Champions League Final - Arsenal v Barcelona

smemon

Jivin Turkey wrote:

If the goal had stood and Barcelona went on to win 4-0 in the most classic fashion of all time, you wouldn't hear a single call here for a Lehman red card.

i would have been the first to complain just like im saying eboue should have been sent off. 1st yellow was deserved and he should have been booked for diving as should deco.

henry should be fined by uefa for his after match comments, so should sky and also the ref should be sent back to norway and relegated to lesser matches.

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

i would have been the first to complain just like im saying eboue should have been sent off. 1st yellow was deserved and he should have been booked for diving as should deco.

henry should be fined by uefa for his after match comments, so should sky and also the ref should be sent back to norway and relegated to lesser matches.

Yes but we should all also know to take everything you say with a mountain of salt.

PHB

Why didn't you call for a goal and a red then too?

Since you bring it up, I did. It's one of my pet hates in football, and it's been show tonight on the world stage why it should be enforced.

If he had enforced the rules properly, we woudla had a classic match.
Arsenal woulda had to come at Barca, and we would have had the same match.
The mistake in enforcing the rules resulted in the less fun match, not the rules themselves.

applehunter

Barca have been the best footballing side this season and a lot of season before but never got their reward.

Tonight they deserved it.

redspider

This game turned on a number of key incidents. It started off brightly for Arsenal and they got a couple of half chances. Henry seemed to be up for this match which was a good omen. Barcelona created a couple of half-chances too. It was a good start to the match from a neutral point of view.

Then came the Lehman foul on Etoo. My reading of it, and taking the position of the referee in terms of his position in relation to the play, was that it was clearly a foul, from his angle it looked outside the box (and it was, just!), and as a last man its a straight red, no question. However, the Ref was trigger-happy with his whistle. He should have seen Guily who was only a couple of yards away and allowed the goal to stand AND also have Lehman sent-off. That would have been completely in line with his powers and the rules. So, in this case, as the resultant free-kick went tamely wide (in a way, its too close to get it up and down over the wall) Arsenal got a let-off, as it could have been much worse.

So, with 10 men, it was a daunting task. I felt sorry for Pires who was rightly pissed at being taken off. Why Lehman fouled is another story, but he was desperate, it was a big moment and adrenalin takes over. He tried to get away with a sneaky one. When will players ever learn?

I thought Arsenal did well with the 10-men. The sending off changed the complexion of the game, Barcelona were in control but were taking their time. Henry was prowling as best as he could. I felt that Ronaldinho was playing poorly, for his standards, even for anyone's standards really and gave the ball away cheaply and was weak in free-kicks and in front of goals.

Barcelona are renowned for being poor at set pieces. When Eboue went down, a clear dive in slow-mo, but given by the ref as a typical 'balancing' of the situation, I said to the people I was with, "what are the chances that Campbell will score from this?" And of curse he duly did, very poor marking by Barca and their defence was very light in numbers. Their keeper, Valdez, who is good, could have done better perhaps.

So, it was 1-0 to Arsenal, but with a long way to go and 10-men. The pattern remained with Barca dominating posession, and trying to thread through an opening, whilst Arsenal were relying on Henry to create and break, as well as Ljungberg, who had a good game I thought. Arsenal were doing well at mopping up, and Barca who came close at times such as hitting the woodwork, etc, couldnt break through.

The 2nd half was more of the same. The feeling I got was that as the 2nd half progressed, the more likely that Arsenal would hold it. Barcelona werent panicking but the clock was ticking down quickly and the chances they were creating were only half chances at best and Arsenal's defence was solid. Indeed, Arsenal created a good couple of half chances themselves and Henry had a golden chance to take it to 2-0 but Valdez saved well. Such are the moments that turn football matches.

Larsson made a difference, a big difference and his influence came to bear very quickly. Why he was not on earlier is a mystery, and its good that he has a CL medal as he deserves it for his career and his level of effort for the clubs he has played for. I didnt get to see a clear replay on the 1st goal to know whether it was clearly offside (Does anyone have an across the pitch image perhaps?). What I do know is that this was the linesman's call, so why Wenger and Henry were blaming the Ref for this call after the match is anyone's guess but definitely sounds like a case of sour grapes. Etoo finished it into the net very well, perhaps a better keeper would have kept it out but it was point blank and Etoo wrong footed the goalie.

The momentum was then with Barcelona and their 2nd goal came quickly, and easily. This time Almunia really should have done better and saved it. If that one would have been saved, I still think Barca would have scored another and would have gone on to win it. It just seemed a matter of time.

Overall, I think the result was fair. Its a pity that it wasnt 11 v 11, but that is football. If Lehman didnt foul it would have been 1-0 (barring a Ronny Rosenthal moment) to Barca and who knows what would have happened. Lehman saved Arsenal in the semi-final and got them to the final, so his good decisions there have to be included with his bad decision in the final with the foul. Thats football.

Btw, I thought Liam Brady was excellent with his analysis and commentary during the match. He was very fair, considering that if anyone should be biased it should be him. He must be dissapointed with the result, but he got all the calls right and has to be commended. I have a lot of time for Liam and after this match it has been further enhanced.

It is only Barcelona's 2nd time to win this trophy, which is hard to believe. They deserved it. Ronaldinho, who had some brilliant moments during the campaign helped them get there although he didnt do it in the final. Messi, who did it in the league for them, was unfortunately injured. But they had enough of a team to win it - Etoo did well, as did Valdez and Larsson, Puyol was reasonable and Deco was better than reasonable. I think Fabergas didnt step up to the plate tonight but cant be blamed as he is still young

I dont think any Arsenal fans can have any real quibbles with the result.

redspider

jank

What can I say, so close yet so far....

Henry should have taken that chance...

Well Done Barca. They deserve it, just about.

What galls me is the pathetic joy from mainly Man United fans here, you are absolutely pathetic

Agreed. What is it about United Fans?!?

BOHSBOHS

itv commentator david pleat : "the sight is in end"
(just before etos equaliser)

eboue could have been sent off too , his dive for the free kick
and also his diving ( bout 50 del horno style rolls) after he banged into a barca player

didnt hear henry moaning about sportmanship when arsenal didnt give the ball back after barca put it out for an arsenal player injury????

henry: good player , bad loser

eirebhoy

I forgot to mention, I'm a huge fan of Ronaldinho but I've never seen him bottle it like he did tonight. It was obvious right from the start that he was nervous. He smiled once in the game and that was after he fluffed a shot. He was not himself tonight and I suppose you can't blame him when the whole world is expecting something spectacular every time he gets the ball.

PHB

I don't think Ronaldinho or Henry were as bad as people were making out.

Henry may have missed a couple of chances, but he was the one who made them.

Ronaldinho made two great passes to Eto,
one which set up the red card which effectivly won the game,
the other for his great turn which forced a fantastic save from Eto.

He wasn't his magical self, but he was far from bottling it.

Roddy23

Right first off Congratulations to Barca. I am a fan of Barca and have been to a few of their games but I at heart am an Arsenal supporter. In fairness i thought Arsenal played very well and am extremely proud of them. In my wildest dreams I never thought we could get this far. In relation to tonights game, I thought it was the right decision for Lehmann to be sent off. Almunia coming on did not fill me with the best of confidence.
For the first half I thought we were very lucky to be ahead, although after the first five mins I thought we were well on top. At half time I knew for the next 45mins we would be under substantial pressure.
However I thought Arsenal played better in the second half bar those five minutes. i thought every time we hit them on the break we would score. Freddie ye were immense and I thought ye would score. Henry was unlucky twice. Barca durin the first 20mins of the second half were reduced to shots from around the 18 yard box. Then Fabregas went off, Larsson came on for Barca, and it all changed.
Larsson was brought on, and Barca with three effcetive forwards were all over Arsenal, and Almunia let one in on his near post. Now I have never been too confident with Almunia in goal, think Ryan Giggs, but I thought up until he had a dodgy save, where he saved the ball between his knees, that things were going well. But when I saw the close up of his face after this save i knew there could be trouble ahead.Five mins later it was all over. Belletti sealed the deal. I really did feel for the players. It wasn't the performances that let them down tonight, I thought it was the squad. Barca over 90mins had a better squad. I thought that Kolo Toure played brilliantly as did Campbell. Eboue unfortunatley showed his age, Cole played well, Freddie played very well, and ALmunia although he saved the shot from Eto'o, I was disappointed to see the first goal, go in on the near post.
I am so proud of Arsenal tonight. I dont care with a lot of people on here think of them, as most of them are begrudging Utd supporters. i have read through the whole thread, and I have to say Liverpool supporters, are the best on here, for showing their humility.
There are a few supporters on here who would be a disgrace to their clubs. And I will be reporting Cheesedude for his remark earlier in the thread "pr!cks". i am not a r@t but I felt that this sort of comment was well out of order. I have just come back from the pub tonight, and have had my fair share of banter, but in fairness nobody has resorted to this sort of under hand name calling.

Paul Tergat

Roddy23 wrote:

And I will be reporting Cheesedude for his remark earlier in the thread "pr!cks". i am not a r@t but I felt that this sort of comment was well out of order. I have just come back from the pub tonight, and have had my fair share of banter, but in fairness nobody has resorted to this sort of under hand name calling.

does that kind of thing bother you that much?? the pubs are much worse tbh....

and again ill say it, im a utd fan but fair play to arsenal, they did well to get there but the final was spoiled by the early sending off and maybe you gooners could have taken it ...who knows!

Roddy23

Ye it does, I'm just back from the pub, got a few slags but nothing like that.

Paul Tergat

Roddy23 wrote:

Ye it does, I'm just back from the pub, got a few slags but nothing like that.

but like do you not hear much worse than that in the pubs?? thats the aspect i love about watching games in pubs, gettin totally slagged when you're losing and then being able to give it back when you're in front! if somebody called me a pr!ck in a pub id think it was hillarious, i certainly wouldn't be offended...everyone to their own i guess.

Was there a decent atmosphere in the pub up until the latter stages of the game?

smashey

redspider wrote:

When Eboue went down, a clear dive in slow-mo, but given by the ref as a typical 'balancing' of the situation,

Absolute boll**ks. Eboue is a cheat, it's as simple as that. How Wenger (Whinger) has the neck to complain about the referee is beyond me. Why does he only see the fouls/indescretions committed against his team?:mad: I am fed up listening to his biased gripes.

And for the record, I am delighted that Larsson had such an impact.

Fighting Irish

Roddy23 wrote:

Ye it does, I'm just back from the pub, got a few slags but nothing like that.

:rolleyes: its the internet for god sake, its not that hard to take it to the chin and move on

Fair play to Larsson!Glad to see him getting a winners medal!

Ardent

I'm happy Arsenal didn't win because of Wenger's comments about Liverpool last season. Felt sorry for Henry, he deserves a CL winners medal, maybe next season with Barca.

I was looking forward to a good game between two good attacking sides and I felt the ref ruined the game. He wasn't up to the task. In the 18th minute he should have let play develop for a few seconds more before blowing his whistle and should have awarded Barca a goal and maybe Lehman a yellow card. Sending off a player that early just ruined the game.

Arsenal were the better team before the red card and fought well throughout the game. Unlucky but the best team in the competition won in the end.

dirkey_wynne

All I'll say is FNCK YOU REF. I had money on Giuly to score first. Talk about ineptitude. How that guy got the CL final...well it's just beyond me!

dirkey_wynne

Roddy23 wrote:

I am so proud of Arsenal tonight. I dont care with a lot of people on here think of them, as most of them are begrudging Utd supporters.

I haven't read through the thread and to be honest I think it's unfair to taint us. I'm a Utd fan, but was cheering whole heartedly for Arsenal last night. I was delighted when they took the lead, and p!ssed off when they lost it. You say Liverpool fans are the best, well to be honest, of all the ones I know, for instance in here in work, all last year in build up to the final they were telling me how I should support them, for the English league etc. Yet now, this season, they were all bar none, supporting Barca last night.

But as for the thread here, I'm sure plenty of Pool fans did show humility. It's down to the person involved, not the club. There are muppet supporters of all teams, it's not a reflection of the team, it's a reflection of the individual.

redspider

smashey wrote:

Absolute boll**ks. Eboue is a cheat, it's as simple as that. How Wenger (Whinger) has the neck to complain about the referee is beyond me. Why does he only see the fouls/indescretions committed against his team?:mad: I am fed up listening to his biased gripes.
And for the record, I am delighted that Larsson had such an impact.

Yes, Eboue did dive on that occasion and cheated but he's not the only one at it. To be fair to both teams last night, there was little diving going on. The only way to stamp it out is to have a deterrent, and as it is impossible for Ref's and linesmen to catch players at it on all occasions in real-time, the deterrent of post-match punishments being handed out should stop players doing it. For example, 2-match bans for EACH dive. A tough deterrent is the only way to rid the sport of this aspect which has alas increased over the years.

The balancing aspect from the Ref is common. To be fair to the Ref, in real-time and from his angle, it wasnt a bad call to blow for it. He does not have the benefit of watching it in super-slow-mo and with zoom to see the freckles on the players faces.

I agree that Wenger does gripe. He has selective vision when it comes to mistakes by Ref's and he does complain. For Arsenal fans, they must be used to hearing it at this stage. But you have to take th rough with the smooth. Its his way of justifying that Arsenal if beaten were wronged. There are few managers and indeed fans that are magnanimous in defeat. Wenger, as has been proven over the years and last night, is not one of them. Liam Brady certainly is and Wenger could take a leaf out of his book.

Yes, I too was glad to see Larsson get a winners medal. He is a player that deserves it. Other players do too, such as Bergkamp, although does he already have one with Ajax from 1995 or had he already left? Henry who has a few years left also deserves one at some point and may get one, depending on if he goes, and to whom. I think he will go.

By the way, the heavy rain did take away from the game last night. If anything, it played into Arsenal's hands as it made the ball more difficult to control for all. At least 'god' was doing his part for Arsenal but it didnt come off.

redspider

Táck

dirkey_wynne wrote:

You say Liverpool fans are the best, well to be honest, of all the ones I know, for instance in here in work, all last year in build up to the final they were telling me how I should support them, for the English league etc. Yet now, this season, they were all bar none, supporting Barca last night.

im a liverpool fan. i was cheering arsenal. my friend, a liverpool fan who was in istanbul last year, was following arsenal. my grandad, a liverpool fan, was cheering arsenal. Bar None? tbh, the only person i know who was following barca last nite was my friend the spurs fan. and i wouldnt hold it against him!

hard luck arsenal. the sending off was the turning point. sol's goal was great but you cant defend for the remainder of the game against players like eto, ronaldhino, larsson and Guily and not expect them to be pressing you into an error! i was disapointed to hear wenger and henry whining after the final whistle about the ref. change the record lads.

dirkey_wynne

T&#225 wrote: »

im a liverpool fan. i was cheering arsenal. my friend, a liverpool fan who was in istanbul last year, was following arsenal. my grandad, a liverpool fan, was cheering arsenal. Bar None?

dirkey_wynne wrote:

of all the ones I know, for instance in here in work, all last year in build up to the final they were telling me how I should support them, for the English league etc. Yet now, this season, they were all bar none, supporting Barca last night.

.

RE*AC*TOR

Well dirkey I wouldn't suggest you work with a representative sample of liverpool fans.

As I already stated on this thread - I was rooting for Arsenal.

ghost26ie

the ref didnt cost arsenal the game. he made some weird decisions but none really costly. eboue dived but thats the linesman's fault for not seeing that. the barcelona goals where down more to tired defending. eboue should have played the whistle for the first. he was looking for offside when he should have been following eto. for the second almunia should have kept his legs together. nothing worse than seeing your keeper nutmegged. dont agree with andy gray's idea that he should have let it go by him because it looked like it was going wide.
henry should have took his chances but didnt. keeper did well for the first one, but henry made it to easy for the later chance.

dirkey_wynne

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Well dirkey I wouldn't suggest you work with a representative sample of liverpool fans.

As I already stated on this thread - I was rooting for Arsenal.

You could be well right there. I have to say though, none in here were shouting for Arsenal! Though my bro (pool fan) wasn't at the start of the match, but bizarrely was by the end. And he was voiceforously shouting for Barca at the start. Lol, it's a funny game, the way things like that will happen.

super_furry

The referee was dreadful, absolutly dreadful. Henry got booked for making one of the best tackles of his life. It was just too big a game for a referee that's not used to big games. You wouldn't give an eircom League ref the Champions League final.

I was sad to see Arsenal lose, but over the course of the campaign you can't argue with Barcelona winning it. It's just a shame that we never got to see exactly who would have won with 11 v 11, as I've a sneaking suspicion the Gunners would have turned them over.

Bacchus

I'm a Liverpool fan and tough I started not really supporting either team (just looking for a good game) I quickly started rooting for Arsenal. I think it was mainly for Henry though. He deserves a CL medal.
Well done to Arsenal for getting within 15 minutes of a win with only 10 men for most the game against one of the best attacking sides in the world. The ref was a disgrace. The goal should have stood and he could have been lenient with Lehmann for the sake of a better contest. Terrible decision that led to Arsenal's goal too.
What surprised me was how Arsenal seemed to dominate the midfield for sections of the game. I though Ljungberg and Hleb were outstanding and more than made up for the loss of Pires. Henry had moments of brilliance but not enough to make an impact on the game. The Arsenal defence played a great game too and I think tiredness eventually got them. Once the first goal went in, their resolve left them.
Barca had a poor first half I think but they were unlucky to have the goal disallowed and thengo down thanks to a dive. In the second half though they up'd the tempo and the impact of Larson was evident. You have to give credit to they're patience in wearing Arsenal down. They never seemed to panic and kept their heads. Once they got the equaliser it was over in my mind. I couldn't see Arsenal get back into it.

A note on Ronaldinio: I'v never really seen him play apart from Champs league but is he always that greedy with the ball. He's so selfish. There were loads of chances in that game where he could have laid the ball off to a better positioned player but instead went himself and more often than not lost posession. He didn't look like a good "team player" last night.

Slash/ED

Bacchus wrote:

The goal should have stood and he could have been lenient with Lehmann for the sake of a better contest.

Should this be a factor though? Surely the referees job is to implement the rules, irregardless of weather it's a show peice final or not or how it will effect the contest. If someone deserves to be sent off, that's their fault, the referee has to send him off.

Bacchus

I know what you're saying but look. Barca scored. No harm done. The ref could have let Lehmann off with a yellow. Sometimes a bit of discretion is needed by refs.

eirebhoy

Would you prefer to be losing 1-0 at half time to the best team in the world or winning 1-0 with 10 men? In hindsight Arsenal lost with 10 men so anything must be better than that. I think that before last night, if you had asked people would they prefer to be beating Brazil at half time in the world cup final with 10 men or losing 1-0 at half time with 11 most would choose the former. At the time of the sending off I thought Barca had been hard done by.

LegacyUser

Roddy23 wrote:

And I will be reporting Cheesedude for his remark earlier in the thread "pr!cks". i am not a r@t but I felt that this sort of comment was well out of order. I have just come back from the pub tonight, and have had my fair share of banter, but in fairness nobody has resorted to this sort of under hand name calling.

I wasn't calling Campbell or the Arsenal team pricks. I was calling the ref and his linesmen pricks because it should have been 1 - 1 @ that stage and not 1 - 0.

I said it once and I will say it again, Arsenal deserved nothing and they got it too. Barcelona deserved to win it last year with their performances too and they didn't but they did this year. I can see this team going places if they just get another key defender and a proper full back.

therecklessone

super_furry wrote:

It was just too big a game for a referee that's not used to big games.

Link

UEFA events:
His rise began with the UEFA European Under-18 Championship in Spain in 1994, and was followed in 1997 by the UEFA-CAF Meridian Cup in Portugal and the FIFA World Youth Championship. A fourth official at UEFA EURO 2000™, he was on board for the finals in Portugal four years later having also travelled to the Far East for the 2002 FIFA World Cup. A regular in UEFA club competition since 2001, he also had the honour of taking charge of the 2004 UEFA Super Cup between FC Porto and Valencia CF.

Top appointments:
Hauge got this campaign going by overseeing two FIFA World Cup qualifiers and Udinese Calcio’s 3-2 defeat of Sporting Clube de Portugal in UEFA Champions League qualifying. He also took charge of three group-stage matches before being appointed for FC Barcelona's 2-1 win at Chelsea FC in the first knockout round and then AC Milan’s 3-1 home success against Olympique Lyonnais in the quarter-finals.

Hardly a novice.

ghost26ie

okidoki987 wrote:

Why doesn't the top match of the season have a ref from Germany or Italy?

because most italian referees are on the take.

Jivin Turkey

cheesedude wrote:

I said it once and I will say it again, Arsenal deserved nothing and they got it too. Barcelona deserved to win it last year with their performances too and they didn't but they did this year. I can see this team going places if they just get another key defender and a proper full back.

How did Barcelona "deserve to win it" last year? They were eliminated in the last 16 conceeding five goals over two legs. And in response to your telegraphed "the last goal shouldn't have stood" comeback, do you not remember the Drogba sending off? Swings and roundabouts?

There was plenty of football left to play regardless.

I also think it's harsh to say Arsenal deserved nothing last night. They battled almightily, just as they did throughout the tournament, and came ever so close. I don't think anyone could have begrudged them the title had they won it. Every team needs a bit of luck.

GuanYin

Interestingly the ref now says that he shouldn't have sent Lehman off.

I think the guy is more of a jok enow than I did during the game.

LegacyUser

Jivin Turkey wrote:

How did Barcelona "deserve to win it" last year? They were eliminated in the last 16 conceeding five goals over two legs. And in response to your telegraphed "the last goal shouldn't have stood" comeback, do you not remember the Drogba sending off? Swings and roundabouts?

There was plenty of football left to play regardless.

I also think it's harsh to say Arsenal deserved nothing last night. They battled almightily, just as they did throughout the tournament, and came ever so close. I don't think anyone could have begrudged them the title had they won it. Every team needs a bit of luck.

Barcelona have been playing the best football the past two seasons of any team on the planet. They deserved to win it on performances alone last year. The Chelsea game was a joke. They didn't deserve to lose it.

The best team won the tournament. I just wish it could have been 11 v 11.

super_furry

cheesedude wrote:

Barcelona have been playing the best football the past two seasons of any team on the planet. They deserved to win it on performances alone last year. The Chelsea game was a joke. They didn't deserve to lose it.

Rubbish, Chelsea outplayed, out-thought and out-fought them. I'm not one to stick up for Mourinho but Chelsea were the much better team over two legs. Yes Barcelona were entertaining and good to watch last season, but so were Newcastle under Kevin Keegan.

RE*AC*TOR

To a large extent I agree with a lot of Henry said, especially regarding Ronadlinho - he was largely absent - he is as much of a circus sidewhow as a footballer. When they played Chelsea I called Ronaldinho a fair-weather footballer. At the time I meant that he can play well and do all his fancy little tricks when the team are playing well. In contrast during that match, Robben ran Barca ragged for large parts of the game - when Chelsea were down to 10 men.

There is a huge myth surrounding Ronaldinho, too often propogated by people "dazzled" by his flicks. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good player. Best player in the world? Hardly. He's not even the best player at Barca.

super_furry

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

There is a huge myth surrounding Ronaldinho, too often propogated by people "dazzled" by his flicks. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good player. Best player in the world? Hardly. He's not even the best player at Barca.

I wouldn't argue with that at all, I'd much rather have Eto'o in my team than Ronaldinho. Highligts and Nike adverts can make a player look much better than the are.

yop

Hard luck Arsenal, was rooting for them but to be honest happy enough to see either team win it as they have produced the most exciting football over the last year.

Strange one on Lehmann, one part of me reckons they goal should have stood and yellow card, other says straight red with the goal standing.

Lovely header by Campbell.

Thought ref was shocking.

In the end Barca shaded it, Henry IF he had put away chances he loves to score in the PL then it would have been so different. Shame about his poor sportsmanship afterwards.

LegacyUser

super_furry wrote:

Rubbish, Chelsea outplayed, out-thought and out-fought them. I'm not one to stick up for Mourinho but Chelsea were the much better team over two legs. Yes Barcelona were entertaining and good to watch last season, but so were Newcastle under Kevin Keegan.

Glad to see you have an opinion. i just don't agree with it.

LegacyUser

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

There is a huge myth surrounding Ronaldinho, too often propogated by people "dazzled" by his flicks. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good player. Best player in the world? Hardly. He's not even the best player at Barca.

That's what he himself said in a four four two article. He is so modest. But who cares? he is the best player on the planet. He has won every individual award you can, world player of the year twice in succession. He is the greatest living player in the world. Just to make me laugh at your ridiculous statment, who is the best player in the world in your opinion?

RE*AC*TOR

cheesedude wrote:

That's what he himself said in a four four two article. He is so modest. But who cares? he is the best player on the planet. He has won every individual award you can, world player of the year twice in succession. He is the greatest living player in the world. Just to make me laugh at your ridiculous statment, who is the best player in the world in your opinion?

I don't know who's the best player in the world - I wouldn't consider myself nearly knowlegeable enough to be able to answer that properly. However, I do have enough knowledge of the game to know that he is not. I have no vendetta against the guy, he's a nice guy - which adds fuel to the myth...

"oh he's so skillful, and look at that big smile - what a hero - lets give him an award".

Individual awards are more or less meaningless. Its a broad definition, but how do you compare players who play in completely different positions? How many goalkeepers have won the world player of the year award? What about defenders? You see my point. Its Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Anyway, I'm not here to bash Ronaldinho, he undoubtedly is a great talent - but cannot live up to the myth. If you asked me if I'd trade Gerrard for Ronadlinho - I'd say no without hesitation.

dirkey_wynne

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I don't know who's the best player in the world - I wouldn't consider myself nearly knowlegeable enough to be able to answer that properly. However, I do have enough knowledge of the game to know that he is not. I have no vendetta against the guy, he's a nice guy - which adds fuel to the myth...

Ok, you're not knowledgable enough. Who would you consider knowledgable enough to make out that he's the best player in the world? The people who voted him that twice? And lauding Gerrard as a better talent than Ronaldinho? ROFLMAO

LegacyUser

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I don't know who's the best player in the world - I wouldn't consider myself nearly knowlegeable enough to be able to answer that properly. However, I do have enough knowledge of the game to know that he is not. I have no vendetta against the guy, he's a nice guy - which adds fuel to the myth...

"oh he's so skillful, and look at that big smile - what a hero - lets give him an award".

Individual awards are more or less meaningless. Its a broad definition, but how do you compare players who play in completely different positions? How many goalkeepers have won the world player of the year award? What about defenders? You see my point. Its Roy of the Rovers stuff.

Anyway, I'm not here to bash Ronaldinho, he undoubtedly is a great talent - but cannot live up to the myth. If you asked me if I'd trade Gerrard for Ronadlinho - I'd say no without hesitation.

Well glad you admitted you don't have sufficient knowledge because I couldn't care less. The fact of the matter is, he is the worlds greatest player. Hardly anyone would disagree with that.

RE*AC*TOR

cheesedude wrote:

Well glad you admitted you don't have sufficient knowledge because I couldn't care less. The fact of the matter is, he is the worlds greatest player. Hardly anyone would disagree with that.

well there's at least one other poster who agree with me - see above

Dirkey wrote:

Ok, you're not knowledgable enough. Who would you consider knowledgable enough to make out that he's the best player in the world? The people who voted him that twice? And lauding Gerrard as a better talent than Ronaldinho? ROFLMAO

As i already said those awards generally go to forwards / attacking midfielders. Other types of footballers generally don't get included so those awards are inherently flawed and biased.

As to your second point, it depends on what you mean by "talent". If you mean ball control and technique then I'll conceede. However, there are plenty of other attributes that make a great player. If I am to be honest though and picture liverpool with gerrard and without ronaldinho or with ronaldinho and without gerrard - I'd definetly take the former.

Shaque attack

indeed ronaldinho may be the most skillful player in the world, but that doesnt necessarily make him the best in the world.

football involves defence as well as attack.

Ruskie4Rent

But he is.

Shaque attack

lol, maybe. i'm not so sure, i should watch a bit more la liga i suppose

blu_sonic

Isn't Pelé still alive? he gets my vote when he crokes Maradonna if he goes Cryff, then it gets tricky.

There is ony 1 way Little Ronnie goes Forward.

IMO: He is the world greatest attacking player, but i think there are better all round players