I was sold a car with a Missing Gear ?!? - UPDATE

Undercoverguy

As some of you might know i recently bought a used Punto Sporting from a very well known north Dublin garage....

Today i just realised 6th gear is missing!?! It come standard in ALL Sportings but its not in this. Even the gear know has 6th gear on it but its been scratched out or markered out.

Anyone ideas? What would have needed to be replaced for this to happen? The gearbox? Engine?

And what can i do with the garage?

Anan1

Undercoverguy wrote:

As some of you might know i recently bought a used Punto Sporting from a very well known north Dublin garage....

Today i just realised 6th gear is missing!?! It come standard in ALL Sportings but its not in this. Even the gear know has 6th gear on it but its been scratched out or markered out.

Anyone ideas? What would have needed to be replaced for this to happen? The gearbox? Engine?

And what can i do with the garage?

Sounds like the original 6-speed gearbox has been replaced with a 5-speed at some stage. I'd call the garage - they'll have to replace the gearbox with the correct 6-speed unit.

Rudolph Claus

lol,,, maybe its lying on the road somewhere.
Why do people buy fiats. There a false economy. THe money you save buyin the car is used up rapidly fixing it every 2nd week.

Seriously,, a 1991 corolla with 140000miles is a better buy than a 03 etc punto with 30000. I could never understand why people keep buying these balls of sh--it-e. My mate has a sporting,,, and hes had so much trouble with it its unreal. Stupid things go wrong with it. Theres so much needs doing on it at the min, hes not even gonna bother fixing it, or nct-ing it. Reckons it`ll die soon. And its a 01. Its a joke like, a 01 and its wrecked. There made of rubber.

Sorry, i didnt mean to distrupt your thread, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to why folk buy these yokes.

Anan1

Nuttzy wrote:

lol,,, maybe its lying on the road somewhere.
Why do people buy fiats. There a false economy. THe money you save buyin the car is used up rapidly fixing it every 2nd week.

Seriously,, a 1991 corolla with 140000miles is a better buy than a 03 etc punto with 30000. I could never understand why people keep buying these balls of sh--it-e. My mate has a sporting,,, and hes had so much trouble with it its unreal. Stupid things go wrong with it. Theres so much needs doing on it at the min, hes not even gonna bother fixing it, or nct-ing it. Reckons it`ll die soon. And its a 01. Its a joke like, a 01 and its wrecked. There made of rubber.

Sorry, i didnt mean to distrupt your thread, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to why folk buy these yokes.

That's very helpful, I'm sure. If you take the time to read the OP's post, you'll see that his car hasn't broken down, it has been fitted with an incorrect gearbox. If you don't like Puntos then don't buy one.

weemcd

Anan1 wrote:

you'll see that his car hasn't broken down, it has been fitted with an incorrect gearbox.

The garage didnt fit the car with a new (incorrect) gear box for no reason now did they?:rolleyes:

Owen

Okay, before we panic and start thinking there's a new gearbox in there, it could just be a case of the linkage inside has slipped, and to cover it up, the garage has scratched off the 6th to save having to work on Gearboxes (Working on Gearboxes is a pig). I'd get an independent assemement, and then politely confront the garage. Agression will get you no where in a situation like this. Perhaps a visit to a main FIAT Dealer might help?

To the guy who said FIATs were unreliable? I'm in the Motor Trade, and FIATs have become a lot more reliable in the last 5 years. They're even offering 4 year's warranty now!

Undercoverguy

Anan1 wrote:

That's very helpful, I'm sure. If you take the time to read the OP's post, you'll see that his car hasn't broken down, it has been fitted with an incorrect gearbox. If you don't like Puntos then don't buy one.

Well said.

If ya want a car a 15 year old ugly car that you can eventually watch the clock turn back to "0000000" then appart from being cheap cu*t you should buy really old built like a WV.

BUT!.... If ya want a car that YOU PERSONALLY like the Style, Look, Colour, Body, Features and Engine (ex. Get Box lol) then you should but that... In my case its a Punto. Build a bridge and get a new pet hate.

Now back to the thread.... Will the garage change the box? Big job? Also bearing in mind altho i only have the car a week i've caused some nasty cosmetic damage to the passenger side... could this void the warrenty or something?!?!

TempestSabre

Nuttzy wrote:

...Why do people buy fiats. .

Flair design... Schumacher has one?

Nuttzy wrote:

...My mate has a sporting, ...Theres so much needs doing on it at the min...

What do you expect if he doesn't maintain it? :rolleyes: Bad workman...

Undercoverguy - need to know more about how you bought it, how long ago. This is something you really should have spotted when you bought the car. But perhaps it was bought "as is". Maybe they pulled a fast one, hard to tell from the info thus far. Its a strange one alright. You might need to get some one to a report on what actually is on the car. Different gearbox, engine who knows?

Owen

Tough question. The warranty shouldn't be affected by cosmetic damage, but it does lessen your rights to return the car and get your money back if it comes to that situation.

Get yourself to a FIAT Dealer mate, it'll answer all your questions.

Anan1

Undercoverguy wrote:

Now back to the thread.... Will the garage change the box? Big job? Also bearing in mind altho i only have the car a week i've caused some nasty cosmetic damage to the passenger side... could this void the warrenty or something?!?!

I don't think it's anything to do with the warranty. The garage sold you a 6-speed Punto with only 5 forward gears. This is how they gave you the car, it didn't develop this problem during your ownership. They'll have to do whatever it takes to make the car as described, ie with 6 foward gears. That said, ned's post makes sense. Remember also that the garage that sold you the car may be completely unaware of this - it may have been done by a previous owner before they ever saw the car. Of course it's still their problem, but it may be a genuine oversight.

TempestSabre

Undercoverguy wrote:

....Will the garage change the box? Big job? Also bearing in mind altho i only have the car a week i've caused some nasty cosmetic damage to the passenger side... could this void the warrenty or something?!?!

Depends why its fitted. The other damage has nothing to do with the gearbox, though you've probably made it very hard to return the car if that was an option to explore. Problem with the wrong box apart from the gearing effecting the performance, is that it will effect the resale of the car aswell.

TempestSabre

What kinda place did you get it from? Dealer, Private?

Undercoverguy

Okay i got the car for the FIAT Dealer in Swords, I never seen an spec sheets as it was a "Standard FIAT Punto Sporting". I got the car late friday night and cause the body damage... late friday night. I Know, MADNESS but i have a TINY Gate lol

If this garage are not aware of this and i bring it to them tomorrow, what happens from there on in? Replace the box? Could the 6th gear still be in the just closed off due to damage?

Why would the box be changed down a gear? Surely its a major job and there wold have to be good reason.

Owen

It just sounds like a linkage has popped off. I had it on a car years ago, I had 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th. The third linkage was loose in the box, my mate reattached it, and hey presto, 3rd gear again. They probably didn't notice it, how often would they get to use 6th on their service test drives around Swords?

BArra

they might have had to replace the clutch and just put in a 5 gear, a black marker over the 6th gear thing on the knob sounds very dodgey.

Undercoverguy

BArra wrote:

a black marker over the 6th gear thing on the knob sounds very dodgey.

Couldnt agree more. But tomorrow should i get the garage i purchased it from to take a look or a "down the lane" machanic i know?

Who knew getting a car could be so much fun. I have it 3 days and i've gotten 1000euro worth of body damage and a missing gear.... Think a break light is gone to..... JOY! lol

Owen

BArra wrote:

they might have had to replace the clutch and just put in a 5 gear, a black marker over the 6th gear thing on the knob sounds very dodgey.

Huh ?

Replacing a clutch would have nothing to do with the gearbox. The clutch is just a friction linkage between the engine and the gears, it doesn't matter if there's 1 gear or 47.

Lets just wait for diagnosis from the Dealership before speculating. We could all be wrong

TempestSabre

Bring it back to the dealer you bought it from. I reckon they'll sort it out for you.

No point worrying about it till then.

maidhc

Undercoverguy wrote:

Today i just realised 6th gear is missing!?! It come standard in ALL Sportings but its not in this. Even the gear know has 6th gear on it but its been scratched out or markered out.

My money is definately on the original 6 speed being replaced by a 5 speed. The 5 speed would have been much cheaper to fit into the car than sourcing an 6 speed.

You have a pretty good claim against the garage for it.

esskay

Nuttzy wrote:

lol,,, maybe its lying on the road somewhere.
Why do people buy fiats. There a false economy. THe money you save buyin the car is used up rapidly fixing it every 2nd week.

Seriously,, a 1991 corolla with 140000miles is a better buy than a 03 etc punto with 30000. I could never understand why people keep buying these balls of sh--it-e. My mate has a sporting,,, and hes had so much trouble with it its unreal. Stupid things go wrong with it. Theres so much needs doing on it at the min, hes not even gonna bother fixing it, or nct-ing it. Reckons it`ll die soon. And its a 01. Its a joke like, a 01 and its wrecked. There made of rubber.

Sorry, i didnt mean to distrupt your thread, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to why folk buy these yokes.

Sorry folks, Gotta agree with Nuttzy. I have a 00 Punto ELX and it's muck. Has more new parts than Pamela Anderson. Funnily enough I did buy a 14 yr old VW Corrado and love it :-P

TempestSabre

esskay wrote:

Sorry folks, Gotta agree with Nuttzy. I have a 00 Punto ELX and it's muck. Has more new parts than Pamela Anderson. Funnily enough I did buy a 14 yr old VW Corrado and love it :-P

Yes and they are completely different type of cars. You might aswell compare a Ford Mondeo 1.6 and a Audi S8. I know people with Fiats who look after them and have no more problems than people with VW's. Problem is most people who buy them don't maintain them properly, and they do not stand up to neglect or abuse, why? Because they are cheaper car. Get over it and quit the thread spoiling. Its not cool.

prospect

Nuttzy wrote:

lol,,, maybe its lying on the road somewhere.
Why do people buy fiats. There a false economy. THe money you save buyin the car is used up rapidly fixing it every 2nd week.

Seriously,, a 1991 corolla with 140000miles is a better buy than a 03 etc punto with 30000. I could never understand why people keep buying these balls of sh--it-e. My mate has a sporting,,, and hes had so much trouble with it its unreal. Stupid things go wrong with it. Theres so much needs doing on it at the min, hes not even gonna bother fixing it, or nct-ing it. Reckons it`ll die soon. And its a 01. Its a joke like, a 01 and its wrecked. There made of rubber.

Sorry, i didnt mean to distrupt your thread, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to why folk buy these yokes.

I am also curious,

Why do people who clearly know SFA about cars post onto a Motoring Forum?

Get off that bandwagon, it doesn't suit you.

Owen

maidhc wrote:

My money is definately on the original 6 speed being replaced by a 5 speed. The 5 speed would have been much cheaper to fit into the car than sourcing an 6 speed.

I doubt it. A Gearbox is going to be expensive whether it's 5 speed, or 6 speed, and will take the same amount of time to fit.

TempestSabre

ned78 wrote:

I doubt it. A Gearbox is going to be expensive whether it's 5 speed, or 6 speed, and will take the same amount of time to fit.

Thats what I was thinking. Maybe they are hard to source, some fiat parts are like that, so they fitted what they could get. Unlikely though. Perhaps theres a linkage/selector broken. Could be any reason though. No point guessing till you get the original garage to look at it.

cargrouch

I hate to even acknowledge the two blatant whinging thread spoilers that wandered in here, but there are three types of problems with FIATs

1)70% - poor maintenance, and young drivers driving the ring out of them. Let's be honest about this - they are cheap cars and the majority are in the hands of people who know nothing about cars.

2)20% - sensors/electronics type problems that pretty much all european car manufacturers seem to have.

3)10% - genuine FIAT foul ups.

I'm constantly amazed by the amount of people with a wheezing, creaking, patched up corolla (for example) that would tell you a FIAT was complete crap if it had half of the same things wrong with it. Granted, the corolla is a fine car and a well maintained one will go "forever".
But it always seems to me that the people that bought a Toyota for FIAT money (ie a knackered corolla) that are most vocal about how FIAT have always been and always will be crap.
Now, before I drag a load of people into an off-topic argument, I'm not say they're fantastic or anything, just that if you know your stuff and treat 'em right a fiat can work out to be a cheap way to get around.

Back to the OP, did a bit of googling, and not ALL Sportings had 6speed, but maybe you meant all of your particular model.

punto website wrote:

Several Punto Sporting have been produced by Fiat:

Punto Sporting Mk0 (1994-1995, 88 HPs, 1587 cc)
Punto Sporting Mk1 (1996-1999, 86 HPs, 1242 cc, 16 valves)
Punto Sporting Mk2 (1999-2001, 80 HPs, 1242 cc, 16 valves, 6 gear speeds)
Punto Sporting Mk2 Speedgear (1999-2002, 80 HPs, 1242 cc, 16 valves, Speedgear gearbox)
Punto Sporting Mk2 (2001-2002, 80 HPs, 1242 cc, 16 valves, 5 gear speeds)
Punto Sporting Mk2 JTD (2001-2002, 86 HPs, 1910 cc)

So it's possible you have a gearbox from a different Punto Sporting? As TempestSabre said, maybe that's all that was available when the job was originally done. That said, I def think you should get the correct one!

Slinky>

Its a bit convenient that Fiat owners are 'special' in that they drive their cars to destruction and dont bother getting them serviced dont you think ?

If you look at the JD Power survey's and www.honestjohn.co.uk Fiat is always worse off than Toyota, Nissan VW ect. .

Ive a 13 year old supra I "drive the ring out of it" all I want no doubt every one else who had it before me did the eand it runs a lot better than a 2 year old Fiat I had before, No main dealer rip off I can change the oil myself,

Fiats can be great value cars but you either want to be paying very little for it or else getting a one owner main dealer serviced car.

Good Luck to guy with the 6 Speed Sporting im sure the main dealer will sort it out, Often their inspections of trade in's are quite basic and they may have overlooked it

cargrouch wrote:

I hate to even acknowledge the two blatant whinging thread spoilers that wandered in here, but there are three types of problems with FIATs

1)70% - poor maintenance, and young drivers driving the ring out of them. Let's be honest about this - they are cheap cars and the majority are in the hands of people who know nothing about cars.

Kimbot

I would imagine the gearbox went in the 6 speed and to source a second hand 6 speed box is a nightmare so they opted for a 5 speed!! Either that or when they sourced a 6 speed box it was really a 5 speed!!

maidhc

cargrouch wrote:

I'm constantly amazed by the amount of people with a wheezing, creaking, patched up corolla (for example) that would tell you a FIAT was complete crap if it had half of the same things wrong with it. Granted, the corolla is a fine car and a well maintained one will go "forever".

There is no amount of maintenance will do anything for a gearbox (or a headgasket). Aside from not dog it, there is little you can do but hope for the best. Most cars don't even have a filler to allow you change the oil in the box, and even if they do there is little benefit in doing it more than every 100k (I changed the oil in a tractor gearbox yesterday for the first time since in almost 40 years, and it is still perfect!).

The only routine maintenance a car should need is an oil change, new filters when recommended, and replacment wearing parts (brake pads, trackends etc).

cargrouch

Slinky> wrote:

A supra is better than a punto

Slow slap for Slinky! How long did it take you to work that out!

cargrouch wrote:

Toyota for FIAT money

I think you may have picked up the wrong end of a stick from a different tree on a diffent continent. We sure as hell aren't talking about the same thing here.

PauloMN

Are you sure your model is supposed to be a 6 speed? This may sound daft, but maybe the previous owner simply liked the gear stick knob of the 6 speed, screwed off the old one and popped the new one on. Is it a steel knob or anything that might have been nicer than the standard one?

Wibbs

That sounds well dodgy. Now as has been pointed out it's possible that your car didn't have the 6 speed box in the first place, though that begs the question why it had the 6 speed gearknob. It'll be interesting to see what the dealer says about this.

As for Fiats and reliability; They can be less reliable than many other manufacturers on average(do not get me started on the mechanics friend Alfas ). If you're lucky you can get a good one though. I know two people who got the same model new Punto within 3 weeks of each other, one swears by the car, one swears at it. The litany of faults the unlucky one suffered you would scarcely believe.

This can happen with any car maker in fairness, but the italian stuff seems to have the worst record by far. FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001, 10th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2004 survey, 10th least reliable car in 2005 Warranty Direct Reliability Survey with 48 repair claims per 100. 48 per 100 FFS!!. They're mostly newer cars too. Scale that up for cars with bigger mileage. No amount of care and attention will help with those kind of stats.

As maidhc points out, maintenance will only take you so far. Drive a civic or polo and a punto the same distance, with the same maintenance schedule and see how far the Italian car goes.

That said if you do get a good one, they're a stylish little car that can be nice to drive and pretty cheap to run. If I asked the friend who got the aforementioned good one about them, he'd likely beat me up for even suggesting they're not a good car .