Hugh Brady - UCD's Michael O Leary

Blush_01

cast_iron wrote:

Your exam card is available to print during term time...

Mine wasn't. I wanted to print it off months ago and leave it in my locker, but no joy.

cast_iron

Blush_01 wrote:

Mine wasn't. I wanted to print it off months ago and leave it in my locker, but no joy.

Nor was mine available "months ago".
But it was there towards the end of term.

In any case, there is a good arguement for the case that we don't actually need an exam card. It's off this thread topic so i won't expand. Actually, i can't rem the last time i produced an exam card in an exam (though i do manage to find a pc in UCD and print it off:D )

The_Minister

You could always go to an internet cafe if you wanted.

Hermione*

Firespinner wrote:

You could always go to an internet cafe if you wanted.

Yes, but I don't want to. Nor do I want to pay for an internet café.

The great thing about having your exam card posted to your house imo is that you can't realise the mrning of your exam that you've left it in your locker in college.

humbert

Sure you can, what do you do with it in between exams? at least now that they're online if you lose it you can just print it out again.

cast_iron

Hermione* wrote:

Yes, but I don't want to. Nor do I want to pay for an internet café.

You don't HAVE to. 8cent on a UCD printer remember.
Maybe UCD could pay for a taxi to and from every exam you do, provide you with a tutor for every subject, cook your dinner, bring you to the toilet before bed and read you a story to put you to sleep. I'll request Hugh himself does all this for you personally.

It's a sheet of paper for Christ sake!!! Get over it.

Chinafoot

cast_iron wrote:

You don't HAVE to. 8cent on a UCD printer remember.
Maybe UCD could pay for a taxi to and from every exam you do, provide you with a tutor for every subject, cook your dinner, bring you to the toilet before bed and read you a story to put you to sleep. I'll request Hugh himself does all this for you personally.

It's a sheet of paper for Christ sake!!! Get over it.

Oh for god sake, we could say the same to you.

People are going to disagree on this. If you can't accept the fact that other people are in a different living and economic situation to you then you should really wake up to yourself tbh.

Resorting to pathetic and quite petty condescension like that you have just displayed really does nothing other than paint you in a bad light.

Hermione*, along with everyone else (including yourself) are entitled to their opinion. Yet it's funny that everyone else can present their argument in a mature manner and debate the points raised by everyone else. :rolleyes:

Hermione*

cast_iron wrote:

You don't HAVE to. 8cent on a UCD printer remember.
Maybe UCD could pay for a taxi to and from every exam you do, provide you with a tutor for every subject, cook your dinner, bring you to the toilet before bed and read you a story to put you to sleep. I'll request Hugh himself does all this for you personally.

It's a sheet of paper for Christ sake!!! Get over it.

If you knew me, you'd realise how wrong that is. I was just arguing a point ffs. I think for a lot of people who don't like the direction Hugh Brady is taking the college in, it's indicative of the wider issues. It's the principle rather than than anything else.

Also, please be polite.

humbert wrote:

Sure you can, what do you do with it in between exams? at least now that they're online if you lose it you can just print it out again.

Put in in the inside pocket of my bag, I don't trust myself

cast_iron

peachypants wrote:

Oh for god sake, we could say the same to you.

People are going to disagree on this. If you can't accept the fact that other people are in a different living and economic situation to you then you should really wake up to yourself tbh.

Resorting to pathetic and quite petty condescension like that you have just displayed really does nothing other than paint you in a bad light.

Hermione*, along with everyone else (including yourself) are entitled to their opinion. Yet it's funny that everyone else can present their argument in a mature manner and debate the points raised by everyone else. :rolleyes:

Fair enough, i realise that i may be coming across in a bad light. I realise you all know each other, and i know none of you. So i don't quite know your angle on things overall. I'm sure you are all very nice people. Maybe the condescending tone is a bit out of line, so sorry.

But lets just have a quick reality check here. All we are being asked to do is pay 8 cent to print out a sheet of paper, and this is such a big problem? Rich or poor, that's not alot to ask. You can take the "one student" point of view, but for a balanced arguement, you gotta look at the colleges reasons too.

It just infuriates me a little, when a 20 odd year old complains about such a minor thing.
That's my tuppence anyway, and everyone else is entitled to theirs.

Chinafoot

cast_iron wrote:

But lets just have a quick reality check here. All we are being asked to do is pay 8 cent to print out a sheet of paper, and this is such a big problem? Rich or poor, that's not alot to ask. You can take the "one student" point of view, but for a balanced arguement, you gotta look at the colleges reasons too.

It just infuriates me a little, when a 20 odd year old complains about such a minor thing.
.

Thing is though, I don't think that Hermione* was complaining about the 8cent. I'm sure if you re-read her posts you'll see it too.

And also, it has absolutely nothing to do with us knowing each other. It's about a bit of common decency.

Hermione*

peachypants wrote:

Thing is though, I don't think that Hermione* was complaining about the 8cent. I'm sure if you re-read her posts you'll see it too.

And also, it has absolutely nothing to do with us knowing each other. It's about a bit of common decency.

Thanks peachy, you've just typed my post for me.

They're actually the two points I was going to make, how did you know?

cast_iron

peachypants wrote:

Thing is though, I don't think that Hermione* was complaining about the 8cent. I'm sure if you re-read her posts you'll see it too.

And also, it has absolutely nothing to do with us knowing each other. It's about a bit of common decency.

Well i did read back over them, and all bar the 2nd last one was argueing on the inconvenience of having to print it off. As was I.
Being someone of strong principles myself, i take her point on the matter that it's the principle of it.
And i know its has nothing to do with you knowing each other. What i said was i can't see your angle on it as well as ye do, cos i don't know ye!

If you knew me, you'd realise how wrong that is. I was just arguing a point ffs. I think for a lot of people who don't like the direction Hugh Brady is taking the college in, it's indicative of the wider issues. It's the principle rather than than anything else.

Also, please be polite.

What's ffs?

Chinafoot

cast_iron wrote:

Well i did read back over them, and all bar the 2nd last one was argueing on the inconvenience of having to print it off. As was I.



What's ffs?

Inconvenience does not equal cost.

ffs = a polite way of saying for fuck sake

Hermione*

FFS= For fucks sake.

And I thought it reasonably clear that the thread in general was about the sweeping changes that Dr Brady has introduced. But as the thread progressed, it seemed to focus on one issue. I was not arguing about the issue of printing the exam card per se, rather the internet access issue, the fact that iirc we weren't notified about the exam card etc not being posted out (I was on a year out last year, and always received a pack in the post previously with my timetable, map to the rds, exam card etc), and that getting a computer in ucd is actually quite difficult to do. I've often queued for twenty minutes to get a pc, and then shortly after logging in, a tutor comes into the lab and announces the start of the class. It's extremely frustrating when you've an essay to write, and armful of books to carry for reference. So printing isn't quite as striaghtforward as you imagine. I've had to ask my friend to print college stuff for me on his home printer on occassions.

cast_iron

peachypants wrote:

Inconvenience does not equal cost.

The point of the thread is the cost to UCD. Few will complain about the 8 cent for a student.
The bulk of our arguement was on the inconvenience to students to print the exam card. That's where we disagreed, though i'm not sure we do now that she stated it's more the principal of it. Thats a fair point.
We did get bogged down on the exam card issue a bit much.

Hermione*

I actually didn't mention the 8c cost once cast_iron.

DJDC

Yet again another example of a potentially interesting thread descending into pathetic chaos through the squabbles of a small number of individuals.

Blowfish

Blush_01 wrote:

If you get the grant it means going to UCD for an official printed copy

I've never actually needed an official copy to get the grant. I just print off the online ones, and it has worked for the past 3 years.

cast_iron

Hermione* wrote:

I actually didn't mention the 8c cost once cast_iron.

I know, but DJDC is right. I'm guilty as charged. Though at least it's still on topic! I'm agreeing to disagree.

Blush_01

Emmm... last time I checked black and white printing was 6c? If we're going to be pedantic, that is!

Cast_iron, the points people have made here had nothing to do with knowing eachother. That was frankly a silly point to try to make.

I have to hand it to Hermione* and Peachy, the principle of the thing is what's up for debate, not the minute financial implications of printing one sheet off on an individual basis. In fact, the entire thread was founded on the likening of UCD to Ryanair - budget education, no more free statements of your results (which, considering I don't pay fees and still paid close to a grand to come here this year frankly ticks me off) and the blatant lack of information provided without maximum hassle.

cast_iron

Blush_01 wrote:

Emmm... last time I checked black and white printing was 6c? If we're going to be pedantic, that is!

Cast_iron, the points people have made here had nothing to do with knowing eachother. That was frankly a silly point to try to make.

I have to hand it to Hermione* and Peachy, the principle of the thing is what's up for debate, not the minute financial implications of printing one sheet off on an individual basis.

For the sake of the thread, i'll ignore that part. Suffice to say it's been addressed already.
Back on topic, is the O'Learyisation such a bad thing? Without it, i think we would drown in our own administration. There are no prizes for sloppy admin - look at the helth service for example. I say fair play to Brady for at least trying to bring in efficiencies. And whats obvious from above, it was never going to suit everyone.

Crash

Just from an outsiders perspective, you're all talking about how its going the same route as O'Leary and there'll be less administration - however aren't you in a situation where a lot of information related to the colleges spending is not being released to anyone, and building an extension onto the admin building?

Ernie Ball

Not only that, but isn't there much more administrative bureaucracy than there was before? Isn't this one of the things staff are complaining about?

panda100

cast_iron wrote:

For the sake of the thread, i'll ignore that part. Suffice to say it's been addressed already.
Back on topic, is the O'Learyisation such a bad thing? Without it, i think we would drown in our own administration. There are no prizes for sloppy admin - look at the helth service for example. I say fair play to Brady for at least trying to bring in efficiencies. And whats obvious from above, it was never going to suit everyone.

I for one totally agree with you. Faffing around with letters in the post and the administration building etc etc was such a nuisance.Its much better that you can look everything up online. Im rarely ever at home and Usually head a way for the hols and it used to be horrible ringing up mum and dad from the US asking them to open my results. At least now I can check for myself and dont have to tell anyone in my family my results if I dont want to.

Hermione*

cast_iron wrote:

Back on topic, is the O'Learyisation such a bad thing? Without it, i think we would drown in our own administration. There are no prizes for sloppy admin - look at the helth service for example. I say fair play to Brady for at least trying to bring in efficiencies. And whats obvious from above, it was never going to suit everyone.

But then why is the admin building being extended? Presumably to have more space for administrators?

What about the huge expense incurred replacing the crest with a garish company logo?

Or for that matter, the expense of renting the rds for exams when this morning is what at most, half filled?
I don't see anything to be proud of in a 'budget' education tbh

&#231 wrote: »

Just from an outsiders perspective, you're all talking about how its going the same route as O'Leary and there'll be less administration - however aren't you in a situation where a lot of information related to the colleges spending is not being released to anyone, and building an extension onto the admin building?

Exactly!

cast_iron

Hermione* wrote:

But then why is the admin building being extended? Presumably to have more space for administrators?

Honestly, i don't know the actual reason for the expansion of the admin building. Can you tell why it's unnecessary?
Perhaps it's been pretty bad in there for years, and finally something is going to be done. Perhaps with student numbers rising, and with the Advent of Horizons, the overall and necessary admin may have to rise by definition. I'm no expert, so i can only speculate. This isn't to say we shouldn't try to save where we can - which has always been my main point.

Hermione* wrote:

What about the huge expense incurred replacing the crest with a garish company logo?

Well, as part of the whole re-branding of the college, along with it's advertising campaign, i think the stats speak for themselves - applications are up! You gotta spend some to make some....

Hermione* wrote:

Or for that matter, the expense of renting the rds for exams when this morning is what at most, half filled?

Well over the years, the RDS has been pretty full for almost all exams. I was taken aback at how quiet RDS has been this year. I suspect that with the advent of modularisation, you can't have say, all 1st Arts and all of 1st Science on at the same time like in previous years - as the Science students can now take Arts subjects and vice-versa. This has given rise to a longer exam period. Trinity are actually moving in at the moment beside us in the RDS.
Well where do we hold them then?

Hermione*

cast_iron wrote:

Honestly, i don't know the actual reason for the expansion of the admin building. Can you tell why it's unnecessary?
Perhaps it's been pretty bad in there for years, and finally something is going to be done. Perhaps with student numbers rising, and with the Advent of Horizons, the overall and necessary admin may have to rise by definition. I'm no expert, so i can only speculate. This isn't to say we shouldn't try to save where we can.

I didn't say it was unnecessary. Merely that it was at odds with your previous admiration for Dr Brady's supposed cuts in admin that suddenly they needed more room for administrators.

cast_iron wrote:

Back on topic, is the O'Learyisation such a bad thing? Without it, i think we would drown in our own administration. I say fair play to Brady for at least trying to bring in efficiencies.

Also, I wouldn't have thought student numbers would be rising -demograpically there ought to be far fewer students sitting the Leaving Cert now than there were when I was sitting it; birth rates peaked in 1980 and plummeted in the 1980s. There is an increase in postgraduate studies, but I wouldn't have thought that increase to be anyway sufficient to offset the drop in students leaving school.

cast_iron wrote:

Well, as part of the whole re-branding of the college, along with it's advertising campaign, i think the stats speak for themselves - applications are up! You gotta spend some to make some....

Frankly, I think the idea of advertising a university odd, at best. Applications don't equal fees after all, so increased applications do not mean more money for ucd as places do not necessarily increase. A university should not need to be advertised imo, its repuation for acadmeic excellence should speak for itself.
Also, the logo is frightful. Universities should have crests. What's wrong with heritage? Do have to bin all our traditions to make money? :rolleyes:

cast_iron wrote:

Well over the years, the RDS has been pretty full for almost all exams. I was taken aback at how quiet RDS has been this year. I suspect that with the advent of modularisation, you can't have say, all 1st Arts and all of 1st Science on at the same time like in previous years - as the Science students can now take Arts subjects and vice-versa. This has given rise to a longer exam period. Trinity are actually moving in at the moment beside us in the RDS.
Well where do we hold them then?

I didn't say we should hold them elsewhere. Much as I hate the rds, I realise it's a necessity when it's full. It's stretching it to say it was even half full today. Most of last week it was about two-thirds full. It just doesn't seem very efficient. And isn't that what you're praising Dr Brady for, his efficiency?

As well as which, I'm in final year, I'm not modularised and my exams take THIRTY days for eight papers.

cast_iron

Hermione* wrote:

Also, I wouldn't have thought student numbers would be rising -demograpically there ought to be far fewer students sitting the Leaving Cert now than there were when I was sitting it; birth rates peaked in 1980 and plummeted in the 1980s. There is an increase in postgraduate studies, but I wouldn't have thought that increase to be anyway sufficient to offset the drop in students leaving school.

Correct you are, but you've just help me make my point - less students sitting LC, but more people applying to UCD.

Hermione* wrote:

Applications don't equal fees after all, so increased applications do not mean more money for ucd as places do not necessarily increase.

Well in certain cases they do. I know of one course that had 70 odd places when i started, it's down to 20 now. And the dept/school doesn't get to keep the money left over. Also, applications are a good thing - more people vying for places - points rise - so do standards!

Hermione* wrote:

A university should not need to be advertised imo, its repuation for acadmeic excellence should speak for itself.
Also, the logo is frightful. Universities should have crests. What's wrong with heritage? Do have to bin all our traditions to make money? :rolleyes:

Good point, well made, and i agree. BUT, we are not quite up to Harvard/Oxford standard yet, and along way off it. The modularisation programme is trying to see to this, and it will take time. And speaking on the American system at least, it's ALL about the money. Without it Harvard and the like would be just an average Uni.
And while on the issue of US colleges, it really brings home how easy we have it over here. A fair entry system - not who you know/how much money you have; free fees (and don't start on "free? i pay for an exam card every year...." ok, sorry, couldn't resist that one.), but we dont come out of college with what is effectively a mortgage!

Hermione* wrote:

It just doesn't seem very efficient. And isn't that what you're praising Dr Brady for, his efficiency?

Yes, but of course there are areas that can do with improving. I can accept that. You could probably name 10 more areas, as could i name 10 where things have improved. My point is, why knock what's been improved on, even at the expense of a few inconveniences.

Hermione* wrote:

As well as which, I'm in final year, I'm not modularised and my exams take THIRTY days for eight papers.

I wish you well in them.

Easygainer

Wow, didn't realise this would get so emotive...

Since I first posted this the turnstiles have been broken or working slowly at least once every 2 days.

As for journals, I don't know about you guys but I am in law and a good 60% of footnoted journals and books aren't here, and if the books are here there is one copy per thirty students in the class of the most recent edition.

I am fine with printing up student cards and so forth but I wasn't notified. Do you expect me to check my UCD Connect email? Let's be realistic and accept that about 4 people read those emails and that's probably by accident.

Last off, who cares how many people come here - it's just going to mean more people with an education curbed by cost cutting. More students means the ratio of core books per student just gets worse, the seating and parking arrangements get worse, the prices go up because there's nowhere else to go for even more people, and tutorials will be just like lectures.

Red Alert

plenty of people use connect email now AFAIK, the interface is better than Pegasus was.

i have a mail sorting rule set up though to throw anything from CPAdmin into a ucdspam folder because they were overdoing it a bit.