Green Babies

Ayla

My husband and I are expecting our first in November of this year, and we're both really interested in using products/methods that are as environmentally-friendly as possible.

Specifically, we're foregoing the buggy for a wrap (baby-carrier), and I've done a lot of research to find out as much info as possible about the different wraps & slings out there. I'm wondering if anyone has personal experiences with a specific product that they'd recommend?

Also, we're going to try the cloth/reusable nappies since they've evolved in convenience and effectiveness in the last generation. Any suggestions for good products here?

eiretamicha

Hi Ayla,

First of all, congratulations!! You and your husband must be so excited!!

Second of all, hello to a fellow future green-parent!! My husband and I will be cosleeping, attachment parenting, cloth-diapering, no vaxing, and natural parenting...and I will be exclusively breastfeeding and allowing my child to wean him/herself. It's nice to find someone on here with some of the same goals!

As we're not parents yet, I can only offer helpful suggestions that we plan on taking into account once our first is born. Here are some handy links that you might find useful.

General Information
Diaper Pin
Attachement Parenting International
The Natural Child Project

Wraps & Slings
The MeiTai Carrier
The Kangaroo Sling
The Moby Wrap

Good luck with your search!! Also, keep us posted on how everything works out...I'm still in the states and won't be having my first baby until we move back to Ireland, so I'd be very interested in hearing where you end up buying your natural-parenting items.

Victor

Ayla wrote:

Also, we're going to try the cloth/reusable nappies since they've evolved in convenience and effectiveness in the last generation. Any suggestions for good products here?

There are suggestions that cloth nappies aren't much better than diosposable ones, because of the energy used in waching & soap powders etc.

No doubt put about by the manufacturers of diosposable one nappies.

eiretamicha

Victor wrote:

There are suggestions that cloth nappies aren't much better than diosposable ones, because of the energy used in waching & soap powders etc.

No doubt put about by the manufacturers of diosposable one nappies.

Even if that were so, one simply can't compare gentle cotton or hemp to harsh, abrasive paper and plastic when it comes to delicate areas of your baby's skin.

EcologiKids

Actually Victor, I've just completed a comprehensive piece of research with the women's enviornmental network in the UK and the cost of washing, washing powder, washing machine depreciation and the cloth nappies still SERIOUSLY outweighs the costs of using and disposing of disposable nappies - by over 1000 euros minimum.

please see here for the research

http://www.wen.org.uk/nappies/cost_comparison_ie.htm

wraps:
suggestions: go to www.thebabywearer.com to get great information on supplier and products for babywearing. stretchy wraps are great for newborns and are really comfortable for distributing the weight of baby as they get bigger. ring slings rest on one shoulder only and are easy to put on and off - maya ring sling is fabulous and fairly traded/made materials.

nappies: there are cloth nappy companies in Ireland - you don't have to go abroad to get them (dare I say it but I run one myself).

I would advise tots bots bamboozles for nighttime as they are natural, eco friendly and highly absorbent. they're made from bamboo (as the name suggests).
for daytime you could use a lighter hemp material if you're looking to stay natural (something like ellas house hemp nappies are great or there is an Irish made hemp nappy available on the market as well - don't want to advertise my website as it's against the rules but you can pm me if you like).

wool wraps are fab for nighttime and are 100% natural and breathable.

if you want any more advice in choosing some nappies just pm me.

Also, there was an attachment parenting conference on in maynooth just last month - did anyone go to it? it was really great and the Sears were here too!

and I love this saying: I make milk: what's your superpower?

hth
Nicky

EcologiKids

oh also wanted to add that there is now finally an Irish based online company selling slings and wraps etc. it's

www.babyslingsandoutdoorthings.com

great that we're starting to get more natural parenting products here in Ireland!
nicky

nlgbbbblth

Sling: We use a sling which came from the USA (present from sister-in-law). Very handy when shopping and doing routine household stuff. Baby is close to your heartbeat and is generally restful.
Pram / buggy is handy for walks though.

Cloth nappies: We ordered a supply (12 plus liners which can be flushed down the toilet) from a website based in Cork. Will post up webaddress later. Our son is just over two months old and they're still slightly big for him so we're stuck on disposables. He should have gained sufficient weight within a few weeks so we can start using the washable ones.

Breast-feeding: My wife has fed Matthew since birth and it is going well. He seems to prefer sucking through the nipple shield though.

Co-sleeping: He slept with us for the first two months but we have now bought him a cot and he went into it on Tuesday night. The cot is beside our bed as we don't plan on moving it into his bedroom for another three to four months.

lynski

good to know we are not alone.
we are planning to go the cloth nappy route too (due in october) and would like to use natural baby products as well (neals yard or organic baby brand in Tescos, can't rem its name).
Also saw and liked the soap nuts, anyone used them?
the one fly in the ointment is well meaning friends and relatives buy c**p, I mean gifts, for us. I am thinking of a specific gift list and I know the lack of a christening will put some of the them off, anyone else got ideas?

telecaster

lynski wrote:

the one fly in the ointment is well meaning friends and relatives buy c**p, I mean gifts, for us. I am thinking of a specific gift list and I know the lack of a christening will put some of the them off, anyone else got ideas?

Yes, we're laughing (me and mum to be) reading your post as are giving the Christening a swerve too...the announcement of which almost caused us to be going to a funeral with my mother's shock. And we're also expecting a lot of crappy noisy plastic toys too. WOO-HOO

Ickle Magoo

OP,

I use two carriers, a Wilkinet & a Mothercare one.....

RE cloth nappies, I use a mixture of fuzzi bunz, tots bots, fluffles and bamboozles on my two, with disposable liners....try contacting Maebh at http://www.thenaturalbabyresource.com

Not only does she sell the nappies but she has mums all round the country that can do nappy demo's for you or you can meet up at a "Nappuchino"! There are loads of green products on the site, too....another good site for natural parenting is http://www.thebabyorchard.com/

Good luck with everything....we planned to have a co-sleeping/breastfed/etc baby but due to circumstances outwith our control it didn't quite work out that way! lol! Hope it works out for you!

susiesue

eiretamicha wrote:

Hi Ayla,



" My husband and I will be cosleeping, attachment parenting, cloth-diapering, no vaxing, and natural parenting...and I will be exclusively breastfeeding and allowing my child to wean him/herself. It's nice to find someone on here with some of the same goals!



This has to be a joke, As a tired mum of three I wish you good luck, take a sneaky peeky at Viz - the new Age Parents.

eiretamicha

susiesue wrote:

eiretamicha wrote:

Hi Ayla,



" My husband and I will be cosleeping, attachment parenting, cloth-diapering, no vaxing, and natural parenting...and I will be exclusively breastfeeding and allowing my child to wean him/herself. It's nice to find someone on here with some of the same goals!

This has to be a joke, As a tired mum of three I wish you good luck, take a sneaky peeky at Viz - the new Age Parents.

Different strokes for different folks, Love. I don't impose my views on anyone, I just live my life the way I feel is best for myself and my family.

Take a look at some of the links I posted earlier, or even the Natural Family community on LiveJournal and Mothering.com. Many natural-parenting mothers, along with myself, are quite used to comments like yours. We can choose to either ignore them, or use them to spread awareness.

I'm confused, however, at which part of my comment you feel to be a joke. The cosleeping? The baby-wearing? The cloth-diapering? The no vaccinating? Or perhaps the exclusive breastfeeding and child-led weaning? Oh goodness, I forgot to mention homeschooling - Waldorf style and unschooling.

I suppose you'll also be shocked to hear that I'm an advocate of homebirth and unassisted birth. Most people are.

And none of this has anything to do with new-age parenting. In fact, this way of parenting is as old as the hills.

Nevyn

Hi there susiesue,
welcome to the parenting forum one of many different forums that make up the collective that is boards.ie.

I suggest that you take the time to read the charter for this forum which can be found here.
And I woud also suggest that you read the FAQ for the site.

There ane many different ways to rear children and what suits one family and their children will not suit everyone.

Torak

Ayla wrote:

Specifically, we're foregoing the buggy for a wrap (baby-carrier)

Hi there,

Good luck with the parenting, its a joy and I hope that it goes well for you! I hope you have many happy years.

If I could ask a question though. How exactly is a wrap "greener" than a buggy? Its not that I don't believe you I have just never considered it.

Is it something to do with keeping the baby close to you?

Ayla

Torak wrote:

How exactly is a wrap "greener" than a buggy?

Hi Torak,

Thanks for your good wishes. Yours is a great question, and I'll do my best to answer it.

As far as being "greener" I suppose that's arguable. That boils down to the environmental impact of creating, distributing and disposing of the plastics, rubbers, cloths, etc that goes into the making of a buggy. All that instead of a cloth wrap that can be made in a sustainable way, and even made by an old bedsheet. Those are the standard "green" arguments.

All of that's important, but I suppose my decision to use a wrap instead of buggy is really because I find buggy's so awkward to use...trying to get through doors, up steps, down a crowded sidewalk. Not to mention getting the thing in and out of whatever car you have. Now, I can see the usefulness of them if you're out for a long day, etc., but for daily usage and just bouncing around town, I think it's just simpler to wrap your baby against you and take off.

The most important reason for me in choosing a wrap, though, is just that I will be exclusively breastfeeding (all going well) and it's incredibly simple to do that in a wrap. In fact, it's well recorded that women can walk down the road, stand in a crowd and hold conversations and no one around them knows they're feeding the wee one.

I also like the idea of having my little one against me, knowing they're safe, feeling their breathing, knowing when they sleep and wake up. The argument's also out there that "worn" babies are much quieter and calmer b/c they have the constant comfort of hearing a heartbeat, etc (all of which they're used to from the womb). That makes sense to me, and I'm going to give the wrap a good try.

susiesue

Sorry I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone, I have three children under 5 and certain things like co sleeping happen whether I want it or not. Having a new baby is exhausting and some of those suggestions would drive most new mums off the rails completly. I hope it works out for you. I was full of ideas before my children were born, somethings through no fault of my own did not work out. I think its important not too set out too many expectations for yourself, for instance breastfeeding did not work out for me, and that broke my heart, and the baby sling nearly broke my back, I still need physio for very painful trapped siatic nerves.

I'm all for being green, but I value my sanity so I just try to do what best for us all as a family

If you would like to ask me anything( I'm sure you won't) feel free.

Best of luck again

Nevyn

Ouch poor you susiesue

3 under 5 must be rough. I had terrible issues with my back during and after having my second and the post natal depression was a bitch.
Babies aren't all bliss and cuddles they are hard work.

susiesue

They would drive you to drink, but they are worth it, I went on a bit of a rant yesterday, ( sorry green mammys) - nappies feeding, fighting, more nappies feeding and fighting thats the way my day goes. The sciatia was bad, just down my left leg, I had it for 3 months after the birth of my last, and I just could not walk. I was depressed also but I never told anyone at all, the health nurse copped it though, and she is great. My mind was a mess. I was completly convinced I had brought the wrong baby home - this went on for months, I kinda laugh about it now.

I'm new to this site so I hope to be joining in the chat every so often.

Ayla

susiesue wrote:

I'm new to this site so I hope to be joining in the chat every so often.

Well, welcome susiesue. As you said earlier, I agree that's it important to keep an open mind about what our parenting experiences will be like. I have tons of dreams and ideas about how I'm going to be a "supermom," but I know my visions are probably quite far from the reality of spit-up, babies running around nappiless and messing everywhere, and just general chaos.

As I'm not due till Nov, I'm hoping by starting this chat that I can prepare myself as much as possible, and hopefully meet some of my idealogical dreams. Babies are hard work (anyone saying otherwise is extremely blessed), and I know it won't all be picture-perfect. And of course some dreams get compromised if the reality forces it. But if all goes well, everyone wakes up in the morning, makes it through the day, and goes to bed happy. Everything else is just details...

susiesue

When my gran came to my house after my first baby was born, she was astounded by all the baby equipment and junk in the room, she said look as long as a baby is fed, clean and warm they are happy, and her 6 children all slept in a bottom drawer as new borns!!!

eiretamicha

susiesue wrote:

When my gran came to my house after my first baby was born, she was astounded by all the baby equipment and junk in the room, she said look as long as a baby is fed, clean and warm they are happy, and her 6 children all slept in a bottom drawer as new borns!!!

Quite a few of my husband's siblings also slept in bottom drawers when the need arose! I agree with your gran; a fed, clean, and warm baby is a happy baby!

susiesue, do you mind me asking what happened with the breastfeeding? I know quite a few mothers who were not given any support with breastfeeding, and finally gave in to the stresses and pressure to formula-feed. It was heart-breaking for them.

Also, welcome! I also was on a rant seemingly all day yesterday (here and in the animals/pets forum!), and I apologize for that. Maybe it was the moon.

susiesue

Cracked and painful nipples were the main problem, I gave in very easybecause I was so tired aswell.

Nevyn

Ouch, did no one recamend nipple shields to you ?

susiesue

Yes but I somehow thought I wouldn't need them and then when I got weep/tired it just seemed like such a relief to hand the bottle to hubby and say here you do it.

Ayla

I've checked out www.thenappylady.co.uk and gotten some great free advice from their nappy consultants re: reusables. They really break down some of the jargon and offer personalized advice for your life/work/personal situations. They also have a fantastic 20 pg document that you can print out that walks you through the care, usage, etc of resuables.

On another note, does anyone know where I can actually see/try on any slings/wraps in the Donegal area?

The Hill Billy

eiretamicha wrote:

I know quite a few mothers who were not given any support with breastfeeding, and finally gave in to the stresses and pressure to formula-feed. It was heart-breaking for them.

If you don't mind a Dad butting in here...

My wife tried breast-feeding our lad & it didn't work out.

While there was support offered in the hospital & by the district nurse - it was the kind of "support" (in both instances) that made my wife feel like a bad mother because it wasn't working out despite her best & continued efforts. If mother & child take to breast-feeding - great! If not, they should not be made feel guilty.

The stresses & pressure that these people put my wife under was completely OTT. It was hard enough for her to go through the daunting experience of having her first child without the Breast-Feeding Nazi's giving her a hard time.

(That comment is in no way directed at the other wonderful, wonderful staff in NMH who looked after my wife & child so well.)


Best of luck to you all with your respective pregnancies & kids!

Carb

Hill Billy wrote:

If you don't mind a Dad butting in here...

My wife tried breast-feeding our lad & it didn't work out.

While there was support offered in the hospital & by the district nurse - it was the kind of "support" (in both instances) that made my wife feel like a bad mother because it wasn't working out despite her best & continued efforts. If mother & child take to breast-feeding - great! If not, they should not be made feel guilty.

The stresses & pressure that these people put my wife under was completely OTT. It was hard enough for her to go through the daunting experience of having her first child without the Breast-Feeding Nazi's giving her a hard time.

(That comment is in no way directed at the other wonderful, wonderful staff in NMH who looked after my wife & child so well.)


Best of luck to you all with your respective pregnancies & kids!

I would have to report a similiar experience, although the only pressure that was put on us was by ourselves, as we wanted to do the best we could for our son. Giving up felt like we were letting him down.

We too had great support from the midwives in the hospital, and those that done the home visits it the subsequent days, when it came to breastfeeding. There was no pressure put on us by them. However, you quickly learn that this support is not there when the child is screaming at four o'clock in the morning and you can't get the child to latch on. After two days, and two nights of this, we resorted to the bottle. There was enough pressure attached to been a first time parent, without having to worry about whether the child was getting fed enough, which I doubt he was.

OP - I suppose my point is that the best intentions in the world prior to the birth can quickly go out the window when reality kicks in. Breastfeeing does work out for some people, it doesn't for others. If your own mother or mother in law breast fed, their help and support in the first week or so would be a great benefit.

Best of luck with your plans anyway. I hope they work out.

Nevyn

There are breast feeding suport groups out there check with the baby nurse in your area and they are not all scarey.

dame

Hi there OP,

Congratulations and best of luck everything! I agree totally with wraps etc. Husband still uses carrier for our daughter on very long walks. She's 2 1/2 now so obviously walks herself most of the time but for very long walks (few miles or more) he still uses the big backpack type carrier that we got for her in the great outdoors when she outgrew the baby carriers. She loves it!

However, I noticed something in Eiretamicha's first reply posted here which concerned me. It was the "no vaxing" bit that worried me. Our daughter has got all her vaccinations so far. We asked the doctor if he had given them to his own kids (he has 5) and he said "yes, but he has read all the research and wouldn't give his kids anything he thought might harm them". I think that with the measles etc coming back in clusters around the country that it would be fool-hardy not to vaccinate a child. Polio and all these other diseases have been drastically reduced in Ireland and other developed countries over the past few decades but if parents start refusing vaccinations then these diseases could become common again. Your child is far likelier to get measles than to get any bad effect from being vaccinated.

Something to think about.

Hobbes

eiretamicha wrote:

Even if that were so, one simply can't compare gentle cotton or hemp to harsh, abrasive paper and plastic when it comes to delicate areas of your baby's skin.

I'd agree with you maybe 20 years ago, but modern day nappies aren't harsh at all. The plastic pants you have to put on top of the normal nappy is more likely to be more painful.

cloth nappies still SERIOUSLY outweighs the costs of using and disposing of disposable nappies - by over 1000 euros minimum.

You should really pick a site that isn't biased to begin with. For example they picked an expensive price of 31.7 cents. You can get nappies around that price but you can also get them around 14 cents if you buy in bulk (and they are the good nappies).

In fact the average is more like 20 cents (based on going through tesco.ie ).

Here is what they say..


At an average six changes per day at 31.7 cents per nappy this equates to an average cost of €13.31 per week, and an overall spend of €1730.30 over 2.5 years..

However if you were to buy at 14 cents then per week is 5.88 euros and approx 763 euros over 2.5 years. Only a 100 in the difference now.

If we go by the average based on tesco.ie (20 cents) then its 8.40 euros a week and about 1091 euros after 2.5 years.

so yes it can be expensive if you buy the insanely expensive nappies to begin with and then factor in how much your time is worth having to deal with disposible nappies vs real ones.

The Hill Billy

Nice piece of investigative analysis Hobbes. The impression that I get is that the poster wishes to do good for the environment regardless of the cost. Fair dues to them, my wife & I also considered it & with a little bit of forethough decided "Fcek it! We'll have enough sh1t to be dealing with getting used to the new baby without having to save the world too."

I think that Carb hit the nail on the head:

Carb wrote:

I suppose my point is that the best intentions in the world prior to the birth can quickly go out the window when reality kicks in.

Still - It is nice to dream...