Higher English

Naikon

Hi does anyone know if its a good idea moving from hons english to pass english is a good idea? I am starting sixth year in september and i find stuff like Macbeth and king lear torturous to study. I REALLY dont know what to do but i find english an immense pain and i dont know would pass ease the load.
I am not aiming for very high points as my interest in computing will probably mean i will end up going to an IT for third level. I am doing hons history but thats just cause i like it and i wouldent be getting A,s in it either(i think).
I find paper one easier as studying poetry and shakesphere bores the hell out of me.Any help appreciated.:cool:

Raphael

I'd suggest you give it till christmas of 6th year before you drop down. That way you can be more sure of whether you'll need it.

Spliffany692000

Hey I was thinking about droping in 5th year to but my teacher told me to stick it till the mocks and I did....I got a ggod grade and Im doing it for the leaving. I find king lear a pain in the ass and I still dont know it as well as I should!! As regaurds poetry I hated it in 5th year and then I learned more about it in 6th year and I totally love it now!!

Stick with it until your mocks...and then decide!! Its not a bad idea to do some study over the summer (something I wish I done) it doesnt matter if you dont need high points...its better to aim as high as you can...who knows you might be inspired to become a doctor!! Sure I wanted to be a teacher in 5th year and now Iv applied to be a midwife so dont put all your eggs in one basket!!

hope this was of help to you! Good luck

smemon

Naikon wrote:

my interest in computing will probably mean i will end up going to an IT for third level.

I find paper one easier as studying poetry and shakesphere bores the hell out of me.Any help appreciated.:cool:

you sound like a replica of me. boring boring poetry, useless king lear and generally hate reading and watching people drool over shakespeare's tripe. (he was definately gay).

i bluff paper 1, im sure you do too. ramble your way through the reading texts and do a decent essay.

if you've got the strength of mind and confidence to tackle a higher level paper - stick with it, no point in degrading yourself by mixing with the working class of education.

however if you're totally convinced english is a loada rubbish and you won't need it, drop down to make life easier on yourself. no point in killing yourself doing something you dont need or have to do.

im also doing computers in an IT after my year out next year, however im doing 6 hons subjects because im smart and stuff. dont do higher maths cuz i couldnt be bothered basically. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Naikon

I think i will stick with it for the moment. Its probably the fact i despise paper 2 why i am not a great fan of english. Smemon is right as i do bluff paper one considering i can write decent stories/speeches/ect but when it comes to paper 2 i just lose all hope mainly because i can never see myself EVER using such absolute h.o.r.s.e.s.h.i.t like MACBETH and poetry. For a country that relies strongly on software and hardware vendors as an intergral part of the economy i am disgusted that the leaving cert TECHNOLOGY subject wont be examined till 2009(something would benefit me mildy:rolleyes: )
Businesses wont need people who can recite the works of Shakesphere for instance(leave that to arts litrature students). For those of you that will complain about this i feel english should be more focused on writing stuff that is usefull i.e Technical writing but would contain the OPTION of studying litrature which bears little or no relavance to modern society(cept death and taxes:))
Also for a certificate that is listed as a foundation level 5 cert in the national framework,why is it such a bloody out of date pain? I recently lost marks in Business for writing a flash device as a means of data storage and got nothing cause "it wasnt on the marking scheme" Honestly i didnt even include a floppy drive in my last system build. I have went a bit off topic but i just want to point something out. By the way i am taking six subjects which include English,Geog,History,Physics,Business all higher cept maths which i like but higher eats up so much time and is much more difficult comapared to the relativly easier pass course. I will wait to the results come out to decide.
I dont do langauges as i hate french and the irish course and also the realisation that i dont need them.(why does computer science in ucd for example require a pass in 2 langauges? oh and just cos they are easy to pass isnt an excuse to study irrelevant subjects.
note to self:gotta stop talking so much:)

By the way good luck in the leaving everyone;)

Lord Oz

Yeah, you might as well stick with it until your mocks.

Psychedelik

For a country that relies strongly on software and hardware vendors as an intergral part of the economy i am disgusted that the leaving cert TECHNOLOGY subject wont be examined till 2009(something would benefit me mildy )

Totally agree. Government ministers complain of low interest in computing at 3rd level and the reason is simple: the lack of computing/IT in 2nd level. It's a pain alright, because some of us would be kick ass at it!! :mad:

As for King Lear, I fooking love it! I was moderately into Romeo and Juliet, but found King Lear fascinating. There are so many philosophical levels to it, and some of it is very amusing too. But each to their own.

Naikon

Dont get me wrong. I wouldent mind English if it had optional classic elements that you could choose to study. I am not an antichrist who believes the banning and ignorance of art and litrature is right. Without such stuff society would be a bit....strange to say the least and would sound a little hitlerish. But forcing people to study stuff that doesent benefit them is ridiculous not to mention the idea of one terminal exam is being used to ASSESS people eligibility for third level. OUR damm goverment fails to see that this horribly out of date education system is restricting TRUE learning i.e learning that is beyond who can cram the most information onto an exam page in three hours. Rant over but this is truely how i feel about the "education system". Ah well best stop moaning and "get on with it" as most people say;)

Naikon

I know this is off topic but is art a good subject to take up in a year?
Also i have never done Art but if its like woodwork i will defo give it a miss;)

NADA

You know. You guys make excellent points. The education system in this country is absolutely ridiculous. We spend our days learning pointless subjects so we are eligable to learn what is of use to us in college and university.

English: Yes it is utterly useless. We should learn to write stuff that is of use. Shakespeare was definately gay. King Lear is utter cack in my opinion. I can't believe that there are people out there who actually enjoy poetry. On my mock paper "I did enjoy(did not enjoy) the peotry of elizabeth Bishop" Who the **** would enjoy poetry. ok there are fans and I respect that but the average 17 year old would rather be in bed with leprosy! Also what sort of education systems condones lying! Does somebody in Athlone actually believe that Students will enjoy poetry. I think not! Also English is too subjective. To me a spade is a spade. Why do I get 60% all the time when I am crytal clear and on the point. Its because I don't have style and my writing is boring but totally accurate! Why does the guy who does the exam through his arse do better than me!

Maths: Well well. One of my better subjects but still boring and completly useless. I can't think of other flaws in it. Maybe I will later

Geography: Another absolute joke. It is one mistake after another this year. I've been doing it since 2004 and only got a marking scheme last month. Second of all the field study. I mean do the examiners themselves even know how its to be done? Again rubbish. We should have all left it blank. Then we would still have been able to get a1s as the marking scheme would have to be adjusted as not to **** up the CAO. Third of all. It's all bull****. I am going to be asked a question on a region and I will make up a country that suits me. They can't prove it will exist or not and if the examiner really cares he should get a life.

Accounting: ha is this even a subject. People might be under the impression that this subject is usefull and you can become an accountant out of it and use it after school. Wrong. It is "A"able without even understanding how double entry works. You just gotta learn the method off. In two years of accounting I have learnt nothing except that if I memorise the layout of each question I could do the paper without reading the questions and only needing the numbers. Gor chrsitsake the figures are still given in the right order!

Physics: Good god this is stupid. So much is assumed in this subject. You might think it's interesting but it's impractical. Every calculation involved gets you an answer you can't use from a formula that arises only in impossible situations. When are you going to measure the potential energy of an object and when on earth will it be in a vacuum and still be useful! How often is there no friction acting on a body. Also most of the proofs are ignore as they are complicated and how and why the heck would you want to know the waveslength of your favourite colour

German: Oral is cack. Learnt off. Very structured. Unfair and your career is in the hands of a complete stranger who will often have personality problem.

Irish: Don't get me started on this one. Utterly a waste of time. Fnne Gael want to make it optional and rightly so but that conservative b***** by the name of Mary Hannifan says that it is growing. When will these fundamentalist freaks realise that Irish is essentially dead and there is no way it can be arrived. Lost cause. Secondly it is so ****e. You don't use it. It's hard. It is compulsory. Does that Hanaffin Woman think she is doing it any favours by making it compulsory because she is killing it! Thirdly I cannot stand the argument that it is part of our culture. It as much a part of our culture as a siesta! I have never spoken irish with the exception of the oral.
The oral is another thing that gets me. They are looking for a natural conversation. How can this occur in a manufactered conversation in which you discuss yourself. That is an unnatural conversation and how often is someone going ask you about sport and go to something like " Do you think Doctor Neary was a nut for histerectomies!" This conversation cannot be natural. It is a manufactured conversation.Actually its not a conversation. Its an interrigation.In a natural conversation you can ask questions. also sliochts. Easy marks but what does this teach you. "look i;m a swot and wasted about 2 hours of my life reading each of these so that you could listen to me bore you senseless for the 67th time today". All for what. I mean seriously. This syllabus needs revision. Irish poetry is diabolical. There are damn all poets and the are all miserable eejits.

Seiously education in this country is bollocks. Ironically they guys in controll of education are uneducated in the area of educating. Funds are poured into third level and to enough into first. Serious error as you have to inspire the future engineers doctors teachers etc while they are young.

THe Leaving is not an intelligence test. Its not even a test. It's just process of determining who goes to what collage based on the ever frightening variable of who studies the most useful info. Also you can come out of the Leaving with 600 points and still be an absolute twat!

Naikon

those statements are so VERY VERY true NADA:)

JC 2K3

NADA wrote:

English: Yes it is utterly useless. We should learn to write stuff that is of use. Shakespeare was definately gay. King Lear is utter cack in my opinion. I can't believe that there are people out there who actually enjoy poetry. On my mock paper "I did enjoy(did not enjoy) the peotry of elizabeth Bishop" Who the **** would enjoy poetry. ok there are fans and I respect that but the average 17 year old would rather be in bed with leprosy! Also what sort of education systems condones lying! Does somebody in Athlone actually believe that Students will enjoy poetry. I think not! Also English is too subjective. To me a spade is a spade. Why do I get 60% all the time when I am crytal clear and on the point. Its because I don't have style and my writing is boring but totally accurate! Why does the guy who does the exam through his arse do better than me!

You are perfectly entitled to express your hatred towards poetry in your answers. Why did you lie about Elizabeth Bishop? Because you were too lazy to actually read her poetry and just learnt off some teacher's notes? Paper 2 challenges you to anylise written texts, evaluate them and express your opinion on them.

btw, who cares if Shakespeare was gay? If people giving out about the education system are dumbass homophobes then I definately feel it should stay the same.

NADA wrote:

Maths: Well well. One of my better subjects but still boring and completly useless. I can't think of other flaws in it. Maybe I will later

Boring? I love maths and it makes you a much more logical person. Probably should be optional, altough considering how easy pass is it's no harm.

NADA wrote:

Geography: Another absolute joke. It is one mistake after another this year. I've been doing it since 2004 and only got a marking scheme last month. Second of all the field study. I mean do the examiners themselves even know how its to be done? Again rubbish. We should have all left it blank. Then we would still have been able to get a1s as the marking scheme would have to be adjusted as not to **** up the CAO. Third of all. It's all bull****. I am going to be asked a question on a region and I will make up a country that suits me. They can't prove it will exist or not and if the examiner really cares he should get a life.

I hated Geography and therefore didn't pick it, but it's OPTIONAL, so if you hate it why did you pick it???

NADA wrote:

Accounting: ha is this even a subject. People might be under the impression that this subject is usefull and you can become an accountant out of it and use it after school. Wrong. It is "A"able without even understanding how double entry works. You just gotta learn the method off. In two years of accounting I have learnt nothing except that if I memorise the layout of each question I could do the paper without reading the questions and only needing the numbers. Gor chrsitsake the figures are still given in the right order!

I don't do it, but once again, if you think it's unnecessary and pointless learning properly(as opposed to learning how the exam works) then why did you pick it?

NADA wrote:

Physics: Good god this is stupid. So much is assumed in this subject. You might think it's interesting but it's impractical. Every calculation involved gets you an answer you can't use from a formula that arises only in impossible situations. When are you going to measure the potential energy of an object and when on earth will it be in a vacuum and still be useful! How often is there no friction acting on a body. Also most of the proofs are ignore as they are complicated and how and why the heck would you want to know the waveslength of your favourite colour

For God's sake, do you really think they're going to make students just starting physics deal with complicated questions involving lots of forces at odd angles etc. You have to start with the basics, in college it gets more complicated, do applied maths if you find the questions too easy. As for the proofs being hard, they're not, in fact they're piss easy, just like the subject. It is important to understand that light is a wave, how do you think they tell how far away stars are, how fast cars are travelling etc.

NADA wrote:

German: Oral is cack. Learnt off. Very structured. Unfair and your career is in the hands of a complete stranger who will often have personality problem.

The point of the oral is to show the examiner how good your German is, it won't be structured if it's apparent to the examiner that you have simply learnt off stuff, and you probably won't get an A.

NADA wrote:

Irish: Don't get me started on this one. Utterly a waste of time. Fnne Gael want to make it optional and rightly so but that conservative b***** by the name of Mary Hannifan says that it is growing. When will these fundamentalist freaks realise that Irish is essentially dead and there is no way it can be arrived. Lost cause. Secondly it is so ****e. You don't use it. It's hard. It is compulsory. Does that Hanaffin Woman think she is doing it any favours by making it compulsory because she is killing it! Thirdly I cannot stand the argument that it is part of our culture. It as much a part of our culture as a siesta! I have never spoken irish with the exception of the oral.
The oral is another thing that gets me. They are looking for a natural conversation. How can this occur in a manufactered conversation in which you discuss yourself. That is an unnatural conversation and how often is someone going ask you about sport and go to something like " Do you think Doctor Neary was a nut for histerectomies!" This conversation cannot be natural. It is a manufactured conversation.Actually its not a conversation. Its an interrigation.In a natural conversation you can ask questions. also sliochts. Easy marks but what does this teach you. "look i;m a swot and wasted about 2 hours of my life reading each of these so that you could listen to me bore you senseless for the 67th time today". All for what. I mean seriously. This syllabus needs revision. Irish poetry is diabolical. There are damn all poets and the are all miserable eejits.

Irish poetry sucks and it probably should be optional, but it's not hard. I don't understand how half the country's youth have no Irish after 8 years of learning it, I'm in an all-Irish school, so I can't really comment though... better teachers at primary are needed.


btw, what do you hope to do in college?

NADA

JC 2K3 wrote:

You are perfectly entitled to express your hatred towards poetry in your answers. Why did you lie about Elizabeth Bishop? Because you were too lazy to actually read her poetry and just learnt off some teacher's notes? Paper 2 challenges you to anylise written texts, evaluate them and express your opinion on them.

Yeah that's why I lied. Why would I want to make it even harder for myself and actually try and understand the poetry!

JC 2K3 wrote:

btw, who cares if Shakespeare was gay? If people giving out about the education system are dumbass homophobes then I definately feel it should stay the same.

What?

JC 2K3 wrote:

Boring? I love maths and it makes you a much more logical person. Probably should be optional, altough considering how easy pass is it's no harm.

Suppose.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I hated Geography and therefore didn't pick it, but it's OPTIONAL, so if you hate it why did you pick it???

I didn't know it was going to be so **** and it's not my fault the department can't tell their right from their left.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I don't do it, but once again, if you think it's unnecessary and pointless learning properly(as opposed to learning how the exam works) then why did you pick it?

I didn't know it would be like this when I picked it either. Everybody says its hard and mathematical. I believe them but discovered recently that it is not at all.

JC 2K3 wrote:

For God's sake, do you really think they're going to make students just starting physics deal with complicated questions involving lots of forces at odd angles etc. You have to start with the basics, in college it gets more complicated, do applied maths if you find the questions too easy. As for the proofs being hard, they're not, in fact they're piss easy, just like the subject. It is important to understand that light is a wave, how do you think they tell how far away stars are, how fast cars are travelling etc.

Yeah I suppose it's true but it's still utterly inpractical and no good to you without going to third level to study it further.

JC 2K3 wrote:

The point of the oral is to show the examiner how good your German is, it won't be structured if it's apparent to the examiner that you have simply learnt off stuff, and you probably won't get an A.

The german Oral is by nature structured. There are five minutes general converstaion and the other 10 minutes are story telling and role playing. I got 95% in the Oral in the mock and I think I did even better in the real thing. Overall in the mock I scraped 90%!

JC 2K3 wrote:

Irish poetry sucks and it probably should be optional, but it's not hard. I don't understand how half the country's youth have no Irish after 8 years of learning it, I'm in an all-Irish school, so I can't really comment though... better teachers at primary are needed.

You do undersatnd. It's because it is taught in a disasterous manner!

JC 2K3 wrote:

btw, what do you hope to do in college?

Civil structural and environmental engineering or computer science linguistics and German! Why?

JC 2K3

NADA wrote:

Yeah that's why I lied. Why would I want to make it even harder for myself and actually try and understand the poetry!

Because it's one of the few areas in the leaving where you actually get to give your own opinion and you're complaining about the LC being too much about learning stuff off.

NADA wrote:

What?

I don't like it when people refer to people being gay as a bad thing.

NADA wrote:

I didn't know it was going to be so **** and it's not my fault the department can't tell their right from their left.

You should have researched the content of the course etc. Having a hate of geography I can empathise with your situation(we had to do it in 4th yr, ugh...)

NADA wrote:

I didn't know it would be like this when I picked it either. Everybody says its hard and mathematical. I believe them but discovered recently that it is not at all.

People say a lot of things, like physics and honours maths are hard. Don't believe everything you hear. Accounting is just a load of book keeping right? Boooooring.

NADA wrote:

Yeah I suppose it's true but it's still utterly inpractical and no good to you without going to third level to study it further.

Why would anyone pick physics if they didn't think it'd be useful to them?

NADA wrote:

The german Oral is by nature structured. There are five minutes general converstaion and the other 10 minutes are story telling and role playing. I got 95% in the Oral in the mock and I think I did even better in the real thing. Overall in the mock I scraped 90%!

Yeah, ok. Fair enough. I personally don't like learning languages in school and hate the fact that universities require one(albeit a D3 in pass).

NADA wrote:

You do undersatnd. It's because it is taught in a disasterous manner!

Yeah, I guess so. At least Irish is becoming semi-fashionable these days though, but shouldn't be compulsory.

NADA wrote:

Civil structural and environmental engineering or computer science linguistics and German! Why?

LC Physics, Maths, German and Geography should give you a good grounding before you enter college then surely?

smemon

oh yeah that's what im talking about. *high 5's NADA*

tell it as it is, loada rubbish and at least 20 years outta date.

you're right when you say no-one likes poetry, who in the right 18yr old mind does? (no offence, rockerette, d4gurl etc.. all the brains)

this forum is full of 600 pointers and A students who love education and get a kick out of reading books. :rolleyes:

reality is, that's not how it rolls on the street. the average 320 student sure as hell doesnt like poetry, is brutal at irish, can't speak french and couldnt be bothered adding letters and square roots :cool:

it's all a big bluffers test - see who can bluff the best - a taste of how the government and politics runs. he who can talk the best - gets 600 points.

Muiriosa

smemon wrote:

it's all a big bluffers test - see who can bluff the best - a taste of how the government and politics runs. he who can talk the best - gets 600 points.

No I have to disagree with you there Smemon. Some of the biggest bluffers I know will only get 600 in their wildest dreams

I have to take offense to your comments about people who like education and poetry etc ect... You're talking pure crap. I won't be drawn to say more except our country was founded on principles of education and culture.
If ya don't like them, why don't you just accept them and stop the whole rebelious act and painting every Leaving cert student with the same brush as if we don't give a ****. Some of us do.

GrumPy

smemon wrote:

this forum is full of 600 pointers and A students who love education and get a kick out of reading books. :rolleyes:

I agree with most of nada's points, too but he IS ONE of those 600pointers....

smemon

Irish GrumPy wrote:

I agree with most of nada's points, too but he IS ONE of those 600pointers....

i dont care, he knows how it rolls and isnt in a bubble.

im a 500pointer on my day

GrumPy

smemon wrote:

i dont care, he knows how it rolls and isnt in a bubble.

im a 500pointer on my day

well i do, cause he is a smart basitd and in my class

NADA

Won't be getting 600. This Forum is full of them though!

JC 2K3

FFS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THE LEAVING CERT!!

If you think it's a load of bollocks then don't do it, don't bitch about it and do it anyway, that's hypocrisy.

smemon

JC 2K3 wrote:

FFS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THE LEAVING CERT!!

If you think it's a load of bollocks then don't do it, don't bitch about it and do it anyway, that's hypocrisy.

oh yeah, lets not do the leaving and claim the dole for the rest of our lives or work in tesco :rolleyes:

it makes sense to drop out of school after 14 years of education :rolleyes:

i'd say 90% of students don't want to do the leaving. the same way a lot of people dont want to work 40hrs a week - they're just in it for the money, they NEED it to survive.

the problem with this board is that we don't get the rif-raf, the average paddy of the street. it's full of inherited royal perfectionists.

JC 2K3

Lol, there's probably loads of ways you could be successful without the Leaving if you wanted, but that aside; what is it you have a problem with exactly?

JackKelly

I cannot believe how completely and utterly blinkered and ignorant some people on this board are. It's almost pathetic.

A lot of people here seem to love the sound of their own voice. You write lines and lines about how the LC is such an absolute joke. A nice example:

Maths: Well well. One of my better subjects but still boring and completly useless.

This is one of the stupidest setences i have ever read. Maths is the building block of almost everything around you. It's the basis of almost every technology you can imagine. "Not art" you'll say, but thats fine, because you seem to have even more speil about how poety is "such a waste of time", people don't need to read or write poems. What exactly is of use?
Again, not Physics, Jees, How often is there no friction acting on a body? I'll tell you now, if you were introducted to "proper" physics in 6th year, there would be thread after thread about how unfair it is to expect LC students do college physics.

The Leaving is not an intelligence test. Its not even a test. It's just process of determining who goes to what collage based on the ever frightening variable of who studies the most useful info. Also you can come out of the Leaving with 600 points and still be an absolute twat!

It's apparent (or should be) to everyone that the Leaving Cert is not an intelligence test. It never has been and never will be. Suprisingly that's the point. It's a mechanism to get those who want to go to college, into college. And let me tell you, you'll have more than enough opportunity to use your intelligence when/if you get there. Of course the material you learn in accounting isn't going to make you an accountant. Nor is the Geography you read through going to make you a geographer. It' material to be tested on. That is all. Nothing else. These are things you should have realised.

On a little side note, you will do so much better in the exams, if you at least try to enjoy the subjects as practical or impractical as they are.

Onto Smemon.

Smemon wrote:

this forum is full of 600 pointers and A students who love education and get a kick out of reading books.

This outweighs everything else in pure idiocy. This forum is a Leaving Cert forum. It's here for those smart enough to realise its importance to help each other along. While you may think they "love education", i think it's more accurate to say, they love their future and know that the LC is the next step there.

Smemon wrote:

reality is, that's not how it rolls on the street. the average 320 student sure as hell doesnt like poetry, is brutal at irish, can't speak french and couldnt be bothered adding letters and square roots

I doubt you'd have a clue about how it roll on the street with an attitude which labels ordinary level students as the working class of the Leaving Cert.

Smemon wrote:

it's all a big bluffers test - see who can bluff the best - a taste of how the government and politics runs. he who can talk the best - gets 600 points.

Hopefully you can be the first to comfirm that it's not a bluffers test. You can't bluff what you don't know.

The funniest part of this whole thread:

Smemon wrote:

no point in degrading yourself by mixing with the working class of education.

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blah blah blah no point,stupid,i have an alternative,im smart blah b
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oh yeah, lets not do the leaving and claim the dole for the rest of our lives or work in tesco

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further crap
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the problem with this board is that we don't get the rif-raf, the average paddy of the street. it's full of inherited royal perfectionists.

I think we can all rest assured, that the only person here that's doesn't get the "rif-raf" , is you. Come out with anymore crap like this and you're banned.

JackKelly

To the original poster, stick with the English a while longer. I hated English in 5th year, was getting D's and E's. (The teacher once thought i had copied my homework because i got a C in it) I stuck it out and ended up enjoying it and getting an A2. Once you write structured essays with each paragraph having a proper point, you'll do well.