Garden HELP

netopia

I'm living in an estate house in North Co Dublin and really don't know what to do with my garden. I know what I'd like it to look like if it ever gets finished but thats a big IF.
The soil can't be too bad judging by the amount of weeds that have managed to thrive over since we moved in. Its VERY dry on top but once you dig down its nice and moist, the only problem is the top of it does resemble a desert landscape. Its a fairly big plot (about 200 sq m).
Not sure what I should do, getting a load of topsoil is a thought, but is this possible as the only access for a dumper truck would be over an 8ft high wall?? So how much is topsoil?? And how much do I need to get.
Another option is getting a rotavator and ploughing through the whole lot.
My current way of dealing with it is too leave all the back curtains closed so I don't even have to look at it. Its depressing.
Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. If anyone knows someone decent to get topsoil from or someone in the Balbriggan area who will get a garden to the stage where its ready for seeding and how much this would cost.

crosstownk

Get some topsoil dumped out front and barrow it in (I'm assuming you have a side entrance). Rake it level and put down the seed and rake lightly again.

No pain no gain!! It's lots of hard work but at least you'll be able to open the curtains again!

netopia

Lets say I love a challenge..........no side entrance, only possible entry is a high wall at the back

eddiej

No side entrance through the house with the wheelbarrow the only good thing that Noel Dempsey ever did was make downstairs doors wide enouough for wheel barrows and wheel chairs of course. Bring stuff through this way all the time makes it much more interesting. There are always buckets if you dont want to wheel barrow or get one of those conveyors from HSS and prop it against your side wall. Just remember if access is difficult anybody you get to do it will charge like Christmas.

Maybe the rotavator seems a better idea perhaps

Eddie

annieee

crosstownk wrote:

Get some topsoil dumped out front and barrow it in (I'm assuming you have a side entrance). Rake it level and put down the seed and rake lightly again.

No pain no gain!! It's lots of hard work but at least you'll be able to open the curtains again!

Sorry, netopia, don't mean to hijack your thread, we have a garden that sounds similar to yours....Would it work if you just dumped topsoil on top, crosstownk, without going through the whole rotivating rigmarole. I'm looking for a quick fix solution. Then reseed it on top of the old grass? Or lay the grass that comes in squares?

eddiej

Annieee just plonking on top top soil is what the builder does. Its all about compaction and hard layers in the soil preventing the water from draining down. To be honest the best way is to rotavate whats there, then rake off any large stones (i mean rocks) or other builders waste thats there. Given the price of getting rid of waste (and rightly so) I would choose a spot in the garden where a flower bed would be and bury this. Then rake your lawn area level and if its level enough just walk it with the heels of your boots (far better then a roller) rake level lightly to remove heel prints and either lay turf of sow the seed. Only use the extra soil if absoulutely necessary. Remember to plant plenty of plants in the flower beds etc as these will drink up lots of the water and by getting plants growing you are imporoving soil structure via roots etc. They are always plants (nice ones) that will grow in high moisture environments. Unfortunately ground force and the likes is hard work.

Eddie

PS check out delly's materpiece on another thread its the work that pays off

tabatha

well i just got my garden done. i have no side entrance either so it was a pain in the diddleys. anyway, i got rid of all my grass and got a patio and stones layed. it looks fab. my garden wasnt small either. 20ft wide and about 45 ft long. no more weeding or grass to cut!

annieee

Thanks Eddie J - I've seen Delly's work, it's Very impressive. Just a little daunting for me, never done any garden type stuff before..... Anyways, netopia, apologies again for butting in with my questions!

netopia

annieee wrote:

Sorry, netopia, don't mean to hijack your thread, we have a garden that sounds similar to yours....Would it work if you just dumped topsoil on top, crosstownk, without going through the whole rotivating rigmarole. I'm looking for a quick fix solution. Then reseed it on top of the old grass? Or lay the grass that comes in squares?

All help, ideas & thoughts greatly appreciated.
After thinking it over for the day and calling a few topsoil places (I think) I've decided to get the topsoil dumped out front early in the morning when the neighbours (& more importanly their cars) are gone for the day. Then get it barrowed in through the house as quickly as possible and into the garden.
I was quoted €150 for 5 ton of (ungraded) soil, the guy didn;t know how far (in area) that would go so he suggested I get that much and get an idea from that how much more I'll need.
I have a friends 16 year old son who'd be glad of some money & i'd be glad of the help to get it barrowed and spread.
I like the idea of the quick fix solution to, so if I got it done over June & July at least I could (hopefully) get the grass seed into it in August/September.

netopia

Eddie

ur thoughts are good (and really what I wanted to do). But we dug the garden last year and ok were 2 lazy to do it then but as soon as what had been unexposed undersoil dries its like a board. I dug some of it on sunday and its just after settling again and it all stuck together like a really hard rock. Raking it would be futile because its either all settled in one mass together and it would need a fork rather than a rake and what is loose if also stuck in fairly large clumps together.
I have used a rotavator in other gardens before & I know it'll just break up the surface but not even as fine as what I've been able to manage with digging.
I have a big dip in one area near the fence as well. So I really think the topsoil is the best solution

MargeS

eddiej wrote:

PS check out delly's materpiece on another thread its the work that pays off

Did a search for Delly - no luck! Have you a URL?

annieee

MargeS wrote:

Did a search for Delly - no luck! Have you a URL?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054939061

GreeBo

Its gonna take a long, long time to barrow 5 ton's of soild through your house...

Sounds like your soil needs more sand and peat/organic material.
If your garden is mainly clay it gets very wet and clammy and then dries and cracks.
A good mix of earth will not do either.
But you will probaby need a rotivator to mix it all in...

wyndham

Be careful here. How big is this 16 year old? What experience does he have of barrowing? You could end up with walls and floors destroyed inside your house. When doing a barrowing job like this, your wrists can get very weak and the barrow may topple a couple of times. I would say 5 tonnes represents at least 80-100 barrows. Doubtful he'd make it through 2-3 tonnes of it. You don't wanna be left with it in your front garden. Remember it has to be shovelled into the barrow in the first place, which is the killer job.

Why don't you get a topsoil seller that has a truck with a grab to just lift it over the wall and drop it in?

eddiej

Hi guys,

sorry dont know how to put links to other threads think its been stickied now though. As regards the top soil if you dont break up the crap that you have at the moment you will probably end up with drainage problems if it is as bad as you say it is and have to a delly on it. 5 tonne of top soil aint that much will agree probably a day for some people but its about 40 barrows per tonne (roughly) so 200 barrow trips just take the time dont fill the barrow too full and the walls should survive you can always touch up a little paint here and there. He is 16 for god's sake I was walking 15 mile bare foot to school after milkin the cows drinking sour milk and a sod of turf for the school fire then but sure I was happy.:D

Eddie

Still think you should rotavate first but thats just my two cents.

netopia

The 1st top soil guy I talked to said a ton was only about 10 wheelbarrows full.
Anyway I've been rethinking again, what I dug last week is still pretty ok, it hasn't totally solidified, I saw this "soil improver" in B & Q, you mix it in to your soil to make it better than what you have, so I think maybe by digging that and some moss peat in maybe i'll have somethink I can work with.
What worries me about the topsoil is what if its worse soil than I already have. At least what I'd buy in a bag would be good quality

delly

Well if your worried about the quality, then the tonne bags from www.summerhilllawns.ie should be good enough for you.

FranknFurter

The "soil improver" in B&Q is useless, dont waste your money.
First off, you really should rotovate the area, because you are going to have to dig in sand and lots of organic material / compost if you want somthing that will not be a desert again in a years time. There is no way around that.

Then, you put your topsoil over it. otherwise you end up with a layer of lighter topsoil over a clay ground that roots cannot penetrate. The plants will die off and the topsoil will be either waterlogged or desert again depending on weather.

Basically, unless you break up and add drainage material (sand), and compost or peat into what you have now, you will always just have hard clay, and most plants (except weeds) wont tolerate that and will die rather quickly, you will never have a "mature" garden and will be constantly replacing your plants and lawn.

The soil you have now, dampen some (slightly), hold it and see if it rolls into a ball of clay in your hand, if it does not, THEN you have a hope of having to do less work than I say above.
Either way, at the very least, rotovate or turn by hand (go down at least a foot) what you have right now before you add your topsoil, what you have needs to be aerated and broken down or topsoil is useless.

hope that helps,

b

eddiej

Hi Net

1 tonne = 1000kgs

10 barrows = 100kgs per barrow (bit much I think)

40 barrows = 25 kg per barrow (bit little me thinks)

25 barrows = 40 kgs per barrow (just right me thinks)

Though maybe wont carry 40 kgs per barrow all day if not used to it.

Agree with Frank have to be rotavating to break up that hard pan. If you want soil conditioner try good old fashioned farm yard manure and mix it in to pre rotavated soil will at structure, nutrients and improve aeration/drainage.

Eddie

netopia

Eddie you'll be delighted with me .......... I've been digging. All the gardening books I have say that actual manual digging is better than rotavation. Not gonna kill myself, its too early to be putting down grass seed, certainly to dry at the mo (long may it last). Just gonna do a little at a time and mix so good old moss peat into what I have.
I've been observing the highways & byeways of Dublin over the weekend and I've come to the conclusion that grass, even decent nice green looking green grass, will grow on any kind of crappy soil.
So here is where I'm at, keep digging & taking out the dying weeds & stones. Then I'm gonna fill the bottom of the big hole at the bottom of the garden with these stones at top it up with my lovely (stuck with it) soil.
For what goes around the edge in the bed I can put some kind of good smelly fertiliser in there to improve that soil, but thats months away at this stage.
Then in front of the kitchen door I'm just gonna kill all growth & level it and plonk a shed on top & put some of that weed control fabric down topped with gravel. There'll be about 40 sq m there.

eddiej

Hi Net,

Proud as punch, the feckers on ground force etc make it look too easy they dont mention too much the Oirish fellow who does all the bloody work along with Charlie no bra Dimmock.

Best solution all round Net will have a good garden that will last and you will get great satisfaction from doing it all yourself. Remember take your time it took Delly ages to get to there masterpiece. I too have moved into a new house and part of my garden was a veritable swamp during the early rains but now its getting right with a bit of digging. These things just take time, To sow grass seed now I would wait until August but you want it nicely growing before the frost and maybe even give it a cut by then.

Good luck and let us all know how you go with it There aint enough gardening on this board I LOVE PLANTS

Eddie

On a rant as usual