Green Babies

Ayla

Can I just take a moment to get us back on topic?

I started this post asking for anyone who's had specific experiences with wraps/slings and reusable nappies. I was asking for their advices on specific products to try.

Although I appreciate and have learned a good deal from everyone's replies re: breastfeeding, the cost factors of reusables, etc, the way I see it, everyone has their own experiences. No two are alike, and everyone has different opinions and information. That's the joy of parenthood.

But I'd still love to hear if anyone's ever actually experienced slings/wraps & reusables. What products did you try and did you benefit from the experience?

Another thought...

Maybe we can start another thread to debate the factors involved in using reusables? I am interested to hear the figures out there, I just think it'd be best on another thread.

Ickle Magoo

Ayala, I use cloth nappies on both my kids & I have several different slings - it would take me days to write down all the different kinds of nappies & the pro's & cons of using them....is there anything specific you would like to know? You can pm me if you would find that easier....:)

m_stan

Haven't read the whole thread here so don't know for sure if this has been mentioned yet, but wanted to suggest EcoBaby - they have all sorts of stuff from eco-friendly disposable nappies to organic food products. They deliver to your door.

Misty Moon

Don't have any children so can't contribute much to this thread. There is a woman who has a stall at the market in Marlay Park on Saturdays - if you are anywhere near there it might be interesting to call in and have a look and a chat.

Someone mentioned soap nuts - I assume these are what I know as soap pods? I've used them for a good while now and find them great. Don't have any stinky nappies to be washing though so don't know how they'd cope with that. Again, there's a guy with a stall in Marlay Park on Saturdays (and a permanent shop in Windy Arbour, Dundrum called EcoLogic) who's a great source of information and advice.

I remember years ago on another discussion board (think it was ivenus.com) someone mentioning a nappy service which collects your dirty nappies and leaves you new ones or possibly provided compostable nappies and arranged collection of the dirty ones each week and transferred them to a composting facility somewhere. Sorry to be so vague and not be giving you any direct experience but once you know something may exist I find you tend to hear about it from other people too.

You've probably already heard about it but I believe the forums on rollercoaster.ie are also very useful.

Hobbes

Hill Billy wrote:

Nice piece of investigative analysis Hobbes.

Its a bad habit I have from other forums. When someone cites something I tend to cross check.

The impression that I get is that the poster wishes to do good for the environment regardless of the cost.

Noble cause. I had a rummage around and the general consensus is that cloth diapers take up less space in a landfill. but waste more resources over thier lifecycle use (most notably water). Costs tend to be on average the same overall.

Note: Nothing can biodegrade in a landfill, so all this safer for the environment is meaningless unless your composting the nappies yourself.

The only thing I could find that may put one over the other is a study done by German scientists that noted that disposables may have an effect on sperm production at a later life (source), however before anyone starts citing that as Gospel they do ask for more research to be conducted for it to be conclusive.

Misty Moon wrote:

I remember years ago on another discussion board (think it was ivenus.com) someone mentioning a nappy service which collects your dirty nappies and leaves you new ones or possibly provided compostable nappies and arranged collection of the dirty ones each week and transferred them to a composting facility somewhere. Sorry to be so vague and not be giving you any direct experience but once you know something may exist I find you tend to hear about it from other people too.

I think if you are going the green route this sounds the best.

eiretamicha

dame wrote:

However, I noticed something in Eiretamicha's first reply posted here which concerned me. It was the "no vaxing" bit that worried me. Our daughter has got all her vaccinations so far. We asked the doctor if he had given them to his own kids (he has 5) and he said "yes, but he has read all the research and wouldn't give his kids anything he thought might harm them". I think that with the measles etc coming back in clusters around the country that it would be fool-hardy not to vaccinate a child. Polio and all these other diseases have been drastically reduced in Ireland and other developed countries over the past few decades but if parents start refusing vaccinations then these diseases could become common again. Your child is far likelier to get measles than to get any bad effect from being vaccinated.

Something to think about.

Choosing to vaccinate your child is a very personal decision that can only be made in good faith after strenuous research. My husband and I have decided not to get our children vaccinated, as we believe it is in our children's best health interest. Parents who decide to vaccinate their children still get the same level of respect from me as those who don't, as long as they have done their research and believe it to be in their child's best interest.

Nevyn

ok if we are going to start the vaccination disscusion again please start a new thread.

eiretamicha

Hobbes wrote:

I'd agree with you maybe 20 years ago, but modern day nappies aren't harsh at all. The plastic pants you have to put on top of the normal nappy is more likely to be more painful.

Not all cloth diapers require plastic covers.

Modern day disposables ARE much more harsh than their soft, cloth counterparts. Most disposables contain a chemical-based gel that many infants are allergic to. I know many mothers personally who could not get their infant's diaper rash to go away until they switched to cloth diapers.

This website is very pro-cloth, but it does present some unbiased cloth vs. disposables debates. Have a read, if you're interested.

Hobbes

eiretamicha wrote:

Most disposables contain a chemical-based gel that many infants are allergic to.

You are referring to Sodium polyacrylate. While there may be some children allergic to it, the majority there has been no major effect on people. The only exception is it was removed from tampons due to toxic shock syndrome but has had no servere reported effects outside of the body. (ref: Proctor and Gamble labs).

Funnily enough the pro-cloth sites also quote slight bits of the proctor and gamble report.

That link you gave looks like a spam site, all the links on the page have links to other sites with vendor ids on them.

eiretamicha

Hobbes wrote:

You are referring to Sodium polyacrylate. While there may be some children allergic to it, the majority there has been no major effect on people. The only exception is it was removed from tampons due to toxic shock syndrome but has had no servere reported effects outside of the body. (ref: Proctor and Gamble labs).

Funnily enough the pro-cloth sites also quote slight bits of the proctor and gamble report.

That link you gave looks like a spam site, all the links on the page have links to other sites with vendor ids on them.

I'm sorry, but how is it a spam site? It's from diaperpin.com, a well-known cloth diapering store and website. The link I gave you (Cut of Cloth, part of diaperpin.com) lists many articles that are well-worth reading for anyone interested in cloth diapering. Yes, there are links to vendors that sell cloth diapers...is that a bad thing? I did warn that the site was pro-cloth. I'm not sure where the problem here lies.

I'm not sure if I posted this link earlier, but if you haven't read it already, you might want to take a look. It is an essay written by a cloth-diapering parent that is well-written and lists lots of facts about cloth-diapers.

Hobbes

eiretamicha wrote:

I'm sorry, but how is it a spam site?

Because the majority of the links on the site link off to other sites with referral IDs, which means you click on the link they get paid while not actually giving you any real information. There is information on the site, but then most referral spam sites do the same thing. Your earlier link did the same thing

but if you haven't read it already, you might want to take a look.

I've already read a number of scientific reports that did comparisons. The finding is that there is no real difference between the two, and if your doing it for green reasons you need to be composting the nappies and not sending them to a landfill.

Linking to a blog while intresting is hardly a reliable source of information.

eiretamicha

Hobbes wrote:

Because the majority of the links on the site link off to other sites with referral IDs, which means you click on the link they get paid while not actually giving you any real information. There is information on the site, but then most referral spam sites do the same thing. Your earlier link did the same thing



I've already read a number of scientific reports that did comparisons. The finding is that there is no real difference between the two, and if your doing it for green reasons you need to be composting the nappies and not sending them to a landfill.

Linking to a blog while intresting is hardly a reliable source of information.

I don't believe you can discredit a site with useful information simply because there are links to other sites where you can purchase items.

In regards to the link to that parent's blog, I did say that it was an essay written by a parent. *shrug* There are also links in her essay to other reliable sources of information.

I'm choosing to cloth diaper my children, and will be making my own out of second-hand fabric purchased from other people or at thrift stores and/or out of organic cotton and hemp fabric. I will be using baking soda and vinegar to wash the diapers, as well (no harsh chemical detergents for me). These diapers will be used over and over again with each child that I have (I'm planning on four). If you're trying to tell me that the impact on the environment is going to be the same whether I use cloth or disposables, (let's see...four children equals a gazillion disposables throughout their diaper years, whereas I could get by with with with only a handful of cloth that can be reused until they fall apart...and we DO compost, btw ), then I believe you might want to do a bit of extra research into the production methods of natural, organic cloth (for those so inclined to use it) versus the production methods of your general disposable diaper.

Brian Capture

eiretamicha wrote:

I
I'm choosing to cloth diaper my children, and will be making my own out of second-hand fabric purchased from other people or at thrift stores and/or out of organic cotton and hemp fabric. I will be using baking soda and vinegar to wash the diapers, as well (no harsh chemical detergents for me). These diapers will be used over and over again with each child that I have (I'm planning on four).

You're so cool.

You're so cool.

You're so cool.

Nevyn

Brian Capture was there a point to you post ?

eiretamicha

Brian Capture wrote:

You're so cool.

You're so cool.

You're so cool.

I know!

In all seriousness, I wasn't bragging (though when I read that part that you quoted, it does seem that way), I was simply trying to make a point of "this is what I'm doing and this is why I'm doing it". *shrug*

Brian Capture

Thaedydal wrote:

Brian Capture was there a point to you post ?

The same point quoted thrice for emphasis.

Ayla

Eiretamicha -

I have always valued your opinions, and I look forward to reading your (as well as everyone else's) posts, but could you move your nappy discussion to the resuable vs. disposable thread that I started yesterday?

I wasn't intending this thread to be a debate (and I'm sure your comments weren't intended to begin them either), but more of a reference/recommendation thread for specific brands and products.

Btw, this comment also goes out there to all of you others who've contributed to the nappy debate.

Let's get the debate going in the reusable vs. disposable thread

Also, Brian Capture,

From your message to Eiretamicha and your signature, it seems to me that you have a habit of "quoting thrice for emphasis".

But perhaps this isn't really the place for it? No one needs the hassle of sarcasm in this discussion...we're all here to build off each other, not knock anyone down.

Just a suggestion...

Hobbes

eiretamicha wrote:

then I believe you might want to do a bit of extra research into the production methods of natural, organic cloth (for those so inclined to use it) versus the production methods of your general disposable diaper.

Like I said I have already read the scientific reports on it. The verdict is there is not much difference.

eiretamicha

Ayla wrote:

Eiretamicha -

I have always valued your opinions, and I look forward to reading your (as well as everyone else's) posts, but could you move your nappy discussion to the resuable vs. disposable thread that I started yesterday?

I wasn't intending this thread to be a debate (and I'm sure your comments weren't intended to begin them either), but more of a reference/recommendation thread for specific brands and products.

Oops! Sorry, I didn't notice the other thread yesterday! I apologize.

bandraoi

Wraps, slings etc. are wonderful for newborns but once the baby gets a bit bigger you're going to need a buggy if you plan to leave the house with it at all.

mayhem#

susiesue wrote:

eiretamicha wrote:

Hi Ayla,



" My husband and I will be cosleeping, attachment parenting, cloth-diapering, no vaxing, and natural parenting...and I will be exclusively breastfeeding and allowing my child to wean him/herself. It's nice to find someone on here with some of the same goals!



This has to be a joke, As a tired mum of three I wish you good luck, take a sneaky peeky at Viz - the new Age Parents.

Try that with 5 kids....
You people have too much spare time on your hands.

E.

Ayla

bandraoi wrote:

Wraps, slings etc. are wonderful for newborns but once the baby gets a bit bigger you're going to need a buggy if you plan to leave the house with it at all.

Bandraoi -

Have you ever tried on a sling and/or wrap? They are used worldwide by folks who wear their toddlers (and kids up to age 2 or so) while they do manual work all day. The wraps and slings have developed in such a way that they are incredibly comfortable and distribute the weight across the body as to nearly eliminate any strain caused by the child's weight.

So my question to you is "does your comment come by your impression or experience?"

Then to mayhem# -

I think if you read through this entire forum you'd see that we're all here to offer our experiences and advice, not to undermine what anyone is trying to do. Therefore, (I may not be a moderator), but I'd suggest you keep your comments like "you people have too much time on your hands" to yourself. Just because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't for someone else.

And to everyone else - Happy Monday morning

Ickle Magoo

bandraoi, my 18month old fits comfortably (for both him & I) in a sling....he will for the consirderable future...as Ayla says, it's all about choosing the right sling/carrier.

mayhem# wrote:

Try that with 5 kids....
You people have too much spare time on your hands.

E.

Some people choose when they wish to try to conceive, either through natural methods or contraception. That way, they are able to leave big enough gaps between children to use the attatchment-parenting techniques on all.

mayhem#

Ickle Magoo wrote:

Some people choose when they wish to try to conceive, either through natural methods or contraception. That way, they are able to leave big enough gaps between children to use the attatchment-parenting techniques on all.

"attachement parenting" wtf?!
Proves my point; if you have time to make up fancy names for just raising your kids in a good, responsible manner than you DO have too much spare time on your hands....

E.

Ickle Magoo

mayhem# wrote:

"attachement parenting" wtf?!
Proves my point; if you have time to make up fancy names for just raising your kids in a good, responsible manner than you DO have too much spare time on your hands....

E.

It's not a made up name & not made up by me.....incidentally I don't follow most attachment parenting techniques but I am still aware of the concept. Just because you have never heard of it does not mean that it has been made up! It's sad that you are driven to ridicule others & assume they have too much time on their hands because they approach parenting from a different direction and use terminology that you don't know.

There are hundreds of recognised forms of parenting, discipline, education, etc - it just makes it easier to discuss with others when you can use a recognised collective term rather than continually list the most common aspects. I don't know why my spare time is such an issue with you either. I did the majority of my reading/studying & questioning of parenting methods/techniques before I had children - when I had plenty of spare time

Ayla

Ickle Magoo wrote:

It's sad that you are driven to ridicule others & assume they have too much time on their hands because they approach parenting from a different direction and use terminology that you don't know.

Ickle - Well said. Like I've been trying (rather unsuccessfully) to explain to our new friend mayhem#, any type of sarcasm or derogatory comments really aren't needed or appreciated here. If they continue, I'll suggest they be banned from this forum.

mayhem#

What I just find surprising is the amount of people who find it neccesary to study or read up on parenting skills.
Whats wrong with following your own instincts. Are you that much out of touch?
having babies and raising them is something that has been done for thousands of years yet only lately do people feel the need to look for outside advice on something that should be so natural.
I think it is probably a sign of the society we live in....

E.

Ickle Magoo

mayhem# wrote:

What I just find surprising is the amount of people who find it neccesary to study or read up on parenting skills.
Whats wrong with following your own instincts. Are you that much out of touch?
having babies and raising them is something that has been done for thousands of years yet only lately do people feel the need to look for outside advice on something that should be so natural.
I think it is probably a sign of the society we live in....

E.

It's not necesarry - I could easily have approached parenthood without opening so much as a book on the subject but as I have the resources to hand it seemed churlish not to take full advantage. I prefer to think that reading about the tried & tested methods of parenting made/makes me better equiped to tackle the wide variety of challenges that raising children presents rather than considering myself in any way lacking as a parent. We aren't born with parenting skills so I disagree it is "so natural", like any other skill it requires learning. We learn parenting skills through our experiences of being parented & parenting our own children. As far as I am concerned reading/surfing/classes/etc are all ways of increasing the knowledge and therefor the skills we have.

I'd hazzard a guess that thousand of years ago very few people had access to libraries & the internet but if they had then there would be as much info on parenting being accessed then as there is now - isn't progress great!

eiretamicha

mayhem# wrote:

What I just find surprising is the amount of people who find it neccesary to study or read up on parenting skills.
Whats wrong with following your own instincts. Are you that much out of touch?
having babies and raising them is something that has been done for thousands of years yet only lately do people feel the need to look for outside advice on something that should be so natural.
I think it is probably a sign of the society we live in....

E.

My instincts tell me to research everything I possibly can because in today's society, true knowledge is hard to come by. I don't have a grandmother and a bunch of wise women to ask when I have questions about parenting, so I read, read, read...and read some more. And this has nothing to do with "having too much time on my hands" as is evidenced by my full-time job and trying to spend some time with the hubster when I get home.

My best friend in the world got pregnant at 18 and didn't care to even crack a book or ask an experienced mother a single question about pregnancy and birth. She just "followed her instincts"--which meant following what everyone else does. Therefore, she birthed in the hospital, got an epidural and an episiotomy, allowed her child to be pricked and poked, brought her child to the well-child doctor visits where her vaccines were administered, put her child to sleep in a crib in a closed off room while she slept in the living room, and never even attempted breastfeeding because no one else in her family ever did it and she thought it was "gross". She's also been talking about scheduling a C-section for her next baby's birth because it's so convenient.

I don't ridicule my best friend's parenting because she's my best friend and I love her, but my instincts tell me there is a better and simpler way. However, in today's society, instincts aren't enough. People criticise and ridicule "instinct" when it goes against the norm, and tell you you should follow the doctor's orders. So we, the strange, crazy, new-age hippies who "have too much time on our hands" research EVERYTHING so we can present to you (the normal parents) the benefits of doing what we do.

Take our advice with a grain of salt. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz. But do me a favour and get off your high horse if you plan on sticking around. We're a pretty open-minded bunch around here, and ignorance isn't widely accepted.

Wolff

I have to agree with mayhem on this - there is far too much codology floating around about parenting

All this nature does not equip you to be a parent is nonsense - Im a completely different person since becoming a father - and yes while some reading and learning is always a good thing - too much and your kids will grow up banjaxed



also as for him being allowed to stick around - he has been around since 2000

one final point about having green babies - all well and good but isint the really green to do - dont have any at all ? just a thought