I was sold a car with a Missing Gear ?!? - UPDATE

Slinky>

cargrouch wrote:

Originally Posted by Slinky>
A supra is better than a punto
Slow slap for Slinky!

How long did it take you to work that out!

Please dont misquote me its deceitful.

The point I was 'trying' to make was that I would expect a few year old supermini to be more reliable than a 13 year old sports car which hasnt seen a main dealer in 8 years and for the last 5 years has had 'DIY' servicing.

TempestSabre

Reliability has nothing to do with this thread. Stop hijacking it.

If you want to start a thread on cheap cars vs expensive ones or big capacity GT cars vs budget small capacity hackbacks do. Perferably in the inane analogy forum.

cargrouch

Slinky> wrote:

Please dont misquote me its deceitful.

The point I was 'trying' to make was that I would expect a few year old supermini to be more reliable than a 13 year old sports car which hasnt seen a main dealer in 8 years and for the last 5 years has had 'DIY' servicing.

Might be, mightn't be. Too many factors apart from age.

Sorry bout the paraphrasing. Genuinely! I do just have a thing against people who say "ALL toyotas are great, ALL Fiats are crap", thought you may have been one of these, sorry.

Slinky>

cargrouch wrote:

Might be, mightn't be. Too many factors apart from age.

Sorry bout the paraphrasing. Genuinely! I do just have a thing against people who say "ALL toyotas are great, ALL Fiats are crap", thought you may have been one of these, sorry.

Not at all, I would buy a Fiat coupe in the morning.

I seen 99 Punto's going for €1500, Thats excellent value if you get a good one,

Undercoverguy

Was just on to the sales guy who sold it too me. He's a friend of a friend so first we joked about how this car seems to have bad karma or something with things going wrong.

He said it could just be a linkage thats gone but they'll need to see it. But no matter what they'll fix it. So before they have a look at it i'm taking it to a machanic i know down the road so he can tell me excatly whats happening under there.

Slinky>

Undercoverguy wrote:

On to the sale guy who sold it too me. He a friend of a friend so first we joked about how this car seems to have bad karma or something.

He waid it would just be a linkage gone but theey'll need to see it. But no matter what they'll fix it. So before they have a look at it i'm taking it to a machanic i know doen the road to tell me excatly whats happening under there.

Thats a good idea, I suggest not mentioning it to Fiat that youve had the car checked out and see what they come up with, It will give you a good idea of the dealers integrity/quality.

Best of Luck with it,

TempestSabre

Slinky> wrote:

....you either want to be paying very little for it or else getting a one owner main dealer serviced car....

Slinky> wrote:

...The point I was 'trying' to make was that I would expect a few year old supermini to be more reliable than a 13 year old sports car which hasnt seen a main dealer in 8 years and for the last 5 years has had 'DIY' servicing.

Personally I have no faith in main dealer servicing.

Wibbs

Slinky> wrote:

Thats a good idea, I suggest not mentioning it to Fiat that youve had the car checked out and see what they come up with, It will give you a good idea of the dealers integrity/quality.

Good plan.

Best of Luck with it,

I second that.

bazz26

ned78 wrote:

I doubt it. A Gearbox is going to be expensive whether it's 5 speed, or 6 speed, and will take the same amount of time to fit.

True but if the car was fitted with a reconditioned gear box then a 6 speed might have been harder to get hold of at the time, so the more common 5 speed was used. Strange though that they didn't just replace the gear knob too from a scrapped Punto.

Chances are all this was done by the previous owner of the car rather than the garage. The garage if not a main Fiat dealer may not have even known that that this Punto model had a 6 speed gear box or didn't bother to check if it did when taking it in as a trade-in. The salesman could have given it a quick spin around the block just to make sure it was driving ok and checked the body work.

ZENER

Just a thought, does the car feel like it needs a 6th ? I mean when you get to 5th does the rev counter reach max before the car has reached its max speed ? I'm sure there are people here who know what I mean. If your 5 speed car lost 5th gear you'd be aware of it wouldn't you, you wouldnt reach top speed.

Can someone who knows what I mean explain this better?

ZEN

Anan1

ZENER wrote:

Just a thought, does the car feel like it needs a 6th ? I mean when you get to 5th does the rev counter reach max before the car has reached its max speed ? I'm sure there are people here who know what I mean. If your 5 speed car lost 5th gear you'd be aware of it wouldn't you, you wouldnt reach top speed.

Can someone who knows what I mean explain this better?

ZEN

To further complicate matters, 6th could be an overdrive - there are 6 speed cars that can only reach top speed in 5th.

yellow012

Well the MK 1 Sporting had 5 gears and 86bhp, six more than the MK2 and it didn't need a sixth gear.
I've heard a few reports that the 6 speed gearboxes in the MK2 Sporting could be quite fragile so you are probably better off with what you have. If it is the case that the gearbox has been replaced, ask the garage for an extended warranty on the gearbox and then get a gear knob off a 5 speed Punto, stick it on and forget about it.
For what it's worth, I owned a Punto Sporting for 6 years and 70000 miles without an ounce of trouble. My sister is currently driving it and there is now over 85k on it and it still feels as new. They are a great little car.
Alternatively I could have spent 6 years driving around in a clapped out Jap box wishing to god the thing would break so I could end the misery not have to drive it any more:)

Paul (MN)

I had problem with a swords FIAT dealer before. I would be careful and not take any bull. I would start recording all interactions, and put any complaints, demands in writing, just in case.

Kersh

If the box has been changed , ask why? The cars not that old. My youngest car is 15 (108k), the oldest 27 (170k), and neither has ever had a box change.
Regardless of the answer you get, keep asking questions.

mike65

Right no more off-topic posts about why FIATS are crap or why they are not crap.

Anyone who violates this will be banned for a week.

Mike.

Dilbert75

OP are you sure it was registered as a Sporting? Is it possible it was fitted with a Sporting bodykit and its plonker owner tried to scratch the 6th gear where there never was one?

ianobrien

Have you examined identical models from the same year to see if they have a 5 or 6 speed 'box?

Another option is to start off playing dumb with the dealer "What happened to the gear lever?" and then hit him with that another identical model has X gears, is there a hidden history with the car and so on.. Ideally find an identical model on the own dealers forecourt.

I'd take somebody with you, somebody who you trust and who is calm to keep you on the straight and narrow if youo fly off the handle with the dealer.

ZENER

ianobrien wrote:

Another option is to start off playing dumb with the dealer "What happened to the gear lever?" and then hit him with that another identical model has X gears, is there a hidden history with the car and so on.. Ideally find an identical model on the own dealers forecourt.

I wouldn't bother with this approach, they read this forum and probably already know you're on your way.

ZEN

chicken_food

My advice would be talk to them nicely. They probably didnt even know it was like that or were oblivious to it. Either way if ur nice to them they will be nicer to you. Theyv taken your money but still want repeat custom. Going in and shouting the odds will just cause a stalemate. Now if they start fobbing you off with exscuses then start demanding answers and report them. But dont threaten, these guys get threatened every day by customers who hear what they are entitled to,not what they ARE entitled to.
My 2c anyway!

Interceptor

If the gearbox was replaced, the ratio for 5th is THE SAME as the ratio for 6th so there will be no difference in performance, just less gear changing. A second hand 6sp box costs >€600 and a 5sp<€150 with the 6sp being as rare as rocking horse poop.

The gears are cable-shifted so unless a selector fork is bent then I doubt its a 'box problem - no linkages to bend/fall off.

My bet is its a 5sp sporting with the wrong gearknob - its a nice colour too - pity about your gate/door interface OP.

'cptr

Kimbot

Did you manage to get it sorted yet??
Also did you get an estimate from your man that I sent on the details yet?

TheMonster

They may be oblivious to the problem. gf bought a car (1 year old from a reputable dealer that her family had been dealing with for years), went to trade it into to another garage last year and they said the car had been crashed and had a bad paint job done and when he pointed it out it was obvious and would give her 2K less that she thought she would get. She traded it back into where she had bought it, said nothing, and they gave her slightly more than she thought she would get.

Ay Cee

TempestSabre wrote:

Flair design... Schumacher has one?

Schumi has one cos he got it for nothing because Fix It Again Tomorrow own Ferrari.

ninty9er

Dilbert75 wrote:

OP are you sure it was registered as a Sporting? Is it possible it was fitted with a Sporting bodykit and its plonker owner tried to scratch the 6th gear where there never was one?

I'd be thinking along these lines too. It could have been sprayed yellow black or silver, (you didn't mention colour but Sporting's only came in yellow black and silver - maybe blue AFAIK), will have a different steering wheel to that ugly FIAT Dinner plate thing and most will have an in dash CD Changer though it was optional. Oh ya silver dash

Maybe you already know this but some people don't

I looked at a MK1 "sport" and steered well clear. I'm fairly sure no such car ever existe

AMurphy

Undercoverguy wrote:

.....
Today i just realised 6th gear is missing!?! It come standard in ALL Sportings but its not in this. Even the gear know has 6th gear on it but its been scratched out or markered out.

Anyone ideas? What would have needed to be replaced for this to happen? The gearbox? Engine?

And what can i do with the garage?

If it was sold AS-IS, you might have a tough time. Was it described as a 6sp by the seller?.
And this is why AA inspections prior to sale are useful.
Did you get at least a 30day warranty? you could look from a 6th gear had "failed". Yeah we know it is not there and was this disclosed to you the same way a speedometer change would/should be.

However, you might want to check if the engine AND g-box were exchanged, or only the g-box. For all you knw you may have the engine of another vehicle also.
Also, be sure it did have a 6sp. Some posers like to change the gearknobs to reflect options that were never on the vehicle.

Also, check out the MPG, and/or gear ratios, if it is in an acceptable range, you may be a well off, particularly if the 6sp has a history for failure.

Rudolph Claus

Just out of interest, whet ever became of this?

dubtom

I'll second that, I feel cheated after spending so much time reading it all:D

dingding

Bump

Did you get this sorted?

colm_mcm

Fiat did a limited edition Punto for a while, looked exactly like the SPorting but was 1.2 8 valve. 5 Speed. think it may have been called the Punto "Cool"

Undercoverguy

Hey Guys,

Sorry about the delay in the posting.
I've gotten lagal advice and the've been giving me a hand with it all.
The garage have givin me the location of 2 other garages selling 2001 Punto Sportings in that colour. I've been asked to visit these two garages, look and test drive the two cars and pick one. Altho when i asked if my garage was planning on buying a sporting from another garage they didnt answer.

In the meantime the current car i have has visited the garage a further 4 times.

1) The radiator thought it was a jet engine. - The fan was on High-Speed constantly due to a broken thermostat in the engine bay.

2) Electrical Fault With Indicator - Wouldnt go off.

3) Drivers Seat-Belt Broken

Then over the last week two new problems have devloped and i plan on adventuring out tomorrow to get them sorted.
1) Problems getting the car into 1st gear, getting more and more frequent.
2) Breaks gone VERY soft overnight.... I'm guessing fluid loss.

I'll be out to the garage tomorrow so i'll upfate yas then.... Thanks for the help so far guys