Afghan hunger strike in St Patricks.

Ag marbh

There has been some mention of racists on the thread so this might be of interest to some.

"Racists heckle tonight's Afghan solidarity vigil. Where was the Left?"

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76130

HelterSkelter

woody wrote:

Non-Nationals are screwing the country I fought for and my father and his grandfather... I have a right as a Citizen of Ireland to express my disgust at these people destroying my country, I have more time for the "Slab" Murphy than these people....

You fought for the country? Who were you fighting against? I was not aware we were attacked/invaded recently. :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter

Well said Saintly, a sensible post has been a long time coming in this thread.

Ag marbh

woody wrote:

I have served my country and want them deported whats your problem!

What did you do to serve the country?

juslookin

Actually, I am a new member to the board. I am writing from the multicultural paradise of London, where the white British will be a minority by 2010 and "multiculturalism" is not a textbook theory but a reality.

I have watched with interest the rise of a certain "type" in Ireland over the last two decades. There is a type of white Irish pseudo intellectual who studied "racism" from textbooks and almost desired to "find" "racism" in Ireland so that they could "challenge" it. They theorised about "racism" comparable to that of 6th form Socialist Worker readers and 1970s textbooks, but the the phenomenon of mass immigration to Ireland had not yet occoured. Now that it has there is an opportunity to put their readings and simple minded university thesises into action.

I find some Irish "anti racists" naive and racially prejudiced, which is exactly the thing the profess to be against. They are paternalistic and almost as bad as the British missionaries to Africa.

Ag marbh

Fair enough, welcome to the board.

I have no problems with multiculturalism myself

darkman2

Ag marbh wrote:

There has been some mention of racists on the thread so this might be of interest to some.

"Racists heckle tonight's Afghan solidarity vigil. Where was the Left?"

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76130

:mad: Thats not on at all. They should be rounded up by the guards. F**king thugs. I hate the little scum of Dublin making fun of ppl who are obviously in a desperate situation:mad:

Ag marbh

There is talks on Irish right forums of counter demonstrations so by the sound of things it could be potentially violent which would be terrible.

juslookin

Of course you don't have a problem with multiculturalism.

(I'm presuming you are a white skinned left leaning Irish person, who is welcoming the rich ethnic mix of cosmopolitan Ireland.)

You don't have a problem with multiculturalism because you know what it is, and you have no experience of it, yet. Judging by developments in Ireland that's the tragedy that Ireland in it's rush for "progress" faces adopting "multiculturalism" becuase it is politcally correct, not whether it is an appropriate response to the mass immigration and the immigrants it is recieving.

The Irish left look towards the British left. Some in Ireland appear to have decided that "multiculturalism" is the way forward, because they read about it in a textbook or the Guardian.

What they don't know is that while white leftys wish to impose "multiculturalism" on Britain, many "ethnic minority" people in Britain resent multiculturalism and do not want it. For example, the Sikhs and Hindus of Southall London, are having multiculturalims imposed on them, and they don't want it.

Multiculturalism and those who promote it in Ireland arguably pose more of a threat in the next 20 years to Ireland than Oliver Cromwell to Maggie Thatcher did in centuries.

These Afghan men are very likely liars. They are likely not 100% honest men. If they were honest it is likely they would not have got as far as Ireland. They did and lied about what they need to to get to Ireland. Why won't they lie about what they need to to stay ?

The problem is that people like you are simply prepared to take them at face value rather than enter into some robust debate.

68 lost souls

theres nothign racists about throwing them out of the country.

they have no legla right to being here. ASlyum was turned down.

listeniin gto them on the last word yesterday, they were lookign for support but would not give any indication of their back ground, the reasons why they are being turned down. there only argument was rthat they are on a hunger strike and the good peopel should allow them to stay. What er they afraid of, are they wanted criminasl in their country?? if not then why not tell us soem history asbout their case.

its funnt seen the do gooders by their side, these do gooders don't know these peopel or theri back grounds. we let in enough refuges and grant asslyum to those that need it. ecomoic refugees aren't allowed.

under the EU law they shoudl have asked for asslyum at point of entry to the EU we ar eunder no obligation to give thme anything.

i say take them to the hospitla give them fluids. lock them up then when they hav eall being tratye dsend them on a flight home with the american troops that use shannon.

Giblet

juslookin, here is my problem with your post. Every second sentence is you being presumptious. I mean, where do you come up with that crap?

juslookin

In the 80s and 90s muslim fanatics came to Britain pleading for "asylum".

They were "persecuted" for their "beliefs" in their own countries. To send them back woud be to "certain death". They were supported by legal aid lawyers, white bleeding heart liberals, and the usual do gooder crowd.

"Let them stay" they cried ! They are "persecuted for their beliefs". Sending them home they will "face imprisonment" or "certain death".

Nobody asked about their "beliefs". Oh, these poor muslims, it would not only be "inhumane" to send them back, it would be "RACIST".

The doogooders never bothered to consider that since their beliefs were the violent overthrow of their home state govenments, violent jihad for Islam, a worldwide Islamic state, there might be a very good reason why they were persecuted. That was their culture. We should "respect" their culture. That is the strenght of "multiculturalism".

On the 7th of July last year we were given reason to think about it.

It is not "Racist" deport these Afghans out of Ireland

"Racism" is giving them special and preferential treatment.

Irish "anti racists" are in fact "racially prejudiced". Ethnic people are viewed almost like children, innocents. Those whose behavior cannot be innocent, must be caused by Irish people's behaviour towards them, or "institutional racism". They are not given credit for a range of human behavioral traits, which they are as capable of acting upon as anybody else.

juslookin

Giblet wrote:

juslookin, here is my problem with your post. Every second sentence is you being presumptious. I mean, where do you come up with that crap?

Hi Giblet,

The thing is that, without any evidence whatsoever, some people are;

* Accepting who these men say they are, without any proof, without any reasonable questioning what they say.
* Accepting the claims these men make, without any proof, without any reasonable questioning of their claims.
* Accepting a picture of a country they have no knowledge of, without any proof.

This is "presumption"

Some people are "presuming" because these men are "Asylum seekers", they are "persecuted" and "desperate" and "in danger", without actually making any attempt to get the facts.

The truth may be very different.

That presumtuous, so I'm giving taking an equally presumptuos stance in giving an opposite opionion. That's debate.

Giblet

The debate here is the claims, not making remarks about fellow posters and their political leanings to add strength to your point or to give yourself some peace of mind that everyone is just taking everything at face value. Who are you to say that no-one actually reads up on what they are saying, rather they are just reading the local paper and following trends?

darkman2

We must recognise the difficulty the government is in here:


1. Let them stay on grounds of compassion and they risk underming the asylum process

2. Forceably remove them and if nessacary deport them under duress

3. Sit it out and they risk making martars of them


I honestly cant see any other way out other then one of these 3 scenarios.

juslookin

Giblet wrote:

The debate here is the claims, not making remarks about fellow posters and their political leanings to add strength to your point or to give yourself some peace of mind that everyone is just taking everything at face value. Who are you to say that no-one actually reads up on what they are saying, rather they are just reading the local paper and following trends?

It is clear that the majority of people who are suggesting that these men must stay, that they face "persecution" and "danger", and that it is "racist" to deport them despite the rule of the law, know absolutely nothing more about the situation than those who take the view that as the men are not entitled to asylum they cannot be allowed to blackmail the authorities.

Those who suggest they should be deported on the rules of law are basing their opinion on FACTS.

Those who know nothing more about these men than the rest of us, base their reasoning for demanding the men should not be deported, not on any relevant FACTS but on suggestions they are "in danger" and "face persecution" they are basing these opinions on their political leanings and standpoint as they have no other basis.

Therefore their political motivation which they take their standpoint from is particularlly relevant.

colm_mcm

I love the way the HSE had the resources to set up a mobile unit in the church.... while Irish people lie on trolilies going nowhere

Giblet

Are you saying that there is no-one on this thread who believes they should stay but also base their reasoning on fact though?

Also, if these men where "in danger" or if they "faced persecution", why would it come down to their political leanings. I understand what you are saying about having the facts and that these men could be lying, but in a pure humanitarian stand point, it wouldn't nessecerily come down to politics, especially if it WAS true (although I have some doubts myself).

paul666

Let them rot.. us the tax payers wont have to pay their way home then.
LAW IS THE LAW
ask the usa that, we deal with it let them deal with it
we dont go to them extremes

darkman2

juslookin wrote:

It is clear that the majority of people who are suggesting that these men must stay, that they face "persecution" and "danger", and that it is "racist" to deport them despite the rule of the law, know absolutely nothing more about the situation than those who take the view that as the men are not entitled to asylum they cannot be allowed to blackmail the authorities.

Those who suggest they should be deported on the rules of law are basing their opinion on FACTS.




Those who know nothing more about these men than the rest of us, base their reasoning for demanding the men should not be deported, not on any relevant FACTS but on suggestions they are "in danger" and "face persecution" they are basing these opinions on their political leanings and standpoint as they have no other basis.

Therefore their political motivation which they take their standpoint from is particularlly relevant.

I would just like to ask a question. Do you realise if one of these guys dies tonight or tomorrow or whenever that will probrably make headlines across Europe. They gave in, in Belguim but as such we didnt hear much about it. I dont think it would look very good for the country:(

paul666

If they did that in anywhere but Ireland but in europe id say they would be in the same situation as they are in now.

darkman2

paul666 wrote:

If they did that in anywhere but Ireland but in europe id say they would be in the same situation as they are in now.

Possibly but European governments generally are far more left wing then ours and as such are more likely to just let them stay.

juslookin

Of the 3 outcomes detailed above, the Irish governement need to, where they are legally within their rights, enter the church and by force if nessasary remove the any of these men who have had all their legal rights and procedures examined and found to have no right to be in Ireland.

There should be no "compassion".

Some Irish people have, and continue to be, incredibly naive about immigration.

If they cave in, and are "compassionate", men like these will be down the nearest internet cafe in Dublin, hotmailing their mates not just about what lies they need to say to get into Ireland, but what action will work if they face deportation. (Just like some Nigerians were email their freinds advising them to come on holiday to Ireland when they were 8 and a half months pregnant).

Is that "Racism".

This is Britain 2002 for you. That's Ireland 2007 to you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2493123.stm

If the Irish government cave in, they will be added to the "menu" in the above travel agents.

paul666

juslookin wrote:

Of the 3 outcomes detailed above, the Irish governement need to, where they are legally within their rights, enter the church and by force if nessasary remove the any of these men who have had all their legal rights and procedures examined and found to have no right to be in Ireland.

There should be no "compassion".

Some Irish people have, and continue to be, incredibly naive about immigration.

If they cave in, and are "compassionate", men like these will be down the nearest internet cafe in Dublin, hotmailing their mates not just about what lies they need to say to get into Ireland, but what action will work if they face deportation. (Just like some Nigerians were email their freinds advising them to come on holiday to Ireland when they were 8 and a half months pregnant).

Is that "Racism".

This is Britain 2002 for you. That's Ireland 2007 to you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2493123.stm

If the Irish government cave in, they will be added to the "menu" in the above travel agents.

Yes But i wish our government would follow suit, will they i hope, but probably wont

darkman2

juslookin wrote:

Of the 3 outcomes detailed above, the Irish governement need to, where they are legally within their rights, enter the church and by force if nessasary remove the any of these men who have had all their legal rights and procedures examined and found to have no right to be in Ireland.

There should be no "compassion".

Some Irish people have, and continue to be, incredibly naive about immigration.

If they cave in, and are "compassionate", men like these will be down the nearest internet cafe in Dublin, hotmailing their mates not just about what lies they need to say to get into Ireland, but what action will work if they face deportation. (Just like some Nigerians were email their freinds advising them to come on holiday to Ireland when they were 8 and a half months pregnant).

Is that "Racism".

This is Britain 2002 for you. That's Ireland 2007 to you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2493123.stm

If the Irish government cave in, they will be added to the "menu" in the above travel agents.

I want to put this in bold just so I can make this point clear:

There are believed to be 14 known Al Quieda members in Dublin. If any of these men die we risk making them martars. Imagine if that was broadcast throughout Europe. There is a security implication here. Ireland should be keeping its head down, not raising it.

How do you propose we get over that?

juslookin

darkman2 wrote:

I would just like to ask a question. Do you realise if one of these guys dies tonight or tomorrow or whenever that will probrably make headlines across Europe. They gave in, in Belguim but as such we didnt hear much about it. I dont think it would look very good for the country:(

This would of course be a tragedy, for the man, and his family friends and loved ones. I'd be sorry for his death. It's terrible that I should be so dispassionate and cold hearted, and perhaps even soulless.

In your opinion it might not look good for the country and might make headlines across Europe.

What's the alternative ?

We live in a global village. The internet provides and international media network. If the Irish government cave in it will make headlines across headlines across this world media. "If you can get into Ireland, they can't get you out".

The fact is, that the Irish don't have a clue who is coming to their country. Irish immigration in all likelyhood can't tell a Somalian from an Eritrean, a Pashtun from an Afghan, an Pakistani from a Sri Lankan. So give em any - pre-prepared sob story - and you're away.

It's a global industry. That needs to be understood.

Don't think that Residents Against Racism understand that.

juslookin

darkman2 wrote:

I want to put this in bold just so I can make this point clear:

There are believed to be 14 known Al Quieda members in Dublin. If any of these men die we risk making them martars. Imagine if that was broadcast throughout Europe. There is a security implication here. Ireland should be keeping its head down, not raising it.

How do you propose we get over that?

If they are really Al Quaeda (and do they have membership cards?), they don't give a flying f**K about these men more than anybody else. They won't give a **** about them.

People in their home country won't consider them martyrs, they'll consider them chancers who gave it their best shot and had their bluff called. Legal immigrants and legal asylum seekers in Ireland won't consider them martyrs, on one hand they might protest for them but on the other they might consider that they are ****ing it up for the people who were genuine and went through the proper channels.

The only people who will consider them martyrs will be misguided lefty morons, white Irish of course, who can't see that there has to be some limit or management of immigration because 140 million nigerians into a small northern european country of 5 million does not fit.

All Ireland has to do about keeping its head down is simply not to get involved in international wars with Muslim countries, like Scandinavia. And if Ireland wants to escape Islamic extremism, then Ireland needs to make it clear that it is not a multicultural country but an integrationist country. Multiculturalism fosters islamic extremism, because nobody is allowed to say it might be wrong.

darkman2

juslookin wrote:

If they are really Al Quaeda, they don't give a flying f**K about these men more than anybody else. They won't give a **** about them.

People in their home country will consider them martyrs. Legal immigrants and legal asylum seekers in Ireland won't consider them martyrs. The only people who will consider them martyrs will be misguided lefty morons, white Irish of course, who can't see that there has to be some limit or management of immigration because 140 million nigerians into a small northern european country of 5 million does not fit.
.
All Ireland has to do about keeping its head down is simply not to get involved in international wars with Muslim countries, like Scandinavia.

OK, take it easy. Im not arguing with you:) Im just saying it might attract a form of attention we dont want. Thats all. I think its a valid point

juslookin

darkman2 wrote:

OK, take it easy. Im not arguing with you:) Im just saying it might attract a form of attention we dont want. Thats all. I think its a valid point

Sure Darkman, if my writing comes across in the wrong way apologies.

The UK has a problem with Islamic extremism for several reasons;

They fostered it and nurtured it, allowed it to become acceptable, "respected" these peoples beliefs and behavior rather than challenging it, allowed our cities to become Islamic enclaves, where certain beliefs and behavior was allowed to become normalised and normal rules ceased to apply.

Rather than request that people integrate, allow them to and promote them in identifying with the "old country" rather than with Britain.

The Iraq war.

Put any two of the the three together. Boom.

Lesson to Ireland. Don't ask people to become Irish, then they won't. And if you don't , don't suddenly expect them to be loyal to you or empathetic to their "countrymen".

Badly Drunk Boy

Ag marbh wrote:

This will be my last reply and will only be posting with updates and hopefully all the support will be successful.

I'm fairly late to this thread. (And I may have missed some stuff).


As I see it, these asylum seekers don't want to die in Afghanistan (according to them).
They obviously want to die in Ireland since that's what they're planning (by tarvation.). And the boyos in the worst condition get into hospital wards. (While Irish people are on trolleys.)

PSYCH!!!!