Hug the Tar baby

Hobbes

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060516-4.html

Snow wrote:

Again, I would take you back to the USA Today story, simply to give you a little context. Look at the poll that appeared the following day. While there was -- part of it said 51 percent of the American people opposed, if you look at when people said, if there is a roster of phone numbers, do you feel comfortable that -- I'm paraphrasing and I apologize -- but something like 64 percent of the polling was not troubled by it. Having said that, I don't want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program -- the alleged program -- the existence of which I can neither confirm nor deny.

Followed by..

...And would you put into English the phrase, "hug the tar baby"?

MR. SNOW: Well, when we hug the tar baby -- we could trace that back to American lore.

ROFLMAO.. incredible. The next question should be is he a member of the KKK.

oscarBravo

Hmm... is that a Brer Rabbit reference, or does it have other connotations I'm not aware of?

[edit] I see it's morphed into a racial slur. Ah well.

Tar.Aldarion

I expected something very different let me tell you...

mike65

http://www.answers.com/tar+baby&r=67

Not a racist defintion, for a reason. Just cos its background is African via the deep South so what?

Mike.

Sand

Not a racist defintion, for a reason. Just cos its background is African via the deep South so what?

Mike, it was a slow news day and Hobbes had to work with what was available. Cut him some slack.

Hobbes

mike65 wrote:

http://www.answers.com/tar+baby&r=67

Not a racist defintion, for a reason. Just cos its background is African via the deep South so what?

Mike.

Actually Tar Baby has racial connotations. It is a derogatory term for a black person in the US. Strange that there are news stories out now that say just that.

Daily Show (2:35)

http://mediamatters.org/items/200605170012

Sand you want to attack the post feel free, but less of the smart arse comments about myself.

Sand

Sand you want to attack the post feel free, but less of the smart arse comments about myself.

I thought I did? Or is mentioning your name a personal attack these days?

Lets face it, Hobbes - your post was a lot of fuss about exactly feck all. Theres no indication that I know of that Snows a racist, a white supremacist or indeed a member of the KKK as you implied. Being a Republican or having worked for Fox News isnt enough to secure a conviction for hate crimes yet, but Im sure somebodys working on reforming the corrupt judiciary that prevents this.

Im not familiar with the phrase of hugging the tar baby, but as mikes indicated its derived from Br'er rabbit tales - I dont really recall reading them, the Boy who called Wolf was always a better tale imo.

I mean, is there anything else you forgot to add that shows Snow meant anything else by it? Its blatant from the context what he meant, so unless youve got something that demonstrates he felt a question about the NSA wiretaps was a good chance to insult black people....Oh wait, the Daily Show makes fun of Republican shocker (!1!1!1one!1). During which, Jon runs through a few "racially charged" comments of his own - I guess hes a closet racist too?

TBH Hobbes, Im going to bookmark this thread for the next time anyone trys to claim theres a witchunt against people who say bad things about Bush. If there is, its the normal standard of political discourse in the US.

Hobbes

Sand wrote:

I thought I did? Or is mentioning your name a personal attack these days?

The comment was directed at me. Not the post.

your post was a lot of fuss about exactly feck all.

Actually I pointed it out after I was halfway through reading the press report. It is a questionable comment that for someone who just started a job as press seceretry should know better to avoid such phrases.

Of course its not a big deal to you now, but I'm sure if we looked at another similar situation you would feel differently no?

Nevyn

It is a sensative term and Snow is showing his lack of cultural and racial awareness by using it. Way to go to alienate people that soon in the job of whitehouse communicator.

oscarBravo

Sand wrote:

Im not familiar with the phrase of hugging the tar baby, but as mikes indicated its derived from Br'er rabbit tales

I thought I indicated that first... :mad:

mike65

I had forgotten the tar baby tale even existed until this thread and I don't recall being damaged by it as a child.

Mike.

Sand

The comment was directed at me. Not the post.

I really cant help it if you associate yourself so closely with your post.

someone who just started a job as press seceretry should know better to avoid such phrases.

True, if only because people will freak out and blow it out of all proportion. This is about as newsworthy as a Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction.

Of course its not a big deal to you now, but I'm sure if we looked at another similar situation you would feel differently no?

Oh yeah, I was all out calling for her show trial and execution :rolleyes:

It is a sensative term and Snow is showing his lack of cultural and racial awareness by using it.

Who knows - maybe hes so colourblind and non-racist that he cant properly associate racist tones to every phrase and comment like he should. Were not far of the day when terms like "in black and white" are banned for inciting racial hatred.

I thought I indicated that first...

But Mike provided a link...youve got to go that extra mile :cool:

I had forgotten the tar baby tale even existed until this thread and I don't recall being damaged by it as a child.

Well its a good thing you were alerted to the evil Neo-Con plot to indocrinate you with racist hatred as a child, isnt it.

Frederico

Sand wrote:

I thought I did? Or is mentioning your name a personal attack these days?

Lets face it, Hobbes - your post was a lot of fuss about exactly feck all. Theres no indication that I know of that Snows a racist, a white supremacist or indeed a member of the KKK as you implied. Being a Republican or having worked for Fox News isnt enough to secure a conviction for hate crimes yet, but Im sure somebodys working on reforming the corrupt judiciary that prevents this.

Im not familiar with the phrase of hugging the tar baby, but as mikes indicated its derived from Br'er rabbit tales - I dont really recall reading them, the Boy who called Wolf was always a better tale imo.

I mean, is there anything else you forgot to add that shows Snow meant anything else by it? Its blatant from the context what he meant, so unless youve got something that demonstrates he felt a question about the NSA wiretaps was a good chance to insult black people....Oh wait, the Daily Show makes fun of Republican shocker (!1!1!1one!1). During which, Jon runs through a few "racially charged" comments of his own - I guess hes a closet racist too?

TBH Hobbes, Im going to bookmark this thread for the next time anyone trys to claim theres a witchunt against people who say bad things about Bush. If there is, its the normal standard of political discourse in the US.

So if Prince Philip had said this noone would have noticed? Lets stick to reality please.

Sand

So if Prince Philip had said this noone would have noticed? Lets stick to reality please.

No, it would have been blown out of all proportion too, but the people whod be misleading people would be different - whoever dislikes Prince Phillip and the UK Royals in general - which would be a pretty large group admittedly. The story would be the same though, Group B wilfully misinterpreting a blatantly innocent statement by Group A, so as to reinforce their (Group B's) biases about Group A. Heres an example of satire of the hysteria that usually accompanies these efforts, by Newton Emerson of Portadown News/Irish Times noteriety.

Either way, it wasnt Prince Phillip who said it, it was Snow, White House Press Secetary - so yes, lets stick to reality please. Prince Phillip has a history of being a knob, Snow doesnt as far as Im aware, apart from taking a job with Fox News. The fact that he hasnt been put to death (wooops, life without parole) for this political crime is a shocking indictment of the corrupt US court system.

GuanYin

Frederico wrote:

So if Prince Philip had said this noone would have noticed? Lets stick to reality please.

Actually, noone would have cared because (A) he has nothing to do with running or speaking for any powerful governments and (B) this is an Irish board - the british royals represent nothing more than a diversionary target for comedy here..

Hobbes

psi wrote:

Actually, noone would have cared

Yea its not like he dressed up as a nazi for a fancy dress party or anything?

sand wrote:

Prince Phillip has a history of being a knob, Snow doesnt as far as Im aware, apart from taking a job with Fox News.

Well heres a thought, why not check and make sure?

Hmm lets see, had a rummage around.
- Claimed on Fox News Plame was not a covert operative so her outing was ok. As well as other false related information.
- Supported the Swift Boat Vets.
- Made false statements to detract from Bushes champange squadron mess.
- Claims that ID is on par with Evolution.
- Various false claims in regards to the phone records/NSA incident to favor Bush.
- Called Gitmo "the most humane prisoner-of-war facility in history"
- Called Rights protestors "Idiots".

Sounds like a bit of a knob to me, but then someone who says a racially charged statement on thier first day is sort of a hint.

TomF

"Tar Baby" isn't the only racist term being used here. What about "White House"? It must be obvious to the casual observer of the American scene that the term "White House" instead of the neutral "Presidential Palace" is meant to keep people of colour in their place.

GuanYin

Hobbes wrote:

Yea its not like he dressed up as a nazi for a fancy dress party or anything?

Seriously, so what?

I've been to parties with people dressed up as the Pope, Bin Laden, Hitler, Guantanamo detainees and even the Twin towers (with embedded planes). When Irish people do it its all a big laugh.

Its a fancy dress party and its not meant to be a political statement and I'm sure as a young college attendee thats all he was doing. Ok so he is a royal, but really, so what and who cares. Just cos he's born into some inbred dynasty doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed share a bad taste joke with his friends.

metrovelvet

Questions:

1. Is it true that the British Royal family are actually Germans?

2. How did the term tar baby develop its bad connotations? I don't think I had every actually heard the term until today. I had only known of it as a title to a Toni Morrison novel.

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

Questions:

1. Is it true that the British Royal family are actually Germans?

Yes, in the same way that all non-native americans are really africans or europeans.

lostexpectation

psi wrote:

Seriously, so what?

I've been to parties with people dressed up as the Pope, Bin Laden, Hitler, Guantanamo detainees and even the Twin towers (with embedded planes). When Irish people do it its all a big laugh.

Its a fancy dress party and its not meant to be a political statement and I'm sure as a young college attendee thats all he was doing. Ok so he is a royal, but really, so what and who cares. Just cos he's born into some inbred dynasty doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed share a bad taste joke with his friends.

seriously :eek: tell us about this purile party?

metrovelvet

Yes, in the same way that all non-native americans are really africans or europeans.

So basically it depends on whether you apply American or European paradigms of identity.

Hobbes - of you are really so concerned about language and influence shouldnt you be tackling the frequent use of the word "nigga" in hip hop, after all more people listen to that than they do to this guy.

GuanYin

lostexpectation wrote:

seriously :eek: tell us about this purile party?

Was actually a few different ones in the same house over a few years.
Same guy does most of the bad taste ones.

Usually great though.

But really, do you balk at Family Guy? South Park? Mel Brooks numerous Nazi gags? Faulty Towers?

I mean it MUST it is well over 22.3 years since WWII so we can all make jokes about it now and find them funny.

GuanYin

metrovelvet wrote:

So basically it depends on whether you apply American or European paradigms of identity.

No, even simpler. Basically it depends on whether you classify someone by what they themselves are or what their ancestors were.

Hobbes - of you are really so concerned about language and influence shouldnt you be tackling the frequent use of the word "nigga" in hip hop, after all more people listen to that than they do to this guy.

Huck Griffin "But... I thought that was your name!"
Black guy "no thats OUR word! You have no right usin' it!"
Huck Griffin "ok... could you pass me the oar... N-word Jim?"
Black guy "Thank you."

Hobbes

metrovelvet wrote:

Hobbes - of you are really so concerned about language and influence shouldnt you be tackling the frequent use of the word "nigga" in hip hop, after all more people listen to that than they do to this guy.

Psi points it out with the FGuy reference. References can infer a tribal meaning which can be taken offensively if your not within that tribal reference.

For example, Paddy, Mick, Seamus some years back had negative connotations when referring to an Irish person in England. However an Irish person using the term was less likely to cause offense.

Likewise nigga, you will find that black comedians routinely make fun of this, yet if a white person was to do the same is liable to end up dead (if they were doing it to the same audience).

Anyway a person who is representative for government, or official should show a bit more decorum.

metrovelvet

Hobbes wrote:

Psi points it out with the FGuy reference. References can infer a tribal meaning which can be taken offensively if your not within that tribal reference. .

Except that there are lot of black Americans who do find it offensive despite this having worked so hard to get people to stop using it. Mick doesnt have the same hatred invested in it,so its not a fair comparison. And that the hip hop audience extends its tribalism outside of black America.

Hobbes wrote:

Likewise nigga, you will find that black comedians routinely make fun of this, yet if a white person was to do the same is liable to end up dead (if they were doing it to the same audience)..

Opps. I think you're white sheet is showing.

Hobbes wrote:

Anyway a person who is representative for government, or official should show a bit more decorum.

What's that saying about pot and kettle?

Hobart

Hobbes wrote:

Likewise nigga, you will find that black comedians routinely make fun of this, yet if a white person was to do the same is liable to end up dead (if they were doing it to the same audience).

Would you say the same about an non-Irish person making fun of the Mick/Paddy reference in front of an Irish audience?

You are as ignorant as you are trying to make Snow out to be, if the above quotation is a true representation of what you believe.

RedPlanet

Hobart wrote:

Would you say the same about an non-Irish person making fun of the Mick/Paddy reference in front of an Irish audience?

You are as ignorant as you are trying to make Snow out to be, if the above quotation is a true representation of what you believe.

Yes, ever stumbled out of a pub in London to have some copper watchin you and then call out to you "c'mere Paddy!" ?
It's all in the tone and context.

Christy Moore understands:
"In nineteen hundred and eighty six
There's not much for a chippie but swinging a pick
And you can't live on love, on love alone
So you sail cross the ocean, away cross the foam

To where you're a Paddy, a Biddy or a Mick
Good for nothing but stacking a brick"

GuanYin

Lets not fall out people.

I think your a bit out of order with your comment there Hobbes, even before the replies I thought it questionable to insinuate that a black audience equals merderous mob (which is what you inferred).

On the other hand, I've heard the terms Mick and Paddy used with malice (not at me mind you) and I often think that such terms are more about intent of use than actual utterance. Globally, they may not have the same spite in general use now but thats mainly because the Irish have truely integrated into all the societies they've emmigrated to - to the point we're they're a predominant heritage.

RedPlanet

I'd be curious to hear of what global societies have a heritage that is predominately Irish.

ressem

Checked the term up in the racist slur database.

Found out, on the way, that I had insulted my sister in NZ when I asked her whether she had got a 'woolie jumper'. According to it, words like apple can be used in appalling contexts. If you want to worry about having caused offence after-the-event of talking to anyone from a culture/background different to your own, see http://www.rsdb.org


Snow's use of the term was in tune with the kids story. Even if he appears to be an evasive PR bollix, covering up all sorts of stuff, I'd be confident that he'd not heard of the negative connuctation. And that that is not the reason why he should be castigated.