Afghan hunger strike in St Patricks.

Heinrich

hellboy99 wrote:

too right, at this stage they would of been removed by force or killed.

the hunger strikers are now threatening to throw themselves off a balcony in the cathedral :rolleyes: . first it was starve themselves to death, then it was the old razor blade job, then hanging... sounds to me as if they won't go through with killing themselves at all.
have they not got it by now, McDowell isn't backing down.

Maybe they will, in the tradition of their homeland, stone themselves to death.

According to the news they are going back to the no water system!

crosstownk

RAR should just keep their noses out of it. This has absolutely nothing to do with racism.

No matter how much these people want asylum they are going about it the wrong way. Last I knew it was the country where asylum is being sought that sets the law regulations regarding an asylum application - not the asylum seekers.

All that aside, nobody wants anyone to die in this incident except, maybe, for the guys in the cathedral who are prepared to commit suicide. It's a difficult situation but should Ireland make a point at the expense of anothers life?

Oh yes - a difficult situation.

zuma

Im not a medical expert but after 5 days without food and in some cases almost no water shouldnt some of them be pretty much dead now?

Or have the hospitals, where the ambulances have been taking them, given them saline drips and so undermining this no water protest?

They must realise that this will end in one of 2 ways....they kill themselves or give up as there isnt a hope of their demands becoming reality!

Oh when they are extracted from the Cathedral they must realise that after telling Pat Kenny that they came to Ireland through Dover that a one way ticket to the UK awaits them in the not too distant future....and from there mabye Italy.....Turkey until they return home.

New_Departure06

Are they actually still letting hunger-strikers back into the church AFTER returning from hospital? Ludicrous!

DublinWriter

zuma wrote:

Im not medical expert but after 5 days without food and in some cases almost no water shouldnt some of the be pretty much dead now?

It's a medical fact that you can go for weeks without food (NI hunger strikers) but only a couple of days without water.

The initial bunch of strikers that were refusing food *and* water had to be abmulanced out after a few days and put on a drip in St. Vincents.

Despite all of that, how desperate must you be to want to hang yourself from the bellfry of St.Patricks rather than return to your home country?

Those who state that these people are just economic immigrants would do well to stay tuned over the next few days. I think that there will be at least one death over the weekend.

Terry

jhegarty wrote:

so

usa = bad
becuase they put the taliban in power

and

usa = bad
because they removed the taliban

u.s.a. = bad because they had no business interfering the first or second time.
they seem to be under the misguided belief that they are the worlds police and that their way is the only way.
they went against the u.n. in their invasion of afghanistan and iraq, thus undermining the organisation that is possibly the closest thing we have to a world police. (i'm watching south park, so that may be the reason behind the over use of the term "world police")
we, as a country, rose against our oppressors and gained our independence. there are plenty more countries that have done the same. what give the u.s. the right to invade any country whose policies they disagree with?
if the people of afghanistan wanted to get rid of the taliban so bnadly (and the same applies to iraq) they should have risen up and taken a stand against said regime. they seem to have plenty of weapons available to them. attacks on u.s. and british soldiers are a testament to that. (remember the wedding that was bombed by the u.s. after the attendees fired their guns in the air in celebration)

crosstownk

DublinWriter wrote:

I think that there will be at least one death over the weekend.

Sadly, I think you may be right.

Terry

Heinrich wrote:

So now they are refusing water. Won't be long now. Unless the Gardai do the humane act of storming the place and putting the survivors into custody, awaiting deportation. That would depend on the church authorities.

I see that the RaR woman is still bulls*iting.

is that the woman who was on the last word earlier today.
the presenter (can't think of his name) asked her if she could vouch for the people involved and if she knew them personally and their backgrounds etc.
her answer was that she has known one of them since last november. she then proceeded to change the subject.

their spokesman was also on the last word. he stated that they wanted to stay here because Ireland was such a nice country and the people were so nice.
that brings up two questions.
1. if the people of Ireland have been so nice to him, why the need for RaR?
2. if Ireland is such a good place, why not go through the proper channels in order to gain asylum?

cuckoo

crosstownk wrote:

RAR should just keep their noses out of it. This has absolutely nothing to do with racism.

RAR will stay at St Patrick's as long as the cameras and reporters remain.

Whatever about the ins and outs of the Afghani's asylum claims, or their hunger strike, this whole situation is turning into a sideshow for various groups.

I was reading a thread about it over on indymedia (i know, i know - but before anyone wants to jump on me for that, hello, you're reading AH on boards), and someone had gleefully posted that the newswire was so busy, it hadn't been that busy since the anti-war stuff in 2003 and how great that was. It's the most excitement the 'left' have had for ages.

Speculating here - but i think the presence of crowds of supporters and the massed cameras outside are making it more likely that the men inside the cathedral won't come off the hunger strike, they wouldn't want to let down their 'fans'.

skywalker

New_Departure06 wrote:

Are they actually still letting hunger-strikers back into the church AFTER returning from hospital? Ludicrous!

That struck me too. Are the guards returning them to the cathedral?

juslookin

DublinWriter wrote:

1 - Those who state that these people are just economic immigrants would do well to stay tuned over the next few days. I think that there will be at least one death over the weekend.

2 - Despite all of that, how desperate must you be to want to hang yourself from the bellfry of St.Patricks rather than return to your home country?

1 - You have a point. Amongst the 41 individuals there are 41 stories and 41 motivations. It's quite possible that there are a mixture of chancers and the genuine. (And it's quite possible, like society in general the chancers will get a free ride off the genuine. Wouldn't be a shame for a genuine to die only to get a chancer what they are looking for.) Perhaps all 41 men should be identified and their stories should be made public. They have been given several opportunities so far. Perhaps the media picked the "wrong" spokespeople.

2 - Surely, Despite all of that how desperate must you CLAIM to be to THREATEN that you want to hang yourself from the bellfry of St Patricks than be returned to the country you have CLAIMED was where you came from.

New_Departure06

If 1 of them does die as claimed will happen by a previous poster then it won't be the Irish State that has killed them. It will have been a suicide. We cannot accept blackmail. Send in the Gardai.

liamo

I think what's really getting up people's noses is the attitude of these idiots.

They're not demanding that they should not be deported.
They're not demanding that they should not be subject to the outcome of the country's processes.
They're demanding that they should not not even be subject to the process itself!

And what are they going to do if we don't accede to their outrageous demands? They're going to remove themselves from the equation. Kudos for thinking this one though, guys!

This is a self-resolving non-crisis.

daveydub

It's very easy for this issue to become politicized as with most things in this country. But there is one very simple fact that remains, no matter where you come from on this issue and that is that these individuals are trying to blackmail the Irish people. Most of them have not reached the end of the asylum process and therefore do not have any legitimate reason to protest. I could perhaps understand this if they had all reached the end of the line and felt they had nothing else left to do, except threaten the Irish people with suicide!
It is sad and pathetic that they feel they have to do this. To expect our government and asylum process to treat them any differently, to the other thousands of people applying for asylum in our country, is disrespectful and downright stupid! Why should 40 Afghanis be treated differently to any other nationality? I am glad their cause is met with little sympathy from Irish people. I have compassion and understanding but these men are putting the cart before the horse, as it were.

If there is any criticism to be made of the asylum process it is that it shouldn't take years for people to await the final decision. There should be a 2 or 3 month target, for the whole asylum process to take its course, appeals included and then those who have not met the criteria be deported.

mike65

If they were hoping to elicit some cheap sentiment among the Irish population they've failed miserably (not that boards is a bellwether site well it is but the rest of the country does'nt know it!)

Mike.

johnnyrotten

Trespassers should be prosecuted

Muggy Dev

Hagar wrote:

Nice first post...

.....not so horrible then,Hagar.

thebaz

Gegerty wrote:

So what if they're going on hunger strike. I really couldn't give a sh!t. People go on hunger strike all the time, its a good way of getting your case heard. These people have nothing to lose, are uneducated and brought up in a violent society. They're still entitled to a fair trial. As for 2 million Afghans, well if 2 million people seek asylum and 2 million people are entitled to Asylum then yes they should all be let in. f*ck all the ignorant, narrow minded, racist, Celtic loving, muck raking Irish people out to make room for them.

Since the U.S. is tightening there borders, and they invaded Afghanistan , great idea lets open our border and let every refugee entry, whats more lets pay them all social welfare and give them all free housing -- whilst we can't even house some of our own citizens , or provide adequate health services . Your havin a laugh for sure.

Rb

I'm amazed people are still supporting these idiots, their threatening behaviour has now stepped up a notch and yet people still think "oh, the poor people". They have to be made an example of.

constitutionus

i think people would have more sympathy if there wasnt such endemic fraud going on in the asylum system. take the 2004 stats for example only 6.2% of candidates were proven to have a case for asylum under the system we have. i know in any system you'll always have chancers but to have a failour rate of 93.8% is compleatly nuts, yet no one talks about this. when you look at a figure like that the only conclusions you get are either 1. the system is endemically racist and corrupt or 2. the vast majority arent asylum seekers but backdoor immigrants. ill leave it to you guys to make up your own mind (the figures are from the central statistics office by the way,2004 annual figures in the crime and justice section)

the sad thing is these guys may have a case, i mean afghanistan isnt exactly stable is it. but by circumventing the system theyve shot themselves in the foot. they went throught the process and failed, appealed and failed and then took this action which puts the one person they could have appealed to to stay here in an untenable situation which is micheal macdowel.
i cant see how he can grant them aslyum now without looking compromised, and worse it seems to be spinning out of control

personally i see this ending in tragedy, after all we've had people burning themselves to death in gardai stations and solicitors office's over the family courts system and sod all's been done over that

Dave!

Someone should go down there for the laugh and start using the same tactics as them, and start demanding a new car, or a boob job or somethin It'd make a good point! It'd certainly suck to die, though...

Anywho,
what are the opposition parties sayin about this? Are they support MaccyD?

thebaz

how much is this whole excersise going to cost the state , or should i say the taxpayer . I know every time i visit the hospital or GP , apart from not getting instant service, i have to fork out 60 euros. Will the Afhghans or Afghan govt. pick up the billl ?

constitutionus

you know i was just noticing myself this morning that the respective party leaders seem to have fell off the edge of the planet on this issue. methinks they dont want to touch this with a ten foot barge pole

constitutionus

thebaz wrote:

how much is this whole excersise going to cost the state , or should i say the taxpayer . I know every time i visit the hospital or GP , apart from not getting instant service, i have to fork out 60 euros. Will the Afhghans or Afghan govt. pick up the billl ?

technically speaking theyre still asylum seekers so the tax payer takes up the bill. just another small part of the 400 million this costs us a year :rolleyes:

thebaz

i know all the Irish who lived illegally in the U.S. got didly squat from the U.S. govt. and just moved from job to job , working hard , and got on with it. Big difference to the situation here, where illegal aliens or asylum seekers get free accomadation and social welfare. In the U.S. they chuck you in jail and put you on the next plane back to Shannon, and if you don't want to eat , well then go home hungry.

Publin

DaveMcG wrote:

Someone should go down there for the laugh and start using the same tactics as them, and start demanding a new car, or a boob job or somethin

Hmm, if some people went down there now and started their own hunger strike until those in the Cathedral either choose to accept to have their claims processed like all other asylum seekers or are deported, it really could get crazy!

simu

johnnyrotten wrote:

Trespassers should be prosecuted

Well, leave it to God!

Those guys are a bit imprudent tbh imho. It would be fair enough to go on a short hunger strike to raise awareness but they're not going to get anywhere with this stunt.

electric69

let the silly fools rot. if they dont like the way we do things in our own country they can leave. glad to see the government holding firm on this matter.

metrovelvet

Where do you think this sense of entitlement came from?

simu

metrovelvet wrote:

Where do you think this sense of entitlement came from?

On the Afghans' part? Desperation or frustration, I'd say.

But they really don't seem to be in touch with how the world works in this regard.