The Dignity of the Protestors, but...

DublinWriter

I briefly attended today's protest outside the Dail, more as an observer than anything else, and I was very impressed by the dignity of the protestors.

I've seen similar demonstrations in the UK degenerate into effigy-burning rallies.

But you kind of wonder, shouldn't they have been protesting outside the Four Courts rather than the Dail? To quote one poster here "In fairness, the government did not quash the judgement, the judiciary did. The government were in court fighting for it not to be quashed."

I wouldn't be the biggest fan of the current FF/PD Junta, but shouldn't the judiciary have given the government a bigger 'heads-up' that this was coming down the line?

I do realise that there needs to be separation between the government and the judiciary, but the judiciary cannot keep working in an ivory-tower and make decisions and rulings of this scale without some wider form of social responsibility.

Secondly, I think this whole affair will prove the truth once and for all of the statement by one of the ex-US Ambassadors here that "Irish people have no sense of outrage".

We've had so many scandals of public mismanagement in this country - Nursing Home Charges, A&E, Bin Charges, WEE tax, P-Pars, what-ever-Tribunal-you're-having-yourself etc etc, yet we as a public do nothing and remember little.

As Irish, we love to pride ourselves on being perceived as "rebels" by other countries, but in reality we're just a bunch of pussy-cats. Look at how London was nearly razed to the ground by the Poll-Tax riots, look at how the French protest over...well take your pick.

Will this really be the turning point for Irish people in how they express their sense of outrage, or will politics always remain the parish-pump backslapping gombeenism that it's always been?

mike65

Someone mentioned on Pat Kennys review of the week this morning that the Supreme Court should have tipped the Justice dept off when it was clear where the case was going.

As for lets have a riot, why? I remember the old days when loads of unionsied drones marched by the 100,000 complaining about PAYE, farmers regularly invaded Dublin in thier tractors and what good did it do? None. Burning the place down generally makes little sense either, the Provo inspired riots during the 1981 Hunger Strike showed that.

The judicary are on a different planet for the most part however the descison they made was'nt due to being disconnected from Real Life but becase they had to make a legally solid, logically correct judgment on legistation that was flawed. You can blame the legal scribblers in 1935 for that.

Mike.

oscarBravo

mike65 wrote:

You can blame the legal scribblers in 1935 for that.

...especially since it didn't become flawed until 1937.

In fact, you could argue (as I gather the State successfully did) that it didn't become flawed until 2006.

Manic Moran

On a related question, there was a minor flap in the US recently when one of the more conservative US Supreme Court Justices berated some of his colleagues for entertaining the possibility of considering foreign cases as persuasive argument. The theory is that the US Supreme Court should only consider US caselaw and their interpretations of the US Constitution. Otherwise, the argument goes, it leaves the door open to court cases from less reputable sources: Allowing from Canada, the UK etc could lead to cases from Libya or North Korea in extremis. I think the Conservative judge was rather making too big a deal of it myself, as I think any rational judge would put more weight in a Canadian than an Iranian case, but there are those who share his opinion.

I noted in the statutory rape quashing that the Irish Supreme Court made reference to cases from two US States, the US Supreme court, Canada and the UK. Has there ever been any mumbling about the horrors of allowing foreign morals to contaminate decisions made about the the Irish constitution?

NTM

mike65

Not until you bought the subject up!

Wading though all this stuff makes me wonder (again) about the wisdom of written constitutions.

Mike.

lostexpectation

DublinWriter wrote:

I briefly attended today's protest outside the Dail, more as an observer than anything else, and I was very impressed by the dignity of the protestors.

I've seen similar demonstrations in the UK degenerate into effigy-burning rallies.

do you mean anti-paedo demos? I actually heard plenty of stupid reactionary hang em, jail them for life, castrate them comments from the women although I do think there was plenty of reason to protest.

You have a very good point Dublinw

I add here again aren't the AG and DPP party favoured men appointed by the the current gov and these protesters might be accidently protesting outside the right place?

I bet you the same people that threw the constitution at McDowell last week were at the protest protesting perverts and the judges whose use of the constitution released actual perverts.??? LOL

dathi1

What amazes me about this whole debacle is that a few weeks ago primetime featured a program on child trafficking through Dublin from Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova by Romanian mafia asylum seekers. An amnesty Int spokesperson said the figure could be in the hundreds to thousands. Girls as young as twelve are working in apartment brothels all over the country. Gardai had no major probes since the prog and don’t have any idea on the whereabouts of certain children who were identified and logged at ports ……………..and not a word...no protests……no opposition questions in the dail….I wonder why?

lostexpectation

DublinWriter wrote:

Secondly, I think this whole affair will prove the truth once and for all of the statement by one of the ex-US Ambassadors here that "Irish people have no sense of outrage".

We've had so many scandals of public mismanagement in this country - Nursing Home Charges, A&E, Bin Charges, WEE tax, P-Pars, what-ever-Tribunal-you're-having-yourself etc etc, yet we as a public do nothing and remember little.

As Irish, we love to pride ourselves on being perceived as "rebels" by other countries, but in reality we're just a bunch of pussy-cats. Look at how London was nearly razed to the ground by the Poll-Tax riots, look at how the French protest over...well take your pick.

Will this really be the turning point for Irish people in how they express their sense of outrage, or will politics always remain the parish-pump backslapping gombeenism that it's always been?

Its only ff/fg people who have the power to raise the temperature of the middle class on hospitals etc, as exhibited by the huge protest about hospitals outside dublin last year. They obviously don't want to.

Victor

DublinWriter wrote:

Secondly, I think this whole affair will prove the truth once and for all of the statement by one of the ex-US Ambassadors here that "Irish people have no sense of outrage".

Quick, lets burn the American Embassy.

Ooops!

bonkey

DublinWriter wrote:

we as a public do nothing and remember little.

I'd put that the other way around myself.

We do little, and remember nothing, particularly come election day.

jc

gilroyb

Sorry OP, but you start by saying that the problem here lies with the judiciary, so the protest should have been there. Not sure I'd say it's a problem with the judiciary, but I would agree that this situation isn't from a failing in the current government.

You then say that we'll now see the level of people's outrage in whether they reelect the current government? So you don't think the government was to blame, but you do think they should take the fall over this?

The only way outrage over this should be seen at the ballot box is if a constitutional amendment is brought forward, something that would appear quite dangerous in the current political climate. "Hard cases make bad law" and all that.

Sgt Sensible

dathi1 wrote:

What amazes me about this whole debacle is that a few weeks ago primetime featured a program on child trafficking through Dublin from Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova by Romanian mafia asylum seekers. An amnesty Int spokesperson said the figure could be in the hundreds to thousands. Girls as young as twelve are working in apartment brothels all over the country. Gardai had no major probes since the prog and don’t have any idea on the whereabouts of certain children who were identified and logged at ports ……………..and not a word...no protests……no opposition questions in the dail….I wonder why?

I never fail to be be amused when people who do nothing complain that other people aren't doing anything about the issues they claim to care about. TDs are not mindreaders, if you want a question raised in the Dail, then ask a TD to raise it.