Overtaking Lane Hoggers and penalty points

Archeron

A friend of mine was driving on the M50, and as usual, some selfish person was sitting in the overtaking lane in a van doing about 100kmph. He passed by the van in the slow lane travelling at about 110.

an unmarked squad car pulled him over and done him for dangerous driving saying its always illegal to undertake in the "slow" lane. I thought the rules were that you could undertake if the traffic in the right lane was moving slower, or turning right etc. The copper said he was sending the case to the DPP and that this guy would be done for dangerous driving!!

Is that right? I always see muppets and muppettes hogging the overtaking lane on the M4, and I always undertake within the speed limit, as its hardly my fault that they are in the wrong lane. Maybe I'm in the wrong for doing that, but I dont know now. Any opinions?

Kimbot

Its a stupid law!! People should only use the overtaking lane for "overtaking" and not full blown driving. The Garda should have done the other fella!!

ambro25

I just hope your mate got the other car's details handy for his sollicitor and has the balls/cash to fight it.

:mad:

The_Magoo

Archeron wrote:

an unmarked squad car pulled him over and done him for dangerous driving saying its always illegal to undertake in the "slow" lane. I thought the rules were that you could undertake if the traffic in the right lane was moving slower, or turning right etc. ?

Thats the impression I was under, and like yourself, something I have done myself. However, was he in the overtaking lane behind the OP, swerve in and undertake, or did he just stick to his lane and maintain his speed?

bazz26

Archeron wrote:

A friend of mine was driving on the M50, and as usual, some selfish person was sitting in the overtaking lane in a van doing about 100kmph. He passed by the van in the slow lane travelling at about 110.

an unmarked squad car pulled him over and done him for dangerous driving saying its always illegal to undertake in the "slow" lane. I thought the rules were that you could undertake if the traffic in the right lane was moving slower, or turning right etc. The copper said he was sending the case to the DPP and that this guy would be done for dangerous driving!!

Is that right? I always see muppets and muppettes hogging the overtaking lane on the M4, and I always undertake within the speed limit, as its hardly my fault that they are in the wrong lane. Maybe I'm in the wrong for doing that, but I dont know now. Any opinions?

My understanding was that there was no such thing as a slow or fast lane on a duel carriage or motorway. Just a normal lane (inside lane) and overtaking lane (outside lane).

Similar thing happened to me this morning on the way to work, muppet doing about 80kph on the outside lane the whole way along the duel carriage way. I was doing about 100kph on the inside lane and coming up towards him/her. I slowed down and didn't try to undertake this muppet as I wasn't sure what he/she was going to do, I had a feeling he/she might suddenly pull in front of me though. Guess what, he/she suddenly decided to move into the inside lane ahead of me without even looking or using his/her indicator. If I had tried to undertake this muppet he/she would have ploughed into the side of me. :eek:

It would be interesting to know who was at fault here, me for undertaking or the other guy for just pulling into the inside lane?

Seth Brundle

quoted in an old thread:

Alun wrote:

Here is what the law actually says (taken from the Irish Statute Book, not the ROTR which is only an interpretation ofthe law, not binding ... (My boldface)

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—
( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,
( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,
( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Now, clearly, it all hangs on the intended interpretation of the phrase "slow moving traffic", but I'd imagine that it's patently obvious to most people that the intention was to cover those "Monday morning on the M50" type scenarios, and not two lone cars on a motorway at 3 in the morning, however slowly the car in the overtaking lane is travelling.

Now, maybe the actual letter of the law needs tightening up to make it absolutely clear what they meant to say, but I'm not sure that it would be entirely possible to formulate the regulation in such a way. Common sense should prevail over the letter of the law in this case.

Just a few additional queries about the situation:
* was the slower driver overtaking a car?
* was your friend just after overtaking someone or why else were they in the overtaking lane?
* how long did your friend wait behind the slower driver before moving into the driving lane?
* what was the speed limit on that stretch?

iregk

In ireland we do not have any slow/fast lanes. We have over taking lanes. However most irish drivers are too stupid/ignorant to know this. This morning driving in for me down the N81 throught Tallaght the over taking lane had about 40 cars in it and guess what my lane (thats the one on the left) had about 3. I coasted past so many cars I couldn't believe they were all just sitting there in that lane!

el tel

According to 5(b), below:
"A driver may only overtake on the left where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention"

So, if you are immediately apprehended by the fuzz after 'undertaking' all you have to do is explain that after overtaking you intended to turn left at the next road junction. (To prove this it would help if you remain in the inside lane after undertaking and have your left indicator on to demonstate this intention).

Easy:D

Archeron

kbannon wrote:

Just a few additional queries about the situation:
* was the slower driver overtaking a car?
No, he was just sitting there trundling along.

* was your friend just after overtaking someone or why else were they in the overtaking lane?
Yes, he had moved into the overtaking lane to get by a truck.

* how long did your friend wait behind the slower driver before moving into the driving lane?
app 10/15 seconds

* what was the speed limit on that stretch?
120kmph

I see the legal snippit that indicates undertaking on the left is okay in slow moving traffic, but does that mean on a relatively clear road, if one person sits in the overtaking lane doing, for example, 60kmph, that the entire motorway or carraigeway must go slower than this to stay within the law?

Mr Magnolia

jonny24ie wrote:

Its a stupid law!! People should only use the overtaking lane for "overtaking" and not full blown driving. The Garda should have done the other fella!!

What he said. I travel more than 160 motorway miles per day, and constantly have to 'undertake' muppets in the overtaking lane. Personally though, I would only do it when the motorways relatively empty (which it is when I'm on it)

I'm not one of these muppets that weaves in and out to gain a couple of car lengths, those tools should get done to.

prospect

The Garda is WRONG. It is not ALWAYS illegal to pass on the left. However in this particular case, the OPs friend did break the law.

It is a bit stupid, becasue if you are driving on a motorway in the driving (left) lane at 100Kmh, (i.e. 20Kmh below the limit) and you catch up on a car in the overtaking (right) lane that is doing 80kmh (ie 40kmh below the limit) strictly speaking, all you can do is slow down to their speed and wait for them to either speed up, or switch to the appropriate lane.
Dumb isn't it.

cormie

What do you guys do when the roads are quite empty and you're approaching somebody who's in the overtaking lane, not overtaking anybody, and you're approaching in the left lane?

I stay in the left lane, then move out to the overtaking lane behind them, wait a while and if they don't move I'll give them a little flash of the lights (to make them aware of my presense) if they don't move at all I'll undertake them as I think it's safer to do that then to be behind a driver who doesn't know the rotr for the whole duration of my jouney on that road at that time.

wonder how the law would react to that?

Kimbot

Well the Law wouldn't like it if you "Flash" another driver for the reason that it could distract them!!

cormie

can you get a copy of that statute book anywhere? It would be handy to have. "actually officer if you look at section 5 you'll see there are circumstances where it is ok to overtake on the left" saying this before you look at the book as if you know the whole thing off:D

SouperComputer

weird but somtimes works: Indicate right.

Or left to drop a hint

ballooba

I always turn on my right indicator if someone is hogging the overtaking lane in front of me. I would rarely if ever flash the headlights. One of my friends was in the car with me one day when i did it and she started screaming at me that it was agressive driving.

I still do it. I presume it's perfectly legal to signal right when overtaking.

cargrouch

I've often wondered about making my next car a white D reg saloon, say mondeo vectra etc. Stick some extra aerials on it and wear a blue shirt. Obviously this would work better outside dublin where any such car should automatically make you think unmarked squad car. Flash the lights and the muppets should quickly get out of the way.

Then I realised the flaws
1)The muppets have to use their rear view.
2)Having done this, their puny minds must process the information and suspect that it may be a guard.
3) They must react in a sensible manner, ie not freak out and swing into someone else who has moved along side them while they were still working on step 2.
4) I'd look like a bit of a psycho obsessed with being a guard.

Anyone know if being a reserve garda will entitle you to pull em over and find some reason why the car isn't road worthy and must be towed back to the old folks home?

Mr Magnolia

SouperComputer wrote:

weird but somtimes works: Indicate right.

Or left to drop a hint

This has worked for me before (not often), but generally I think that people who are coasting along in the over-taking lane are oblivious to all around them.

colm_mcm

I just flash my headlights a bit, it usually works better if you keep a reasonable distance behind them, they'll be more likely to see you in their mirror, and they won't resent you for tailgating

Guy:Incognito

Regardless of whats going on in the outside lane, are you not perfectly entitled to drive at whatever (legal) speedyou like. I mean surely if the speed limit is 120 you can drive 120 regardles of what some tool is doing in the outsie lane, no?

Also, why were the gards not too busy pulling him for driving along at 100 in the overtaking lane to notice the guy undertaking?

Seth Brundle

cormie wrote:

can you get a copy of that statute book anywhere?

www.irishstatutebook.ie

unkel

Archeron wrote:

The copper said he was sending the case to the DPP and that this guy would be done for dangerous driving!!

It is illegal to undertake in those circumstances. Being done for dangerous driving for undertaking like you describe is ridiculous though imho :mad:

Stekelly wrote:

Also, why were the gards not too busy pulling him for driving along at 100 in the overtaking lane to notice the guy undertaking?

Indeed. It is those people that should be permanently removed from our roads first

The_Magoo wrote:

as he in the overtaking lane behind the OP, swerve in and undertake, or did he just stick to his lane and maintain his speed?

Makes no difference

Stekelly wrote:

Regardless of whats going on in the outside lane, are you not perfectly entitled to drive at whatever (legal) speedyou like. I mean surely if the speed limit is 120 you can drive 120 regardles of what some tool is doing in the outsie lane, no?

No. It is illegal to undertake that way

colm_mcm wrote:

I just flash my headlights a bit, it usually works better if you keep a reasonable distance behind them, they'll be more likely to see you in their mirror, and they won't resent you for tailgating

Same here. Works in up to half the cases. Use indicator sometimes, but doesn't seem effective. I do undertake too :

TheMonster

reading between the lines I would imagine it didn't happen as the OP suugests while it is illegal I doubt any cop would do you for dangerous driving for doing this - more than likely it was a weaving maneouvre and possible past a car doing the max.

Archeron

TheMonster wrote:

reading between the lines I would imagine it didn't happen as the OP suugests while it is illegal I doubt any cop would do you for dangerous driving for doing this - more than likely it was a weaving maneouvre and possible past a car doing the max.

OKay, I agree it may not have happened exactly as he said, but its good to get the jist of what people think of the reason he was TOLD he was being done. As regards doubting if a cop would do you for that, I think most guards are cool and do a great job, but I personally think there are some that would do it. I personally had my car taken off me while me and my g/f were on the way to my bosses wedding with the company wedding present because my tax was out 4 months. (OK, I know, serves me right for not paying my tax, but there was no need to be nasty, especially as a car hoored by at about 80mph while i stood there getting lectured, this was in Ballybough in Dublin)

HelterSkelter

unkel wrote:

No. It is illegal to undertake that way

So what happens if (and this has happened me before) I am in the left lane doing 120kmph, there is noone else in the left lane. There is some goon in the overtaking lane doing about 90kmh. Am I supposed to slow down to 90kmh once I reach him?

_Kaiser_

HelterSkelter wrote:

So what happens if (and this has happened me before) I am in the left lane doing 120kmph, there is noone else in the left lane. There is some goon in the overtaking lane doing about 90kmh. Am I supposed to slow down to 90kmh once I reach him?

As stupid as it sounds, yes

Alun

HelterSkelter wrote:

So what happens if (and this has happened me before) I am in the left lane doing 120kmph, there is noone else in the left lane. There is some goon in the overtaking lane doing about 90kmh. Am I supposed to slow down to 90kmh once I reach him?

This the real essence of the problem. By law, yes, you're supposed to do just that, and to make things worse, since being in the overtaking lane when the driving lane is empty is illegal, then to be legal yourself, you also have to be doing this 90 km/h in the inside lane, thus creating what is, in effect, a 90 km/h moving roadblock.

Since I have no intention of doing anything of the sort, I do what everyone else does, i.e. try and gain the attention of aforementioned goon and get him/her to move over, and if that fails, undertake as swiftly as possible.

unkel

HelterSkelter wrote:

So what happens if (and this has happened me before) I am in the left lane doing 120kmph, there is noone else in the left lane. There is some goon in the overtaking lane doing about 90kmh. Am I supposed to slow down to 90kmh once I reach him?

Worse. You have to slow down to below 90km/h because you should allow the goon to continue to overtake you :rolleyes: :mad: