Racism and After Hours

Degsy

I was posting in AH for a long time till the post about afghan hunger strikers came up.I was of the same mind as pretty muche everybody else i.e. that they should not be allowed to stay in the country.I was called,in no particular order a "nazi",a "racist",a "dickhead" and the word "ignorant" qwas thrown at me a few times for good measure,when i called my attacker a "gob****e" in retaliation i got banned. I think there's a nice set of double standards in operation.I find the term "racist" sickening a s i have friends from all four corners of the globe in every shade and hue.

WhiteWashMan

unfortunately, not everyone is going to be happy all the time.

people are going to be unhappy no matter what. were either too easy, or to hard, we should be banning people, or we're endorsing censorship.

personally, i want to ban most of the people on AH for being intolerant about something, for reading bebo or myspace or for just being stupid.
but i cant.

i take on board that people are not happy about one thing or another, but you know what. i cant fix it all for everyone.

its just called a difference of opinion.

and im not going to worry too much about it to be honest.
if and when i see a great inconsistancy or a mass change in opinion will i take it onboard.

i mean look at this thread.
someones not happy, other people complain about that. other people complain about the other people complaining.

they day everyone on a thread agree with each other, is the day i give it all up...

Rabies

ferdi wrote:

how about a 'NO Politics, NO Religion' rule in AH?

Good idea.

Off topic:
I don't think I have seen anyone ever win against amp

Boston

Rabies wrote:

I don't think I have seen anyone ever win against amp

It happens.

amp

LiouVille wrote:

It happens.

Really?

godfather69er

alright lads, if ya dont know me i am a nazi, i hate all people who dont have blond hair blue eyes and are 6ft tall like myself, i think the afghan hunger strikers should be shot and that kunle should be murdered.

eh no i dont

i know some of you want to lay into me for being a racist well lets go,
i am 18 and still in school i have more interactions with ethnic groups due to my school,where i live and where i work, i have no problems with them, some are nice people and very intelligent,
however since i amnt blind to the real world i realise that ireland is small and has its fair share of national scumbags. the country needs legal immigrants i mean illegals cant work, the fact that we can choose who we let in should mirror this and i think it does, however it is illegal immigrants that bother me,
they have broke international law to get here , do you think they will obey irish law to the same degree as ordinary irish people.
they 'might' do

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Suppose i primarily wanted to open up the debate about what i think is a distasteful new trend in After Hours in the last few months.

As a previous poster said, i'm not against the issues being discussed (of course), but against the fact that i know when i open one of these threads i will be confronted with blatantly racist comments.

Maybe posts on political issues could be left to the political forum, where there is a lot more knowledge on political issues, and random racist comments would be quickly shot down.

The other solution is that i just don't visit After Hours. Which is what i have been doing.

Although i do reiterate my earlier comment that After Hours is the place that a lot of new posters lurk and post until they find sub-forums of particular interest. At the moment it is not the best introduction to the rational, intelligent, tolerant commentary, information and debate that dominates the vaste majority of boards.ie forums.

It isn't an issue for me personally to decide, that is for the over-worked mods of that forum, and the c-mods and admins.

Boston

amp wrote:

Really?

Remember that time you where being a complete "bad boy" towards Ecksor and he banned you. And you went off on a big rant about how he was "DA BIGGEST DANGER EVER" to boards, only to have to say sorry (you might have lied about saying sorry) to him... Maybe I dreamt that. I mean those blogs posts are long gone.

As a btw to the Admins, he asked, I answered.

nesf

Roundtower2 wrote:

At the moment it is not the best introduction to the rational, intelligent, tolerant commentary, information and debate that dominates the vaste majority of boards.ie forums.

Bluntly. It is not that kind of forum, it never was that kind of forum (afaik) and it never will be that kind of forum. It isn't meant to be an introduction to that kind of forum either. It is what it is and that is what the members make of it. If I didn't mod the place I wouldn't read a fraction of the threads I do on there, but that doesn't make them in any way "unfit" to be part of this site. They just aren't my cup of tea but it seems obvious that a lot of people get a lot of satisfaction out of the forum. So leave it be tbh. If you want to discuss immigration in a rational, controlled and logical manner then coming to AH is probably going to do bad things to your blood pressure tbh.

hopcroft

I think that Ireland became successful economically because it was essentially homogenuous and people were able to work together for a common purpose. I don't believe that the racial composition should be changed radically. Does that make me racist? I do not want multiculturalism nor did I vote for it? Does that make me a racist? If an animal was in danger of extinction would we not try to preserve it? Ireland as I have known it is in danger of extinction. Does that make me a racist? I do not believe that jews or blacks or any particular people should be exterminated. I do not believe that the Irish are superior to other peoples but I do believe they are different and I want to preserve that difference. Does that make me a racist? If so I embrace the term racist and take comfort in my belief that most Irish people are racist too.

oscarBravo

hopcroft wrote:

I think that Ireland became successful economically because it was essentially homogenuous and people were able to work together for a common purpose.

That point is fine as far as it goes, but I don't see what it has to do with race specifically.

hopcroft wrote:

I don't believe that the racial composition should be changed radically. Does that make me racist?

Racist, dunno. It's become such an emotionally charged word that a mere basis in fact no longer suffices.

It's pretty hard for you to duck charges of xenophobia, though.

nesf

hopcroft wrote:

I think that Ireland became successful economically because it was essentially homogenuous and people were able to work together for a common purpose.

The bucket loads of EU structural funds came in kind of handy though....

Karl Hungus

FX Meister wrote:

Well there are blatant racist posts from one particular poster in the Kunle thread in After Hours. He's been reported but nothing has happened. It has nothing to do with opinions and everything to do with incitment of hatred. But in the same thread a number of weeks ago I received a ban for two weeks for pointing out I thought a post form Karl Hungus was racist. Perhaps some of the mods also believe in the ignorant crap spewed from certain racists on this site.

Actually, you were banned from a different thread in Politics for calling me a racist, so there's no correlation between that decision and what goes on in After Hours. Politics is a far more serious board than AH, so I can see why your single word retort got you in trouble. See here, and ask yourself, is that the kind of rational debate that is suited for Politics?

You know something else though? I think the word racist has absolutely no real meaning any more. Hell, if you want to take things literally, I'm a complete racist myself, because I have preference for all things Japanese. I don't deny it, and infact I flaunt my racist ways on boards constantly, but does anyone really care? Not really. Hell, here's a site that is set up by one of boards.ie's own admins just for that particular kind of racial discrimination!

But on the case of the so-called racism on After Hours. Well, aside from a few extreme cases, I think most people are just airing their fears and concerns. It's a very healthy human response, but do we want to delete it all, ban the users who might be posting 'offensive' comments, and sweep it all under the table as if it didn't exist? I wouldn't.

Hobbes

LiouVille wrote:

A your signature is to big. Grounds for deportion if you ask me.

He should lock himself into TCN and go on posting strike.

Hobbes

ferdi wrote:

how about a 'NO Politics, NO Religion' rule in AH?

Wouldn't work and you will get the "Set my people free!" type people crawling out of the woodwork quoting danish cartoons and whatnot.

Moving the thread only works for a while. Take the traveller thread for example, that lasted ages in AH yet the same day it was moved into Humanities half the people on the thread were banned on the forum and the thread was locked and it was forbidden to post about Travellers on the forum for some months.

WhiteWashMan

Hobbes wrote:

Wouldn't work and you will get the "Set my people free!" type people crawling out of the woodwork quoting danish cartoons and whatnot.

Moving the thread only works for a while. Take the traveller thread for example, that lasted ages in AH yet the same day it was moved into Humanities half the people on the thread were banned on the forum and the thread was locked and it was forbidden to post about Travellers on the forum for some months.

and we were asked to move it to the humanities forum.

sometimes be careful what you ask for....


besides, when threads get that size, im not happy about pasing them into other forums becasue quite frankly, half the posts are just unsubstantiated rubbish anyway.

the threads will stay. there wont be an argument about it. thats just the way its going to be.
sorry.

VIM

amp wrote:

Really?

That response really defines you.
Taking a long look in the mirror should help. How many people do you see?

Tha Gopher

Hobbes wrote:

Wouldn't work and you will get the "Set my people free!" type people crawling out of the woodwork quoting danish cartoons and whatnot.

Moving the thread only works for a while. Take the traveller thread for example, that lasted ages in AH yet the same day it was moved into Humanities half the people on the thread were banned on the forum and the thread was locked and it was forbidden to post about Travellers on the forum for some months.

Those threads were a legitimate discussion until you waded in with your "didnt take long for the anti traveller crap to start" post, and from there it was doomed.

Of course, anti traveller crap being such monstrous activities as posting personal accounts of dealings with the traveller folk with the nerve not to post a link to the Irish Independant article that should have detailed the horror of the time you were stuck on a bus 3 a seat with a traveller family, the father of which stank of raw milk and had a massive slashook wound, and held up the bus for 5 minutes with the usual waffle of how he and the wife had forgotten their disabled bus passes. Or the sheer racism of people thinking to themselves that because of maybe 6 experiences with travellers in the previous year of which they found 5 to be negative, that maybe a similiar proportion of the 30,000 in this country act the same.

I think the worst example was Dublindude (or Rubadub, cant recall) thread mnths back where he expressed concern about the irresponsibility of letting people in untested from countries with a HIV rate in the two figures. "Oh god, he mentioned an African country. I hear your a racist now Dublindude/Rubadub"

Hobbes

Tha Gopher wrote:

Of course, anti traveller crap being such monstrous activities as posting personal accounts of dealings with the traveller folk

The problem with that is that people try to equate a personal experience to the whole. Case in point would be for example illegal halting. A minority of travellers actually illegally halt yet people went on as if this was happening all over the place.

Also the fact that the first thread a lot of such crap was totally debunked yet people (much like yourself) continued to harp on as if it was never mentioned.

What was also interesting is when people posted positive personal accounts with travellers they were automatically branded "Liars".

have detailed the horror of the time you were stuck on a bus 3 a seat with a traveller family, the father of which stank of raw milk and had a massive slashook wound, and held up the bus for 5 minutes with the usual waffle of how he and the wife had forgotten their disabled bus passes.

Good example of crap posted. For starters how would they know they are travellers? Did they see them coming out of a caravan beforehand? You sterotype smelly, dangerous looking as Traveller.

Incidently nearly all western people smell of sour milk. Its because of diet (but OT here).

maybe 6 experiences with travellers in the previous year of which they found 5 to be negative, that maybe a similiar proportion of the 30,000 in this country act the same.

A sample of 5 is meaningless, yet again people were using such examples to tar the whole.

I think the worst example was Dublindude (or Rubadub, cant recall) thread mnths back where he expressed concern about the irresponsibility of letting people in untested from countries with a HIV rate in the two figures. "Oh god, he mentioned an African country. I hear your a racist now Dublindude/Rubadub"

You should go back and read it.

The contention wasn't with the testing, it was that he had taken statistics (AIDS statistics) from one set and tried to use them to prove that the majority of Aslyum seekers were AIDS infected. Basically taking the total of Asylum seekers from Africa and cross-referencing against Aids statistics from Africa.

However there was no corrolation in such comparison. A better corrolation will be against the Africans listed in the census next month or the month after.

6th

Christ could everyone cop on and relax its only the internet!

People will discrimate against people who are different, you cant stop that. What you can do is be different. if you think someone is treating some different because of the ethnic background or country of origin should you spend your time verbally bashing the person filled with hate or should you spend it supporting the influx of nationalities. If you feel a boards member is getting a hard time, send them a pm saying how not everyone is like these people.

As for those who complain about people coming in taking up spaces in or hospitals and taking our jobs: 1) i know plenty of irish in the Uk availing of there free medical services and i know plenty in other countries getting everythhing they can there too. Christ look what we did 9the irish) when our country was in trouble - we went to america. As for jobs, I say there are plenty of jobs for those who want them. I see so many people from other countries working in town in fast food places and cleaning the streets. Yet there are so many lazy scum bags walking around with a fag in their mouth and apaper under their arm who would rather take the dole and make money on the side than work in McDonalds.

Gordon

6th wrote:

Christ could everyone cop on and relax its only the internet!

You're right. We should be more lenient towards anything on the internet. For example, if anyone breaks the law on the internet - they shouldn't be punished at all because, like, it's just the internet after all.

mikedragon32

As a recent recruit to Boards, I'd have to say that the problem on AH isn't racism, but the inability of those on one side of an arguement to accept the views of the other.

It seems that such matters are quite emotive and in the absence of quality debating some find it easier to brand others as racist, when that's quite far from the truth.

Of course those who make sweeping racist remarks should be banned, but one needs to carefully consider what makes for a racist remark or indeed what makes someone a racist.

It seems quite easy to label people, harder though to argue with reason. I gave up debating on the thread about the Afghan hunger strikers because it decended into pettiness and some idiots who seems intent on trolling. It certainly wasn't helped either by some who seem to think that just because one is against granting asylum to those who wish to circumvent the process that they must therefore be racist.

I wouldn't say that racism is prevailing on the AH forum, merely that the labelling of users as racists is.

Boston

What exactly do people expect from After Hours? The hight of intellectual debate. Come off it. It's a forum for rantign and raving, and for posting ****e.

Crash

at times like this, i'm glad i'm still banned

Hagar

mikedragon32 wrote:

I gave up debating on the thread about the Afghan hunger strikers because it decended into pettiness and some idiots who seems intent on trolling.

That thread is ripe for trolling. It's total madness. Over 700 posts going in circles. Pffttt.

The last time anyone got away with that "Sanctuary in a Cathederal" crap was when Quasimodo swooped down on a rope and saved Esmerelda in The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

This is the real world. No asylum seeker or refugee can reach Ireland from Afghanistan without first stopping off in another safe country. As soon as they leave that country without seeking refuge/asylum there they have lost the right to do so in Ireland under International Law. They are spongers. End of story. Let them return from whence they came.

Stark

LiouVille wrote:

What exactly do people expect from After Hours? The hight of intellectual debate. Come off it. It's a forum for rantign and raving, and for posting ****e.

Damn right imo.

As for this whole debate. On the one side you have the Stormfronters of the world. On the other side though, you have the people who so up their own arses with hunting for posts that show even the slightest bit of "racism" that they'd probably justify an actual racist attack with "oh the poor guy who did it probably had a hard life and you're not allowed call him a scumbag as that's wrong".

Last thing I want to do is concede victory to the latter group. Deal with genuine causes for complaint such as posts along the lines of "Death to all jews" or whatever but leave the grey area debate imo.

Dirk Gently

I agree with both mikedragon32 and LiouVille in their two recent posts. Although I thought the whole tread was a bit of a joke, and I don't expect anything else from after hours, there was one poster I had a problem with and he is the person who got banned. I think the ban was deserved and he is clearly a racist and not just someone who was victimised by having that label unfairly put on him.

According to the rules on AH he deserved a ban and his posts should have been edited or deleted. As much as it depresses me to see such an uninformed reactionary Debate take place, I realise that AH is the sun newspaper of boards.ie and silly remarks are going to be tolerated. At least tabloids print crap in order to sell papers, it seems people post crap in AH because they really believe they have an informed opinion. I personally use AH for light relief and a bit of craic. If I want a serious discussion I go to one of the other forums and debate with people who have an interest and some understanding in a subject.

AH is the right place for people to post unless uninformed dribble but unless their is a rule change it is not the place for one person to promote racism. Opposing the Afghan strikers or asylum seekers in general does not make you racist; it just makes you a hypocrite, ignorant of the history of Irish people, which is not against the rules of the forum. The user who was banned did not merely oppose asylum seekers though; he made unquestionable racist remarks and frequently refers to non-nationals as scum.

Below is a taste of what the banned user was posting and it is clearly racist:
Ten years ago I would have said that the likes of the BNP and Combat 18 were scum, now I see there legitamacy and the reason why the exist.

These people are the racists, they do not belong here, they have no right to be here, they forced themselves on us and we should put them in a detention camp and keep them there until they are removed...

If they die so be it but it is not my problem or Irelands problem....

Every Nigerian that has entered Ireland has been to rip it off, the same for Romanians and for most other eastern europeans and Asians....

Either change the rules to allow racist comments like the one above or close this thread as there is nothing to discuss. I don't know of any Irish government agency, employer or NGO who would tolerate these remarks. At the moment boards rules don't tolerate it either. Certain other internet forums do allow these comments such as stormfront, so I suggest the banned user discuss his concerns there.

Stark

clown_bag wrote:

Either change the rules to allow racist comments like the one above or close this thread as there is nothing to discuss. I don't know of any Irish government agency, employer or NGO who would tolerate these remarks. At the moment boards rules don't tolerate it either. Certain other internet forums do allow these comments such as stormfront, so I suggest the banned user discuss his concerns there.

And the problem is? You're saying that the mods made a correct judgement call but you're also calling for the rules to be changed to hard and fast rules that don't allow them space for judgement calls?

Dirk Gently

Stark wrote:

And the problem is? You're saying that the mods made a correct judgement call but you're also calling for the rules to be changed to hard and fast rules that don't allow them space for judgement calls?

I'm not calling for a rule change, just that the existing rules be enforced.
If there was a rule change to allow racism I would be off to another forum.
people calling for racism to be allowed are the ones looking for a rule change.

your remark ... and the problem is? is basically a four word equivalent of my longer post. We are in agreement.

woody

clown bag wrote:

I agree with both mikedragon32 and LiouVille in their two recent posts. Although I thought the whole tread was a bit of a joke, and I don't expect anything else from after hours, there was one poster I had a problem with and he is the person who got banned. I think the ban was deserved and he is clearly a racist and not just someone who was victimised by having that label unfairly put on him.

According to the rules on AH he deserved a ban and his posts should have been edited or deleted. As much as it depresses me to see such an uninformed reactionary Debate take place, I realise that AH is the sun newspaper of boards.ie and silly remarks are going to be tolerated. At least tabloids print crap in order to sell papers, it seems people post crap in AH because they really believe they have an informed opinion. I personally use AH for light relief and a bit of craic. If I want a serious discussion I go to one of the other forums and debate with people who have an interest and some understanding in a subject.

AH is the right place for people to post unless uninformed dribble but unless their is a rule change it is not the place for one person to promote racism. Opposing the Afghan strikers or asylum seekers in general does not make you racist; it just makes you a hypocrite, ignorant of the history of Irish people, which is not against the rules of the forum. The user who was banned did not merely oppose asylum seekers though; he made unquestionable racist remarks and frequently refers to non-nationals as scum.

Below is a taste of what the banned user was posting and it is clearly racist:
Ten years ago I would have said that the likes of the BNP and Combat 18 were scum, now I see there legitamacy and the reason why the exist.

These people are the racists, they do not belong here, they have no right to be here, they forced themselves on us and we should put them in a detention camp and keep them there until they are removed...

If they die so be it but it is not my problem or Irelands problem....

Every Nigerian that has entered Ireland has been to rip it off, the same for Romanians and for most other eastern europeans and Asians....

Either change the rules to allow racist comments like the one above or close this thread as there is nothing to discuss. I don't know of any Irish government agency, employer or NGO who would tolerate these remarks. At the moment boards rules don't tolerate it either. Certain other internet forums do allow these comments such as stormfront, so I suggest the banned user discuss his concerns there.

Clownbag again you moronic attiutude prevails, you are actually the racist look a bit closer against Irish people, the government is racist against Irish people, so rant on all you like as again you are a Moron A Racist and above all a Hypocrite...

My Stance is similar to many and we are branded "Racist" well your wrong we are concerned citizens, who will believe or not prevail sometime and moronic idiots like you will be left in the cold.... We live in a free society and hence have the freedom of speech,freedom to have freedom and above all as a citizen I have a right to speak out against Freeloaders taking from the state and breaking laws...

We have the right to defend our property and faith within the law, the police dare not open their mouth as they also will be branded racist by these criminals as the know there rights but not there responsibilites...

You are an inate idiot who forces your opinion down peoples throat,let me see your a bit like old Adolf...

So to conclude your rant is disgusting you dont deserve the right to be Irish as you wont open your eyes to the country being raped when we supposedly became affulent, imagine the money ran out, the social welfare was stopped which Mug country would be next for the locusts to prey on... I will not harm a human being because I dont like what they are doing but I will not take one ounce of sh1t from them, a zero tolerance policy to them and no more no less.... If I am a racist well them you are certainly a person with extreme treasonable and facist attitude that will lead to the demise of this country