Gudjohnsen & Duff for Van Nistelrooy + cash

besty

I just heard this reported on the radio. I cannot find a link for the story though. What would Chelsea and United fans think about this?

Personally, as a United fan It would be wrenching to see Ruud leave, especially to go to Chelsea but this deal could convince me! Depends on how much cash is involved though.

el rabitos

those 2 players in particular PLUS cash for 29 year old rvn....a joke

KdjaCL

el rabitos wrote:

those 2 players in particular PLUS cash for 29 year old rvn....a joke

Oh whos behalf?



kdjac

besty

No, United would be giving cash plus Ruud.

el rabitos

i thought u meant chelsea giving the cash. but either way, sacrificing 2 players still a fair bit younger than ruud, and signing kalou and shevy plus drogba still there, i dont see the sence in it at all

besty

Kalou plays on both wings too so getting rid of a forward in Eidur and a winger in Duff wouldn't seem that crazy.

PHB

Should prob try keep this junk transfer rumours in one thread, otherwise we'd have 16 threads a day about where Van is going.

I just heard this reported on the radio. I cannot find a link for the story though. What would Chelsea and United fans think about this?

Somebody, anywhere, tell me first off, why we would sell Ruud to Chelsea?
Secondly, why they'd want him after getting Shevcenko
Third, why United would waste their biggest transfer piece on getting a left winger and a withdrawn forward who plays in the same position as Rooney?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see Duff and Gudjohnson at United, but it's nowhere near a top priority.

Also, it's a bull****e story

besty

PHB wrote:

Should prob try keep this junk transfer rumours in one thread, otherwise we'd have 16 threads a day about where Van is going.



Somebody, anywhere, tell me first off, why we would sell Ruud to Chelsea?
Secondly, why they'd want him after getting Shevcenko
Third, why United would waste their biggest transfer piece on getting a left winger and a withdrawn forward who plays in the same position as Rooney?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see Duff and Gudjohnson at United, but it's nowhere near a top priority.

Also, it's a bull****e story

It was reported in one of the Sunday papers (Oisín Langan on Newstalk was talking about it). Don't you think that if Fergie has agreed to move Ruud on though, that it wouldn't be a half bad deal to bring the two players to United instead. Also, Ruud wouldn't be as effective at Chelsea as he wouldn't play as much as he (used to) at United pre-Saha on form.

Gudjonhsen does play a similar role to Rooney but also played midfield over the past 2 seasons which would add another dimension to our midfield. As for Duff, we could do with another top class option on the wing.

jesus_thats_gre

I cannot see what United fans would have a problem swapping Ruud for Duff and Gudjonsen.. Giggs is getting on and Duff would be the perfect replacement for him and a considerably better option than Richardson.

Gudjonsen consistently performs well also and provide alot of depth to the United squad. He would also be a decent replacement for Scholes who lets face it, is coming to the end of his career also..

PHB

I have no problem with Duff or Gudjohnson coming, but they are nowhere near priorities, and Gudjohnson is not a replacement for Scholes anymore than Rooney is a replacement for Scholes.

My problem is with Roud going the other way.

You see, I think Ruud is the best goal poacher in the world.

If he went to Chelsea, I totally expect him to score 30 goals in the premiership season.

Basically, if Ruud went to Chelsea, it woudln't matter who we sign, because Chelsea would win the premiership no matter what.

Fergie isn't a retard, and he knows this. This is a nothing story.

Necronomicon

I'd have mixed feelings on this. While Duff and Gudjohnson are top class players who I'd love to see at United, I don't think they'd fit our priority. I think if United are getting rid of Van Nistelrooy, Fergie has to use the transfer to sort out the gaping hole in midfield.
Plus, I'd hate to see Ruud in a Chelsea shirt.

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

Should prob try keep this junk transfer rumours in one thread, otherwise we'd have 16 threads a day about where Van is going.

Most here would be more interested in where Duff is going than some dutch lad.

kdjac

zAbbo

150 goals in 200 starts for ManU. I'm not a fan, but when you buy Ruud, you're buying goals.

PHB

Indeed, because this story definally emerged because people buy papers when they hear Duff could be moving.

Duff is irrelevent to this story, it's just an excuse for them to print a story about Van Nist.

besty

PHB wrote:

Duff is irrelevent to this story, it's just an excuse for them to print a story about Van Nist.

I disagree. Fergie is an admirer of Duff. Duff is not getting on at Chelsea. Ruud has had a falling out at United. Fergie historically gets rid of players which "have a negative affect on team morale." United want another winger. Therefore it makes sense that the 2 players are linked with this move IMO.

homerjay2005

this story is being carried in the star today,but i think that is complete trash. there s no way that united would sell a top striker to chelsea. in the paper, it stated that fergie would consider a deal but he inquired about gudjohnson OR duff as part of the deal. dont think we need gudjohnson but duff would be a big asset, but id rather keep ruud and do without duff than see him go to chelsea.

dcarroll

these swap deals that are apparently going tho happen all soung great, but how often do we actually see a swap deal happen

besty

dcarroll wrote:

these swap deals that are apparently going tho happen all soung great, but how often do we actually see a swap deal happen

Fair point.

iregk

Fergie has been a very keen admirer of both players for quite some time and has in the past tried to purchanse both players. Duff is the perfect replacement for Giggs and Gudjohnsen is great and linking attack and midfield.

On the other side of the deal why would Fergie sell Ruud to anyone? Because he doesn't think he has it any more. So why would it be strange to sell a striker who you believe to be over the hill and past his best to your rival? Lets not bring up the argument that the only reason he is being sold is his attitude. Sheringham couldn't stand Yorke or Cole, they never spoke, Ruud has always been as a$$ as has Keane and Kanchelskis before him. Fergie has a history of keeping bad apples if they are playing well!!!

RE*AC*TOR

If I was a united fan, I'd bite Chelsea's hand off (especially as Ruud appears to getting the bum's rush anyway).

Obviously the one major negative is that it can only strenghten Chelsea. The one thing they have lacked is a proven goal-poacher.

But Duff is a great player, he can beat a few players and get in a cross. He can score. I'd LOVE to see him at Liverpool. I think his "dip" in form this season has been 100% due to Mourinho.

I'm not as big a fan of Gudjohnsen. Having said that his record speaks for itself, so there's not much more I can say on that.

Seeing as how Fergie was going to sell Ruud for between 10 and 12 million, I think UTD fans should be happy with a straight swap for Duff, or even better if they can get a few quid + Duff.

PHB

Ruud was sold because of his alleged loss in mobility, which brings the team down as a whole, as you might think if you saw United's 8 run winning streak this year.

Reactor, what's the point in having Duff on the wing and Gudjohnson on the bench(as he plays in the same position as Rooney, who never ever gets subbed off, no matter how bad he's playing), if Chelsea now have a proven premiership goal scorer, who is, with the services of Lampard, Ballack, Robben, Cole going to get 30 premiership goals a season and guarentee them the title.
If that doesn't tickle your fancy, Fergie would never do it, because theres a chance he might be proven wrong.

It's not about the absolute gains, it's about the relative gains.

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Ruud was sold because of his alleged loss in mobility, which brings the team down as a whole, as you might think if you saw United's 8 run winning streak this year.

Er, did I miss some major transfer news?

RE*AC*TOR

PHB wrote:

Reactor, what's the point in having Duff on the wing and Gudjohnson on the bench(as he plays in the same position as Rooney, who never ever gets subbed off, no matter how bad he's playing),

I agree, i think getting Duff would suit UTD. I wouldn't bother with Gudjohnsen.

I think we are in agreement.

PHB wrote:

if Chelsea now have a proven premiership goal scorer, who is, with the services of Lampard, Ballack, Robben, Cole going to get 30 premiership goals a season and guarentee them the title.

That was the downside I pointed out. Would it be better if they bought Shevchenko and UTD didn't get Duff in a deal?

PHB wrote:

If that doesn't tickle your fancy, Fergie would never do it, because theres a chance he might be proven wrong.

It's not about the absolute gains, it's about the relative gains.

I think Fergie's decision to offload Ruud has been questionable overall. If it revolves around the supposed issue with Ronaldo, then Fergie should have offloaded Ronaldo. Who seems to be looking for a move now anyway.

He's gone down this road with Van Nistelroy - its resulting in two things - he won't get a smuch money as he could have for ruud, because he has said he wants to sell him.

Second thing is that Fergie now needs to buy another striker.

Still if Ronaldo is heading to Spain, UTD could do worse than to get Duff. Who I think has a better work ethic and a better attitude. Chelsea are gonna splurge on a striker either way. And RvN is leaving UTD either way. So its 6 of one.....

PHB

Would it be better if they bought Shevchenko and UTD didn't get Duff in a deal?

First off, you're totally right, Fergie has ****ed this up.

Yes, just a little bit. Ruud is a definate, Shev is just like any other foriegn player, adjusting to a new game, and there is a chance he won't adjust to it.

Duff isn't massivly needed at United, Giggs still has one more year in him, and Park and him can do enough down the left.

Everybody in the entire world knows that United's problem is in midfield, more most importantly, in central midfield.

Ruud is our greatest barginning chip. He may only go for 8.4 million in incash, (which is nuts), but as aplayer in a makeweight deal with a top quality CM, he is priceless.
If this was Ruud to Chelsea with Duff and Essien in there, then I'd probably jump at the chance, accept Chelsea having the title for another year, and then we'd challenge the next year, but it's not, its a winger and a striker, and United are no closer to solving the problem of CM.

Second thing is that Fergie now needs to buy another striker.

Not necessarily.
Saha is going to bag maybe 15 goals next season if he plays reguarly.
Rooney is just going to get better, and will probably get 20 next season.
Rossi can chip in with about 8-10(he got 4 this year in 6 preformances, albeit against weaker teams)
Ole is returning.
Smith is returning, and hey, he's not a half bad striker.

Up front will not be a problem for United next season, even without the loss of Ruud. We won't be at the same level, but as a team United tended to play better without Ruud in it. Saha and Rooney work well, and with Rossi emerging, it's about time United did what they do best, trust the youth.

p.s.
As for Ronaldo leaving, if he does, it'll be for 20-30 million as the only clubs he will go to are Barca and Real, and United don't want to sell him.
If that happens, he can be replaced with another winger, with that extra 20-30 million we'd have.

Necronomicon

PHB wrote:

Ruud is our greatest barginning chip. He may only go for 8.4 million in incash, (which is nuts), but as aplayer in a makeweight deal with a top quality CM, he is priceless.
If this was Ruud to Chelsea with Duff and Essien in there, then I'd probably jump at the chance, accept Chelsea having the title for another year, and then we'd challenge the next year, but it's not, its a winger and a striker, and United are no closer to solving the problem of CM.

Agreed with this, it's what I was trying to get at earlier. United may not get into the double figures for Ruud, but if he is going then he is a great way to get a top class midfielder, because so many teams around the world would still love to have him. I don't think we should leave our best barginning chip go for two players (even if they are good) that aren't the top priority.
And the other blindingly obvious downside that's been pointed out already, giving Chelsea more strength in probably the only position they need strengthening.

RE*AC*TOR

Well, to be honest I'd take Duff over Giggs and Park 7 days a week and twice on tuesday. I know UTD's problem is central midfield, but they have compensated by having a solid defense and a great forward two or three.

I don't think Saha is up to it, certainly no where near RvN standards. Rossi is still unproven. I think your faith in these players is a little naive (i mean that in the best possible way). I think Ole is past it and Smith is a bit of a joke. However, if the midfield is brought up to the Liverpool/Chelsea level - then you'd get away with that strikeforce.

Now take RvN and possibly Ronaldo out of the equation. That leaves a solid defense, a shakey midfield, and a forward line (albeit better than liverpool's) that is not looking super.

So you don't take Duff from Chelsea. Sell RvN to someone for £10m and Ronaldo for £20m.

Now UTD have the money to spend. But they are probably going to have to spend it abroad. Then they end up running the risk of a repeat of the Veron situation.

I'm not sure if I'm making my point clearly. But losing RvN and to a lesser extent Ronaldo is going to adversely affect the attacking prowess. If you bring up the midfield to a very strong level then the current strikers (if fit) will be fine. But, that's the gamble, in a world cup year, buying one or two top class centre midfielders is going to be extremely difficult.

So UTD could be left in a worse situation than last year.

Anyway, we shall see.

PHB

Yep, I understand ya perfectly, but I don't think my striker fate is misplaced.

Rooney scored 16 goals in the premiership this season, he is getting better every year, I think it's not at all unrealistic to expect him to score 20 goals next season.

Saha scored 7 premiership goals in 12 starts. That works out to roughly 21 goals a season :P Hey, I know it's not an exact science, but he has proven he can do it in the past with Fulham, which is why we paid 12.8 million(I think) for him.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect him to get about 15 goals a season, it would be double his goal tally with 3.5 times the amount of games played.

Rossi, I just have incredible fate in. He is going to be up there with Rooney and Ronaldo, see signature

Ole, I am not as sure about, my initial hopes were dashed a bit with his broken nose or arm or whatever it was. But he is a man who gets goals, and he has started to score again in the reserves. He is after all a super sub, and can come on and get those important goals when ya need them, something united have been missing.

Smith, I don't think is a joke. He isn't a United quality striker, no doubt about it, but he still is a half decent striker. He has scored some fairly slick goals, but most of all, he's a defenders nightmare. He could chip in with about 5 goals next season.

United strike force will not be as good, but I think it can compensate.

If Ronaldo leaves, he can be replaced with Ribery, or Joaoquin or whoever, because we'll have the cash to meet the clubs demands, as we'll have just sold Ronaldo. So that's not a huge issue in my books. As i'm sure you've noted, he isn't exactly the most direct of players, and a more direct player would probably be better for United. That said, I think he has incredible potential so i'd be saddened to see him leave, but if he does, he can be replaced in the short term with another winger, who might not get to the max levels that ronaldo can get to, but would be at a higher level than he is currently.

So then we spend our transfer kitty of around 30 million + ruud money on a new midfield.

Sure we could get another Veron, but that's football, and it's a risk no matter what happens. If we don't have a decent CM, Duff won't be able to do **** either.

I think the choices are:

Solid Defense and GK/Re-invigorated midfield/Slightly weakened strikeforce

Solid Defense and GK/Less invigorated midfield/slightly less weakened strikeforce

I think Ruud's best service that he can do to United is to get a top class CM in his place. Duff and Gudjohnson aren't that.

The Muppet

Cant se Ruud play Chelsea's style of game, unless they are going to change that. On the other hand Murinho will more than likely have the CL as his priority this season and Ruud's scoring record in that comp is second to none.

All things considered I don't believe there is any truth in the story, it would be a huge gamble for Fergie to sell him to Chelsea, if he won them the CL United fans would be pretty miffed to say the least, I dont think Fergie could survive as United Mnager in such a scenario.

jimmyboy

I would find it hard to see Ruud go to Chelsea, but If Chelsea get Shevchenko I would not be surprised to see Ruud go to AC Milan.

PHB

He was linked to Milan for a fee of 8.4 million this week.

If Milan pulled that off, it'd be incredible transfer work, 35 million + Gallas for Shev, replaced for 8.5 million by Ruud, with a new gain of 27.5 million, with little loss to the team.
Unreal general managment

LegacyUser

I don't ****ing want Gudjohnsen or Duff. Not good enough. And most certainly not the priorities of Man Utd.

eirebhoy

cheesedude wrote:

I don't ****ing want Gudjohnsen or Duff. Not good enough. And most certainly not the priorities of Man Utd.

Not good enough.:D You're guaranteed almost a goal or assist a game from Duff. He was the best left winger in the world at one point.

OTliddy

Van Nistelrooy only scored prolifically this season because he had Rooney supporting him

el rabitos

I don't ****ing want Gudjohnsen or Duff. Not good enough. And most certainly not the priorities of Man Utd.

they've both won more premierships and got futher in the champions league than man utd have in the past few years, just who is good enough?

gudjohnsen would add great dept and give alot of options to any squad.

dcarroll

People seem to be forgetting how injury prone saha seems to be, if he gets injured and ruud is sold without being replaced utd could be left with only rooney and rossi upfront with no back up/subs

PHB

Yep, because it appears that Ole and Smith has disappeared into oblivion.

eyerer

how old is ole? (no idea how to spell his surname so we're on a first name basis)

iregk

PHB wrote:

Yep, because it appears that Ole and Smith has disappeared into oblivion.

Do me a favour and drop the rose tinted glasses for a second and come to some realisation. Smith is dire plain and simple. He is not now nor will he ever be a great striker, not even a good one. Ole is past it and will never again be the super sub he once was. Move on.

RE*AC*TOR

OTliddy wrote:

Van Nistelrooy only scored prolifically this season because he had Rooney supporting him

why did he score prolifically all the the other seasons?

dirkey_wynne

iregk wrote:

Do me a favour and drop the rose tinted glasses for a second and come to some realisation. Smith is dire plain and simple. He is not now nor will he ever be a great striker, not even a good one. Ole is past it and will never again be the super sub he once was. Move on.

I totally disagree with the part about Smith here. He is not dire. He's about average. He'd have scored easily as many goals in that Chelsea side this year as Drogba. People seem to forget that he started quite well at Utd, when we pretty much only had him to play up front he was knocking in goals. He's definitely good enough to be a squad player up front for Utd.

Ok, maybe he wouldn't have scored exactly as many as Drogba, lost the run of myself there! But to say he's dire is OTT. Dire = David Bellion.

dirkey_wynne

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

why did he score prolifically all the the other seasons?

Exactly!