The next up an coming area in Dublin

GallicProphet

Where is it going to be ?

(has to be inside the M50 / and with potential to improve greatly, not if it's already gentrified and posh )

I think Cabra was mad a year or so ago when I was looking there.

dunno if this is still going on.

and if you' re a local homeowner, please do not nominate your own area, that 's just plain cheating ( I don't own in CABRA )

arctic lemur

East Wall, theres a proposed development for there at the mo. Don't move to Nottingham St/ North Strand.
Abbotstown is meant to be ok also and there a good few developments out Clarehall area.

Sponge Bob

fatima mansions

The_Conductor

Up and coming areas?
I would have to vote Maynooth into first place. The railway line is due to be electrified in 3 years time and there are proposals to have a service equal in frequency to DART up and running by 2012 (its not bad at all at the moment!).
Going out in the other direction- Kildare Town- ditto, on the railway line, good transport, railway due to be electrified shortly, house prices more reasonable than inside the M50 etc.

Out of choice, I would have to go for Maynooth though- it is a nice university town and a pleasant place to be. The M4 into Dublin and West will be helped immeasurably when the junctions and roundabouts going into Dublin are replaced (e.g. Newcastle junction due to go altogether, M50 roundabout due to be a flyover etc)

Maynooth also has a more exclusive factor than a lot of other places- they have minimised the number of apartment complexes, and do seem to have put some thought into their town planning. I'm baffled that Kildare Town is under the same council- they are making a right dogs dinner of it there.

Sleipnir

artic lemur wrote:

East Wall, theres a proposed development for there at the mo. Don't move to Nottingham St/ North Strand.
Abbotstown is meant to be ok also and there a good few developments out Clarehall area.

My mate is moving out of East Wall cos he said the knacker population has exploded over the past two years.

GallicProphet

Sponge Bob wrote:

fatima mansions

Spongebob I thought you were joking...

then I found this...
http://www.codema.ie/Projects/Housing/Fatima_Mansions_Regeneration.html

Maynooth and Kildare town maybe valid up and coming areas but I was
thinking of Metropolitan area only

FillSpectre

I would actually say North Strand. East wall is astill quite rough around the edges now but in 5 -10 years I could see it improving but it still has a lot of poor households in the area. North Strand has more and more professionals now and the longer residents seem to be a little bit bohemian.

Two major developemnets in the area the cinema and now the cemet works will make a difference.

East Wall has a larger area that would need to gentrify which I think will just take more time.

I think Cabra is still on the move up.

THe tricky thing is you need to decide where is bad and has the most chance of improving. None of the areas are really that bad so they aren't cheap.

Ballymun is probably the best chance at improving in truth.

Are there any areas people think will be destroyed or suffer a down turn? There are winners and loosers. Fuel prices could bite hard in 5 years so place without public transport could really suffer. I still have hope on biofuel and hydrogen.

spurious

I would say North Strand too.

The cinema development in particular will have a big effect. All the roads to the left as you come out of town have had a large influx of private owners (Bayview, Charleville etc.). The cul de sacs on the right of the road have been at a premium for years.

The redevelopment of the Courtney Place flats in Ballybough will have a positive knock on for the end of the Strand closer to the Fire Station, and will also be affected by the Readymix site.

sapper

They were saying the same thing about East Wall/North Strand when I first entered the property ladder 6 years ago - but the thing is it would take at least a generation, if not two before those areas actually became nice places to live. Sure they are throwing money at Spencer Dock etc., but you just have to walk a few hundred meters to squalor.

That said, I think anywhere in town is a better bet then outside the M50. The rental market these days in Dublin is mostly foreign workers and they want to live within walking distance. The planned Heuston-Connolly interconnector tunnel, the Macken Street bridge and the Luas extension makes the docklands a pretty sure bet (even though it ain't cheap now!), but I remain to be convinced that the rejuvenation will spread into East Wall

FillSpectre

THe thing is East Wall and North Strand are already different from each other IMHO. I think North Strand is a smaller area with newer residents. Generally a nicer area I think its biggest problem is location to bad areas.

garred

I'd have to nominate City West. New Aldi going up, shopping centre being built, luas coming, decent bus service. Also plenty of schools in the area. To be honest the prices of property there is starting to reflect this.

GallicProphet

Let's see...
by order of appearance in the thead.

-Cabra ( still booming but already quite expensive )

-Eastwall / Northstrand ( will benefit from regeneration and Dockland but possibly still dodgy right now ? )

-Fatima Mansions ( was this a joke ... I still cant make up my mind )

-Ballymun ( long shot... but can only improve I guess ... Metro is likely to go thru there )

- Docklands ( I d have to second that one... seems to me this area will become the "new" city centre over the next few years, but isnt that reflected in the price of property there already ?)

- CityWest. ( no comment I dont know this area...)

TBC

Victor

GallicProphet wrote:

-Fatima Mansions ( was this a joke ... I still cant make up my mind )

Has Luas, will travel. Part of the area looks like 1970s interface Belfast. The flats are being demolished and redeveloped and Cork Street has been rebuilt and is being repopulated.

tapest

How come you two are so knowledgeable on the diff. between North Strand ( which has a very bad but undeserved rep. inho) and East wall ?? You guys local...?
t

arctic lemur

spurious wrote:

I would say North Strand too.

The cinema development in particular will have a big effect. All the roads to the left as you come out of town have had a large influx of private owners (Bayview, Charleville etc.). The cul de sacs on the right of the road have been at a premium for years.

The redevelopment of the Courtney Place flats in Ballybough will have a positive knock on for the end of the Strand closer to the Fire Station, and will also be affected by the Readymix site.

The property prices are rocketing on the north strand, a house on our street is going €580,000 i'm so shocked!
The downsided is a developer has brought 4 houses and is renovating them on our street and some of the tenants are quite rough and loud. For example i was woken at four one morning by 2 drunken/high people trying to go into the wrong house and then used a range of expletives to give out the owner, they even threatned to 'get' him. If you move to our area is it really worth it if you cant relax/enjoy your property? I'm a country person and i cant wait to buy a detached old farmhouse in the country for my privacy eventhough there is a lot said for convenience.

On another note i think they are building something where the old metro dome is on the strand, anyone know what it is?

arctic lemur

tapest wrote:

How come you two are so knowledgeable on the diff. between North Strand ( which has a very bad but undeserved rep. inho) and East wall ?? You guys local...?
t

Yes

antoinolachtnai

Watch out for flooding on north strand (although I am a 'fan' of the area generally).

I think Ballymun will be a massive success.

Docklands (by which I assume you mean mainly the South Docks) is still probably good to go up another 70 percent over the next 5 years in my view although prices are pretty impressive there already and there is very little supply.

Ballyfermot is one that doesn't seem to have been mentioned. That whole area could go crazy. Crumlin is a good one to think about too.

(Rider: I, relations or friends have an interest in properties in some of these areas.)

If you can't put up with your area being a bit rough-n-tumble for a few years, this sort of buying strategy may not be for you, although there is a lot of variation. Take some time to get a feeling for what the area is like - go there at different times of day and night, have a drink in the pub, get the bus into town, go to the supermarket, etc.

semidefinite

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I think Ballymun will be a massive success.

I'm not so sure. Prime Time last night confirmed my suspicions that the new private apartments in Ballymun are of extremely poor build quality. One investor, who had bought 8 apartments that had been built less than two years ago, said that they are virtually worthless now because of fire safety issues. As always with Ballymun, planners seem to make half-hearted superficial improvements to the area without dealing with the underlying problems. The fact that most of the retail units in the area remain empty and that Tesco have, as yet, failed to build the proposed shopping center reflects the concerns of businesses about moving there. The prospect of regenerating Ballymun as a retail hub, which was used to lure investors and first-time buyers, still seems remote. The Metro link and Ikea store could improve matters, although I think the latter is merely going to bring more commuters via the M50 rather than adding anything to the community. In general, my concerns are not so much about the area itself, but about the quality of the developments that have been hurriedly built there.

I'm surprised that nobody here has mentioned Finglas yet. There has been a significant amount of development at the Glasnevin end, such as on the former Premier Dairies site. It's relatively close to Phibsboro and the Clearwater center. However, the village itself is still in real need of a revamp and Finglas West is still unappleaing to most people.

It seems that one of the best areas for investment on the Northside over the last few years has been Phibsboro. Although it's more expensive than Ballymun or Finglas, the proposed redevelopment of the shopping center, Dalymount, Mountjoy & Smurfits, together with the possibility of the Metro at Botanic Road, suggests that the small terraced houses in the area could become quite valuable. By extension, properties in Cabra and Dorset St. might also represent good investments.

semidefinite

GallicProphet wrote:

Fatima Mansions [/COLOR]( was this a joke ... I still cant make up my mind )

Actually, just noticed this sentiment in several comments. It's actually unlikely to be a joke. The proposed 'SoHo' quarter in the Liberties, which was announced last month, indicates that "large public redevelopment projects will be at the Coombe and St James's hospitals and at Fatima Mansions." So it's likely that, as with other regeneration schemes, investors will be queuing up to make early acquisitions.

While the Ballymun regeneration seems to be faltering, it's worth remembering that when the IFSC and Temple Bar schemes were originally proposed, most people thought that the initial investors were insane. Of course, that was before the bubble

Further info on 'SoHo' here.

antoinolachtnai

semidefinite wrote:

I'm not so sure. Prime Time last night confirmed my suspicions that the new private apartments in Ballymun are of extremely poor build quality. ... The prospect of regenerating Ballymun as a retail hub, which was used to lure investors and first-time buyers, still seems remote. The Metro link and Ikea store could improve matters, although I think the latter is merely going to bring more commuters via the M50 rather than adding anything to the community. In general, my concerns are not so much about the area itself, but about the quality of the developments that have been hurriedly built there.

It certainly takes a long time to develop a retail centre. You are certainly looking at 5 or 10 years. A lot of things will have to change. IKEA (if it happens) would basically bring an extra 400 jobs to the area. I wouldn't expect too much else.

I don't know what the schedule is on the shopping centre and all that stuff. But at least there seems to be a plan for developing Ballymun. That's more than most areas have.

There is some poor housing being built all around the place. I have seen some pretty good accommodation around Ballymun too.

homerjk

My mate is working for P.Elliots in Fatima mansions and he definitely says its going to be the place to be. He's bought one himself and is enquiring about getting me one.

mel123

I defo dont think Ballymun is a good investment, but thats just my opinion.

Another poster mentioned Finglas, i have to agree. Up the back of Finglas there is Lanesborough, Cityside, Hampton Wood, Citygate and i think there could be another one. On the St Margarets Road they are in the middle of laying foundations for a retail development with the main holder being Dunnes Stores. Plans in the Independent looked fab, very mod etc etc.Its right beside the M50, Airport, mayb 15 mins from city centre, 10 mins from Blanch. If I had money I would invest here in a nice little apartment if I could.

I know someone who bought an apartment down in the IFSC, think it was formerly Sheriff Street (???) anyway, they were feck all, and now the value of them is unreal. Everyone said that area would never change!!!

clawsthefirst

hey mel123, just curious but why you have that opinion of ballymun?

JimmySmith

I would tend to look at the plans for rail connection into the city centre.
For example.
Maynooth has been mention, but also Balbriggan because it will be Dartified.
Swords is number one though. Prices arent bad now even though its only 3 miles from Malahide Dart station (but since its another town people think its 10s of miles away), but When the Metro is build it will be 5 mins form the airport and 20 mins from city centre.
The timeline for the Metro is far enough away that it wont effect house and apartment values in Swords for a few years yet, so now is the time to get in on the ground floor.
What you need to be looking at are the areas outside the pale, which are on the edge or just outsidte commuting time now, but when they are railified will be well within commuting time. They are the ones which will be up and coming. If its up and coming already, its too late.
The main driver of property prices is access to FAST public transport for commuters.

antoinolachtnai

Well, if you buy property near the proposed Metro station sites, for sure. Swords is a pretty big place, and in the short-term the public transport isn't too fantastic.

I must say that I was surprised that the plans for Swords are so big. As I recall, the idea appears to be to put 100,000 or so units out there over the next 10 years. That is an awful lot of supply, but it is required to justify the expense of the Metro. Newer homes will probably attract a premium over older ones, so watch out. If you could get a house with a big garden within 5 minutes walk to the Metro station, it could certainly turn out to be worth a lot.

10 years (a realistic Metro timeframe) is a long time for a small investor to hold property without a gain if rents are not strong. If you are going to live in it and you like the area, it makes more sense, obviously.

If/when Metro goes in, Ballymun will be less than 10 minutes from the city and 5 minutes from the airport. It will be like the Kensington of Dublin (if you can imagine such a thing). Well, maybe more the Notting Hill.

FillSpectre

Didn't the original poster say inside the M50. Maynooth and Swords are commuter towns and while all fine they aren't in the area we are talking about.

Swords was the countryside when I grew up and is in county Dublin and as such not a Dublin area but a Dublin Town.

I personally think from driving throught the area that it has some poorly designed housing estates with no amenities in the estates or close by. To get a pint of milk you need to drive. When the kids grow up they are likely to be easily bored and cause trouble and if both parents are working it will be worse. I would say Swords may have a very troubling future.

No matter what fuel prices are going to rise so the further out you live may be a real issue as it was in the 70s during the oil crisis.

JimmySmith

Nowhere inside the M50 is Up and coming. Anywhere that had potential has already been spotted and price accordingly.

Thats why i think there is money to be made in Swords, Balbriggan and Maynooth. Rental income in Swords, is as good as anywhere else at the moment, but the other 2 have trains already. Though Swords has shopping and cinema (nearly). A 20 minute commute when the metro appears on the grand scale of things is not much worse than a 10 minute one. And anywhere in Swords will be less than 15 mins walk to the Metro.

I have also heard from someone in the know that there is talk among the councillors of lobbying for the Metro to be extended from Swords to Ashbourne, but believe it when you see it.

Having said that i bought 3 apartments in Balbriggan 3 years ago and 1 in Swords. Looking at the rents and capital appreciation today, Swords would have been the better bet (though i'm happy with all of them). And i believe Swords has a lot more capital appreciation in it than Balbrigan does, but i've made my bed.

What i am basing this on is that 'soon to be up and coming' is better than 'already up and coming' . Like Santry, now i wish i'd bought there a few years ago, but i missed the boat.

And lets face it. Who is going to want to say 'I live in Ballymun'. Have you seen the state even the new apartments there are in already? Just drive through the place. Its definitely not up and coming. The whole place is just a con.

FillSpectre

JimmySmith wrote:

Nowhere inside the M50 is Up and coming. Anywhere that had potential has already been spotted and price accordingly.

Well the subject of the thread stands as is. If you want to go on about only up an coming areas can exist outside of the M50 then it really should be in another thread. I would personally say that there are many Dublin areas that have the potetial to improve and rise in price.

Rent in Swords is cheaper than elsewhere and as more property suiting rental is being built closer to the city I could see it devaluing rental property in the Swords. Not many people are really going to rent in Swords if they work in the city and less will when fuel goes up and travel times increase. A commuter link in maybe 5 years might make it more acceptable but it is still a pretty poorly serviced area to live in although greatly improved and improving.

Not everything is about rental investment. An up and coming area is more to do with people seatling in an area the transient population connected with rental.

The basic facts are house prices are not directly connected to rental ability. Many houses are expensive becasue of location and prestige associated not ability to rent.

THe basics of it are if you want to talk about the next up an coming commuter town to Dublin that is another subject to this.

Lex Luthor

Jobstown...:eek:

JimmySmith

FillSpectre wrote:

Rent in Swords is cheaper than elsewhere

Wrong. Also, You need to look at rental income against purchase costs.

FillSpectre wrote:

A commuter link in maybe 5 years might make it more acceptable but it is still a pretty poorly serviced area to live in although greatly improved and improving.

Wouls that make Swords up and coming?

FillSpectre wrote:

Not everything is about rental investment. An up and coming area is more to do with people seatling in an area the transient population connected with rental.

The basic facts are house prices are not directly connected to rental ability. Many houses are expensive becasue of location and prestige associated not ability to rent.

In that case, i would recommend Dalkey, Blackrock and Monkstown.

Is Jobstown inside the M50? Now theres an area that can only get better.

Lex Luthor

JimmySmith wrote:

Is Jobstown inside the M50? Now theres an area that can only get better.

Just west of the M50, but accessible to the N7 through Saggart.
I can think of worse places.....