American's Speak Up

Velvet Vocals

Just thought I'd post this up..... this is an email I got today from my Uncle who lives in America. He is 2nd generation... i.e. his dad was an immigrant and he was born there.....with that in mind I find it interesting that he and many like him believe stuff like this.........


American's Speak Up
Think about this: If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone

---

YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!!

Subject: THIS WAS IN A TAMPA NEWSPAPER

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??????

Think about it! All we have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?

I celebrate Christmas....... ....but because it isn't celebrated by everyone..............we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that. This says it all!
This is an editorial written by an
American citizen, published in a Tampa, FL Newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS,
NOT AMERICANS,
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11,
we have experienced a surge
in patriotism by the majority
of Americans. However...... the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about
the possibility that our patriotism was

offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America.
Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.
This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans...... we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.
Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women.......on Christian principles.............founded this nation..... and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home.........because God is part of our culture.


If Stars and Stripes offend you, or
you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move
to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have
no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where
you came from.
This is OUR COUNTRY,
our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion and we
will allow you every opportunity to do so!
But once you are done

complaining....... whining...... and griping....... about our flag.......
our pledge...... our national motto........or our
way of life....I highly encourage you to
take advantage of one other Great American Freedom.......


THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

It is Time for America to Speak up
If you agree -- pass this along;
if you don't agree -- delete it - You are in the WRONG Country!



AMEN

I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, lets all try,
please!

bonkey

Saint Something wrote:

He is 2nd generation... i.e. his dad was an immigrant and he was born there.....with that in mind I find it interesting that he and many like him believe stuff like this.........

Yeah. I remember seeing an interview with some 1st or 2nd generation Vietnamese immigrants. There were some who had come from Vietnam, spoke halting English, but were dead set against allowing foreigners into the US to steal their jobs because the country was already full or something.

(rant deleted)
...because God is part of our culture
(rant deleted)

To such people I would say: "My Jesus forgives your Jesus".

bonkey

it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers

Funny...I thought it was one of them who wrote this piece. You'd think he'd know how to send it to himself...

tallus

Pure rhetoric in my opinion.
It may have been founded on christian principles but there seems to be little or no sign of it in American society now.
/quote if you don't agree -- delete it - You are in the WRONG Country!
That smacks of GWB's "you're either with us or against us" statement. Don't people have a right to complain no matter if they are right or wrong.
/quote Think about it! All we have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?
Aren't his rights protected under the U.S. constitution?
/quote This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans...... we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
Diluting soverignty.. that smacks of KKK/white supremacy.
The U.S. doesn't have it's own language, it's called english for a reason, it originated in England, and just because you spell a few words differently doesn't make it American
that whole email reminds me of a spoiled child not getting it's way
I dont have any problems with Americans, I have some very good friends living there but that email just annoyed the f*ck out of me.

Velvet Vocals

yea, I know exactly what you mean. It's like, they have this amasing country that they get to live in because they themselves immigrated there, but they want to delete that past, they didn't come from anywhere else... they were born there! GET OVER YOUR SELVES!!!!!!!!

This is the reply I sent back to my uncle:

Hey,

I was just wondering what you really think about this email? Did just glace at it and forward it on or do you really agree with everything written here?

I only ask because it seems to me that everyone person living in America outside of the Native Americans is an immigrant in some form or other. Your either descended from someone who went there looking for a better life or you made that journey your self. Surely the culture of America is built on the cultures of many different nations.
I do understand that Political Correctness can get out of hand sometimes, and I really think that someone being offended by others wishing them a Happy Christmas is a bit much,in the same way that no one should be offened by being wished good shabis or any other religious greeting, but if you are lucky enough to live in a country like America maybe there a few prices to pay.... and PC might be one of them!

"This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and out national identity"

I'm sorry but this quote makes no sense! It's not just an idea, it's a fact, like or not America is a multicultural community!

I leave you with this thought, if the native Americans had treated yesterdays immigrants with same mentality being banded in this email, would you be happy to have lived their way of life in order to stay in "your" country?

layke

Go to the UK and see how banks are not allowed to display a picture of a pig anymore because it offends Muslims.

I share the writers centiment, like he/she I have no problem with some one coming to Ireland to live/work however I totally disagree with having to change things to suit them. Such things will only breed racism.

tallus

excellent reply
I got that email a month or so back myself from an american friend I replied in a similar vein I felt bad after it because she's a really nice person but what the hell!
The U.S. has a lot of positive points sometimes it's hard to see them after an email like that. I suppose it's a bit of a flag waver and people do need to have their national identity and self worth as a country enforced after the despicable attacks on The WTC and Pentagon, but there has to be a better way of doing it heh
/endeth the rant

Velvet Vocals

Ok, I'm going to take your point Layke, in the context of us being in a so called "established" country, I.E countries in Europe being much older then America have a much longer history and therefore have strong cultures. By which case it may be harder to accept so many changes being requested by other nationalities coming in.
But if we accept that we live in a democracy... which I'm sure we do... and we therefore accept that we have democratically elected government who with our say so brought us in to the EU and in which case we have agreed that people from other European states are welcome in our county....
If we accept all this, then really we should accommodate them as best we can! I'm not saying bend over backwards for them or be pushed around, but I am saying lets at lest try to be flexible. It's all part of change and movement which can be a good thing!

But when think about the US then this point really isn't valid because they are not a long established country with strong history... their history comes from immigration.

tallus

Was it Thomas Jefferson who said "you can judge any democracy by the way it treats it's minoroties"
? anyone?

Velvet Vocals

tallus wrote:

excellent reply
I got that email a month or so back myself from an american friend I replied in a similar vein I felt bad after it because she's a really nice person but what the hell!
The U.S. has a lot of positive points sometimes it's hard to see them after an email like that. I suppose it's a bit of a flag waver and people do need to have their national identity and self worth as a country enforced after the despicable attacks on The WTC and Pentagon, but there has to be a better way of doing it heh
/endeth the rant

Thanks Talus! I know what you mean about feeling bad, I do to. I do love my family (obviously) and the amount of times I've been over and stayed with my uncle and he's been so good to me!!! But I do think that the people need to challenged when it comes to ideals like this......

Jimboo_Jones

layke wrote:

I share the writers centiment, like he/she I have no problem with some one coming to Ireland to live/work however I totally disagree with having to change things to suit them. Such things will only breed racism.

I guess American's better get use to living in TeePee's

on a more serious note, I think that most of the post is a load of hog wash. Stuff like 'not being able to say merry christmas' I am pretty sure that if you where to walk arround New York in December that you would see plenty of christmas decorations, with the words christmas on them.

tallus wrote:

Was it Thomas Jefferson who said "you can judge any democracy by the way it treats it's minoroties"
? anyone?

Humm, I heard the quote refering to prisioners before, but maybe they where just altering it for their own purposes.

I found this..

Winston Churchill once said 'a civilization could be judged by the way
it treated its prisoners.'

PS. I really REALLY hate them 'link' mails

tallus

Agreed. SaintS
I was there last year myself and loved it. Don't have relatives living there now but I used to have loads, they came back to the 'oul sod after a number of years. They loved living there but alas uncle sam didn't invite them heh

layke

I would disagree, America has one of the strongest (short lived) cultures in the world. You just have to roam around town to hear the American slang used or the music played. I for one listen to Rap music, which is American Black culture.

We use american slang, well I certainly do from time to time.

The point i'm making is, look at the UK. They are already there, certain laws being changed to suit immigrants and the majority people feel a little mistreated with the mentality of "I've lived here all my life, why should I change to suit some foreigners" which I think is a perfectly acceptable attitute to take.

Jimboo, I thought it was Wigwams?

bonkey

Saint Something wrote:

and I really think that someone being offended by others wishing them a Happy Christmas is a bit much,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole Christmas thing was mostly modified a long time ago in the US in deference to their Jewish citizens.

Are the Jewish contingencies in the US also being told to sod off by the author?

jc

Jimboo_Jones

layke wrote:

The point i'm making is, look at the UK. They are already there, certain laws being changed to suit immigrants and the majority people feel a little mistreated with the mentality of "I've lived here all my life, why should I change to suit some foreigners" which I think is a perfectly acceptable attitute to take.

Which laws would they be? I have lived in the UK all my life and would like to know how I am being mistreated.

bonkey

Saint Something wrote:

Ok, I'm going to take your point Layke, in the context of us being in a so called "established" country, I.E countries in Europe being much older then America have a much longer history and therefore have strong cultures.

Indeed. Pictures of pigs on cash dispensers can be traced back hundreds of years. Its as much a part of our Irishness as Nike runners (from the Waterford O'Nike's) and McDonalds (look at the surname..need I say more) and has been an important part of our culture for centuries.

layke wrote:

I totally disagree with having to change things to suit them. Such things will only breed racism.

I agree. When Ireland was only for the Irish (and the English) we could freely refer to people of colour as n*****s because they weren't here to hear us.

Now that some of them have been allowed into our country, we have to actually take their feelings into consideration and be more aware of what names we call them.

Clearly, this can only give rise to racism. If they don't like being called n******s, they should go home, or to some other nation, and stop expecting us to change our ways in our country.

Saint Something wrote:

I'm not saying bend over backwards for them or be pushed around, but I am saying lets at lest try to be flexible. It's all part of change and movement which can be a good thing!

No, damn you. No, I say. That bleeding heartism will turn us all into liberals. They come here, they make the allowances. Thats how it works.

They have flexibility of airlines and flight destinations, and that should be more than enough for them.

BTW, when I go to their nations on holidays etc. it shoudl be clear that because I don't intend to actually move there, my culture etc. must be accepted by them in their land.

jc

Velvet Vocals

bonkey wrote:

Indeed. Pictures of pigs on cash dispensers can be traced back hundreds of years. Its as much a part of our Irishness as Nike runners (from the Waterford O'Nike's) and McDonalds (look at the surname..need I say more) and has been an important part of our culture for centuries.


I agree. When Ireland was only for the Irish (and the English) we could freely refer to people of colour as n*****s because they weren't here to hear us.

Now that some of them have been allowed into our country, we have to actually take their feelings into consideration and be more aware of what names we call them.

Clearly, this can only give rise to racism. If they don't like being called n******s, they should go home, or to some other nation, and stop expecting us to change our ways in our country.


No, damn you. No, I say. That bleeding heartism will turn us all into liberals. They come here, they make the allowances. Thats how it works.

They have flexibility of airlines and flight destinations, and that should be more than enough for them.

BTW, when I go to their nations on holidays etc. it shoudl be clear that because I don't intend to actually move there, my culture etc. must be accepted by them in their land.

jc

Best post I've read all day!

walshb

I suppose the thing about the US is that nobody is really a true American because as was already said, the US was founded by many different explorers and countries. However, the UK would have most definitely shaped and idealised most of the US as regards laws and religion and Culture. I agree that it's those arriving in the US who should be trying to learn English and who should accept the US traditions and values.

Jimboo_Jones

re the pig in banks

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s1494636.htm

appears it was all 'hogwash' , but hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of our anger towards others!

There is absolutely no fact in the story. We simply had a UK wide savings marketing campaign, which included pictures of piggy banks, running until the end of September.

Piggy banks have been and will continue to be used as a promotional item by NatWest.

— Email from Caroline Harris, Media Relations, NatWest, to Media Watch, 28 October 2005

nice post jc BTW

metrovelvet

I am one of those, so I feel I can comment on this with some experience of it.

In fact it makes sense that a 2nd generation would have those feelings as it is usually the children to have to go between two cultures,the one at home and the one outside, many of whom [like young Greek women for example who really have it touch in patriarchal families] would be rather happy to see the habits of the old country left behind.

I ask really - if you love your habits so much why did you leave?

Second generations often have to deal with parents who 1. refuse to learn English so as children have to do EVERYTHING for their parents 2. Put up with the traditions of a country they have never been to despite being American, ie arranged marriage. 3. Deal with parents who REFUSE to see that their children are american and constantly insult their identity.

So yes, I would also agree with the sentiment in that post. I know how hard immigration is and the pains of homesickness, but come on.

tallus

fair Point metrovelvet, but in the same token I have a lot of friends stateside who wear their heritage like a badge so it's a double edged sword i.m.o.
Admittedly most of them are of Irish stock so there was no language barrier, but they do look very favourable upon their Irish heritage, it's a thing of pride for them.

ISAW

metrovelvet wrote:

I ask really - if you love your habits so much why did you leave?

Maybe because they were in the habit of going to the Mosque daily and then found out that the 70 or so Mosques in their twon had been reduced to rubble by occupying troops?

Second generations often have to deal with parents who 1. refuse to learn English so as children have to do EVERYTHING for their parents 2. Put up with the traditions of a country they have never been to despite being American, ie arranged marriage. 3. Deal with parents who REFUSE to see that their children are american and constantly insult their identity.

we have a similar thing in Ireland. It is called Fermanagh

So yes, I would also agree with the sentiment in that post. I know how hard immigration is and the pains of homesickness, but come on.

I believe that the whole origin of this "happy Christmas" is not politically correct is dubious. Where did it happen that people were told thewy couldn't say it? What organisation court or otherwise suggested this?

Velvet Vocals

metrovelvet wrote:

[like young Greek women for example who really have it tough in patriarchal families]

Been watching My Big Fat Greek Wedding again?:rolleyes:

ChityWest

ISAW wrote:

I believe that the whole origin of this "happy Christmas" is not politically correct is dubious. Where did it happen that people were told thewy couldn't say it? What organisation court or otherwise suggested this?

The Anti-Defamation League ( a very powerful pro-israel lobbying/pressure group) in the united states for one -

"Every December, public school students, parents, teachers and administrators face the difficult task of acknowledging the various religious and secular holiday traditions celebrated during that time of year. This pamphlet is designed to inform members of the public school community about the current state of the law regarding constitutionally permissible religious holiday observance in the public schools. "



http://www.adl.org/religious_freedom/resource_kit/december_holiday_guidelines.asp

As you can see from this long winded christian bashing article 'the december dilemna' from their own website.

Velvet Vocals

tallus wrote:

fair Point metrovelvet, but in the same token I have a lot of friends stateside who wear their heritage like a badge so it's a double edged sword i.m.o.
Admittedly most of them are of Irish stock so there was no language barrier, but they do look very favourable upon their Irish heritage, it's a thing of pride for them.

The same uncle that sent me the mail is one of those people, very proud of being Irish, when I come over I'm coming from "The Old Country" and he walks around with his Irish shirts on, drinks in all the Irish bars, everyone who knows him knows that he's "Irish" He has an Irish flag on his front door for fe*k sake! He's been over here and traced the family tree and all that stuff.....
I'm possibly being a bit hard on him because I have to receive his reply so I'm still not sure where is true feelings on this are.
But there are so many people in the US that are just like him, proud of where the come from, and so they should be! Why not! They came from somewhere that means something to them, they have a right to share how they feel about that with the people around them. Who gave them that right? The US constitution gave them that right, written by people who emigrated to The America's. Who's to say that it's ok for Peter but it's not ok for Paul?

bonkey

metrovelvet wrote:

I ask really - if you love your habits so much why did you leave?

Dead right.

If I was, for example, an Afghan who loved benig Muslim, making world-renowned rugs and Afghan customs, I can't think of a single reason why I'd possibly want to leave Afghanistan.

metrovelvet

tallus wrote:

fair Point metrovelvet, but in the same token I have a lot of friends stateside who wear their heritage like a badge so it's a double edged sword i.m.o.
Admittedly most of them are of Irish stock so there was no language barrier, but they do look very favourable upon their Irish heritage, it's a thing of pride for them.

tallus - just to point out that when you have immigrant parents its quite a different experience from having a "heritage" or of stock. In terms of practicalities. When your parents have the same language as the emigrant nation then that does make a huge difference in terms of the responsibilities laid on the kids. I think we who have anglophone parents have it easier in that regard.

This is not to say that second generations [of any immigrant group] are not proud of where their parents come from, its just that they have a closer view to what was left behind and are the pivot where adaptation occurs. You can be proud of your heritage, but it is in the PAST where it belongs.

I never saw MY Big Fat Greek Wedding.

tallus

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

Humm, I heard the quote refering to prisioners before, but maybe they where just altering it for their own purposes.

I found this..

Winston Churchill once said 'a civilization could be judged by the way
it treated its prisoners.'
Ok this is off topic but there was a standing joke among British soldiers during WWII Q: "what's the quietest place on earth?"
A: "an australian P.O.W. camp"
sorry for going off topic

tallus

metrovelvet wrote:

tallus - just to point out that when you have immigrant parents its quite a different experience from having a "heritage" or of stock. In terms of practicalities. When your parents have the same language as the emigrant nation then that does make a huge difference in terms of the responsibilities laid on the kids. I think we who have anglophone parents have it easier in that regard.

This is not to say that second generations [of any immigrant group] are not proud of where their parents come from, its just that they have a closer view to what was left behind and are the pivot where adaptation occurs. You can be proud of your heritage, but it is in the PAST where it belongs.

I never saw MY Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I never saw MY Big Fat Greek Wedding either

bonkey

metrovelvet wrote:

its just that they have a closer view to what was left behind and are the pivot where adaptation occurs.

Not true. They are where you think the pivot should be. The entire problem stems from the reality that there is no such clean pivot. Some migrants blend into their new society. Some don't.

It doesn't break down on simple cultural stereotypes.

Of course, it hasn't always been this way. Look at your history books concerning immigration into the US in (say) the 18th and 19th centries. Marvel at the open-arms welcome the Chinese received in the US when they arrived and worked on projects such as railroad-building. Look how the Irish were feted like non-monarchial kings when they came in their droves. In all cases, large numbers of a culture came to the US, left their heritage on the boat, and within a single generation ceased to exist as an identifiable foreign culture.

This proper approach to immigration clearly worked, and this is why we need to return to this state of affairs as soon as possible.

You can be proud of your heritage, but it is in the PAST where it belongs.

You're not suggesting that Irish people living in Ireland leave their heritage in the past, where it belongs, are you?

Don't you really mean Immigrant heritage should be left in the past where you think it belongs?

jc

DamoKen

ISAW wrote:

I believe that the whole origin of this "happy Christmas" is not politically correct is dubious. Where did it happen that people were told thewy couldn't say it? What organisation court or otherwise suggested this?

First came across this a few years back while working in an American company in Germany. After a month of complaints from a very small number of American employees regarding the office Christmas Party which they insisted should be called the Holiday Party, management which was German finally caved and retitled it. Incidentally the majority of American employees in the company were disgusted by this OTT PCness and funnily enough the few that did complain were all of Christian origin. Funny old world eh?

On a side note, the mention of the Piggy Bank bullsh*t reminded me of another incident reported a few years back

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/16/nbuns16.xml

Daily Telegraph wrote:

Schools across Britain have been ordered by local authorities to abandon the ancient tradition of serving hot cross buns at Easter so as not to offend children of non-Christian faiths.

Some councils are refusing to hand out the traditional treats because they fear that the symbol of the cross will spark complaints from Jewish, Hindu and Muslim pupils or their families.

......

The spokesman added: "We are moving away from a religious theme for Easter and will not be doing hot cross buns. We can't risk a similar outcry over Easter like the kind we had on Pancake Day. We will probably be serving naan breads instead."

.......

Despite this ruling, the council confirmed that it will continue to organise special menus to celebrate events as diverse as the Chinese New Year, Italian National Day and Russian Independence Day.

.......

Ann Widdecombe, the Conservative MP and former shadow home secretary who is a Roman Catholic convert, described the ban as "appalling and absurd". "These people are silly asses," she said.

"It would appear that we should know about everyone else's culture apart from our Christian tradition. It seems that anything that comes from an ethnic minority is fine, while anything Christian is wrong.

It would seem that this feeling is not in some ways restricted to America alone, and although I wouldn't agree with most of the sentiments in the original article, I can understand to a point why people albeit in the case of the States somewhat hypocritically, feel this way.