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Bolivia, Venezuela, Chad: odd one out?

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  • 16-05-2006 12:49pm
    #1
    johnthesavage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭


    http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2006/05/16/a-well-of-hypocrisy/

    Great article by George Monbiot which asks a simple question: why is one government denounced for using oil money to help the poor, while another that uses it to buy guns is not?
    The answer, of course, is that one of them hurts oil company profits while the other does not.


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    #2
    Parsley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Parsley


    I'm disappointed with the often-reasonable Economist magazine on this one- their statement that this move would make the people poorer has no basis in fact WHATSOEVER. Effectively they are saying that ther Morales government is corrupt, barely a few weeks after it has taken office (in which time they have been accused of no corrupt acts). The amount of sheer lies that the newspapers get away with is unbelievable. The Bolivian government should sue the lot of em.


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    #3
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Stupid question, but given that Monbiot's article is about Bolivia vs Chad....why is Venezuela in the title of the thread?


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    #4
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    bonkey wrote:
    Stupid question, but given that Monbiot's article is about Bolivia vs Chad....why is Venezuela in the title of the thread?

    try reading the "chaves" and "anti american" thread. chaves is taxing the oil companies and de militarising Venezuala.


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    #5
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    bonkey wrote:
    Stupid question, but given that Monbiot's article is about Bolivia vs Chad....why is Venezuela in the title of the thread?
    Venezuela gets a mention in the article also.


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    #6
    AdrianR
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭AdrianR


    Stupid question, but given that Monbiot's article is about Bolivia vs Chad....why is Venezuela in the title of the thread?

    From the article:
    "If, by contrast, Morales does as he has promised and uses the extra revenues from Bolivia’s gas fields in the same way as Hugo Chavez has used the money from Venezuela’s oil, the result is likely to be a major improvement in his people’s welfare."


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    #7
    johnthesavage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭johnthesavage


    bonkey wrote:
    Stupid question, but given that Monbiot's article is about Bolivia vs Chad....why is Venezuela in the title of the thread?
    Point taken, the article only mentioned Venezuela while focussing on Bolivia and Chad. I should have pointed out my view that the campaign of disinformation and scaremongering against Morales is similar to that against Chavez, and is orchestrated for the same reasons. Meanwhile the very real abuses of human rights in places like Chad are, by comparison, almost unreported.


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    #8
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    johnthesavage wrote:
    is orchestrated for the same reasons.

    There are two main reasons that I can see.

    The first, as already pointed out, is that when the major western governments generally talk about the welfare of the people, they all-too-often mean the welfare of the corporations making money off the people.

    The second is even simpler. Bolivia and Venezuela are looking more and more socialist as time goes by. This is unacceptable, because - as we all know - socialism doesn't work and capitalism is far superior and better for everyone.

    On further reflection...they're really not two seperate reasons, are they....

    jc


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    #9
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    ISAW wrote:
    try reading the "chaves" and "anti american" thread. chaves is taxing the oil companies and de militarising Venezuala.

    De-militarising? This is the same Chavez who wants to arm a million soldiers and is buying new combat aircraft?

    NTM


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    #10
    Parsley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Parsley


    Manic Moran wrote:
    De-militarising? This is the same Chavez who wants to arm a million soldiers and is buying new combat aircraft?

    NTM

    Demilitarising as in getting rid of the iron grip of the army on civil society, fomented over decades of US backed dictatorship.

    He is arming a million citizens and purchasing other equipment to defend Venezuela from the threats of the US and their proxies.


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    #11
    johnthesavage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭johnthesavage


    Manic Moran wrote:
    De-militarising? This is the same Chavez who wants to arm a million soldiers and is buying new combat aircraft?

    NTM
    Chavez is fearful of another coup attempt against him, so it's hardly surprising that he wants to arm his supporters and beef up the military. The possibility of invasion by the United States cannot be discounted either.

    That said, it is worrying to see large numbers of civilians being armed like this, but perhaps they feel it is necessary? As far as i know, participation in the reserve forces (and the regular armed forces) is entirely voluntary. If they started drafting, that would be another matter entirely.

    There's an interview with the commander of the Venezuelan army here, in which he explains the long term goal of reducing the role of the military in civilian life.


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    #12
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    Manic Moran wrote:
    De-militarising? This is the same Chavez who wants to arm a million soldiers and is buying new combat aircraft?

    NTM

    Aircraft are not economic for policing your own country or one you control. The Us have had complete Air Superiority over Iraq for a decade and it has not created any stable society.

    I referred to the constitution which Chaves drafted which seriously weaknes the ability of the military to organise and effect a coup.


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