Foreigners in Limerick

Inge Binge

gaf1983 wrote:

Regarding the OP's complaints about company literature available in Polish but not other languages, I guess it boils down to supply and demand - due to the sheer amount of Polish people working for them, companies feel it is worthwhile to print the information in the language of so many of their employees. As only a handful of German/Dutch/French speakers would be employed the company probably feels it isn't worthwhile to pay for the translation costs for every single nationality in its employment.

I turn it to the far side: maybe it was not neccessary to provide french or german manuals because those people came with a reasonable english when they decided to work and to live in an english-speaking country? Reading a work manual can be much easier if it is in your native language...

IB

sioda

gaf1983 wrote:

Well ignorance of the law is no defence if charges were brought against such offenders, so the problem lies with the lack of enforcement of the laws. If you see people breaking the law like that and you have a problem with it you should report them to the guards.

Incidentally, oasis.gov.ie gives a pretty decent summary of the law relating to public drinking in Ireland:



I'm not sure what Limerick City Council's stance is on the issue, if anyone does know I'd like to hear. I know that in practice most local authorities have issued bye-laws against public drinking, but there are some areas of the country where it is still perfectly legal.

Regarding the OP's complaints about company literature available in Polish but not other languages, I guess it boils down to supply and demand - due to the sheer amount of Polish people working for them, companies feel it is worthwhile to print the information in the language of so many of their employees. As only a handful of German/Dutch/French speakers would be employed the company probably feels it isn't worthwhile to pay for the translation costs for every single nationality in its employment. I think it is just a numbers game - if the company employed loads of French speakers, they'd probably feel they should publish information in French. It might have something to do with lobbying by Polish speakers in the company for such material to be printed. While I agree with you that it doesn't seem fair that you, and thousands of other immigrants, had to come to Ireland and no such provisions were made, you've probably gained in the long run by being forced into a situation were you have to use your English, so this is bound to have helped with your integration.

Drinking on the street in Limerick is illegal as anyone at the screen on saturday will tell you

gaf1983

Inge Binge wrote:

i can and i do order geman books from germany. i never requested here any german book nor did i say the bookshops are providing only polish literature but not german! don't twist my words!!
IB

I think Billy was referring to company literature, as in Health & Safety/Training manuals.

Inge Binge

gaf1983 wrote:

I think Billy was referring to company literature, as in Health & Safety/Training manuals.

ok, my fault! i translate "literature" with books etc. not enough assimilated enough, huh?!

billy the squid

Inge Binge wrote:

billy, i'm not continuing this nit-picking with you. i think you are doing this on purpose... you know exactly what i mean!

Yeah i think I do, it is OK for you and your German friends to come here but not the Polish. I think you made that clear.

if i say they are taking over this country then i say there are to much. even if they stick together or not.

The German people are free to come here just as the poles are. The fact that they haven't is not the fault of the polish.

i can and i do order geman books from germany. i never requested here any german book nor did i say the bookshops are providing only polish literature but not german! don't twist my words!!

Have you tried requesting material in German from Irish government bodies. Perhaps the reason Literature from Irish government bodies is availible in polish is because those poles here requested it. If enough germans requested it, it would be in German.

regarding to the census and the "joke": you are common with the meaning word "irony" or even "subtle irony"?

I don't see why you are getting you knickers in a knot because I asked a serious question. The census was printed in over a Dozen languages, I simply asked was it printed in German. As was posted above, it was printed in French and Italian.

to say "of course it wasn't printed in German" is just playing the victim where it is not neccessary.

end of transmission.

IB

:S

Inge Binge

billy the squid wrote:

Yeah i think I do, it is OK for you and your German friends to come here but not the Polish. I think you made that clear.

Yes. Exactly! We are the better humans! We are worth living here not they! We want to rule this country! They are the second-class foreigners! Is it that what you want to hear???

I give up! You simply don't want to recognize that I'm talking about INTEGRATION, I-N-T-E-G-R-A-T-I-O-N!!! Not LIVING PERMISSON!!! The first step is learning the language of the country you are living in!

I really give up!!! I'm not going to discuss this with you further.

IB

radioman

I personally find the foreigners living and working here, especially the Polish, to be some of the nicest, friendliest people you could ever meet, and I think a lot of Irish people could learn a lot from them in terms of politeness and courtesy.

sioda

Inge Binge wrote:

I give up! You simply don't want to recognize that I'm talking about INTEGRATION, I-N-T-E-G-R-A-T-I-O-N!!! Not LIVING PERMISSON!!! The first step is learning the language of the country you are living in!
IB

IB gotta side with you again learning the language is essential. Even going on holidays you learn a few phrases thus i can ask for beer and grub in nearly 15 languages . But I am personally pissed royal at the amount of people in the front of house service industries shops through restaraunts that dont speak fluent english. I should not have to give an order or ask for something more than once.

Vegeta

Billy are you purposely trying to annoy the OP, you are rushing while reading her posts or something

She never once said the Poles shouldn't be here, she would just like them to integrate a little better. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You seem to think there is though

Paulj

I have to agree with Inge on the point about people working in shops and in the public. They should at least have an acceptable level of the local language (english). A simple "hello" does no harm either (although the Irish people working in shops often neglect to say hello also).

I also agree that integration is very important. We don't want to see polarised communities like Inge talked about with the Turks in Germany. However, maybe the reason that we see very little mixing between the Poles and other people is that a lot of them are only here short term. They come here, earn some money, then leave after 6 or 12 months and return to their families. Because there are so many of them here it is a lot easier for them to stay with the people they know. The Irish country benefits, as do the Poles. Can anyone comment if this is actually the case (that they are, for the most part here for short terms) ?

For foreigners here on a more permanent basis efforts should be made to help them 'integrate'. Not sure how this can be done though. I guess if people in general were a bit more open minded (both the Irish and the foreigners) then it would certainly help.

gaf1983

sioda wrote:

I should not have to give an order or ask for something more than once.

While I agree with you that it is vitally important that non-English native speakers is vital, especially for those involved in the hospitality sectory, I don't see the problem with customers having to repeat themselves to be understood. Making mistakes is an important part of language learning - it's annoying when they get your order wrong but it's not exactly the end of the world either. In my first part-time bar job I would often have trouble hearing customers - once giving someone a Peach Schnapps instead of a Pink Snack, or a Mars Bar instead of a Carlsberg, it's no big deal. But at least by being exposed to English speakers all day, people with poorer English dealing with customers are going to improve their English at work.

For whoever was asking earlier, the census was available in Arabic, Chinese, Czech, Estonian, French, Hungarian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russina, Slovak, Spanish, Turkish and Yoruba.

Inge Binge

Vegeta wrote:

Billy are you purposely trying to annoy the OP, you are rushing while reading her posts or something

She never once said the Poles shouldn't be here, she would just like them to integrate a little better. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You seem to think there is though

He is moderator. He is allowed to do that. Everyone else would get a warning and a ban...

Anyway - thanks to all others! I'm happy to see that I'm not alone with my views.

IB

Karmafaerie

I always miss the start of these interesting discussions!!!:D

Anyway, here's my two cents.

The Irish in general can't complain too loudly about "foreigners invading" our country!
Over the last century and a half, millions upon millions of us have left for foreign climes.
As for the remark that the Pole made to you Inge about coming to Limerick because of the proximity to the airport, that's only natural.
Look at the Irish communities in America, and the UK.
The traditional Irish areas, are where we got off the ferries! Boston and New York in America, and Liverpool in England.
The reason this issue has come up, is the simple fact that there are so many of these "New Europeans" coming at once.
Also, people tend to asume that anyone with an East European accent is Polish, when a lot of them are Latvian, Estonian etc.
I don't believe that they are overly isolating themselves.
for instance, the Chinese population in Limerick is much more isolated and unintegrated than the Eastern Europeans.

Where I agree is in the points referring to the ignoring of Irish laws.
There is a lot of damage been done to the Irish fish stocks, and the roads are not as safe as they were before(not that that's saying much!).
I do believe that these new members of society should make a more concerted effort to learn and obey Irish laws.
How many times have you turned on the news to hear about a murder only to loose interest when you find out it's a foreign national?
Maybe the Irish should try and help these people integrate, rather than just complaining all the time!

Inge Binge

Karmafaerie wrote:

The Irish in general can't complain too loudly about "foreigners invading" our country!
Over the last century and a half, millions upon millions of us have left for foreign climes.

I'm German - I'm aloud to complain here Nobody did so far... But you are absolutely right

Karmafaerie wrote:

As for the remark that the Pole made to you Inge about coming to Limerick because of the proximity to the airport, that's only natural.
Look at the Irish communities in America, and the UK.
The traditional Irish areas, are where we got off the ferries! Boston and New York in America, and Liverpool in England.

He was from Slovakia. It's a different country. But doesn't matter.
It's maybe just because I was looking actively for a job here when I made the decision to come to Ireland. Not expecting someone who is waiting for me to offer me bed and work... I did also actively an effort to speak english. I'm feeling even confident enough to argue in an english speaking forum.

Karmafaerie wrote:

The reason this issue has come up, is the simple fact that there are so many of these "New Europeans" coming at once.

Exactly. Looks like they overrun the country.

Karmafaerie wrote:

Also, people tend to asume that anyone with an East European accent is Polish, when a lot of them are Latvian, Estonian etc.

I've learnd russian in school - i can determine between the different languages And I didn't started that generalisation - I've pointed clearly out that I'm talking about the Polish community.

Karmafaerie wrote:

I don't believe that they are overly isolating themselves.
for instance, the Chinese population in Limerick is much more isolated and unintegrated than the Eastern Europeans.

That's true as well and I observed this earlier. I have an Japanese friend and she told me that it is because of the very different culture. And asian people can't drink much alcohol - they are deadly drunk after one pint because in their stomach is an enzym missing that handels alcohol

Karmafaerie wrote:

Where I agree is in the points referring to the ignoring of Irish laws.
There is a lot of damage been done to the Irish fish stocks, and the roads are not as safe as they were before(not that that's saying much!).

Uh uh. Don't blame the foreigners for accidents! Irish drivers... Tis is a special species Why? Well, you get a provisional license, try to make the test for the "real" license and if you fail this test (which is a proof of non existing ability to drive safely on the road) you can still drive with your L plate...

Karmafaerie wrote:

Maybe the Irish should try and help these people integrate, rather than just complaining all the time!

How? Random house visits? Setting up a "Invite a Polish once a week for dinner" initiative?

IB

Karmafaerie

Inge Binge wrote:

I'm German - I'm aloud to complain here Nobody did so far... But you are absolutely right

Maybe not personally, but us Irish as a nation know what kind of backlash can come when too many of us arrived in foreign countries.
Signs reading ""No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" were very common in English pubs right up to about 20 years ago.

Inge Binge wrote:

He was from Slovakia. It's a different country. But doesn't matter.
It's maybe just because I was looking actively for a job here when I made the decision to come to Ireland. Not expecting someone who is waiting for me to offer me bed and work... I did also actively an effort to speak english. I'm feeling even confident enough to argue in an english speaking forum.

When you were coming over, I'm guessing it was for different reasons.
A lot of these people came out of something akin to desperation. Maybe their family needed money, maybe they were saving to buy a house, or get married, but coming here was the only way to do this!
You, being the well educated, multilingual, dynamic Young German woman that I'm sure you are ( ), would have had a lot of opportunities back home as well. You came by choice, while they came because they had no other choice!

Inge Binge wrote:

Uh uh. Don't blame the foreigners for accidents! Irish drivers... Tis is a special species Why? Well, you get a provisional license, try to make the test for the "real" license and if you fail this test (which is a proof of non existing ability to drive safely on the road) you can still drive with your L plate...

I was just pointing out that as was stated earlier, a lot of the cars being brought over, are nowhere near road worthy, plus while there are a lot (One is too many!) of Irish who drink and drive, a lot of the Eastern Europeans do this constantly! every second time I'm going down a country road at night I seem to have near misses with some of them.



Personally I've gotten on really well with nearly all of the foreign nationals I've met.
Well that's not strictly true!
I was slapped by a drunk Polish girl who took offence to my CCCP t-shirt!!!:D

New_Departure06

I agree with the starter of this thread. PCness has taken over. Our reputation for generosity has been taken advantage of. We need to restrict access to Romanians and Bulgarians and am glad the govt are hinting strongly at this - and annoyed that Enda Kenny wants to open the borders to them. Isn't 200,000 enough for Enda! :rolleyes:

Inge Binge

Karmafaerie wrote:

I was slapped by a drunk Polish girl who took offence to my CCCP t-shirt!!!:D

Going strongly off-topic: i have one too... CCCP t-shirt. i suppose we are shopping in the same place (if you got it in limerick and so far i know only one place in limerick that sold this kind of stuff ).

IB

sioda

New_Departure06 wrote:

I agree with the starter of this thread. PCness has taken over. Our reputation for generosity has been taken advantage of. We need to restrict access to Romanians and Bulgarians and am glad the govt are hinting strongly at this - and annoyed that Enda Kenny wants to open the borders to them. Isn't 200,000 enough for Enda! :rolleyes:

Ireland does not need any more Romanians we have got enough already. Gotta agree the PC nature of Ireland is enough to make you sick we cannot afford to be the drop off point for every wandering immigrant who feels like a better life at the expense of ordinary decent tax payers.

Crea

sioda wrote:

Ireland does not need any more Romanians we have got enough already. Gotta agree the PC nature of Ireland is enough to make you sick we cannot afford to be the drop off point for every wandering immigrant who feels like a better life at the expense of ordinary decent tax payers.

Most of these immigrants are the "ordinary decent taxpayers" that you speak of. They are here doing the work that the Irish people will not deign to do. I worked in a company where alot of the assembly line workers are foreign because the company find it so difficult to get Irish to do it. The same goes for my cousin who runs a pub. He is desperately trying to get Irish people to work in the bar because he is aware that the tourists want to see that but he is finding it very difficult, especially to get the Irish to work the more anti-social hours. BTW a days basic wage in Ireland is equivilant to a weeks wage in Poland - a bit of a no brainer as to why so many come here.
If these people are happy to come and do the work that the Irish are unwilling to do then they are more than welcome if you ask me.
I agree that if they are working with the pubic then they should have good fluency in English but it's up to the employers to ensure this.
I worked in Japan where most of the English speaking community socialised together and only really socialised with Japanese who were fairly fluent in English. Where I worked most people were there 1-2 years and only bothered to learn the most basic Japanese. The last thing you want to do is head out for a pint and struggle to speak in foreign language - it hardly makes for a relaxing night out, unless of course you're very committed to learn the language. This is probably the case for the Polish but it would be hypocritical of the Irish to critisise as we're just as bad when we go abroad in large groups.

billy the squid

agree with the starter of this thread. PCness has taken over. Our reputation for generosity has been taken advantage of. We need to restrict access to Romanians and Bulgarians and am glad the govt are hinting strongly at this - and annoyed that Enda Kenny wants to open the borders to them. Isn't 200,000 enough for Enda!

Why single out Romanians and Bulgarians for restrictions, there are 25 other countries in the EU. Why not restrict the Brittish or the French, or dare i say it, the Germans. I am just curious why you should single one or two member states out. There is nothing stopping 200,000 Germans coming to Ireland. (Nothing stopped 200,000 Germans going to Poland in the 1930s)

As for the CCCP thing, considering it represents the name of a country which occupied poland it would be like walking into a wolfetones concert with a union Jack tee-shirt.

1huge1

excuse me if this has been said already but i am a late comer to this conversation
i believe the reason there a things like manuals in polish and not in german french etc is because simply there a lot more polish here than there are german or whatever

i have been to germany many times and have family out there (north of dortmund) and i have to agree with you that there seems to be a lot of tension between the turkish and the germans and also the russians wernt the most liked either

although the turkish doner kebabs are lovely arnt they lol

Inge Binge

there it goes: the buzz word for Germans: WORLD WAR II nice try!

karmafaerie, would you if you are, lets say living in Switzerland, beat up a british person living in Switzerland who is wearing an union jack shirt because they ruled your country for some centuries?

anyway...

had the discussion last night with a few friends (irish and spanish) and got a good point which is true: if the polish get everything offered in polish (like as i said earlier for instance the AIB internet page) it's only human to take this opportunity. why to bother to read the english page if they can have it in their native language. i would do probably the same with the german offers i'm admitting this! maybe there are some others to blame as well - those who don't make an effort to integrate them in offering things in their native language.

IB

billy the squid

It still doesn't answer my question, why you have a problem with the polish people. Especially when they have just as much right to be here as you do as a fellow EU citizen.

Also There is still the matter of your glaring generalisation of the Romanian peoples. They haven't even entered the EU yet and you are calling for restrictions.

sioda

Romanians have a very bad reputation due to the amount of them that came to ireland in the mid ninties and spent the next ten years begging on the main streets. Again i realise this is a minority but the fact was one minute they were selling the big issue to mask the begging next minute down to St Michaels church and sit into a big merc.

I know it is not these peoples fault but again I lay the blame squarly on the government any of them since FF and FG are basically the same thing.

billy the squid

Romanians have a very bad reputation due to the amount of them that came to ireland in the mid ninties and spent the next ten years begging on the main streets. Again i realise this is a minority but the fact was one minute they were selling the big issue to mask the begging next minute down to St Michaels church and sit into a big merc.

I know it is not these peoples fault but again I lay the blame squarly on the government any of them since FF and FG are basically the same thing.

But is this a reason to restrict the rest of the country who wish to come here to find work? hardly.

Inge Binge

1huge1 wrote:

i believe the reason there a things like manuals in polish and not in german french etc is because simply there a lot more polish here than there are german or whatever

thats true as well! but if they (whoever) provide it in polish then I'd like to have it in my native language as well. I just want to be treated equally as a foreigner here.

1huge1 wrote:

i have been to germany many times and have family out there (north of dortmund) and i have to agree with you that there seems to be a lot of tension between the turkish and the germans and also the russians wernt the most liked either

This with the Russians is a different story. They are between rock and stone. To make it simple: we agreed with the former Soviet Union to let the Russians with german descent to get german citicenship as a "price" (wrong word, i know but i don't have a better one at the moment) for the German Unification. Those people were treated in Soviet Union/Russia as germans (as a stigma) and in Germany they are for german people Russians. Among those - and this is common sense in Germany - are some who claim to be german just because they had a german shepard dog... The German-Russians are living more or less in ghettos and therefore they don't speak German. It's kinda the same situatioin: going to a country (but here especially claiming citizen of this coutry by birth) but not even able to speak the language. With the economical misery in Russia i can understand that they flee out of their country to a better life. But without speaking the language you are lost...

1huge1 wrote:

although the turkish doner kebabs are lovely arnt they lol

he's talking about real doener kebabs. don't even try to compare with the sh*t they sell in abrakebabra. although there is a good doener shop in ellen street. but a bit pricey: about 5EURO for a doener whereas in germany i pay 1.50 guess what i'm doing next week back at home? right: two days doener feast!

IB

billy the squid

karmafaerie, would you if you are, lets say living in Switzerland, beat up a british person living in Switzerland who is wearing an union jack shirt because they ruled your country for some centuries?

I am not aware that the brittish occupied Switzerland in the same way the USSR did with poland, or the Brittish did with Ireland.

I could be wrong though.

Inge Binge

the same picture of Romanians in Germany: some of them were brought by the family honcho to the city centre for begging and then getting picked up with the big mercedes in the evening. have a look here in Cruises Street: if you see romanian women with little children begging watch out for the honcho watching them... or an extremely bored girl playing some desultorely notes on a harmonica you can be sure daddy is not far controling her.

[ironic]If they are not a begging and stealing part of their travelling society they do drug-trafficking or are panderers [/ironic]

five prejudices in one sentence! no - I don't want to generalize. this are just the prejudices outlined. don't say we germans dont have humour!

IB

sioda

No its not but Ireland seems to becoming the drop off point for every tom dick and Harry immigrant who wants to work or not. at the end of the day I think that Irish people need to be made take up the jobs. I mean the amount of third generation Dole hogs not just in this city but throughout the country is just unbelievable.

no it galls me to have to pay to educate new foriegn workers but is pisses me off royal to pay for family and family or able bodied freeloaders who wont take up the basic wage jobs. Thus I hark back to my original point this is the governments fault and dole should be cut or stopped for people who equate looking for work to sitting in their local running in and out to the bookies looking for a decent job

Sorry bit of a rant there but hey its my opinion

sioda

Inge Binge wrote:

the same picture of Romanians in Germany: some of them were brought by the family honcho to the city centre for begging and then getting picked up with the big mercedes in the evening. have a look here in Cruises Street: if you see romanian women with little children begging watch out for the honcho watching them... or an extremely bored girl playing some desultorely notes on a harmonica you can be sure daddy is not far controling her.

[ironic]If they are not a begging and stealing part of their travelling society they do drug-trafficking or are panderers [/ironic]

five prejudices in one sentence! no - I don't want to generalize. this are just the prejudices outlined. don't say we germans dont have humour!

IB

IB i think you have stumbled on the old faithful thing we all do is generalise.
I mean like saying all travellers are thieving coniving people or all french smell like garlic or all americans are thick. Everyone is guilty of generalisation at one point or another but what most people forget is to cause generalisation in the first place more than one or two instances of that generalisation has to take place.

Gotta give it to you though funniest post i've read in days