Racism and After Hours

The Corinthian

ferdi wrote:

meh, you sound like him but you're not on his level, educated or not. sorry.

You don't actually have a clue what you're talking about.

Gordon

ferdi is the poor man's WWM.

ferdi

i try to do my bit for the poor man.

we all have to start somewhere.

Hagar

Doctor Fell wrote:

I think you have just shown the dangers of racist language. U have now let hearsay about Nigerians determine the way in which you now treat and regard people of that race! And what do you mean about "some Eastern European nations"??? What are you trying to insinuate? Have you some more BS to spread about them, or some bullcrap story to illustrate how some devious race is not to be trusted?? I really dislike people like you with your racially prejudiced views of other people. I can't believe you can fall for all these scare stories. So yeah, your views of Nigerians by your own admission are racist.

So I'm not playing the racsit card unfounded. You are racist, you said it yourself. Nothing "uber PC" about it, its just a fact.
Again I would say, what is the problem with calling someone a racist, if they clearly are? It's not "slinging the racist drivel around", it's reality.

I am neither talking BS or crap, nor am I making any insinuations against anyone. I merely stated that in the light of publicity on certain elements of society I would be cautious in my dealings with them. What's racist about that?
Show me where I said I was a racist. You can't, can you? Stop making unfounded personal remarks.
They are not welcome.
You sir, are talking through your arse. Go back to whatever little clique of PC nerds you come from and leave the higher cognitive functions to those who are equiped to handle them.

RoundyMooney

I do not like thee, Doctor Fell.

amp

Hagar wrote:

I am neither talking BS or crap, nor am I making any insinuations against anyone. I merely stated that in the light of publicity on certain elements of society I would be cautios in my dealings with them. What's racist about that.
Show me where I said I was a racist. You can't, can you? Stop making unfounded personal remarks.
They are not welcome.
You sir, are talking through your arse. Go back to whatever little clique of PC nerds you come from and leave the higher cognitive functions to those who are equiped to handle them.

So your going to change your attitude towards an entire section of people based on publicity? Publicity that may have been sensationalised in order to get people to read/watch/whatever. That's really using those higher cognitive functions.

I don't really understand why people keep calling other people politically correct as if it's a bad thing. It's politically incorrect to say that women belong in the kitchen. But it's a bad thing to be politically correct and say that women should have the same opportunities that men do?

Do people who aren't politically correct think Bernard Manning should be a world leader? Somebody explain this to me.

Dirk Gently

all this talk about the word racist getting thrown around and yet bleeding heart and pc brigade are getting thrown around like there's no tomorrow.

If racist is being used to silence some people are those people not doing the same by calling someone a bleeding heart. Same effect. Discredit the messenger.

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not going to go because some of the tripe hurt my poor eyes, but I took exception to one user in the Afghan thread and I labeled him a racist and I stand by it. I'm not being overly pc because I called a spade a spade. At that rate there would be no racists in the world ever if people where shot down as being a bleeding heart and part of the pc brigade for pointing out the obvious. I mean do you want to go full circle and make it impossible to call someone a racist because you’re infringing on the racists right to be a racist if you do so.

You also have to bear in mind that not all of us on boards are white Irish people going back generations and other users might be upset reading stuff like "all Africans, eastern Europeans and Asians are spongers raping our country and should be put in detention camps and sent home". A lot of students and professionals who came here and are actually keeping our economy ticking over would be a bit pissed of with that, never mind genuine refugees.

What would the reaction be if Tony blair said tomorrow that all us Irish are drunken backward potato eating terrorists. Would you be happy with that statement or would you reckon labeling us all like that was a tad on the racist side. You're not alowed call Tony a racist though, if you did you would be a PC nutter.

Hagar

I already metioned it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51414257&postcount=131

I treied to make the post as balanced as possible but selective reading or quoting could make it look entirely different to what was intended.

Karl Hungus

clown bag wrote:

What would the reaction be if Tony blair said tomorrow that all us Irish are drunken backward potato eating terrorists. Would you be happy with that statement or would you reckon labeling us all like that was a tad on the racist side. You're not alowed call Tony a racist though, if you did you would be a PC nutter.

You're taking an extreme situation right there that has practically no actual comparison.

First of all, he wouldn't be racist, because we're the same race, so yeah, you might be a bit of a dullard to call him a racist. That doesn't mean he hasn't made an incredibly ignorant and predjudiced statement and is beyond reproach, so of course there'd be a reaction, and justly so, but calling him a racist wouldn't be the only reaction that could happen.

Are you actually trying to suggest that calling Tony Blair a racist would be the only rebutal we could muster, and that such a rebutal must be protected at all costs? :rolleyes:

Besides, that little hypothetical has no real bearing. I think this thread has perfectly illustrated the idiocy behind calling people racist without cause, as we've had a poster who took certain posts, and ran with them, creating far-out falsehoods and labelling everyone "Racist" to suit himself. It's a perfect example of spinning lies and twisting the truth in order to label people as such.

It was pointed out that one of the Afghans was a member of the Taliban and had committed crimes, this somehow gets twisted into a statement about how all Afghans are Taliban rapist murdering scum! It's exactly that kind of thing that people are annoyed about, and rightly so, because of such claims that any mention of certain negative aspects of another race is instantly a racist ploy to tar all of those race. Now if we take that idea to a far-reaching conclusion, anyone who mentions anything negative about another race is obviously a racist out to discredit that race! How exactly is that any better than not being able to call anyone a racist?

clown bag wrote:

"all Africans, eastern Europeans and Asians are spongers raping our country and should be put in detention camps and sent home".

Yes, but where exactly is that being said? The genuine cases of racism, like Woody, are being banned for that kind of racist posting. But it's as if you're claiming that the powers that be are allowing all kinds of racism to run rampant? They're not, they are being dealt with accordingly.

Karl Hungus

Oh and while I'm at it...

amp wrote:

I don't really understand why people keep calling other people politically correct as if it's a bad thing. It's politically incorrect to say that women belong in the kitchen. But it's a bad thing to be politically correct and say that women should have the same opportunities that men do?

Got to love that good old "With us or against us" logic, it never requires any thought what so ever. Just so easy on the brain. So, anyone who's against political correctness must want to revoke women's rights? Fantastic logic right there! :rolleyes:

I think you should really have a good read of this.

Boston

amp wrote:

So your going to change your attitude towards an entire section of people based on publicity? Publicity that may have been sensationalised in order to get people to read/watch/whatever. That's really using those higher cognitive functions.

I don't really understand why people keep calling other people politically correct as if it's a bad thing. It's politically incorrect to say that women belong in the kitchen. But it's a bad thing to be politically correct and say that women should have the same opportunities that men do?

Do people who aren't politically correct think Bernard Manning should be a world leader? Somebody explain this to me.

PC people tend to be all talk and not action. Example, the name of the old age pension was recently changed to the state pension, for PC reasons. Bloody usefull as far as giving people money and helping them.

Hobart

Karl Hungus wrote:

First of all, he wouldn't be racist, because we're the same race,

How do you come to that conclusion? What "race" is Tony Blair?

Boston

Hobart wrote:

How do you come to that conclusion? What "race" is Tony Blair?

anglo-saxon? I persume thats a race and thats what Tony is.

Karl Hungus

Hobart wrote:

How do you come to that conclusion? What "race" is Tony Blair?

Neptunian of course. :rolleyes:

Hobart

Karl Hungus wrote:

Neptunian of course. :rolleyes:

Oh, I see. When somebody has the gall to actually question your argument, you try and debase their statement with the use of some pseudo-humorous retort. Why don't you just answer the question? Can you?

Do you even know what a "race" is?

LiouVille wrote:

anglo-saxon? I persume thats a race and thats what Tony is.

Why would you assume that?

Doctor Fell

Hagar wrote:

I am neither talking BS or crap, nor am I making any insinuations against anyone. I merely stated that in the light of publicity on certain elements of society I would be cautious in my dealings with them. What's racist about that?
Show me where I said I was a racist. You can't, can you? Stop making unfounded personal remarks.
They are not welcome.
You sir, are talking through your arse. Go back to whatever little clique of PC nerds you come from and leave the higher cognitive functions to those who are equiped to handle them.

I really have to laugh at this gem. In your previous post you admitted you are a racist i.e. you have prejudiced views based on race. These views were formed by believing hearsay and rumours about "them foreigners". So it is a well founded personal remark. You are racist.
Oh, any more insightful personal comments you would like to make about my arse and my little clique of nerdish friends? They certainly are unfounded personal comments, unlike me calling you a racist.

I don't know what your problem is Karl, but I suspect it may be lack of brains, or not being able to see the blindingly obvious, even if its right there in your face. Perhaps you don't understand my posts for some reason, I thought it was just my posts you had a difficulty with, but apparently you don't understand Clown Bag's or Amp's either. And perhaps you might take some of your own medicine and point out where exactly I labelled "everyone" racist. Hmmm?

Oh, and the best one is Roundy Mooney - oh no, you don't like me??:(
Tell me why I should care roundy.

ChityWest

As I am reading this if, say, tony blair did something like - propose to limit immigration or deport immigrants who have been in the legal system for minor offences - and you have a problem with that - then in order to argue against it you would need to have a bit more more than 'hes a racist' as your argument, because of policy x,y,or z.

It is too easy to call somone racist without being held to account for it - if you were accusing somone of being a raPist you'd end up in prison for slander - yet people are slinging the 'racist' tag around like theres no tomorrow. And usually (it seems to me) when they simply want to stifle opposition to whatever the argument is about that they are in favour of. It reminds me a lot if the situation as regards israel/palestine - not so much on the boards but generally and in particularly in the PC heavy usa - (yes Politically correct lunacy does exsist imo) if you put forward criticism of israel you are labelled anti-semitic - its exactly the same principle. If you think that this is fiction and doesnt happen - then I would have to disagree with you. Like I said the anti-semitic thing doesnt seem to get thrown about as much on boards, but the racist tag does.

Stark

Hobart wrote:

Oh, I see. When somebody has the gall to actually question your argument, you try and debase their statement with the use of some pseudo-humorous retort. Why don't you just answer the question? Can you?

Do you even know what a "race" is?

I would assume by Tony Blair's race he means Caucasian. Although there's a lot of debate as to whether Caucasian is a proper distinct race. Of course what defines race is also up for debate.

In any case, Irish vs English is more a case of nationality than race as we're almost identical blood-wise.

Doctor Fell

ChityWest wrote:

And usually (it seems to me) when they simply want to stifle opposition to whatever the argument is about that they are in favour of. It reminds me a lot if the situation as regards israel/palestine - not so much on the boards but generally and in particularly in the PC heavy usa - (yes Politically correct lunacy does exsist imo) if you put forward criticism of israel you are labelled anti-semitic - its exactly the same principle. If you think that this is fiction and doesnt happen - then I would have to disagree with you. Like I said the anti-semitic thing doesnt seem to get thrown about as much on boards, but the racist tag does.

I agree with you that the anti-semite charge is often wrongly thrown at people who criticise Israel for their actions against Palestinians. That's very annoying alright, but I don't think it's the same situation here at all. Since we're talking about racism its also ironic considering Jews and Arabs are both Semite peoples.

ChityWest

Doctor Fell wrote:

I agree with you that the anti-semite charge is often wrongly thrown at people who criticise Israel for their actions against Palestinians. That's very annoying alright, but I don't think it's the same situation here at all. Since we're talking about racism its also ironic considering Jews and Arabs are both Semite peoples.

I dont think its quite as prevalent in general (the racist slur) - but on boards.ie in my experience it is a bit of an issue. Whereas funnily enough not too many people get called anti-semitic for criticising israel here as they do in the outside world - it seems we are over that hump and a teeny bit more sophisticated to fall for that tactic in those debates. But not this other one of saying people who -as an example, people who take a viewpoint opposing that of RAR are 'racist'.

* edit - I think accusing somone of racism ought to be a bannable offence - or at least a warnable one - in the same way that actual racism is a bannable offence.

Hagar

Once again, show me exactly where I claim to be a racist. Put up or shut up.

Doctor Fell wrote:

...formed by believing hearsay and rumours about "them foreigners". So it is a well founded personal remark.

A cleverly contructed lie. Those word don't appear in my post, so it is not well founded.
You are just making things up to justify your stance.
If you can't be honest don't bother posting lies.

Doctor Fell

FYI, from a quick google on WIKIPEDIA:
"
The term race distinguishes a population of humans (or non-humans) from other populations.....
Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, vary by culture and over time and are often controversial, for scientific reasons as well as their impact on social identity and identity politics. Legal definitions, common usage, and scientific meaning can all be conflated, causing confusion and controversy.

".

Hobart

Stark wrote:

I would assume by Tony Blair's race he means Caucasian. Although there's a lot of debate as to whether Caucasian is a proper distinct race. Of course what defines race is also up for debate.

In any case, Irish vs English is more a case of nationality than race as we're almost identical blood-wise.

But is this not the point? In order for somebody to support or argue against one side of the argument, he/she must know what they are talking about.

Bandying about terms like race, racist et-al and, not actually know what you are talking about, is foolish.

AFAIK there is no overall acceptance of what actually defines a race. Who is to say that the British are not a race?

The term you used, was once used to define the people of Caucasia. It then morphed to be used to describe descendents of people from Europe, North Africa, West Asia, South Asia. These days it is used to describe sombodies skin colour (loosely).

My point is, you cannot define what race is and who is one race and who is another, if you actually don't have a basis to define those people on.

The Corinthian

Doctor Fell wrote:

FYI, from a quick google on WIKIPEDIA:

Quoting it does not mean you understand it. Now, I too would be very interested to see where you flet Hagar admitted to being a racist.

Doctor Fell

Hagar wrote:

Once again, show me exactly where I claim to be a racist. Put up or shut up.
.

No you shut up!
lol

Seriously, and for the last time....
In your original post you admitted that hearsay and rumours about foreigners had influenced your thinking to the extent that you now held prejudicial views on certain people based on their race.
OK???
Just read your original post (think it was 2 posts ago).

Now put up or shut up will ya!!

Hobart

Doctor Fell wrote:

FYI, from a quick google on WIKIPEDIA:
"
The term race distinguishes a population of humans (or non-humans) from other populations.....
Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, vary by culture and over time and are often controversial, for scientific reasons as well as their impact on social identity and identity politics. Legal definitions, common usage, and scientific meaning can all be conflated, causing confusion and controversy.

".

That's exactly my point. You could also say that a race is a group of persons connected by some form of common descent. I have seen a definition of race wherby one's physical distinctions are a deciding factor.

It is foolish to label a person one race or another, based solely on looks. You can also not exclude others either.

Doctor Fell

The Corinthian wrote:

Quoting it does not mean you understand it.

Oh I see, you are the only educated person on this site, is that it?
Thx for your concern, but yes, I do indeed understand it. Your condescending attitude I don't understand though.
R-a-c-e, it's a big word alright.

Hagar

All I said was I would be cautious in my dealings with certain people.
How many people receive scam emails each day originating from a certain African country? The country is as famous for them as Ireland is for Guinness, Leprachauns and bombs. Have you ever received an email from that country that wasn't a scam? I get them every day. I could skim through my deleted posts and post up a few if you like.


PS - Nothing personal Doc, just fighting the good fight

Doctor Fell

Hagar wrote:

How many people receive scam emails each day originating from a certain African country? The country is as famous for them as Ireland is for Guinness, Leprachauns and bombs. Have you ever received an email from that country that wasn't a scam? I get them every day. I could skim through my deleted posts and post up a few if you like.

I'll be honest and say that I have never received any such email originating from an African country. But for some reason I never seem to get any spam mails like everyone else:(
The only one I ever got was from England, but it didn't change my opinions of the english.
I believe you get a lot of dodgy emails, fair enough, but I'm surprised that it effects your interaction with Nigerians (I assume its Nigerians). Ireland may be famous for Leprechauns, but that doesn't make it true! It still makes me laugh when I remember the dissappointed Americans I met in Cork one time, who'd been looking for Leprechauns all day and couldn't find them. I told them to hang in there, they only come out at night.

Hagar

Latest Scam Email wrote:

Hon. Dr. Adeniji Olu
Minister, Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Awolowo Road,
Lagos Nigeria.
Date: 19Th May 2006
PAYMENT SOLUTION :
I am Hon. Dr. Adeniji Olu, Minister Foreign Affairs Ministry; my office
monitors and controls the affairs of all banks and financial
institutions in Nigeria...

/Edit to be fair that had an Italian email address, bloody wops, huh.
What do you think of my new avatar? Is it PC enough do you think?