Any experience with T Bone Mics?

Ella_Guru

Hello,
I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with those T Bone mics on thomann. I'm thinking of getting this particular model: (T Bone. SCT700)

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_the_tbone_sct700_roehrenmikrofon_prodinfo.html

and also maybe (T Bone rb500)

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_the_tbone_rb500_prodinfo.html

Would my money be better spent elsewhere?

I'm thinking of pairing the mic with the following preamp: (ART Tube MP Studio V3)
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_art_tube_mp_studio_v3_prodinfo.html

I mainly just want to use them for recording acoustic guitar and vocals. At the moment I'm using a battery powered maplin condenser (all 24 euros of it) but think the time has come for an upgrade.
Thanks.

sei046

our drummer uses them. they great

smog

If your budget is as low as that these are perfect. The closest thing you will get to AKG / Shures without paying the cash

jtsuited

these are unebelievable for the price. the new retro tube is unbelievable filthy and warm, so close to what it's emulating it's scary.

Ella_Guru

retro tube? Tell me more?
I'm looking at it there, and its just about within my price range. Would I be better served by that instead of the ribbon and condenser?
Can you tell what its got over the SCT700? As I say its mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar. Thanks.

teamdresch

I've used the SCT700 a little bit. It sounds ok, nothing particularly wrong with it that I found. As far as I remember it was just a little bit wooly sounding, but that may have been in comparison with another mic I used for the same application.
I'd look at an Oktava MK-012 (not the chinese version).
Maybe some KEL mics, too : http://www.kelaudio.com/ourproducts.html

As far as low-cost mic preamps go, I'd recommend you look into one of these : http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Harmonix-12AY7-Tube-Mic-Preamp-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ7407976026QQcategoryZ119018QQcmdZViewItem

I wouldn't buy an ART preamp.

Ella_Guru

Hmm, any particular reason not to go with the art preamp? The Kel Audio HM1, looks within with range alright. any further suggestions I'd be glad to hear theem. thanks.

LegacyUser

There is a review of the retro tube in the may issue of sound on sound quite a good read

Ella_Guru

Nice one, gonna go get that. As of yesterday my budget has significantly increased due to a deal falling through. Any other recommendtations appreciated.

jtsuited

let us know what you think if you get them, because i'm thinking of buying one of these myself.

Granted these types aren't built to last but just look at that price!!!

Ella_Guru

Yeah, will do. It'll be 2 or 3 weeks before I order anything, gonna round up all the options first. They seem like a decent choice for a first time buyer, I just want to make sure they're not utter rubbish.

LegacyUser

Have to disagree with jtsuited re them being built to last the retro tube is coming in at a hefty 1.3kg with an excellent shock mount system. I would'nt use a standard Mic stand with that though unless it is a straight one.

teamdresch

Well, the ART is a sucky preamp. That's why it's €80.
A wise man once told me not to buy anything I plan on replacing.. if you buy the ART, you will end up replacing it, probably sooner rather than later. The EH preamp on the other hand, you won't ever need to replace. You may buy different preamps, but chances are you'll still use the EH on some things.
In other words, spend the few extra quid to get something that'll work for you in the long run, as well as improving your sounds right now.

One other thing.. Why a valve mic?

Ella_Guru

The retro tube is valve based isn't it? Apart from looking far cooler would there be a significant difference between this and the (cheaper) sct700? I'd like to get as natural sound as possible.
Also I have a digital preamp (tascam us-122) that supplies phantom power, is it worth investing in an additional tube based preamp? Any suggestions? So far I have the EHX and ART preamps in mind. I'd be thinking of sending the tube amp out put into the us-122...I'm hoping the tube preamp would warm/liven up the sound a bit. Thanks.

teamdresch

Really, the whole valve/warm thing is bull****. A lot of the time it has a lot more to do with marketing than audio.
You may or may not know about the Behringer and similar units that are supposedly valve based, but in some cases the only purpose the valve serves is to get lit up by an orange lightbulb so it can look cool. Beware of gear that has a little window in it so you can see the valve.
Other units only use the valve in one stage of the signal chain, and even then in a 'starved plate' arrangement. Here's some other dude's thoughts that I searched up on google :

In traditional designs most of the time the voltage on the plates (annodes?) of a 12ax7a is at least 150 volts, and often 300 volts or higher. Generally speaking, higher voltages, within the tube's operating range, mean higher dynamic range. Most of the cheap stuff marketed at the project studio market tends to just have a tube or two in one stage of a design that is mostly cheaply opamp circuitry, and typically run at around 50 plate volts, aka a "starved plate". This stage, mixed in to crap up a crap design in an allegedly cool way, offers no dynamics, no headroom, no bandwidth. Because these boxes are generally marketed at musicians, who associate tubes with distortion ala guitar amps, they don't understand that tubes can as clean and pristine as transistors or opamps, and even sound great like that, so they think this is what high end tube gear is supposed to be and are happy with **** gear.

So here's a bit of history : back in the day when there were only valve based electronics at play in recording studios, the engineers and technicians of the day tried everything humanly possible to AVOID the kind of distortion that is perceived to be characteristic of valve circuitry today.
The recent valve revival is down to the marketing folks seeing a way of combating the "cold" digital world with "warm" valve gear.
Now there's no doubting that a good (and for that, read expensive) valve mic or whatever can sound gorgeous, I have a couple of valve pieces myself, but at the lower end of the market you're really better off avoiding anything that claims to be valve based unless you're sure its a decent design.
The EHX preamp for example, is a 'proper' high voltage (and therefore high headroom, low distortion) circuit. A lot of folks with access to really good gear like them a lot, at least according to anything I've read about them.
Same dealio with the budget valve mics for the most part. Chances are you'd be better off with a non-valve model - especially if you're combining it with a decent valve preamp, you'll get plenty of warmth and probably a better sound than a suspect low-cost valve based mic.
On the subject of 'warmth' though, and just from what I've learned in my travels and purchases, the sound of a quality transformer-based design is much 'warmer' to my ears than the valve-based units I've heard. Not that I'm claiming to have heard an awful lot of different gear, but that's my few cents.

As always with this crap.. your mileage may vary.

Ella_Guru

Brilliant, thanks this is exactly the kind of info I need. As you mentioned the whole valve thing, I had a valve digtech processor (with a little window...) and could hear no difference. I'm thinking I'll go with the SCT700 and the EHX mic preamp. Anyone know if it has a 1/4" Input?
Thanks for all the reponses, I'll let ye know how I get on with whatever I end up getting. If anyone else has any further suggestions, I'd be glad to hear. Thanks.

teamdresch

I don't think the EH 12ay7 has a line input.

Ella_Guru

No? Its not too big a concern I guess, I was just hoping to maybe use it for kinda lofi direct guitar sounds. Can dynamic mics like SM57's be used thru it via microphone cable? I had a lend of an SM57 and noticed that it was a 1/4" jack, but I think there was a microphone type conection too.

teamdresch

Ella_Guru wrote:

Can dynamic mics like SM57's be used thru it via microphone cable?

That's what it's all about, my friend.

Ella_Guru

ah, thanks. hmm, know it seems like a stupid question, I was just worried in case the 48V phantom power would blow the arse off a mic that didn't need it.

teamdresch

It would be a bad idea to use phantom on a ribbon mic like the one you mentioned aboce - that could be a blown up mic scenario. Also, you shouldn't use it with a mic that has its own power supply (can't remember if the t-bone 700 did or not).

Ella_Guru

So I assume there is a facility to turn on and off the phantom power on the EHX preamp? I was hoping to reduce clutter and use the preamps phantom power to power the condenser, any particular reason why? I'm guessing different voltages maybe?

teamdresch

Yeah, there's a phantom button.
Phantom power is bad for ribbons - I don't know if that Tbone needs it or not.