Latency: Eircom vs. NTL

Maximilian

I'm moving into a new apartment shortly & I need to sort out broadband but can't decide whether to go with eircom or ntl. NTL seems to offer more bandwith for less cash than eircom.

Since I use BB for gaming a lot, can anyone tell me which is better suited to this purpose? Which offers the lower latency?

Thanks in advance.

PixelTrawler

i dont think theres an exact answer to this. It can depend on the exact connection - how good is the line, is there any noise etc

however i had eircom for a year and it was great... generally pings were 25ms or less and always very solid

i moved house in jan and we got in ntl and pings vary all the time - typically 40-75ms and game play is affected sometimes. We've had our line checked and have been told we have a very clean signal so we cant seem to get it resolved...

i read others though getting great pings on ntl - really solid and others having probs with eircom so its hard to answer....

i personally wouldnt recommend ntl for gaming but i could be an exception - mind you battlefield 2 is most affected - half life 2 based games arent as affected and xbox 360 live seems fine too

Edit : just ran a ping -t to boards.ie to see it is any better lately and it still does the odd spike over 120ms - say every 20 pings or so and it these spikes that get you killed in battlefield!

bk

What Joebloggs4817 said above is very true. I've had the opposite experience to him. I had DSL in the past and NTL now. NTL's pings are far lower then my DSL pings were.

So either way you won't know until you get it. Personally I think 10m/512k for €40 from NTL is unbeatable.

lucernarian

bk wrote:

What Joebloggs4817 said above is very true. I've had the opposite experience to him. I had DSL in the past and NTL now. NTL's pings are far lower then my DSL pings were.

So either way you won't know until you get it. Personally I think 10m/512k for €40 from NTL is unbeatable.

10mbits is maximum. It is only advertised at 6 Mbit.

DemonOfTheFall

You should get better pings with the eircom. That said, you shouldn't have any trouble gaming on an ntl connection either, it just won't be quite as good as the eircom one, ping-wise.

Freddie59

To_be_confirmed wrote:

10mbits is maximum. It is only advertised at 6 Mbit.

Your point is?

Maximilian

Thanks for the info everyone.

lucernarian

Freddie59 wrote:

Your point is?

My point is that for those looking to buy NTL's maximum speed package, 10 Mbits is not guaranteed and that if you only get 6 Mbits, then it's tough luck basically.

dub45

bk wrote:

What Joebloggs4817 said above is very true. I've had the opposite experience to him. I had DSL in the past and NTL now. NTL's pings are far lower then my DSL pings were.

So either way you won't know until you get it. Personally I think 10m/512k for €40 from NTL is unbeatable.

You always forget to include the cost of the basic tv package!:)

lucernarian

And to be impartial, we must remember that eircom has the compulsory line rental of €24.18 per month.

Foxwood

dub45 wrote:

You always forget to include the cost of the basic tv package!:)

That's only an issue for people who don't want the basic TV package - a tiny fraction of their customer base.

Foxwood

To_be_confirmed wrote:

And to be impartial, we must remember that eircom has the compulsory line rental of €24.18 per month.

That's only an issue for people who don't want a telephone - a tiny fraction of their customer base.

bk

Foxwood wrote:

That's only an issue for people who don't want a telephone - a tiny fraction of their customer base.

I've had this argument before, far more people don't want a telephone (as they already have a mobile) then people who don't want TV.

In the last 12 months the number of line rentals has dropped by some 12% which pretty much proves the point.

Plus I didn't mention the TV requirement, because it still would work out far cheaper then Eircom:

Eircom 3m + line rental = €79
Eircom 5m + line rental = €224
NTL 10m(6m)/512k + TV = €60
NTL 3m + TV = €50
NTL 3m + TV + Eircom Line Rental = €74
NTL 3m + TV + Blueface VOIP (free local and national calls) = €65

So it doesn't matter what way you paint it, NTL is far cheaper and far faster.

Even if you don't decide to use the TV (got Sky for instance), it would still be cheaper to get NTL and just don't use the TV part.

dub45

Foxwood wrote:

That's only an issue for people who don't want the basic TV package - a tiny fraction of their customer base.

And what do you base that statement on? When did you do the survey?

Foxwood

dub45 wrote:

And what do you base that statement on? When did you do the survey?

I tell you what, you show me your survey figures, and I'll show you mine.

But before you get off your arse and start conducting your survey, bear in mind that less than 15% of NTLs customers have broadband. You'd be hard pushed to find many people in the 85% who don't have broadband that are paying for the TV service even though they don't want it.

dub45

Foxwood wrote:

I tell you what, you show me your survey figures, and I'll show you mine.

But before you get off your arse and start conducting your survey, bear in mind that less than 15% of NTLs customers have broadband. You'd be hard pushed to find many people in the 85% who don't have broadband that are paying for the TV service even though they don't want it.

You made a claim - I asked you what you based it on - obviously you based it on nothing other than your own opinion.

The point at issue is the number of people who might want NTL BB but not the televison service. I dont think anyone other than your good self could find your last point in anyway relevant as I am sure that the vast majority of NTL non bb customers are rational people who are not making a bimonthly charitable donation to NTL.

bk

dub45 wrote:

And what do you base that statement on? When did you do the survey?

While I haven't done a survey, from personal experience, the TV is less of a big deal then line rental.

I rent my house and share with others, every time I look for new house mates, they seem to be shocked that we have a phone line and want them to share the cost, they always complain "but I got a mobile, what do I want a landline for".

I have never heard any of them complain about the NTL TV charge.

Also the number of Eircoms line rentals is dropping at a frightening pace.
NTL TV subs are increasing.

Also as I pointed out above NTL is still far cheaper then Eircom even with the TV rental included.

How I see it is that with NTL I'm actually getting something useful,`18 TV channels on multiple TV's. With Eircom I'm paying more just for the right to be charged even more by them (call charges).

Blaster99

Is this number of eircom lines falling a claim that can be substantiated?

dub45

bk wrote:

While I haven't done a survey, from personal experience, the TV is less of a big deal then line rental.

I rent my house and share with others, every time I look for new house mates, they seem to be shocked that we have a phone line and want them to share the cost, they always complain "but I got a mobile, what do I want a landline for".

I have never heard any of them complain about the NTL TV charge.

Also the number of Eircoms line rentals is dropping at a frightening pace.
NTL TV subs are increasing.

Also as I pointed out above NTL is still far cheaper then Eircom even with the TV rental included.

How I see it is that with NTL I'm actually getting something useful,`18 TV channels on multiple TV's. With Eircom I'm paying more just for the right to be charged even more by them (call charges)

.

Not necessarily - there is nothing to stop you having your calls with someone else!

Lots of people do find a telphone service very useful indeed for instance its very hard to run a business without one! While a sky subscriber might not find NTL's tv service attractive while wanting its bb service.

And there are lots of other products where the base payment is only a prelude to lots of other charges.

bk

Blaster99 wrote:

Is this number of eircom lines falling a claim that can be substantiated?

I've just checked the SEC filings, it has dropped from 1,586 in 2003 to 1,407 in 2006. So it isn't as bad as I first thought, but still indicative.

bk

dub45 wrote:

Not necessarily - there is nothing to stop you having your calls with someone else!

True, but either way you have to pay extra for the calls with some one.

dub45 wrote:

Lots of people do find a telphone service very useful indeed for instance its very hard to run a business without one!

True, that is why I have a phone, however you can get much cheaper VoIP services over NTL and as I pointed out for most people they don't want a phone any more as they have a mobile.

dub45 wrote:

While a sky subscriber might not find NTL's tv service attractive while wanting its bb service.

True, but paying for NTL BB, TV and Sky will still work out cheaper then Eircom.

NTL BB 3m + TV + Sky (2 packages) = €71.50
Eircom 3m + Line Rental = €79

Or how about this:

NTL BB 3m + TV + Sky (2 packages) + Blueface Voip = €86.50
NTL BB 10m + TV + Sky (2 packages) + Blueface Voip = €96.50
Eircom 3m + Line Rental + Sky (2 packages) = €100
Eircom 5m + Line Rental + Sky (2 packages) = €245

You see still cheaper and the NTL setup is good for multiroom TV, you get free local and national calls.

So whatever way you skin it NTL is still cheaper and better then Eircom.

alterneight

eircom have another 197 thousand lines from wlr not included in the 1407 number

Foxwood

bk wrote:

and as I pointed out for most people they don't want a phone any more as they have a mobile.

Most people? Most people would rather pay landline rates to make phonecalls - even off-peak calls on a mobile work out at about a euro for 5-7 minutes!!!!

If you talk on the phone for 10 minutes each evening, it'll cost you about €45 a month. You only have to call a landline for 5 minutes a day (off peak!) from a mobile to make a landline cheaper

Eircom Line Rental plus 150 minutes of off-peak local calls = €24.18 plus €1.90
Vodafone charges 15c, 19c or up to 35c/min off peak to other vodafone numbers of landlines. Even at 15c/min, one 5 minute off peak call per day to a landline number will cost you €22.50.

Unless you only call other mobile users on your own network, you don't have to use your phone much for a landline to make some economic sense, especially if you're interested in DSL.

Blaster99

alterneight wrote:

eircom have another 197 thousand lines from wlr not included in the 1407 number

So the number of lines has actually increased slightly? That's still a pretty poor performance if one considers the amount of housing being built.

foxwood wrote:

Eircom Line Rental plus 150 minutes of off-peak local calls = €24.18 plus €1.90

It's not really a counter-argument but 3's VideoTalk 200 gives you 200 minutes to any mobile or landline in Ireland or the UK per month for €24.99 a month, with video if you feel like it. Makes eircom and the rest seem a tad on the expensive side.

Foxwood

Blaster99 wrote:

It's not really a counter-argument but 3's VideoTalk 200 gives you 200 minutes to any mobile or landline in Ireland or the UK per month for €24.99 a month, with video if you feel like it. Makes eircom and the rest seem a tad on the expensive side.

From the 3ireland Website -

Video calls are not included as part of your monthly minutes allowance.

The point is that even though eircoms landline charges are bordering on criminal, you don't have to use your mobile phone much - less than 10 minutes a day to landlines - to save money by getting a landline, which can (sometimes) also be used to get broadband.

bk

Foxwood wrote:

The point is that even though eircoms landline charges are bordering on criminal, you don't have to use your mobile phone much - less than 10 minutes a day to landlines - to save money by getting a landline, which can (sometimes) also be used to get broadband.

This has gone OT, but here is another example, Easy life 2000 from 02 gives you 2000 off peak minutes free to O2 and national numbers.

Yes, I agree a landline can save you money, however purely from personal experience, I've seen a real apathy amongst people under 30 towards using landlines. Most of the people in my age group only ever call mobile to mobile.

Despite having UTV landline with free local and national calls, other then for work, I only ever use it for calling my parents. I always use my mobile for calling friends, either because they don't have a land line or I'd rarely catch them at home. The only reason most of my friends have a landline is to get BB. They all consider the land line a complete waste and they say they never use it.

When I was at college I never had a land line and if it wasn't for the teleworking I do, I would probably also get rid of it.

I do understand that mobiles are more expensive, but it just seems to be a generational thing, people of my generation are simply too attached to our mobiles and see a land line as completely useless ("and like so last century!!")

Foxwood

bk wrote:

This has gone OT, but here is another example, Easy life 2000 from 02 gives you 2000 off peak minutes free to O2 and national numbers.

Or 500 minutes to non O2 mobiles. As a matter of interest, are interconnect charges so ridiculous in other EU countries?

(And yes, that tariff works out cheaper than a landline if you make an hour of off-peak calls a day).