Would appreciate help on a secure car park unsecured issue

Bamboozled

We rented an apartment with secure underground parking.
Every so often the gates refused to work and were left open for days at a time until someone could find the maintenance guy.

The electric circuit was vandalised a while back and the car park locked and all tenents were refused access to it without being told for what length of time it would be closed for. This was so the circuit could be replaced and cameras installed.

Recently the gates were opened and we were allowed use the car park again, but the gates do not close anymore. The electrics have been caged in and that's about all the work that has been done.

Every week i see the maintenance guy i ask when the gates are going to be fixed and i'm told "oh in a few days", "by the end of the week" etc and they never are. Now people in the town realise there is free parking in our complex, they're using that instead of the car park across the road. Same with people on the way to pubs at the weekend. (We were told the maintenance guy is the guy to go to as he is the one that the landlords contact to get stuff done: electricians, etc)

Last weekend my car was broken into and my stereo stolen along with about 20 CD's. The CD's were in a visor unit so they werent on display. The stereo was a good aftermarket MP3 player with USB port.

My question is, since we've paid our rent on time since we moved in here over a year ago and have not done anything to void our contract, do I have to be out of pocket for a new stereo or can I go to the landlord for the cost of replacing it as we have rented the apartment with secure parking and are left with an underground carpark open to anyone?

It has been reported to the local Gardai (around the corner!).

I'd appreciate it if someone could help me.
Thanks.

copacetic

i doubt you have any comeback really. most 'secure' carparks have cars broken in to every couple of weeks, whether the gates are working or not, usually they are reasonably easy to push open far enough to walk through even when locked. This happened me in the 'secure' car parks the last place I lived, they are really only good for preventing the car itself going missing. I'm sure there are also signs up everywhere saying the management isn't responsible for lost or stolen items..

Bamboozled

Thanks for the reply.

No signs up. Nothing.

Spoke to another experienced landlord that has properties elsewhere (not in our town) and he has said that if we rented the apartment with secure parking and its not secure due to the gates not being fixed then its up to the landlord to replace the stereo and CD's.

So i'm getting conflicting info and dont know what to do now.

copacetic

Bamboozled wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

No signs up. Nothing.

Spoke to another experienced landlord that has properties elsewhere (not in our town) and he has said that if we rented the apartment with secure parking and its not secure due to the gates not being fixed then its up to the landlord to replace the stereo and CD's.

So i'm getting conflicting info and dont know what to do now.

if they don't have 'park at your own risk' signs up everywhere then you could have a case. My place had
them to cover them in just this kind of case. Not sure what your next step should be, talk to the landlord, then the management agent..

Bamboozled

The oonly signs anywhere within the car park, courtyard and apartment blocks are "The fountain and pond are a source of danger to toddlers. Parents must accompany children".

Thats it.

The landlords recently dropped the management company so this will be our first interaction with him hence needing the advice before approaching him!

And thanks, again.

FillSpectre

Did you sign anything saying your car will be protected from robbery? If somebody broke into your appartment you wouldn't expect the landlord to pay even if the lobby door was broken.

Did you make the landlord aware about the car park gates?

The managemet company would be those responsible as far as I can see.

I don't see how anybody is responsible for this. As somebody vandalised the gates it doesn't sound like the gates would have stopped anybody.

I heard a woman on the radio a while ago say her car was stripped from a locked car park over a period of time.

Bamboozled

I dont know about signing stuff about protected from robbery. I doubt it but will be going over the contract when i can get access to it.

Yes I would expect the landlord to pay if the apartment was broken into. We rang a few companies for contents insurance and were told take it out with the same company the landlord had the building insured with. He doesnt have building insurance and we were refused cover on contents insurance because of it by other companies.

Yes the landlord is aware of the gate issue. He has been since the new electrics have been installed, and we have been on to the management company weekly about a date for them being fixed, along with the maintenance guy until the landlords dropped the management company.

We were told the gates would take a week to be fixed. We were locked out for that week. When the week was up, the car park was re-opened because one of the landlords created hell over paying 50K for 2 spaces and his tentants didnt have access to them, so they moved out, and the gates do not work still. More tenents have moved out since. We cant afford to just yet, not because of money but because of time etc when planning a wedding for Sept. The gate thing has been an ongoing issue for more than two months.

Thank you for your reply.

FillSpectre

So you do see the management company are were at fault yet you want the landlord to pay you?

You do realise that only the management company can work on the property or give permission?

The way it sounds to me is the landlord is not at any fault if anybody is it is the management company. In saying that I can't see how you can hold anybody responsible other than the theif. A secure car park has no expectation of full protection of your car and I don't see how anybody could resaonably expect it to.

Bamboozled

All the landlords stopped using the management company a while back hence me asking about whether its the landlords responsibility.

FillSpectre

Bamboozled wrote:

All the landlords stopped using the management company a while back hence me asking about whether its the landlords responsibility.

No as to expect a car park will prevent your car from been broken into is unreasonable. The gates don't really matter.

I think you mean the managemnt agent or service company was fired as the management company owns the land and can't be fired.

Is every single property rented out?

Bamboozled

Ok the management agency, the company that advertises the properties and lets them out on behalf of the landlords. Sorry. Didnt realise there's loads of different names and I should have been more specific.

Yes all properties are rented.

antoinolachtnai

I think there is next to no hope of the landlord being held liable for that. It just wasn't his fault. You could try suing the management company (which owns the building) but really, I wouldn't hold out much hope. It will probably be a term of your landlord's lease that the management company is not liable for damage to property, and your sublet will be governed by this.

The building insurance for an apartment block is dealt with by the management company, not the individual apartment-owners.

If the building is not being maintained properly, you might be in a strong position to break your lease prematurely. You would need to take advice before doing that though.

Good luck with the wedding!

Bamboozled

We already are in a strong position to break the lease according to my solicitor because of all the ****e that has gone on, but we cant move yet with the wedding. Stuck between a rock and a hard place with that coming up.

Just didnt fancy paying half what i did for the radio to hear the solicitor tell me he'll get back to me. I'd get a new but not as good radio for that.

Thanks for your reply.

Victor

You are paying for a secure car park. The least you are entitled to is a rent reduction for the period that it isn't secure.

Your only relationship is with your landlord, he is responsible to you for the behavior of the management company, letting agents, maintainence contractors, etc.

If I left something for safe keeping and paid for it, I would be upset for it to be stolen.

Bamboozled

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The_Conductor

Ok- so the Landlords fired the Company who was managing the complex on behalf of the Management Company.
The buildings are not insured (at all).
The only ongoing maintenance is some maintenance guy who does a bit of Jack-of-all-trades jobbies around the place.

Even if there is valid insurance in the complex- the excess would normally be about 1000 Euro (it could be lower, but that means a larger premium, and if anything it sounds like there could possibly be no insurance whatsoever....)

Vis-a-vis your own insurance, it will probably cover the theft, up to a max of about 400 Euro (depends on your insurance company). A lot of car policies do not knock your no-claims for a theft claim.

At the end of the day- it sounds like the Landlords are trying to maximise their rental income and minimise their outgoings, by not paying anything at all that they can get out of.

At the end of the day- the property is vested in a Management Company- each of the landlords owns a lease on their property- the property itself is owned by the Management Company. The Management Company manages the complex on behalf of the landlords though- not on behalf of the tenants. You could point out that strictly speaking the Management Company is liable to your landlord, and request that he/she sort it for you. Get a reasonable valuation of the cost of the goods stolen, along with any damage caused to your car. If your landlord is willing to fight your case for you- normally what would then happen is he/she would come to an agreement whereby your expenses would be reimbursed to you either by your landlord or via your landlord- who in turn would either be paid by the Management Company- or more likely have a credit towards his annual Management Fee (insofar as one exists).

If the Landlord is not willing to intercede with the Management Company on your behalf, you may find that spending 15 Euro on a small claims court claim could be money well spent.

It sounds like a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately I can easily see a lot of apartment blocks going the same way

Bamboozled

Thanks for your reply. A bit complicated but its late and i'll absorb the info tomorrow.

My car is insured with "secure parking" like a lot of folks these days. As the car park wasnt secure, I've been told start saving :rolleyes:

Most of the landlords here are like you say. The apartments arent 2 years old and 2 have had to be completely ripped out and refitted due to faults. Others have huge cracks in them. Most of the blocks heating doesnt work. All the toilets get backed up... its a pretty sorry saga.

Imposter

You have the agreement (contract) with the landlord so you could in theory sue the landlord for lack of secure parking leading to the theft, breach of contract (in that you couldn't use the parking you were paying for), as well as anything else you can think of. It would then be up to the landlord to sue the management company. I'm surprised a solicitor hadn't got definite advice on this!

homeOwner

It might be a long shot but your cds might be covered under yours or the landlord's house content insurance. That is if you have any. Even if you dont, maybe the landlord has. A friend of mine had a camera stolen from his car, his house content insurance paid for it.....check the policy, they cover all sorts of strange situations that you dont think they would.

Bamboozled

Thanks for the replies guys.

Contents insurance wont cover it. See one of the posts above that i made regarding insurance.

i do appreciate all of you taking the time to reply.