Theft of Firearms

civdef

One of the biggest worries I have as a firearms owner is that I will be targetted by thieves looking to steal legally held firearms. There have been many instances in recent years of gangs specifically looking for firearms through this source.

In response to the risk of theft, firearms licence holders are being required to upgrade their security precautions, and I've no particular problem with that, but I'd like to think the criminal justice system will do its bit too.

I read in the paper today that men have been arrested following a search of a permises with located some stolen handguns. What charges/sentences will they face for this offence?

There have been cases in recent years where people have got off very lightly for possessing stolen firearms. I'm thinking of one case in particular where a fella claimed the sawn off stolen shotgun he had in his caravan was for "shooting stoats", and he got a suspended sentence!

Along with the many new restrictions being placed on legal firearms holders, have any new sanctions been brought in for stealing firearms, or possessing stolen firearms in the CJB (I'm hoping someone else has checked - it's a tough document to wade through).

jaycee

Absolutely agree :..!!!

I'd like to think the criminal justice system will do its bit too.

I truly hope B'tards like that get the book thrown at them ... and get to spend
a long long time in a very small space.

newby.204

As a new firearm owner, i have a safe etc, but o worry about someone coming into my home to take my gun, worse what happens if he/she is on the way out of my home and a family member is in their way.

They deserve a long time in a small space alright and worse!!!

Trojan911

civdef wrote:

One of the biggest worries I have as a firearms owner is that I will be targetted by thieves looking to steal legally held firearms. There have been many instances in recent years of gangs specifically looking for firearms through this source.

That is a concern for me too. I have a firearms cabinet bolted to a solid brick wall, installed a cctv system and I'm currently looking at various wireless alarm systems with a view to the alarm being monitored. That's the best I can offer for the moment, which I also think is above and beyond what is required.


TJ911...

sidneyreilly

civdef wrote:

I read in the paper today that men have been arrested following a search of a permises with located some stolen handguns. What charges/sentences will they face for this offence?QUOTE]

HI civ, which paper was it in? dont suppose you could put the article up?

Jacobo

Trojan911 wrote:

That's the best I can offer for the moment, which I also think is above and beyond what is required.

What's usually required? A normal safe? A normal safe with certain security measures? A gun-certified safe?

In Spain a gun-certified safe is required (not alarms or CCTV), although you are not required to store the whole gun inside; just its essential parts.

jaycee

which paper was it in?

Todays "Indo"

Trojan911

Jacobo wrote:

What's usually required? A normal safe? A normal safe with certain security measures? A gun-certified safe?

In Spain a gun-certified safe is required (not alarms or CCTV), although you are not required to store the whole gun inside; just its essential parts.

For your, say shotgun & .22 rifle, just your basic house security nothing else as far as I am aware (open to correction). However I beleive there are more stringent rules for hundgun owners. There are some handgun owners in this forum, they may be able to shed more light for you..


TJ911...

spideog7

Originally Posted by civdef
I'm thinking of one case in particular where a fella claimed the sawn off stolen shotgun he had in his caravan was for "shooting stoats", and he got a suspended sentence

Are stoats not a protected species ????

Originally Posted by Jacobo
What's usually required? A normal safe? A normal safe with certain security measures? A gun-certified safe?

I was actually wondering the same thing, are there regulations on the safes and do they have to be certified ?? or could you make up a steel cabinet bolted to the wall and padlocked (or deadbolted even) ??
Just out of interest because the strength of many gun cabinets I see aren't all that impressive (for the price)

maglite

no they have to be certified (we have no means to do this it is an eu thing)the 1 i have is a 2mm steel box fold with 2 locks i could ave made 1 with 3/4" steel plate double stined but no!!!!!

Rovi

sidneyreilly wrote:

HI civ, which paper was it in? dont suppose you could put the article up?

Here's the original article (from unison.ie, May 29, 2006)-

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Arial]'Mafioso' kidnap racket is smashed[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]Seven arrested after huge garda dragnet to find gang

GARDAI have smashed a Mafia-style kidnap and extortion racket being carried out by a Lithuanian gang across the country.
Seven Lithuanians were in custody last night after a week-long garda operation which led to the recovery of firearms, stolen cars and other property.
At least five people were kidnapped by the gang, who then forced members of their families to hand over cash for their release and also made off with their vehicles.
Gardai believe the number of extortions carried out by the gang may be even greater, as some of the incidents have not been reported because of fear.
All the victims so far were Lithuanians living in this country. So far detectives have established that the gang struck in Kilkenny, Carlow, Dublin, Mullingar and Monaghan.
The gang preyed on people advertising their cars for sale on a genuine website on the internet.
The criminals kept a close watch on the website and then contacted a likely victim and asked to see the car.
Armed with handguns, the thugs kidnapped the car owner. They held him captive until a cash ransom was paid and, as well as taking the car, they sometimes stole keys to their homes and took other property.
One victim, who was held captive in Mullingar last week, was not released until a ransom of €5,000 was handed over.
This incident resulted in a massive garda operation, spearheaded by Assistant Commissioner Dermot Jennings, and involved detectives from Mullingar, Kilkenny and Clondalkin in west Dublin, backed up by members of the national bureau of criminal investigation.
It culminated in a garda swoop on a house in Rathcoole in south Dublin at the weekend and the arrest of seven suspects, all Lithuanians living here for some time.
The seven were being held for questioning last night at Clondalkin garda station under section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act. A decision on whether to release or charge them will be taken today.
Tom Brady and Breda Heffernan
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]

...and here's today's follow up ([/FONT]from unison.ie, May 30, 2006)-

Seven Lithuanians to appear in court on organised crime charges
15:27 Tuesday May 30th 2006

Seven people have appeared in court in Dublin charged in connection with a series of offences linked to organised crime. The six men and a woman, all from Lithuania, have been remanded in custody to appear in court again next week.

The seven, ranging in age from 26 to 45 were all arrested at their rented six-bedroom mansion in Saggart, Co. Dublin on Saturday.

Each are charged with a range of offences, including, stealing cars, handling stolen goods and assaulting Gardai

Large amounts of cash were also found in follow-up searches.

The group includes a husband and wife.

There was no application for bail and the Judge granted leave to apply for legal aid pending means tests.

The six men are remanded in custody to appear at Clover Hill Court and the woman at Kilmainham District Court next Tuesday

I note with some dismay the absence of any mention of firearms charges
Perhaps they'll be included at the next court appearance?

Rovi

spideog7 wrote:

I was actually wondering the same thing, are there regulations on the safes and do they have to be certified ?? or could you make up a steel cabinet bolted to the wall and padlocked (or deadbolted even) ??
Just out of interest because the strength of many gun cabinets I see aren't all that impressive (for the price)

Gun cabinets are supposed to be certified (or conform) to BS 7558:1992.

Riggser

I always get the impression that people holding firearms in a rural area are seen as a safer arrangement to the Gardai than people living in an urban/built up area. Obviously less travel for the low life thief.

But which arrangement would have the better response time from the Gardai if things were to go wrong? These days it's easier to get an illegal firearm on the next shipment of narcotics than break into someones house and threaten the occupants.

Terrier

Rovi wrote:

Here's the original article (from unison.ie, May 29, 2006)-
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]

...and here's today's follow up ([/FONT]from unison.ie, May 30, 2006)-

I note with some dismay the absence of any mention of firearms charges
Perhaps they'll be included at the next court appearance?

Irish Independent Today
SEVEN Lithuanians yest appeared in court charged with a series of offences linked to organised crime.

The six men and one woman - aged from 25 to 45 - were arrested on Saturday afternoon at their six-bedroom rented home at Crockaunadreenagh House, Crockaunadreenagh, Rathcoole, Co Dublin. The charges included the unauthorised use of a motor vehicle, the unauthorised taking of a motor vehicle, theft, handling stolen property and assault.

The defendants who appeared at Kilmainham District Court were: Algirdas Kocius (45); Gintaras Zelvys (36), his wife Edita Zelviene (26) and his brother Edvardas Zelvys (34); Liamonas Skladaitis (25); Arvydas Bartkevicius (25); and Marijus Gailius (27) of Old Cabra Road, Dublin 7.

The men will appear before Cloverhill District Court on June 6, while Zelviene will appear before Kilmainham District Court on the same day.

Two of the defendants - Zelviene and Skladaitis - have been charged with assaulting garda Declan O'Reilly and student garda Stephen Burn while in custody.

Zelviene is also accused of driving a stolen car.

Gailius is also charged with assaulting student garda Stephen Burn, possession of a false instrument (driving licence) on May 29 and being a passenger in a stolen car.

Other charges the seven Lithuanians faced included: Kocius, unauthorised use of a motor car; Edvardas Zelvys, handling stolen property; Bartkevicius, handling stolen property and taking a motor car without lawful authorisation; and Gintaras Zelvys, unauthorised taking of a motor car in Kilcock, driving off from an Esso service station and being a passenger in a stolen vehicle.

Stolen

When cautioned by gardai, Gintaras Zelvys - who held his wife's hand in the dock - asked: "Is this because I was driving the stolen car?"

He later added: "I never knew that this car was stolen."

His co-accused Kocius told gardai he did not know his vehicle was stolen, replying: "A man left it and said you could use it."

Still no firearms charges?
Personally I would consider having stolen\illegal firearms more serious than a stolen car?

Kryten

Secrecy is the best policy even with a safe and alarm. If Mr Scumbag doesnt know you are a gun owner, he is unlikely to steal it.

Clare gunner

Well another thing you could do if you have broadband internet .Is set up a covert camera covering your gunsafe.With some programme installing& tweaking you can make the CC into activating if there is movement near the safe.Checkable then by you from anywhere in the world by everything from a net cafe to some of the more modern cell phone /PDAs.
Handy too if your alarm goes off,you can tell the Gardai if they will be going into a "hot" situation and you can record the crime being comitted and burn it onto DVD as well if need be.

Keelan

I have an Infac Gun Safe, seems strong, but cant see any number on it, is it good enough?

Traumadoc

Saw a non-national in recently- badly beaten up with GSW to the thighs (single shot -looked like a 22) never made the papers- think its related to those arrests.

babybundy

now i dont own a weapon yet but i will be going for a 223 rem when i am and shortly after a pistol the safe i was looking at has 2 compartments 1 small on top for ammo , firing mech and the pistol if i get it that has a 3 point lock but the large one has 5 point locking the walls are about 2 inches thick
i have seen a gun safe in one of the co-ops and it was only 3mm thick and a crap locking system its a joke making something that light one slap of a lump hammer and its gone
i am wondering one thing wats the story with transporting weapons in a car should there be a lock box or wat ?

Jacobo

babybundy wrote:

i am wondering one thing wats the story with transporting weapons in a car should there be a lock box or wat ?

If it's the same as in Spain, inside a case in the boot. Lock the case and the boot if it makes you more comfortable.

Around here (NW Spain) guns must always be carried inside a case. Many use the manufacturer's plastic case. For custom cases, the favourite for handguns are lockable tool cases, but I have even seen handguns carried inside normal leather briefcases (with custom padding).

No violin cases, though :-)

babybundy

wat about guitar