2 penalty points from Unmarked Subaru

ninty9er

Heinrich wrote:

Er, criminals actually!

If I meant offender then I would say offender.

:mad:

Open to correction but one only becomes a criminal on being caught charged and convicted, hitherto one is an offender

parsi

One of the problems is that the Guards have to be seen to do something. This is directed by their Political masters.

Unfortunately on most of the dodgy stetches of roads where a speed trap would be handy there isn't anywhere for them to operate it .

RobAMerc

I said it before and I will say it again.

This forum is full of people with no real interest in cars, just no interest in anything else and drive a car so come on here commenting and looking down their noses from their high moral ground.

'its easy not to get caught dont speed'
This cr*p really sickens me.

bushy...

Why do they always get dodgy stuff to drive ? One forester already connected with a wall in Limerick (in a housing estate chasing a car) ...why not buy them quattros or imprezas or something that would equal the handling etc of what they need to chase ?
For bikes they got landed with Deauvilles (a bike aimed at the commuter market ffs) among other yokes totally unsuitable through the years

kippy

Okay-there are a lot of people who have posted in here who need to take a step back and look at what they are saying.......
I am going to put a few points forward here which I am sure will be hammered down by those of you who know exactly how to solve all the problems:

The guards cannot be everywhere. There are more laws out there than just the road traffic ones-which they must enforce also. Expecting guards to patrol every highway in the country is not a realistic expectation-and as I said before they do actually put speed checks up on roads outside of Dublin-it just appears that most people who use these boards are based in Dublin and hence only seem to see guards in the Dublin region-I am living in Galway city and regularily travel around the region-and I have seen speed checks, checkpoints etc-its not just a Dublin-dual carriageway, good road etc thing.

The minor roads in this country will always be just that-minor roads. The main national primary routes between the cities and hopefully larger towns are getting improved and upgraded all the time. I dont want to go into the figures but they are massive.
Nobody can expect that the minor roads will all be straightened out and improved for at the same rate. The money involved would be massive-just think of all the landowners who would be forced to sell their land. It is up to the drivers that drive on the to use them with sense.

Someone above commented that speeders can generally handle going that fast, its when they meet a careless driver that the accidents happen.
I would put it to you that this is absolute nonsense. I would call a consistent speeder a careless driver with scant regard for the safety of themselves yet alone other road users. If a speeder was not going so fast when they met a so called "careless driver" they would have adequate time to react to the aforementioned "careless driver"-dont make me get into the science of stopping distance as they have been discussed at length in this forum before.

Do we need to be told by someone that we are going too fast-do we not know these things ourselves. Should we have a high vis garda presence on each and every road in the country-just for a day? Would people complain then that we were turning into a "nanny state" where we needed someone to hold our hands when we drove.

Back to my earlier points - dont break the speed limit-you wont get caught!
Have a bit of sense when driving.
Complain about how things are at the moment-fair enough-but be realistic-admit that driver behaviour and speeding are the main causes of accidents and not an undercover garda stopping some guy doing 121 on a motorway when they could have been down the country stopping the culchies driving fast.

peasant

Why do they always get dodgy stuff to drive ? One forester already connected with a wall in Limerick (in a housing estate chasing a car) ...why not buy them quattros or imprezas or something that would equal the handling etc of what they need to chase ?

Ever thought about the fact that all these high speed chases actually are EXTREMELY dangerous ?

Give back the expensive high powered cars ...get one or two extra helicopters with heat seeking cameras instead. They can follow from above and direct slower and safer normal patrol cars directly to the hideaway or help direct putting up good, effective road blocks.

Turner

A fatal accident costs the tax payer on average in excess of 1 million euros.


And the Gardai were out detecting speeders and catching people driving dangerous covertly in unmarked cars...... What ever will they do next???

Hotblack Desiato

kippy wrote:

The guards cannot be everywhere. There are more laws out there than just the road traffic ones-which they must enforce also.

That's why we need a proper traffic corps.

If 400 people a year were getting murdered, or dying in industrial accidents you can be damn sure resources would be allocated to it. But getting killed on the road is somehow different.

Expecting guards to patrol every highway in the country is not a realistic expectation

Perhaps not, but concentrating exclusively on known "happy hunting grounds" isn't going to benefit road safety, either.

It is up to the drivers that drive on the to use them with sense.

Exactly. But we're not equipping them with the skills to do so, and not testing them adequately.

Do we need to be told by someone that we are going too fast-do we not know these things ourselves.

It seems that a great many people don't. See above.

Complain about how things are at the moment-fair enough-but be realistic-admit that driver behaviour and speeding are the main causes of accidents

Behaviour, absolutely. Speed alone, in the absence of other danger factors, no, not really. (Conversely, driving at the speed limit is frequently not safe, but endless "speed kills" ads give the opposite impression.)

Most of our fatal accidents fall into two categories - the weekend night single vehicle crash into a wall (alcohol? fell asleep? showing off to young male friends? inability to assess safe speed through a corner?) and the head-on collision on a single carriageway road.

There's no such thing as a safe speed on the wrong side of the road with traffic approaching.

and not an undercover garda stopping some guy doing 121 on a motorway when they could have been down the country stopping the culchies driving fast.

I'd really really like to see something done about red light breaking in Dublin. It's long past a joke at this stage, it's the norm not the exception.

Hotblack Desiato

Chief--- wrote:

A fatal accident costs the tax payer on average in excess of 1 million euros.

I see statements along those lines regularly, I'd love to see them substantiated.

IIRC the original calculations stated that that cost was to society - in other words including loss of earnings (not a cost to the taxpayer), financial loss to the family as well as emergency services costs etc.

Actually the greatest cost to the taxpayer would come from those permanently incapacitated who need a great deal of medical care.

NutJob

ismynametoolong wrote:

Mate got stopped this morning outside Naas by the men in blue
who came up behind him in a Red unmarked 06 Subaru Forester Turbo .
121 Kph in a 100 This must be one of the new high powered Jeeps they were on about the traffic Corp receiving .

Ennis got one 2/3 weeks ago

Victor

ninty9er wrote:

Dual carriageways are no the place for these things.

Those who speed on a main road, will be the same ones who will speed on a lesser road.

About 1% of penalty points are handed out on motorways. Motorways account for more than 1% of the road networks a a lot more traffic. One is less likely to get a ticket on a motorway. So there, they are doing it right.

peasant wrote:

Give back the expensive high powered cars ...get one or two extra helicopters with heat seeking cameras instead. They can follow from above and direct slower and safer normal patrol cars directly to the hideaway or help direct putting up good, effective road blocks.

Helicopters cost about 10,000 euros an hour to operate.

ninja900 wrote:

I see statements along those lines regularly, I'd love to see them substantiated. IIRC the original calculations stated that that cost was to society - in other words including loss of earnings (not a cost to the taxpayer), financial loss to the family as well as emergency services costs etc. Actually the greatest cost to the taxpayer would come from those permanently incapacitated who need a great deal of medical care.

Fatal accidents typically have more than one victim. However the average fatalities per fatal accident is about 1.1.

bushy...

peasant wrote:

Ever thought about the fact that all these high speed chases actually are EXTREMELY dangerous ?

My point was not to be giving them stuff that is fast but doesn't handle as well as what they have to chase , which is why i'm sure forester in limerick ended up stuck to wall while car they were pursuing continued on.....

IrishRover

peasant wrote:

Speed limits that actually reflect the state and quality of the road, the severity of bends and the amount of accidents that already happened on any given stretch might be a good start.

No need for electronics.

Or at least ...take back down those 100km/h signs that are positioned in direct proximity to a "accident black spot" - sign. Or maybe those that are positioned right where "Slow" / "Slower" is written on the road surface ???

Plenty of those utterly stupid examples about.

Road safety ----my arse

Only the perfectly safe roads get patroled while umpteen KNOWN accident black spots are just left the way they always were ...(+ the added 100km/h sign, of course)

Yes, speeding is wrong and it contributes to a large number of accidents ...but some of this nations roads come close to gross neglect or even attempted murder ...all by themselves, without anybody speeding.

Chasing people down dual carriageways in high powered cars is not going to change that one bit.

peasant wrote:

Of course he/she is. It will always ultimately be the driver's responsibility to choose the correct speed for the conditions.

Having said that ...

Think back to your last long-ish journey along a stretch of unknown / unfamiliar (country) road. Try and remember, how many times you were "surprised" by a bend that actually was tighter than it looked, a crossroad that (even though signposted) you could only see once you were right on it, a road that changes from highway to boreen without any warning, potholes jumping out at you, flooding on an otherwise just moist road, a quaint old stone bridge that could just about take one car and that a slow speed only, verges that just disappear ...etc, etc ...the list is endless

And all these "surprises" are accompanied by the constant reminder not to go faster than 100 or 80 ...even though doing that speed at that point would be lethal. Having driven for a while on an apparently good road, coming up to a "surprise" a 100 / 80 sign isn't exactly telling you much, is it? In fact it lulls you into a false sense of security ...100 km/h ...sure, the road couldn't be that bad ...

No, it isn't ...it's WORSE !

Either upgrade the roads or introduce selective, adapted speed limits or both ...that would be active road safety.

Chasing people down the few miles of perfectly good road that actually DO exist in this country is just a publicity stunt.

Real road safety measures would mean commitment and a bit of thought would have to be applied. (and money be spent ...big money)
You're not going to see this out of this or any other Irish governement ...or Aunty Gaybo, for that matter.

They rather keep on cashing it in on exorbitant double taxation (VRT, anyone ??) and spend it on a few more tax breaks for developers ...or convention centers, leaking swimming pools ...etc, etc

All that the motorist is getting out of so called "road safety" is getting shafted, the PC-brigade applauds yet another "speeder" getting caught doing 70 on the 60 stretch of a perfectly safe dual carriageway ...allthewhile yet another inexperienced, overconfident driver gets "surprised" on one of the countries back roads and ends his/her life in a ditch.

WELL DONE !

Excellent posts Peasant, well said, and I think you've described the situation as it is in Ireland perfectly.

drdre

ismynametoolong wrote:

Mate got stopped this morning outside Naas by the men in blue
who came up behind him in a Red unmarked 06 Subaru Forester Turbo .
121 Kph in a 100 This must be one of the new high powered Jeeps they were on about the traffic Corp receiving .

yes i heard about this car on the m50 before.bad luck.also they have evo and other cars as they are trying to be in with other cars so you cannot notice them until you are done:D

TempestSabre

Appropriate speed, limits, check points, on appropriate roads. The aim should be to get people who drive dangerously to stop. No one sticks to the limits 100%.

While its great to see more checks, I'd hope it doesn't get like the UK where everyone is bunny hopping at every parked van and sign post and no ones actually concentrating on what they are doing.

vector

kippy wrote:

...dont break the speed limit-you wont get caught!
Have a bit of sense when driving.

<rant>
a nice idea, but do you ever drive on the 80kmph roads? I do almost every day, and without some car appears behind, like a passat drive by a 50 year old woman, or a zafira with children, and it wants to do 100kmph, now this isin't a dual carriageway so it can;t pass, so it pushes and pushes me into doing 100kmph, if I stay at 80kmph I have to move over the the centre line to stop it passing (because I know the road very well and know there is a bend ahead), sometimes I pull in and let the car on its way, only to see that it is happy driving at 80kmph, the driver was just an a$$hole who enjoys driving on peoples back bumpers, or sometimes they race into the distance at 100kmph, and a trait of that kind of driver is they never obey speed limits, they'll continue their 100kmph in a 60 zone</rant>

TempestSabre

Personally when someone drives right up to my bumper I slow right down, which gives them the opportunity to pass. Howevr 9 times out of 10 they won't overtake and will back off since you've basically called their bluff.

Usually they haven't the skills to overtake properly, as driving off someones bumper obscures your view of the road ahead, and is poor technique.

I agree with vector though, most of these kind of drivers are not able to drive fast they simply like tailgating for some reason, its likes some from of lemming personality. A lot of the time when they actually do get past they drive slower than you were originally. I think they simply follow your break lights to know how fast to take corners etc.

If you've a car that corners well, you can see them struggle when you don't break into tight/fast corners (so no break lights) and they barrel on through matching your speed. Gives them a hell of a fright.

Whereas if someone catches you very fast then sits a constant 2-3 car behind lengths behind you know its a decent driver I make a special effort to help them pass. Personally I hate people behind me.

optiplexgx270

LOL personally i like to be the one following (cos it slows me down:)) But im not a tail gater just like to have a car in front of me thats doing roughly the speed limit otherwise im doing about 80-90mph up to the next car on most roads.

Funny thing is not sure if im gettin old or what but i find myself sticking to the limits more and more these days gone are the 110Mph days on the 40mph (50kph now :rolleyes:) sections of the N11.

In Dublin though i break the speed limit 95% of the time ie when in not at lights not by a lot but enough but when i venture onto the country roads /motorways istick to the speed limits as thats where most of the really bad (death) crashes happen.

vector

I think that tailgaters do what they do in the belief that if there is a speedtrap ahead it will be the first car that is caught and not themselves.

So they push you into speeding and then you are the one that gets the penalty points.

This could be solved if the gardai sitting at the side of the road decided to put down their speed guns for a moment, and instead take photograph of tailgaters.

optiplexgx270

vector wrote:

I think that tailgaters do what they do in the belief that if there is a speedtrap ahead it will be the first car that is caught and not themselves.

So they push you into speeding and then you are the one that gets the penalty points.

This could be solved if the gardai sitting at the side of the road decided to put down their speed guns for a moment, and instead take photograph of tailgaters.

That doesnt work bit of a myth that

TempestSabre

Sorry IMO "pushed" faster is BS.

vector

TempestSabre wrote:

Sorry IMO "pushed" faster is BS.

Excellent semantic work TempestSabre, it is indeed true that there is no physical connection between the tailgaters vehicle and the first vehicle.

But the point is that there could be... and so the driver of the first vehicle will accelerate to get away from the problem.

TempestSabre

I think its BS in the way you meant it. If you're that weak willed/panicked to be pressured into breaking the law then you shouldn't be driving.

The problem is behind you. By accelerating the problem is STILL behind you. If someone is that nuts to tailgate and/or crash into you, you are never going to outdrag them. They are simply crazier than you.

parsi

An unamrked Forester was sitting with gun pointing out window on the on-ramp on the Patrickswell bypass yesterday during the match. Bit surprised to see it there seeing as the road was fairly quiet.

drdre

parsi wrote:

An unamrked Forester was sitting with gun pointing out window on the on-ramp on the Patrickswell bypass yesterday during the match. Bit surprised to see it there seeing as the road was fairly quiet.

thats the time they catch people as the road is empty so people put the foot down

Victor

optiplexgx270 wrote:

In Dublin though i break the speed limit 95% of the time ie when in not at lights not by a lot but enough but when i venture onto the country roads /motorways istick to the speed limits as thats where most of the really bad (death) crashes happen.

If you have a heavy foot in urban areas, try using a lower gear.

optiplexgx270

Victor wrote:

If you have a heavy foot in urban areas, try using a lower gear.

Just keeping up with the general flow of traffic in dublin is breaking the limit in the city sticking to 50kph is a joke ive tried it a few time and it ends up with you causing a tailback.

TempestSabre

Expect lots of points so. Kinda half agree with you though, the limits seem kinda low in lots of places, to me (long wide roads with no direct residential access), and its a struggle to always stay beneath them. That said in heavy traffic its not much of a problem. I switch between a few cars a lot and I find driving a low powered car (1.0) helps a lot. Whereas driving a faster car the speeds creep up. Most modern cars are overpowered for driving around urban areas.

Unfortunately if you get caught, it won't matter. Though I have heard the cops are not sticking to the letter of the law in 50kph zones. They've been putting traps on some of the feeder/distributor roads in our area lately, which is great since theres guy in modified cars doing close to the ton on them, but they are likely to catch lots of mainly good drivers doing just over the limit, on what they consider a safe open stretch of road.

We've a culture of ignoring the rules/laws. Its a hard habit to break. Especially when the road system, design, signage, signals is so poor.

drdre

optiplexgx270 wrote:

Just keeping up with the general flow of traffic in dublin is breaking the limit in the city sticking to 50kph is a joke ive tried it a few time and it ends up with you causing a tailback.

yes i have to agree with you.the people that came up with the speedlimts donot have a clue really as some roads a bloody ridiculous.and some have really high limits on small winding roads

smash

Saw un unmarked Garda car in Donnybrook today, BMW 235ci I think the reg was.