Arsenal Transfer Rumours And General Chat

OPENROAD

Have to say always enjoy articles by Paddy.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/ 03/02/sfnpad202.xml

Referees must share blame for brutality
By Patrick Barclay

As an example of the sloppy and piecemeal way in which top-class football (for all its wealth) is administered, a comparison of the punishments applied to Martin Taylor and Jeremie Aliadiere could hardly be bettered.

For the foul that put Eduardo da Silva of Arsenal out of the game for a year, the Birmingham defender was suspended for three matches. For a light retaliatory slap at Liverpool's Javier Mascherano - little more than a gesture of protest at having his nose tweaked - the Middlesbrough striker ended up with four matches after what was oddly described as a ''frivolous" appeal against dismissal. Fortunately, Eduardo's team-mates had desisted from lightly slapping Taylor in the midst of their anguish. Otherwise Arsene Wenger would have been left without half his squad for the rest of the Premier League month.

Rough justice: Punishment did not fit the crime in Jeremie Aliadiere's case
No wonder we have a game in which there are more serious injuries than light slaps; I am sure the Football Association are proud of that. No wonder Wenger has become so exasperated with certain aspects of English football that last Saturday evening he gave excessive vent to his emotions with a call for Taylor to be banned for life; the newspapers who declined to publicise his retraction should be ashamed of themselves. And the point of this horrifying incident, in which the Croatia striker's leg was broken, has since been comprehensively missed.

We keep reading that Taylor's challenge was ''not malicious" - as if that were widely disputed. He no more meant to break Eduardo's leg than the drunken driver means to injure the child who suddenly runs into the road. I use the analogy in a retrospective sense, thinking back to the dark days when to drive after a few pints was socially acceptable. Tackles like Taylor's are, far from being considered taboo (as drunken driving is today), an aspect of the game that many football-lovers in this country are anxious to have preserved.

''Some people would like to see tackling abolished," snorted one distinguished former international defender last week. ''Better to have no tackles," I replied, ''than tackles which can break legs." My reading of Taylor's was that he went in with his leading foot correctly low but his eyes averted, hoping to get the ball but not being over-optimistic; hence a late raising of the foot in order to get something or other, which tragically proved the case, Eduardo paying for his bravery in not skipping away from danger. Is that the sort of game we want? My friend the ex-international sighed and said we'd have to agree to differ. Never shall I enter that pact. We are talking about a potentially beautiful game that has conquered the world through being relatively safe and, at all levels, conducive to skilful expression - not ancient Rome.

There should, of course, be little but sympathy for reluctant gladiators such as Taylor, a decent defender in more meanings than one who, far beyond his inadequate suspension, will have to live with the consequences of a particularly ill-fated observance of the principle that a tackle need not be too precise, especially in the early stages of a match when referees are loath to show cards. Because of the severity of Eduardo's injury, Mike Dean had little alternative but to show the red. But by and large a Premier League defender is permitted an early studding or two in the interests of ''managing the game", in other words keeping as many players as possible on the field for as long as possible.

I have never met Taylor but the chorus of anecdotes about him - notably the recollection of erstwhile Blackburn colleagues that he was such a gentle giant they cropped his hair in order to make him look fierce - leave little doubt as to his occasional discomfort with the nakedly aggressive side of the English game.

The respondents to my piece last week fell into two camps: those who abhorred Taylor's tackle and those who thought it a reasonable attempt to win the ball. The first view came unanimously from abroad, the second with almost a single voice from home. This did not surprise me. When Michael Owen raised his studs to catch the left leg of Nemanja Vidic last Saturday as the Manchester United defender cleared the ball - an offence that might have produced the red card in Italy - many Newcastle fans booed Vidic for having the temerity to fall.

There is a growing brutality in our game for which the elite referees must take a share of the blame - the pattern of their handling of matches, which tend to have fewer cautions issued in the early stages of matches, when naturally they are more effective, than in the latter stages, is undeniable -and, to make matters worse, leniency appears to be spreading. Only last week Milan complained that Kaka, arguably the most precious individual exponent of the game in a world that can never contain too much footballing art, was being targeted by opponents who fouled him in rotation.

There was a warning that all the good work done by FIFA in cleaning up the game after the great Marco van Basten was cast into premature retirement through injury might be undone. You have heard it here a few times too. But let us not worry about the rest of the world until our own house is in order. No idea of how robustly the game should be contested, no brandishing of the television audience figures to show how much the customers love it, is worth a broken career. How sad I find it, moreover, that the nation that gave football to the world should be the one where it appears to have lost its sense of proportion.

Pepe LeFrits

PHB wrote: »

I'm really rooting for Arsenal against Milan this Tuesday, because if they go out, they can focus entirely on the league, that's all that they have left. While United will also be in the CL and the FA Cup. That would give them the rest that they need in comparison to Chelsea and United, and allow them to have a week in between games.

While I would have agreed with that assessment a few weeks ago, I think the damage to morale from a CL exit would be worse than the damage to fitness by remaining in the CL. A win against Milan would give the team a massive boost; fatigue is mental as well as physical.

2 extra games as opposed to going 5 games without a win at this stage in the season is much more preferable to the team's title ambitions.

OPENROAD

PHB wrote: »

Arsenal scored 93 minutes and 7 seconds into the game. Considering the time-wasting, I think that's ok.

Actually it was 92 mins 58 secs when the ball crossed the line;)

Pepe LeFrits

gosplan wrote: »

lol, yeah, poor guys.

We don't lack in quality when our squad is

Sagna Toure Gallas Clichy
Flamini Fabregas
Hleb Rosicky
Ade Van Persie

minus Eduardo and Eboue we have little strength in depth beyond that.

If we could play the above squad week in week out we'd win the legue. problem is with injuries, Diarra leaving etc we're paper thin.

I guess what I'm saying is that our first team is a match for Utd and Chelsea but our replacements aren't so close.

I'd really like Arsne to buy a couple of really top level players in the summer. I hear Essien isn't happy!!!!!!

Ship Gilberto out and have Essien, Flamini and Fabregas for two positions. That's the kind of depth that will win you titles.

I don't think major activity in the transfer market will be needed next summer. It isn't Arsene's style and the squad is developing very nicely. I had hoped that this season we would see progress in the league that would indicate that by 2008/09 the squad would reach a point where it had enough quality to challenge for the league every season. We've reached that point a season ahead of my 'schedule' so that's pleasing.

A lot of our backup players are young and/or inexperienced but they'll improve over time. We'll probably start to see the likes of Vela, Nordtveit, Barazite, Merida, Lansbury and so on getting more involved with the first team too so they'll effectively be our new signings. Nothing earth-shattering but the squad has far more players on the way up than on the way down. We just need to be patient and let the team grow.

Savman

Despite the result on Saturday, I'm a keen admirer of the Arsenal football ethos. However, I do not think the PL title will end up at Emirates this year, I'm sad to say. I have been routing for them all season but I think United are just too strong and resiliant and have that champions quality that Arsenal seem to lack. They really are losing form at the wrong time.

I dunno what the deal is with Van Persie but he's a player I always enjoy watching, if he's back for the final run-in I reckon he could be the difference because I think he's that good. Other than that, Adeboyor had an unusually quiet game on Sat, Fabregas was below his own high standard and I thought some of Walcott's final delivery was absolutely horrendous. There was about 4-5 times he beat his man and got into good crossing positions and I thought "oh no" but each time he skied the final ball or launched it to nobody at the back post much to my relief. I think I can see why Wenger has doubts, defo one for the future and a million miles from the finished product.

Thought the home support was fairly subdued too, not sure why

Would like to see Arsenal win a trophy this year just because I think a side that tries to play proper football deserves it, but unfortunately I cannot see them doing the Premiership yet.

yahoo_moe

van persie back in the squad for tomorrow... he'll almost certainly start on the bench but just hope he hasn't been rushed back again - we're really going to need him at full fitness for the pool-bolton-chelsea-united run of games

herbieflowers

yeah hopefully he'll have a typical recurrence leaving the Arse short up front

Pepe LeFrits

He's been out for 4 months now, so ****ing frustrating.

I really don't think Wenger will be taking any chances with him this time.

yahoo_moe

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

While I would have agreed with that assessment a few weeks ago, I think the damage to morale from a CL exit would be worse than the damage to fitness by remaining in the CL. A win against Milan would give the team a massive boost; fatigue is mental as well as physical.

2 extra games as opposed to going 5 games without a win at this stage in the season is much more preferable to the team's title ambitions.

i agree with this - before the villa game, i wanted a good battling win (i never considered that an easy win would be forthcoming given villa's form) to set up a good performance (even if it was ultimately in defeat) against milan.

but after the Utd hammering, the possible-win-that-turned-into-a-draw against Milan, the late pen for Brum and having to rescue a point against Villa, the team needs a lift so incredibly badly. When you look back on '99, the season pretty much hinged on the FA Cup semi, in 04-05, it floundered after the 49-match streak came to an end and if Arsenal lose to Milan (especially if they lose without showing any fight), it could be the breaking point.

It'll be a tough enough ask to win the league even if we don't have to play another 2-leg tie in the CL but without the lift of putting out Milan (which the first leg suggests is certainly not impossible), it'll certainly be tougher

PHB

Personally, I think if Arsenal lose to Milan, they've a much better chance of winning the league. Less games to play, no FA Cup nor CL, and they can play their first 11 every week.

If they get through the CL, I think they are much more likely to win nothing.
Van Persie surely must not be risked, especially since it was messed up last time, and you could create a long term weakness there. Surely Wenger won't risk it, bar like the last 15 minutes if desperate.

gosplan

I think it's a really hard one to judge. Less games means more rest but to be honest, an away victory against Milan would be a seriously valuable experience and confidence boost for a young team in need of both.

Joeyjoejoe43

Is the Milan game been shown on TV tonight?? Or is it the usual Man Utd on every channel??

PHB

United is on ITV, Arsenal are on Sky afaik

yahoo_moe

PHB wrote: »

Personally, I think if Arsenal lose to Milan, they've a much better chance of winning the league. Less games to play, no FA Cup nor CL, and they can play their first 11 every week.

But with injuries, they're practically playing a first 11 every week anyway - ie whatever they can field... there's no FA Cup anyway and I don't think those two extra CL games would be the make-or-break factor in the league, which I think is going to be really really hard to win anyway.

I said after the CL draw that I'd rather go out of the CL this round than get to the semis/final and lose but I've had to change my mind for now - given how much of a struggle I think the league will be to clinch anyway, and how recent results have gone (and particularly the manner in which they've gone that way) I'd gladly take a score draw/victory tonight - more for morale-boosting purposes than for CL progression in itself

PHB

Well like, there's 4 more CL games before the CL semi final, 3 more FA Cup games until the semi final. That's a difference of 17 games for United vs. in theory 10 more games for Arsenal. That puts a lot lot less pressure on the squad in general.

Roddy23

Arsenal game is on setanta sports tonight.

Mossy Monk

PHB wrote: »

United is on ITV, Arsenal are on Sky afaik

Arsneal are on ITV4

Galvasean

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Arsneal are on ITV4

Joy, another channel i dont have.

gosplan

Good point made on F365 re Arsenal run-in '06.

Way of the title race and losing the fourth place fight to spurs they had been knocked out of the FA cup and Carling cup and were looking jaded and weak in the league when the went on a run of 26 points & 29 goals from the last 11 games while reaching the CL final.

Henry was on flying form, scoring 13 in 11 and we don't have him but as much as that team, this team should be capable of turning it around.

A CL run is something we should welcome.

arbeitsscheuer

Great. I don't have any of the aforementioned channels that may be showing the Arse tonight.

Woolshed anyone?

Bounty Hunter

Well hopefully Arsenal can use that game (Milan) to turn their momentum/confidence on its head and truely get their second wind in the Premiership title push.

didnt have to risk RVP either

leninbenjamin

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Well hopefully Arsenal can use that game (Milan) to turn their momentum/confidence on its head and truely get their second wind in the Premiership title push.

didnt have to risk RVP either

as long as they don't let it go to their heads. they are still a wee bit fragile mentally, one game alone wont fix that problem.

StickyMcGinty

excellent result for the gooners.... you need toure back asap though, senderos is abysmal.

Royale with Cheese

Senderos looks fairly handy at the minute actually imo

PHB

Great to see Arsenal go through, not just because imo its beneficial to United in both the league and the CL [We've a better chance of beating Arsenal than AC Milan], but because its good to see that type of football beating the Milan way of defence and some magic from the front man. Hope we get to knock ya out in the next round

RE: Senderos, somebody said a while ago, he looks much more assured when he gets a run of games into him. He however is often shocking coming in at first.

tred

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

excellent result for the gooners.... you need toure back asap though, senderos is abysmal.

Senderos was excellent. what game u looking. Pato goal stopped off his knee, and he nearly scored himself. great performance. If Arsenal play like that tonight in the rest of the champions league, they wont be beaten, a big bonus tonight, was van persie not needed, and extra game to get him right.
What a memorable match and performance against the Champions of Europe.

Mossy Monk

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

senderos is abysmal.

LOL. No he's not. He is playing some great stuff recently.

Pepe LeFrits

Ahhh, you ****ing beauty

scruff321

fabregas wat a player, there was talk about him not performing aswell and that he may shy away from the big occasion..world class

OPENROAD

Great win tonight, I really think we can kick on for this, glad it did not have to go to extra time, we don't play until Sunday night, hopefully RVP might get a run out. Flamini was superb again, we really need to sort out his contract, have to say Big Phil was also great again.

AnCapaillMor

I love the San Siro, we should be allowed to play all our home games there.

StickyMcGinty

Mossy Monk wrote: »

LOL. No he's not. He is playing some great stuff recently.

yea he was amazing during the weekend alright... :rolleyes:

i thought senderos and eboue were relativly poor considering the rest of the team really gave 110% tonight.

cson

Senderos was quite good tonight. Eboue... I don't like him, he's a decent winger but he's no finish on him and seldom has an end product either. Also regarding Senderos, I think it was Pepe that made an excellent observation in saying that European football suits Senderos, where he can see the game in front of him, as opposed to the fast pace of the Premiership. While you may knock him, don't forget he was an integral part of a defence that went a record time without conceding a goal in the Champions League.

leninbenjamin

i've no doubt in my mind that Senderos has the potential to be a very good player, it's just he's taken some awful criticism in the press and he really does strike me as the one who let's it get to him (even running back after his chance he was still shouting at himself). It was great to see him play so well. he may not have been the best player on the pitch but he put in a great contribution, hopefully that performance will quell any doubts he has about himself.

and Sticky there's no way you can compare Senderos' contribution to Eboue, he put in a massive contribution tonight. you have to consider who he was up against as well, Kaka, Inzaghi and Pato aren't easy to play against for any defender.

Mossy Monk

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

yea he was amazing during the weekend alright... :rolleyes:

He scored an own goal. It doesn't make him ****. He is playing much better than he has done in the past.

StickyMcGinty

cson wrote: »

Senderos was quite good tonight. Eboue... I don't like him, he's a decent winger but he's no finish on him and seldom has an end product either. Also regarding Senderos, I think it was Pepe that made an excellent observation in saying that European football suits Senderos, where he can see the game in front of him, as opposed to the fast pace of the Premiership. While you may knock him, don't forget he was an integral part of a defence that went a record time without conceding a goal in the Champions League.

What about the Sevilla game? I know Wenger put out a somewhat understrength team, but it goes to show Senderos' defensive vunerability...

Now dont get me wrong, I've a lot of time for arsenal and arsenal fans. But to me Senderos has looked out of place at times in the current arsenal squad...

Mossy Monk wrote: »

He scored an own goal. It doesn't make him ****. He is playing much better than he has done in the past.

mossy, did i mention the own goal? i wouldnt blame him for that, these things happen. But he had a shocker at the weekend.... constantly bullied off the ball, getting the wrong side of players etc etc

leninbenjamin wrote: »

and Sticky there's no way you can compare Senderos' contribution to Eboue, he put in a massive contribution tonight. you have to consider who he was up against as well, Kaka, Inzaghi and Pato aren't easy to play against for any defender.

aye, i agree defending against players with their mix of pace and technical ability is obviously gonna be tough. But Kaka, Inzaghi & co wern't up for it tonight.

That wasn;t the same milan i saw lifting the champions league last may, and it doesnt even come close to the side that were beaten in istanbul. They looked like a milan side who are 5th in the league and out of ideas...

Sqaull20

How fast was Theo :eek:

I don't know who saw him close Kaka down, but that was unreal pace he showed.

Kaka is lightening quick himself and Theo left him for dead, I was surprised with that...

Showed great awareness because if Kaka had got going, we might of been in big trouble, we coped well with him but some of our players were struggling to keep up with him in full flow....

What a player that fella is...

Sqaull20

My new mobile phone wallpaper

Irish Gunner

Thought it was a class performance

Nervous at the start and was wondering would we ever score

All the Grim Reapers around me in Kates Pub said they will score on the break well sod to you

Hopefully gives us confidence going into league

110% but Eboue???? Theo you the man chasing the ball and not playing it into corner for Ades or Bernie Mac are they the same??

C'mon you gooners

leninbenjamin

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

That wasn;t the same milan i saw lifting the champions league last may, and it doesnt even come close to the side that were beaten in istanbul. They looked like a milan side who are 5th in the league and out of ideas...

I dunno if they looked that bad. Kaka and Co. posed a real threat at times but some heroic defending from the Arsenal defence and midfield pushed them to far from the goal to do damage. It wasn't exactly an easy night for the Arsenal defence now. And defensively Milan were still very good, an amazing 6 man defensive unit, forced deeper than normal by Nesta's injury seemingly. they soaked up so much from Arsenal, for all the Gunners possession they were rarely afforded any space near the box. in the end it was an absolutely brilliant shot from 30 yards from Cesc that went through the tiniest of gaps to clinch it.

have no fear that's a Milan that would still do very well against most European sides.

gosplan

I don't think Milan were that bad apart from their strikers. The Arsenal back four did very well in the offside battle though.

Basically the Arsenal midfield gave one of their best performances of the year and Milan couldn't compete. To do that away in Milan is really impressive.

I wish someone would make a compilation of all the last ten minutes of our games from this year. They make me so happy.(apart from Brum!!!)

jank

Fantastic win! Great goal by Cesc to win it. He is definately a big game player!
They should have scored earlier on but better late then never.

Flamini was fantastic again. Whats the story with his contract?
Eboue should **** off. Does nothing but squander chances. They should put Diaby/Walcott or rosicky at right mid.

Roll on the draw!

On side note it was sad to see the back of Maldini. He will never play in the CL again. I think the milan side are finished now. Lots of changes for next season there.

PHB

I kinda wish Maldini had retired at the end of last season. I felt his last act should be lifting a trophy Are they still in the Italian Cup?

Nunu

jank wrote: »

Fantastic win! Great goal by Cesc to win it. He is definately a big game player!
They should have scored earlier on but better late then never.

Flamini was fantastic again. Whats the story with his contract?
Eboue should **** off. Does nothing but squander chances. They should put Diaby/Walcott or rosicky at right mid.

Roll on the draw!

On side note it was sad to see the back of Maldini. He will never play in the CL again. I think the milan side are finished not. Lots of changes for next season there.

Yep, first up Ancelotti out ... Mourinho in;)

Mr Alan

Super Super Super Super win for your lot last night. Fair play.

tred

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

What about the Sevilla game? I know Wenger put out a somewhat understrength team, but it goes to show Senderos' defensive vunerability...

Now dont get me wrong, I've a lot of time for arsenal and arsenal fans. But to me Senderos has looked out of place at times in the current arsenal squad...



mossy, did i mention the own goal? i wouldnt blame him for that, these things happen. But he had a shocker at the weekend.... constantly bullied off the ball, getting the wrong side of players etc etc



aye, i agree defending against players with their mix of pace and technical ability is obviously gonna be tough. But Kaka, Inzaghi & co wern't up for it tonight.

That wasn;t the same milan i saw lifting the champions league last may, and it doesnt even come close to the side that were beaten in istanbul. They looked like a milan side who are 5th in the league and out of ideas...

You criticised his performance last night. You were wrong. He was excellent.

Nalz

Judging from the highlights Arsenal should have won 7-1 or 8-1! Well done top performance

StickyMcGinty

tred wrote: »

You criticised his performance last night. You were wrong. He was excellent.

cheers for your in depth criticism :rolleyes:

gosplan

he was excellent. Big phil seems to do a lot better in the European games where the pace is slower. The whole kick and rush thing in the premiership doesn't suit him as much - though he can still be very effective on his day.

Still seriously young for a center half though!!

yahoo_moe

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

What about the Sevilla game? I know Wenger put out a somewhat understrength team, but it goes to show Senderos' defensive vunerability...

Without Flamini (and with Gilberto turning in the display he did that night), it's unfair to pick on Senderos too much. We had Gallas and Toure against Man Utd but without a decent DM performance in front of them, they were exposed in ways they're not used to and (rightly) don't set themselves up to deal with

Now dont get me wrong, I've a lot of time for arsenal and arsenal fans. But to me Senderos has looked out of place at times in the current arsenal squad...

He has at times but I've always said he has a place and a role that he can play against certain opponents. I thought he was particularly good in the first leg and competent last night and as PHB says, he gets more assured after a run in the team (compare the more composed passing of the last couple of games with the constant hoofing it long of his first matches covering for Toure)

aye, i agree defending against players with their mix of pace and technical ability is obviously gonna be tough. But Kaka, Inzaghi & co wern't up for it tonight.

But he was still as bad as Eboue? Come on. They weren't at their best going forward but he still cut out some good passes, stepped up when he had to, etc. and didn't do a hell of a lot wrong overall

That wasn;t the same milan i saw lifting the champions league last may, and it doesnt even come close to the side that were beaten in istanbul. They looked like a milan side who are 5th in the league and out of ideas...

Milan soaked up a lot of Arsenal pressure decently, which seemed to be pretty much their gameplan. They also threatened early on and sporadically afterwards so although they weren't as good as in last year's final, they were far from crap. And no, it certainly wasn't the team that lost in Istanbul - Milan didn't lose the plot and cave in at all over the 180 minutes of this tie like they did that night