were to put a dual rad on stacker ?

awhir

SyxPak wrote:

B][/B]size[B][/B]=0] sig text [[B][/B]/size[B][/B tbh tbh tbh tbh

{edit} was on phone when typing {/edit}

so what were you going to say.

and also whats a good 1 http://www.alphacool.de/xt/index.php/cPath/5_54_57/category/water-additives.html

po0k

forgot the =0

gline

this supposed to be good
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/3863/cPath/5_54_57/water-additives/wakz-water-additive-waterwetter-20ml-supercoolant.html/XTCsid/96eaa38a8e728e7412fa697edb241b99

awhir

will i need a t line when putting in a maze 4 at the moment its

Devices: (1) CPU cooler + (1) Radiator + Pump-reservoir assembly
Connect: Pump discharge to radiator inlet
Radiator discharge to CPU cooler inlet
CPU cooler discharge to reservoir inlet
Reservoir discharge to pump inlet – MANDATORY!

Cuddlesworth

T-line is for when you are using it as a res. Other wise just put the maze4 after the cpu on the loop. As for water additive Zerox tbh, with distilled water. You get the water at any auto-factors.

awhir

was reading some fourms and they said that distilled water and anti freez are the best souliton but were can i get antifreeze??

SyxPak do you know any shops in galway.

Drapper

awhir wrote:

was reading some fourms and they said that distilled water and anti freez are the best souliton but were can i get antifreeze??

SyxPak do you know any shops in galway.

antifreeze in car shop

awhir

ok got the anti-freeze and the distilled water all i have to do is wait for my maze 4 to come and its tube melting time again

jazzyb88

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

Conzy, that bingchi kit is rubbish. I saw a review where they said it was the worst WC kit they'd seen.

Hi,

I have recently been looking at one of those BingChi kits for €95.24 (£65) and wanted to know if you could provide a link to the review that said it was 'rubbish'?

I figured that in the worst case scenario, the pump would be the most likely thing to die out of the kits (1300lph, variable), right? Well i have seen Eheim replacements for €58.61 (£40) so it would cost me a total of €153.85 (£100) if i had to replace the pump in the kit. I figure that's still cheaper than getting an Alphacool/Asetek/Swiftech kit and as it would seem, the BingChi is pretty much a rip-off of the Asetek design with diamond ridged waterblocks etc. so it should be build to almost the same standard.

I wanted to know if you could spot any other potential problems with the kit?

Thanks in advance

Cuddlesworth

Can you provide a link for that kit, because all im getting from google is referances to water cooling corrosion systems.

jazzyb88

Yeah sure, look here

I know the bidding starts at £65, but i've seen two of these kits go without bids over the past month so i am confident i could get it for £65 or a little over that if i wanted.

Cuddlesworth

From what I can see, non-anodised aluminum radiator with copper blocks will cause massive corrosion in the loop. Pump is un-reliable, with non-existent gpm. Adding to that you have restrictive waterblocks will a bad milling process (quite hard to do right). Tbh you will get better temperatures with a high end air kit which will be cheaper, cause you less problems and will be easy to maintain.

conzy

jazzyb88 wrote:

Yeah sure, look here

I know the bidding starts at £65, but i've seen two of these kits go without bids over the past month so i am confident i could get it for £65 or a little over that if i wanted.

That kit actually looks pretty good, I think Krazy meant that the kit that mixes copper and steal is crap at it would corrode over time.......

Since those blocks have acrylic tops it should be ok.

Also it ships from England in 2-3 days for ~€16 delivery

Also note that he has it hooked up to a DFI lanparty and not some ****e board so he obviously has some faith in what he is selling

I may reconsider my water cooling venture if I could get a kit for €100

*edit* Delivery to Ireland is actually €40 and I just read Krazy's response so it may actually be a bit crap............

I would go for one of the cheaper alphacool solutions instead..........

jazzyb88

Thanks so far guys. I live in the UK and i can actually collect that item because i live about 14 miles away from the seller. I have spoken to a guy who runs his own extreme cooling shop and he thought that the kit would be okay but pump reliability could be an issue.

I am actually hoping to buy two kits for that low price and then buy some hard disk blocks for my server, obviously this all depends on whether the kit is any good or not.

I have seen some of the alphacool kits but thought i might be better off waiting and buying parts individually of eBay, if it came to that.

EDIT:

@krazy: The seller says in the auction that the rad has copper fins - do you still think it would corrode?

Pump reliability is something i thought about and will admit that is a legitimate issue but it is supposedly variable meaning i could run it at about 600 and hopefully it might last?

You mentioned restrictive water blocks, could you elaborate on what you meant?

Thanks

Cuddlesworth

"@krazy: The seller says in the auction that the rad has copper fins - do you still think it would corrode?"

Yes I do think it will, the fins dont touch the water the inside of the rad does. When you have aluminium and copper in the loop, the water becomes heavly ionised and corrodes the copper at a very fast rate. The water becomes acidic as well Eroding the plastic and tubing and seals on the quick connect fittings.

"Pump reliability is something i thought about and will admit that is a legitimate issue but it is supposedly variable meaning i could run it at about 600 and hopefully it might last?"

Cant answer that with any true exsperiance, but common sense says yes it would be less likley to break down.

"You mentioned restrictive water blocks, could you elaborate on what you meant?"

I suppose you would want to look at how water cooling is better than air cooling. Waters is able to absorb heat better than air, but more air can pass over a heatsink than water through a water-block.

So you have 2 schools of thought on the matter. Try to engineer the componants to get the best thermal-efficancy from the block, or force a large amount of water quickly through the system.

These trains of though have lead to the european side of things like alpha-cool with their small tubing, quiet and modest pumps and well designed water-blocks. They do about as well as a high end air kit, but are best suited to people going with a full setup on everything (*chipset, hard-drives, psu). Using these blocks on the loop, doesnt affect these kits tempertaures that bad as their was never a large amount of water flowing thorugh the loop anyway .

The american side of things is a single radiator, high performance block designed from the ground up to have lots of water pumped over the surface area of the block and a high powered pump with lots of a thing called gpm. To my understanding this a a measurment for how much pressure a pump can put into the loop.

To the scientific end of things, the American system has out and out shown itself to be the better set-up. To the fan boys its what ever they are using.

*chipset, hard-drives, psu- these blocks restrict the water flowing through the loop. As a result less water moves around per minute and less heat is removed form the waterblock.

I hope that gives you a better understanding of water-cooling but this is by no means all of what it entails. You can also look at radiator performance with low cfm fans, different block performance with different pumps and the use of additives in the system.

jazzyb88

Hi,

Thanks for the info on water cooling krazy. I have contacted the seller of the kit to ask whether the internals are actually aluminium, if so, i think the kit may prove to be unworthy.

I really want to make the transition to water cooling primarily to get a high overclock, but also for reduced noise. You also have to keep in mind that the heatsink/fan can only keep the processor as cool as the air it receives. In summer, the temperatures sky-rocket on air cooling and i think with a decent water cooling setup, i could avoid such a big jump in temps.

I suppose i will have to wait and see what the seller has to say.

Cuddlesworth

jazzyb88 wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the info on water cooling krazy. I have contacted the seller of the kit to ask whether the internals are actually aluminium, if so, i think the kit may prove to be unworthy.

I really want to make the transition to water cooling primarily to get a high overclock, but also for reduced noise. You also have to keep in mind that the heatsink/fan can only keep the processor as cool as the air it receives. In summer, the temperatures sky-rocket on air cooling and i think with a decent water cooling setup, i could avoid such a big jump in temps.

I suppose i will have to wait and see what the seller has to say.

All rads use aluminium, this rad doesnt put a coating on it to stop corrosion. Its also a single radiator, its not going to draw that much heat off the loop. A double would do you better.

Water-cooling gives you a good overlclock yes, but not by much. Its also dependent on the outside temps as well, so in summer the temps will rise like before. You wont see a big jump but you will see one.

I dont trust what the seller says, he wants to sell you something and will say what he thinks you want to hear.

DemonOfTheFall

I don't think that that kit would give you any better temperatures at all, probably even worse temperatures than a decent heatsink. a 1x120mm fan taking all the heat from your gfx,cpu and mobo would undoubtedly be worse than your current setup.

krazy : GPM stands for gallons per minute. It's the measure of how much water will flow per minute, if there is 0 resistance in the loop. Since there never will be zero resistance in the loop, it's not a very useful figure. A combination of Head and GPM is much more useful, since then you can figure out whether the pump will still actually be pushing any water when youve put a few water blocks in the way.

Cuddlesworth

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

krazy : GPM stands for gallons per minute. It's the measure of how much water will flow per minute, if there is 0 resistance in the loop. Since there never will be zero resistance in the loop, it's not a very useful figure. A combination of Head and GPM is much more useful, since then you can figure out whether the pump will still actually be pushing any water when youve put a few water blocks in the way.

Thanks for that, I'v been meaning to look it up.

jazzyb88

So would you guys suggest going for a custom build or Alphacool/Asetek/Swiffy?

Demon, are you on water or air cooling?

Thanks all!

EDIT: I was just thinking, would it not be possible to buy a dual 80mm rad and then mod to take 2x 120mm fans placed at an angle? - so they could fit on the rad. I have also been looking at some Mazda MX5 rads but they are €117 on their own!

Cuddlesworth

jazzyb88 wrote:

So would you guys suggest going for a custom build or Alphacool/Asetek/Swiffy?

In this order Alphacool, Asetek, Swifty and Custom build.

jazzyb88 wrote:

Demon, are you on water or air cooling?

Water, I think. I use a cutom kit.

jazzyb88 wrote:

EDIT: I was just thinking, would it not be possible to buy a dual 80mm rad and then mod to take 2x 120mm fans placed at an angle? - so they could fit on the rad. I have also been looking at some Mazda MX5 rads but they are €117 on their own!

Waste of money just buy a dual 120mil radiator.

jazzyb88

Okay, just out of interest, how much did your custom kit cost krazy?

Cuddlesworth

Its best not to ask that question, Im not even sure of it myself but it was a lot.

jazzyb88

Well i have seen this kit, but it only has a single rad. Dual rads come in at about €43.90 alone, that's why i thought it would be better going custom and getting 1/2" tubing as well.

If i could find a old car rad from the scrapyard the custom kit would save me money because i could mod the 1" connectors to take 1/2" tubing.

Cuddlesworth

Tell me something, if you had the choice between spending a small amount of money on a bad graphics card or a large amount of money on a good one and all you did was game, what would you spend the money on? Now apply that to water-cooling because its the exact same. You get what you pay for.

As for getting an old car rad, its hard to find one that works well with a pc setup. Hence most custom car rads in the states seem to be a certain type(bonnyville car or something). So you may be able to get a cheap rad and mod it but you still have no garrenties that it will be any good.

jazzyb88

I would definitely get the more expensive graphics card but i am hoping to buy two w/c kits for under €365.58 (£300)...and now you can see my dilemma. In order to get two, i have to find some way to save money or i suppose i should just buy one good one and have one PC still stuck on air.

Cuddlesworth

I would just get the swiftech kit and pick up some good heatsinks for the other kit.

jazzyb88

Well i was thinking of putting a Asetek kit with hard drive waterblocks on my server and perhaps just leaving my TT hsf on my main rig because i will be taking that one to university. I figure having a water cooling setup at university will be hard to maintain and transport about...unless i get shut-off valves, even then i would have to bleed the system before i could bring it back home and forth.

awhir

amm £300 is like 450euro not 365.

conzy

Well, if your budget is that big......

Get the Swiftech H20-220 Apex "Ultra" kit from Overclockers.co.uk

And the Swiftech MCW60 from Overclockers.co.uk

And get the Swiftech MCW30 chipset cooler if you want, but It will probably kill the preassure in the loop......