Charges against 33 cathedral protest Afghans may be dropped

Read the other thread. There is a clear undercurrent of glee at capturing such notorious criminals as the Afghans. The suggestion that they hadn't actually done a whole lot wrong bar get a few Services postponed was dismissed, apparently they were right up with the worst criminal masterminds of our history and they did such nefarious deeds as wasting a Garda's time and taking two or three ropes...

Ag marbh

Deleted User wrote:

Read the other thread. There is a clear undercurrent of glee at capturing such notorious criminals as the Afghans. The suggestion that they hadn't actually done a whole lot wrong bar get a few Services postponed was dismissed, apparently they were right up with the worst criminal masterminds of our history and they did such nefarious deeds as wasting a Garda's time and taking two or three ropes...

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

HelterSkelter

Ag marbh wrote:

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

I think he's being sarcastic!

Dave!

HelterSkelter wrote:

It's obvious to the dogs on the street that these men are economic migrants. They came here for a better life. And fair fúcks to them. I would do exactly the same thing if I was from Afganistan, I'd pick the best country with the best economy and try to make a go of it there. If you're honest you'd probably do the same, wouldn't you?

I know I would! I intend to scoot on out of Ireland when I've gotten my education, probably to Oz! I'll do the research, work for a while, build up the money, head down to the Aussie embassy, fill in the forms, head home, and wait to hear about my application. If it turns out my application was refused, guess what I'd do? Try a different country.

HelterSkelter wrote:

I wouldn't, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Hah! Maybe you'd have the balls to see your hunger strike to the end, do us all a favour, eh? :rolleyes: I dunno how any intelligent person could have so little respect for the law... It's beyond my comprehension...

Ag marbh wrote:

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

For the love of god.......

layke

Surely if they were prosicuted they would get to stay in Ireland and charge the tax payer €200 per day to keep them in jail.

If they are going to get the boot, it would be less expensive just to stick to the original plan.

I think it's a better option to drop the charges and proceed with deportation.

AngryAnderson

therecklessone wrote:

Wow, contradicting yourself, one sentence after the other...

Wrong. I said it was bad news, I didn't say it was big news. Not too perceptive.

I don't think we should really analyse this issue rationally or in terms of the law.

Why not copy the format of the other thread and discuss this strictly in terms of victories for the lefty liberal pinko brigade? After all, last week wasn't so much about the Afghans or their plight but a defeat for the PC henchmen.

HelterSkelter

DaveMcG wrote:

I know I would! I intend to scoot on out of Ireland when I've gotten my education, probably to Oz! I'll do the research, work for a while, build up the money, head down to the Aussie embassy, fill in the forms, head home, and wait to hear about my application. If it turns out my application was refused, guess what I'd do? Try a different country.

That is a stupid comment. Erm hello McFly, they are not allowed to work while their application is being processed. I doubt very much they have the money to fly back to Afganistan while their application is processed, then fly back here again if they get the green light. BTW, who is paying for your "free education"???? The other taxpayers and me? Our money is obvoiusly being wasted, are there any courses in common sense? Might be better suited to you.

DaveMcG wrote:

Hah! Maybe you'd have the balls to see your hunger strike to the end, do us all a favour, eh? :rolleyes: I dunno how any intelligent person could have so little respect for the law... It's beyond my comprehension...

Maybe because you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

DadaKopf

Why not copy the format of the other thread and discuss this strictly in terms of victories for the lefty liberal pinko brigade? After all, last week wasn't so much about the Afghans or their plight but a defeat for the PC henchmen.

How about the state claming it as a victory for the Department of Justice and the Gardai and as a vindication of McDowell's use of force?

An end to the protest was brokered by the CoI, Integrating Ireland, Residents Against Racism and two human rights lawyers who convinced the Afghanis to choose to end the protest themselves.

No one's yet bothered to try answering my questions in the Humanities thread on this issue.

Ag marbh

DadaKopf wrote:

How about the state claming it as a victory for the Department of Justice and the Gardai and as a vindication of McDowell's use of force?

An end to the protest was brokered by the CoI, Integrating Ireland, Residents Against Racism and two human rights lawyers who convinced the Afghanis to choose to end the protest themselves.

No one's yet bothered to try answering my questions in the Humanities thread on this issue.

They're some cracking questions id love to see a regular on the other thread try answer.

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

They're some cracking questions id love to see a regular on the other thread try answer.

Be my guest

Ag marbh

Heinrich wrote:

Be my guest

I have enough suspicions as it is so I think someone that holds such a firm stance on your side of things would entertain the questions alot better than me.

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

I have enough suspicions as it is so I think someone that holds such a firm stance on your side of things would entertain the questions alot better than me.

Predictable answer!

Ag marbh

Heinrich wrote:

Predictable answer!

Predictable answer? Why dont you just answer the questions, you've been quick enough to answer any other questions surrounding the case.

HelterSkelter

Heinrich wrote:

Predictable answer!

Why don't you post your answers to your own questions? You seem to be suggesting a few things but I don't know what's true and what is not. Why don't you enlighten us?

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

Predictable answer? Why dont you just answer the questions, you've been quick enough to answer any other questions surrounding the case.

Another predictable answer. Don't do any more.;)

therecklessone

AngryAnderson wrote:

Wrong. I said it was bad news, I didn't say it was big news. Not too perceptive.

Bad news for the law, and Ireland, is only a storm in a tea cup? What's big news then, a storm in a tea pot?

Heinrich

HelterSkelter wrote:

Why don't you post your answers to your own questions? You seem to be suggesting a few things but I don't know what's true and what is not. Why don't you enlighten us?

What exactly are you trying to say? I am not suggesting anything.

Ag marbh

therecklessone wrote:

is only a storm in a tea cup? What's big news then, a storm in a tea pot?

haha that made me laugh!

HelterSkelter

Heinrich wrote:

What exactly are you trying to say? I am not suggesting anything.

Sorry, I'm getting you mixed up with DadaKopf.

Same question to you DadaKopf.

DadaKopf

I posed the questions more as points that we should be making to our illustrious Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

I mean, I can't answer why highly confidential information relating to one of the asylum seekers was leaked by the Dept of Justice or who made the decision to leak the information.

I also don't know why the adult hunger strikers weren't given any medical attention in Bridewell, nor any food - someone clearly made the decision not to.

They can answer these questions. As obviously concerned citizens in some way or other, I think we should all be thinking about how members of our own government and civil service have attacked our legal and democratic system.

Also ironic that after having abuse and constitutions hurled at him by Irish bigots and racists at an international conference, McDowell batted their protestations off as their democratic right of protest. I wonder why he failed to grant the same respect to the Afghani hunger strikers who were also expressing their right to protest. Of course he didn't allow them this human right, and, instead, he and the state engage in a campaign of state thuggery and villification.

juslookin

Aaargghhh Maaarrrgghhh

As you know, much of the discussion was about the implications of the lads actions. In that if this behavior was acceptable course of action for 41 people claiming to be Afghan, some of who were claiming to be under 18, most of whom were claiming to be escaping persecution/in fear of their lives/facing certain death etc then it could be deemed acceptable for not just the entire population of Afghanistan, Nigeria, Somalia and indeed the entire planet.

Have you had any luck with taking a couple of the lads in under your own roof and taking responsibility for them and the financial cost of keeping them ? You certainly talked the talk, but it would be nice to see you walk the walk ?

As the lads are high profile I think we should widen the remit to any two foreign nationals that you meet at the port or airport. Remember no questions asked, just take their story at face value and get on with it.

Re the questions, I'm wondering;

What is an acceptable timescale for Irelands population to reach double figures, then 15, 20, 25 and 30 million, which Ireland should be able to accomodate if not economically then at least in terms of land mass.

What is an acceptable timescale for Dublin's population to become majority non indiginous Irish ? 2055 or sooner ?

What is an acceptable timescale for Ireland's population to become majority non indigious Irish ? 2095 or sooner ?

Leaving aside such emotive reasons as the fight for independence and the troubles is there really any good or justifialbe reason for preserving the culture of the indiginous Irish ?

What personal sacrifices will you personally be making to accomodate the population growth, population density, economic conditions and cultural conditions.

How many Euros an hour will you be willing to take a wage drop to ?

Do you think there are any areas of Ireland in particular that should not be concreted over ?

Will you have any problems living under Sharia law and if so how do you intend to make your concerns known once you are ?

How will it be explained to the Irish people that the struggles of the last century have no value and that they should accept their fate ?

How will you balanance the economic requirements of managing the HIV/AIDS and TB explosion with the financial cost of managing it ?

Will you enjoy returning to the living conditions and standards of 1950s Ireland ?

HelterSkelter

juslookin, about all your questions, are you saying that you think all those things are going to happen?

Saintly

DadaKopf wrote:

How about the state claming it as a victory for the Department of Justice and the Gardai and as a vindication of McDowell's use of force?

An end to the protest was brokered by the CoI, Integrating Ireland, Residents Against Racism and two human rights lawyers who convinced the Afghanis to choose to end the protest themselves.

No one's yet bothered to try answering my questions in the Humanities thread on this issue.

I will get around to answering those questions, just too lazy right now! Okay, first off, congrats on raising some interesting points, I don't necessarily agree with every one but it's nice to see some rational discussion on this topic.

A few main points right now - I had a limited participation in this affair. I witnessed mediators from those groups tripping over themselves to get to these chaps, at unhelpful times. Nobody convinced these guys of anything. They made and ended their decision as a group. From my perspective, the refusal of the COI proposal expedited the group's decision to end the strike - it sank in that this was not going to be a successful tactic. I am delighted that the government held firm on this. This sends out a healthy message, no minor in this country could feasibly think that hunger striking is helpful choice in their application process - the most important thing, is that it ended safely without loss or harm to life.

On that note - medical attention was provided to all Afghans prior to transfer to the garda station. You have to remember that most of these guys were less dehydrated than your average binge drinker who lands in A&E after a 3 day bender. Had the docs had medical concerns, they would have transferred the strikers to hospital.

I agree that the media has taken the lazy option and for the most part has sensationalised, what basically is a petty criminal action. The outrage to it seems disproportionate. There are woeful inadequacies in our asylum process. People seem elated by a UN endorsal of our system - this being the same body that failed to recognise genocide (how obvious is that!) in Rwanda,Sudan. Failed to co-ordinate their own relief efforts in Kosovo etc. I certainly don't hold unshakeable faith in the findings of any UN body. Nobody should have to wait five years to await an outcome of an asylum application. It's ridiculous, cruel, costly, inefficient and typical of our creaking systems. It would have been refreshing to see a broader analysis of the issue of asylum seekers, as opposed to the Herald's screaming headlines...

Saintly.

DadaKopf

Yes, I should have said that the Afghans made their own decision to end the protest. This happened because these groups promised them thoroughgoing support and legal counsel. But they made their own decision. Basically, a positive alternative was offered.

Conversely, I wouldn't give any credit to the Department of Justice or the government, as the state acted entirely as one would expect it to. The HSE, however, were excellent.

I can't comment on the protesters' exact state at the time of detention in Bridewell, but they should, nevertheless, have gotten instant medical treatment.

AngryAnderson

Ag marbh wrote:

haha that made me laugh!

Yeah, hilarious. Utterly nonsensical and unintelligent but hilarious all the same. Oh how we all laugh.

Terry

they have shown that they are trouble makers. send them back to afghanistan.
i have pointed out on many occasions that i have absolutely no problem with immigrants in this country. the Irish are the last people in the world who can complain about immigration. (i think it was something like 100 million people worldwide who claimed Irish decendancy at the last count). but these 41 people are no better than the scumbag Irish you see on the street every day. we can't deport our own, but we can deport these people. they don't even deserve the privelege of the asylum process after the stunt they pulled.
bring on the decent afghani people. they are quite welcome here i my eyes.

astrofool

DadaKopf wrote:

Also ironic that after having abuse and constitutions hurled at him by Irish bigots and racists at an international conference, McDowell batted their protestations off as their democratic right of protest. I wonder why he failed to grant the same respect to the Afghani hunger strikers who were also expressing their right to protest. Of course he didn't allow them this human right, and, instead, he and the state engage in a campaign of state thuggery and villification.

Of course their right to protest came from being legally allowed to be in the country.

omahaid

God, I dunno why everyone's in a huff. The CoI enacted their rights in a civil and law abiding fashion. If their legal right (according to the law laid out by the people of Ireland) allows them to do so, I commend them. Kudos for acting in a manner that coincides with the democratic will of the people! Although, in hindsight, kudos does not apply to behaviour consistent with the obligations on someone in Ireland to obey the will of democratic decisions. Apparently this obligation does not apply outside Ireland (opportunity for someone who disagrees with the will of the people I suppose?).

coolhandluke

Loony lefties only abide by the law when it suits their agenda.