develop.

Zombrex

CathyMoran wrote:

Well, for a first date if it looks good for a second date then I hope that the guy pays for the meal,

And the guy is probably hoping for sex, or at least a bit of action. If a guy is paying for everything he is hoping to get something in return. Does he get it?

Suppose its true, men look for sex on a first date, women look for a free meal. I suppose it is a metaphor for what some people basically are looking for in a relationship I guess.

chump

Wicknight wrote:

And the guy is probably hoping for sex, or at least a bit of action. If a guy is paying for everything he is hoping to get something in return. Does he get it?

Men are always hoping for sex whether they pay for their dates meal or not... what's the point?

Zombrex

chump wrote:

Men are always hoping for sex whether they pay for their dates meal or not... what's the point?

Whats the point of what? Sex? I'll get you a good book I know ...

metrovelvet

Suppose its true, men look for sex on a first date, women look for a free meal. I suppose it is a metaphor for what some people basically are looking for in a relationship I guess.

Food and sex?

An american ecomomist [I forget who-it was a long time ago] described the dinner date ritual as the man trying to get the most sex for the littlest outlay of his wallet and the woman trying to get the best food for the littlest outlay of her :eek:

chump

Wicknight wrote:

Whats the point of what? Sex? I'll get you a good book I know ...

picture book i hope!

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote:

An american ecomomist [I forget who-it was a long time ago] described the dinner date ritual as the man trying to get the most sex for the littlest outlay of his wallet and the woman trying to get the best food for the littlest outlay of her :eek:

“Sex is the price women pay for marriage. Marriage is the price men pay for sex.” - Anonymous

“The difference between sex for money and sex for free is that the former generally costs less.” - Brendan Behan

Manolo Blahnik

I went on a date with a guy a few weeks back. Even though HE asked ME out I had to pay for everything. By everything I mean all cabs, drinks, cloakroom and food afterwards for both of us.

At the end of the night as a joke, I said ''oh I need to pay you back for that drink you bought me last week''... kinda laughing.. and he said ''oh yeah thanks.'' So I had to take it out and give the fiver to him...

After me paying for him the whole night he accepted a fiver off me for the drink he bought me the week beforehand. :rolleyes:

Zulu

Manolo Blahnik wrote:

After me paying for him the whole night he accepted a fiver off me for the drink he bought me the week beforehand. :rolleyes:

...I wouldn't be telling people about that if I was you.

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote:

Hey, I agreed.

I wonder if I posted my take on all this.

If my bf is working full time and I have no money, he pays.
If I get money somehow and try to pay for all of dinner to make up for the times I can't, we get into a tussle about it and it's half and half. Now and then I like to buy him things. Just because
If we're both broke, we don't go out til we're not broke.

As a general rule, it should be half and half or taking turns within reason.
And this is coming from a spoiled brat, I'd like to point out.

I totally agree!
I've only been working full time the last year and I always went out with older guys who insisted on paying for everthing and would only ever let me buy the odd round but i always showed my generosity by little surprises and buying presents here and there just for the sake of it and spending over the odds on xmas and birthday presents , i'd feel really guilty otherwise:o

Beruthiel

dubferg wrote:

Basically, she explained that she likes to be "wooed" and wants that really romantic experience.

LMAO
How does opening your wallet and emptying the contents equate to being "wooed"?

Manolo Blahnik

Zulu wrote:

...I wouldn't be telling people about that if I was you.

Why? It made me angry :mad:

Zulu

Manolo Blahnik wrote:

Why? It made me angry :mad:

Well no offence, but you were the bigger fool to give him the fiver - never mind letting yourself pay for everything!

Fanny Cradock

sounds like he took you for a ride... possibly in every sense.

Zombrex

Manolo Blahnik wrote:

I went on a date with a guy a few weeks back. Even though HE asked ME out I had to pay for everything.

Why?

As in - Why did you have to pay for everything?

Did he pull the old "Oh no, I have left my wallet on the kitchen table. Oh no what will I do"

AngryAnderson

Zulu wrote:

Well no offence, but you were the bigger fool to give him the fiver - never mind letting yourself pay for everything!

I wouldn't necessarily say you were a fool... seems like a fiver well spent if it means you never have to speak to the cheapskate again

Victor

coolsmileygirl wrote:

I've only been working full time the last year and I always went out with older guys who insisted on paying for everthing and would only ever let me buy the odd round

It is understandable where there is a distinct difference in income for the higher earner to pay more. Just like when you were 8 and your older brother / aunt / whoever would buy you things, without expecting something back.

As a courting couple, getting something back is nice, but not obligatory. If you buy someone a drink, the most you should expect is polite* converstion for the duration of the drink.


* or not so polite, depending.

CathyMoran

Victor wrote:

It is understandable where there is a distinct difference in income for the higher earner to pay more. Just like when you were 8 and your older brother / aunt / whoever would buy you things, without expecting something back.

As a courting couple, getting something back is nice, but not obligatory. If you buy someone a drink, the most you should expect is polite* converstion for the duration of the drink.


* or not so polite, depending.

That makes perfect sense. If I earn more than the guy I will try and snatch the bill from him and pay. The problem happens when the guy is too proud to admit that he earns less than you, I don't date someone based on their bank balance, anything but...one guy who I really loved found it hard that I earned more than him and tried to pay more.

Manolo Blahnik

Fanny Cradock wrote:

sounds like he took you for a ride... possibly in every sense.

Hah no that was our last date hmmm I wonder why

Did he pull the old "Oh no, I have left my wallet on the kitchen table. Oh no what will I do"

He just got out of cabs straight away, when we got into a pub he just sat there so I offered him a drink cause I was going up after that he told me what he's having to my amazement. The guy has a good job like :rolleyes: Then when we were getting a takeaway he let me pay kinda stepped back if you will.

Ah I dunno maybe he's a broke gambling addict or something

honru

Women spend so much money (and time) anyway on making themselves look good, so there's no harm rewarding them with some quality dinner now and then.

Saying that, if I took a girl out to a formal restaurant, I'd imagine she'd expect me to pay. She is my guest after all.

the_syco

If I take out someone, I pay. If they take/ask me out, they pay. Up to a point that is. If a mate buys me a drink or two, cos I'm broke, I won't ask for numberous expensive drinks (ie: instead of knocking back my usual sunni & coke, I'd drink pints of bulmers). Likewise, if I'm buying my mates a drink, I buy pints, not shots. And to the f*cker who thinks they're sly asking me to get a shot as well as their pint, they get no shot. So I'd proberly use that same game plan if I ask/was asked by a lady on a date.

Trix

well me and my boyfriend always go halves. if we go out for a meal then i might pay and then the next time he'll pay. i would never expect him to pay for me. we both work so fairs fair. if i was invited out to dinner then i might let the other person pay. only if they were very insistant. sometimes its better to accept the offer than making a big scene about who's paying for what.