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Afghan hunger strike in St Patricks.

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    #572
    Saintly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭Saintly


    dathi1 wrote:
    I've been following the situation in Afghanistan since the Soviet Invasion by Brezhnev. The FACTS are Afghanistan is like most other war torn countries with its particular problems. The Taliban are well gone and only making a small comeback in the south.

    I certainly wouldn't write off the Taliban just yet - see the overnight activity for a start. The Taliban continue to have strong support from the Pashtun communities on both sides of the Afghan/Pakistan border. Most of the Taliban were of Pashtun origin and continue to have strong support - remember that Pakistan has always been sympathetic to the Taliban (one of, I think 3 or 4 coutries to ever recognise them in power) The border region is a breeding ground for fundamentalist/hardline activity. Like the Balkans, Rwanda etc all those ethnic tensions will continue to simmer and flare. Who knows what will happen? Afghanistan has a long history of conflict and I doubt it will end anytime soon.

    The Northern alliance who have there own version of suppression control most of the ministries in Kabul with the help of the US and Co.

    Agree 100% - and weren't they presented as poster boys of democracy during the initial US strikes?!

    These people should have seeked economic asylum in the countries that tore their country apart in the first place. Russia (fat chance) is nearer to Afghanistan than Ireland is. Where are these people’s women and children????????? Yes…Afghanistan.

    I presume if you have to leave your own country for good, you think about the life that you want and you opt for where you think will be the best option. There are plenty of Afghan asylum seekers all over the world. They don't have to seek asylum in the countries closest to them. I don't personally know if these people have either women or children in Afghanistan - I would guess some do. I think around 8 are just 16 and 17.
    If we apply the standard that suicidal economic refugees (which I think these are) can claim asylum by blackmail then we end up like Belgium.

    What's so bad about Belgium?! They survived, didn't have a mass influx. It's old news over there now. Some of the more hysterical poster in this thread appear to believe that Ireland will be flooded with asylum seekers in the aftermath of this affair. That didn't happen in Belgium. I agree that the men should not able to manipulate the system this way, however if the worst case scenario occurs and they do, the world as we know it will not cave in.

    Just my perspective.
    Saintly.


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    #573
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    There are believed to be 14 known Al Quieda members in Dublin. If any of these men die we risk making them martars.

    So, the country should cower in case it offends terrorists which may, or may not, be here.

    See, the problem is that terrorism is at it's most effective when you put fear into people and governments. So, even if an Al-Qaeda never set foot in Ireland, they're winning by making people think the way you're thinking.


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    #574
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    Arg Margh is finally showing themselves up.

    I think there is a very good reason that there are armies and that people learn how to kill others. It's not nice, and you might not like it, but it is nessasary and is a fact of life. Perhaps you might like your GPO flying a swastikas, or maybe a nice Union Jack ?

    Of course, while this violent lifestyle it is not admirable in Woody, it is admirable in our Afghan friends.

    "They'll be sent to Guantanamo". FFS ! Get a grip. Like the Nigerians who will be stoned to death or have their clitorises cut off. It's like Dubliners in America saying don't send me back sure the SAS or the RA or Maggie Thatcher will get me. Wise up FFS ! Course those dumb yanks (RACISM) will say oh gee, I've seen the film with Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford, course we won't send you back.

    Wake up Ireland !


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    #575
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    In all the years of "The Troubles", people "in danger" (however they got themselves into that danger, and whoever it was from), were able to pack the car, drive 50 miles and dissapear forever into a new life in a country of 3 million leaving their old one behind forever.

    But of course any supposed Asylum seeker from a country of 120 million or 30 million who makes it as far as Ireland will be in mortal danger if they go back to their own country. Perhaps there is a big neon arrow above their head "Its Them" ?

    You have people claiming that if they go back to a somewhat underdeveloped country (no computer records etc) of over a 100 million they will have their clitoris cut off or be stoned to death.

    Yet across the Irish sea in a small area the size of an Irish county where 8/9/10 million live in one of the most sophisticated countries in the world where your postcode (which you don't have in Ireland) can tell anything about you, there are maybe 1 million people who have simply dissapeared.

    Some of the people claiming persecution know as much about it as you because the saw it on the same RTE TV programme or read about it in the same irish newspaper. But because they claim to be from a certain country, and have darker skin than you, you'll take it all at face value, for fear somebody might think you are a "racist".

    Britain has lost complete control of its borders. Ireland will be next. Some of these people don't see Ireland as a separate state. It's just another part of the UK where the same scams work. Somebody tell me please, what is with the Africans on the ferries between Dublin and Holyhead. Are they going on holiday, or are they just popping over for a little bit of "business".

    The Irish are totally niave about what is going on and the scale of what is an "industry"


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    #576
    Ag marbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Ag marbh


    juslookin wrote:
    Arg Margh is finally showing themselves up.

    I think there is a very good reason that there are armies and that people learn how to kill others. It's not nice, and you might not like it, but it is nessasary and is a fact of life. Perhaps you might like your GPO flying a swastikas, or maybe a nice Union Jack ?

    Of course, while this violent lifestyle it is not admirable in Woody, it is admirable in our Afghan friends.

    "They'll be sent to Guantanamo". FFS ! Get a grip. Like the Nigerians who will be stoned to death or have their clitorises cut off. It's like Dubliners in America saying don't send me back sure the SAS or the RA or Maggie Thatcher will get me. Wise up FFS ! Course those dumb yanks (RACISM) will say oh gee, I've seen the film with Brad Pitt and Harrison Ford, course we won't send you back.

    Id rather see it fly no flags actually.

    You clearly dont understand the position these men will be in when they are sent back to Afhganastan if you're comparing Irish people in America fearing the 'RA' or 'Maggie'. You then go on to get aggressive which leads me to believe you're replies are motivated by nothing but rage.

    Go on, tell us your story. What happened between you and a foreign person that makes you dislike them and tar them all with the same brush?


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    #577
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Actualy he has a valid point. There's no proof that any harm will come to them that they have been willing to share. Some of them have said they were Taliban so are they afraid to go back to the people they worked for or is it that they fear reprisals for the things they have done? We don't know and probably won't find out. But it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is you can't break the law simply because you feel you can. It doesn't matter what reason you did it, what applies to one applies to all.


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    #578
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    woody wrote:
    His Crap as you call it is fact not fable and was a very clear cut explanation...

    No, he provided nothing, he said "You don't know about this and that" a very general sweeping term, hardly hard facts. Agreeing with him doesn't make it facts.


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    #579
    Ag marbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Ag marbh


    jomanji wrote:
    Actualy he has a valid point. There's no proof that any harm will come to them that they have been willing to share. Some of them have said they were Taliban so are they afraid to go back to the people they worked for or is it that they fear reprisals for the things they have done? We don't know and probably won't find out. But it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is you can't break the law simply because you feel you can. It doesn't matter what reason you did it, what applies to one applies to all.

    Take a look at the current condition of the country. The men face danger regardless the background they have.


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    #580
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    Ag marbh wrote:
    Id rather see it fly no flags actually.

    You clearly dont understand the position these men will be in when they are sent back to Afhganastan if you're comparing Irish people in America fearing the 'RA' or 'Maggie'. You then go on to get aggressive which leads me to believe you're replies are motivated by nothing but rage.

    Go on, tell us your story. What happened between you and a foreign person that makes you dislike them and tar them all with the same brush?

    At this stage you are becoming tiresome! You do not have the faintest idea what is going on outside of Dublin because if you did you would have a different standpoint.

    Get this straight; the protesters are, by their own religious beliefs, desecrating a Protestant Cathedral in a bid to blackmail our government into letting them stay here. The must go through due process and will be assesed according to regulations. They are queue jumping which is not fair on GENUINE asylum seekers, whoever they may be.

    We are an island and these people have, in their own words, travelled throung many countries to get here. Some have been here for quite a time and have been granted asylum. That is how wasps set up their nests. The big one goes travelling and when a suitable place is found the rest follow.

    Would you try to explain clearly with a minumum of 100 words why these people should be allowed to stay. No bull$hit just logic.

    Where are these people's womenfolk?


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    #581
    TheTruthFairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭TheTruthFairy


    Ag marbh wrote:
    You clearly dont understand the position these men will be in when they are sent back to Afhganastan

    Why on earth do you assume that anyone opposed to this hunger strike is ignorant of foreign affairs?

    As far as I see it, a group of far-left idiots are using these men as an excuse to wave their anti-war placards about again. I think it is SICK to encourage, support or reward such a self-destructive act. The hype about it in indymedia is just sickening to read. All that crowd would just as quickly support someone slashing their wrists as well if it meant they got to shout about the evil state.

    This Asylum for all nonsense - sorry but thats going to work. In reality, the best thing to do is to think long term and work towards the democratic and economic development of these countries.
    Ag marbh wrote:
    Go on, tell us your story. What happened between you and a foreign person that makes you dislike them and tar them all with the same brush?

    Ah, the racist card. How utterly childish.


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    #582
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    Ag marbh wrote:
    Take a look at the current condition of the country. The men face danger regardless the background they have.

    Care to elaborate?

    Break the law here and you could also find yourself in danger.


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    #583
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    Ag marbh wrote:
    Id rather see it fly no flags actually.

    You clearly dont understand the position these men will be in when they are sent back to Afhganastan if you're comparing Irish people in America fearing the 'RA' or 'Maggie'. You then go on to get aggressive which leads me to believe you're replies are motivated by nothing but rage.

    Go on, tell us your story. What happened between you and a foreign person that makes you dislike them and tar them all with the same brush?

    Ag Marbh,

    Sorry mate, you are 12 arent you ? Maybe 13 year old. Or maybe you are simply one of the grown adults in ireland who is still coming to terms with the insular little country joinign the big boys and trying to make sense of it, and a little too scared to treat anyone of a different colour exactly the same, in case, when it is a negative situation you might be being racist, which you read all about at university.

    You'd rather not a flag ? Well, perhaps you might consider that you won't have a computer either, or a nice warm house, and that you might be scrabbling to survive on a cabbage patch, who knows, overseen by some nice English landlord. You are lucky to have a flag, and instead of this "no borders" crap, we should be supporting borders and self determination for others too, makign the world a stable and safe place where there is no need for people to be refugees.

    You clearly dont understand the position these men face in Afghanistan ? Yep that's right, I don't. All I have to go on is what they CLAIM to say motivated by what they WANT to achieve. Do you have some special inside indormation from Afghanistan you'd like to share with us ? Have you been to Afghanistan ? Do you have anyone with an independent information you would like to show to us. These men don't count, their account of Afghanistan is biased by a need to show that they need to stay in Ireland.

    In the 70s/80s/90s Irish pulled every scam in the book to stay in America. Why are these Afghans different, more honest, more noble, and more in danger ?

    What did I say about the Irish being naive and 20 years behind the UK in understanding the finer points of "community relations". (Racism is a stupid meaningless word).

    Argh is accusing me of prejudice and bigotry. We used to have "racial prejudice" and "racial bigotry". Now we have RAAAACCCIIIIISMSMSMSMM!"!!!

    "Argh" I'm motivated by despair at the stupidity and naivity of some, too many, Irish people.


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    #584
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    juslookin wrote:
    "Argh" I'm motivated by despair at the stupidity and naivity of some, too many, Irish people.

    Yes Irish people. Stop with this ****, it's tiring to look at. It doesn't add anything to a debate except to make you look bitter.


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    #585
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    Where are the womenfollk ? Good points

    It's dangerous to think "Its only a 20 of them, what harm will letting 20 stay do".

    Legally, the person claiming asylum can bring in their dependents, this can include parents, parents in law, wife, children, plus others is they can "prove" or rather cannot be disproved.

    Some people do not realise this.

    Plenty of situations where there is one "Asylum Seeker" with seven or eight people who get into the country on his asylum card.


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    #586
    TheTruthFairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭TheTruthFairy


    juslookin wrote:
    Legally, the person claiming asylum can bring in their dependents, this can include parents, parents in law, wife, children, plus others is they can "prove" or rather cannot be disproved.

    Some people do not realise this.

    Plenty of situations where there is one "Asylum Seeker" with seven or eight people who get into the country on his asylum card.

    Yes, and that can be due to the fact that if a person is in danger and flees the country their family will then become targets.


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    #587
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    Giblet wrote:
    Yes Irish people. Stop with this ****, it's tiring to look at. It doesn't add anything to a debate except to make you look bitter.

    No, inform and educate yourselfs on the reality of the situation, and the implications for your country.

    Act on FACT and the rule of LAW.

    Instead of operating on uninformed student politics of "racism" and "all black people are oppressed..." 70s textbooks


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    #588
    solskjaer20
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭solskjaer20


    Give them asylum.


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    #589
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    TheTruthFairy wrote:
    Yes, and that can be due to the fact that if a person is in danger and flees the country their family will then become targets.

    So they flee the country for their own safety and put the family in peril? That seems strange. If I had to flee I would certainly bring my family along. What ever happened to "women and children first"?

    If these men had a just case there would be no doubts about their situation. I think the authorities will be asking them, among many other questions, how they got here (how many countries the applied to for asylum) in the first place and valid reasons why they fled their country.


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    #590
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    TheTruthFairy wrote:
    Yes, and that can be due to the fact that if a person is in danger and flees the country their family will then become targets.

    Will ? You know this for certain do you ?

    The asylum system is being abused on an industrial scale. This dependents is one route to abuse it. The "Irish mothers" loophole was abused on an industrial scale until it was closed. When current asylum regulations are changed, crooked lawyers paid by you the tax payer will find another way of profiting from it. In the UK, children are being passed around between familys to defraud the state on such a scale that it is now being proposed that they should be fingerprinted.

    What have Victoria Clibie, Damilola Taylor and Toni-Ann Byfield got in common. What did their tragic deaths expose about the dark underbelly of the UK ?

    Do you know that in modern day Britain there is a sophiticated slave trade, trafficing children from Africa to be used as domestic slaves (am I allowed to say Nigerians).

    Here is one example of the many truths about "Afghan Asylum Seekers" in the UK.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2493123.stm

    There are hundreds of thousands more examples.

    Irish bleeding hearts would rather ignore such inconvenient but relevant. information and scream "racism" so loud so that they can't hear what anybody else might have to offer, even it it may be very important or relevant.

    Crazy **** is being allowed to happen, becuase it would be "racist" to question it.

    Ask yourself a question. If you were granted political asylum because of your beliefs, what would you do ?

    Be grateful for your freedom and use it and the plenty of free resouces available to you in your new home to bring to international attention the injustices in your homeland and campaign for change.

    Or sit around in a cafe chewing khat, smoking weed, watching your favourite home TV programmes on satellite TV and generally "chillin" on handouts ?

    The more piss takers and chancers you let in, the worse you are making it for the genuine. You'll pay for it in the future. Perhaps there will be a day when people will say, why the **** did Bobby Sands or Ian Paisley bother ?


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    #591
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    juslookin wrote:
    Perhaps there will be a day when people will say, why the **** did Bobby Sands or Ian Paisley bother ?

    why did they bother what? I'm not trying to antagonise you, I just don't understand the point you're making, sorry.


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    #592
    juslookin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭juslookin


    tbh wrote:
    why did they bother what? I'm not trying to antagonise you, I just don't understand the point you're making, sorry.

    You're not !

    The point is, in the history of the country, some people went to extremes to preserve or protect a culture or beliefs or way of life.

    And it may come to pass in years to come that to some extent the extremes they went to may have been for nothing.


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    #593
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    gotcha.


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    #594
    AngryAnderson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭AngryAnderson


    Would love to accuse juslookin of being racist, would love to slate him/her of being a bigot - but I agree. If we can't have legitimate concerns about the state of immigration in this country without being branded a racist by some foaming-at-the-mouth PC bully... well, then this country is going down the swanny like the UK before it. It won't destroy our country but it'll suck the new lease of life our economy has had breathed into it pretty quickly.


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    #595
    woody
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭woody


    juslookin wrote:
    Will ? You know this for certain do you ?

    The asylum system is being abused on an industrial scale. This dependents is one route to abuse it. The "Irish mothers" loophole was abused on an industrial scale until it was closed. When current asylum regulations are changed, crooked lawyers paid by you the tax payer will find another way of profiting from it. In the UK, children are being passed around between familys to defraud the state on such a scale that it is now being proposed that they should be fingerprinted.

    What have Victoria Clibie, Damilola Taylor and Toni-Ann Byfield got in common. What did their tragic deaths expose about the dark underbelly of the UK ?

    Do you know that in modern day Britain there is a sophiticated slave trade, trafficing children from Africa to be used as domestic slaves (am I allowed to say Nigerians).

    Here is one example of the many truths about "Afghan Asylum Seekers" in the UK.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2493123.stm

    There are hundreds of thousands more examples.

    Irish bleeding hearts would rather ignore such inconvenient but relevant. information and scream "racism" so loud so that they can't hear what anybody else might have to offer, even it it may be very important or relevant.

    Crazy **** is being allowed to happen, becuase it would be "racist" to question it.

    Ask yourself a question. If you were granted political asylum because of your beliefs, what would you do ?

    Be grateful for your freedom and use it and the plenty of free resouces available to you in your new home to bring to international attention the injustices in your homeland and campaign for change.

    Or sit around in a cafe chewing khat, smoking weed, watching your favourite home TV programmes on satellite TV and generally "chillin" on handouts ?

    The more piss takers and chancers you let in, the worse you are making it for the genuine. You'll pay for it in the future. Perhaps there will be a day when people will say, why the **** did Bobby Sands or Ian Paisley bother ?


    Very Very True but the PC Brigade again would disagree as they dont live on this planet


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    #596
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    AngryAnderson wrote:
    Would love to accuse juslookin of being racist, would love to slate him/her of being a bigot - but I agree. If we can't have legitimate concerns about the state of immigration in this country without being branded a racist by some foaming-at-the-mouth PC bully... well, then this country is going down the swanny like the UK before it. It won't destroy our country but it'll suck the new lease of life our economy has had breathed into it pretty quickly.

    well we would be able to create this 'new lease of life in our economy' without cheap foreign (illegal)labour, so you might not be racist but you are willfuling ignorant.:rolleyes:


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    #597
    woody
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭woody


    Giblet wrote:
    No, he provided nothing, he said "You don't know about this and that" a very general sweeping term, hardly hard facts. Agreeing with him doesn't make it facts.

    But it is clear cut facts, by the Immigration problem getting worse, we will then get an upsurge of the extreme right and with just cause...

    Ten years ago I would have said that the likes of the BNP and Combat 18 were scum, now I see there legitamacy and the reason why the exist.

    These people are the racists, they do not belong here, they have no right to be here, they forced themselves on us and we should put them in a detention camp and keep them there until they are removed...

    If they die so be it but it is not my problem or Irelands problem....

    Every Nigerian that has entered Ireland has been to rip it off, the same for Romanians and for most other eastern europeans and Asians....

    We are a country of 4 Million and if this keeps up our Social,Ecomonic and whole fabric of irish society will be destroyed....


    I propose Prison camps for them no more no less,keep them away from society as it will result in deaths and civil unrest and when that happens the Nazi's will emerge from the wood work and thrive on it...

    If we dont stop now we are F*cked and this hopefully will show in the next election


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    #598
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    lostexpectation wrote:
    well we would be able to create this 'new lease of life in our economy' without cheap foreign (illegal)labour, so you might not be racist but you are willfuling ignorant.:rolleyes:

    Be careful who you call ignorant. All cheap foreign labour isn't illegal. In fact it might be considered racist of you to assume as much :eek:


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    #599
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    woody wrote:
    But it is clear cut facts, by the Immigration problem getting worse, we will then get an upsurge of the extreme right and with just cause...

    Ten years ago I would have said that the likes of the BNP and Combat 18 were scum, now I see there legitamacy and the reason why the exist.

    These people are the racists, they do not belong here, they have no right to be here, they forced themselves on us and we should put them in a detention camp and keep them there until they are removed...

    If they die so be it but it is not my problem or Irelands problem....

    Every Nigerian that has entered Ireland has been to rip it off, the same for Romanians and for most other eastern europeans and Asians....

    We are a country of 4 Million and if this keeps up our Social,Ecomonic and whole fabric of irish society will be destroyed....


    I propose Prison camps for them no more no less,keep them away from society as it will result in deaths and civil unrest and when that happens the Nazi's will emerge from the wood work and thrive on it...

    If we dont stop now we are F*cked and this hopefully will show in the next election
    Can someone ban this chap? He's bloody wierding me out with his racist crap..


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    #600
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    woody wrote:
    an upsurge of the extreme right and with just cause...

    Ten years ago I would have said that the likes of the BNP and Combat 18 were scum, now I see there legitamacy and the reason why the exist.

    they have no right to be here, they forced themselves on us and we should put them in a detention camp and keep them there until they are removed...

    If they die so be it but it is not my problem or Irelands problem....

    Every Nigerian that has entered Ireland has been to rip it off, the same for Romanians and for most other eastern europeans and Asians....


    I propose Prison camps for them no more no less,keep them away from society as it will result in deaths and civil unrest and when that happens the Nazi's will emerge from the wood work and thrive on it...

    you've put yourself nicely into context there woody.


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    #601
    woody
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭woody


    DaveMcG wrote:
    Can someone ban this chap? He's bloody wierding me out with his racist crap..

    Racist eh no, Fact yes and Pal watch your mouth my words are off a concerned taxpayer and citizen.. I will not bow to PC or Liberals....I have the right of Freedom of speech and if you are getting weirded out seek medical help then !


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