Dangerous driving, whats going to happen?

layke

Agree with Jood, Boards tends to have posters that will jump down your throat the second you show any signs of a weak defence. I doubt the majority would have the balls to say it to your face.

Anyhoo, we all have our bad days, I accidentally took a left turn over the week end that was for busses and taxi's only. Quick slap on the handcuffs!!

Mc-BigE

esel wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by esel
People who yield the right-of-way when they shouldn't get up my nose, tbh. I was waiting to turn right off a main road when a young guy coming the other way stops and waves me across. What a prat! I just waved him on. Jeebus!




You misunderstood my post. I was waiting to turn right off a major road. The twat who yielded to me (by stopping and waving me across) was also on the major road, travelling in the opposite direction to me. There was no need for him to stop - no traffic behind him, I could have turned after he passed.

i got ya! that is stupid.

seamus

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

the only study done and that i have to hand is the one done in the UK. and it states that car involvement is a MAJOR factor in bike accidents, and most incidents are where a car pulls out in front of a bike...be it at a junction or overtaking...

Sorry, when I said bulk, I meant bulk of single-vehicle bike crashes. Though, that's not to say that single-vehicle accidents aren't a major cause of death for bikers. Google for MAIDS - they did an in-depth statistics analysis. I haven't got time to look for it right now.

IIRC, they concluded that something like 34% of fatal motorcycle crashes involved no other vehicle, or other significant external factors - the second-largest fatality group.

fenris

I have very little sympathy for such an incredible lack of observation or respect for other road users. "Sorry" works for my 2 year old, but then again he doesen't have the potential to kill or maim someone whenever his attention span enters goldfish mode.

There is a difference between physically seeing something and paying enough attention to something in order to actually notice it. This is what gives us the famous "looked but didn't see" category of the Transport Research Lab. report. Turning you head and eyes is not enough, pay attention with your brain.

Reason for my particularly high (and slightly lame) horse - a broken pelvis from a SMIDSY (sorry mate I diddn't see you)

Also is it coincidence that single vehicle fatal crashes are most frequent in the highest suicide bracket?

Jood

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

why don't you tell that to the 559 people killed on bikes from 1993-2003.

Ah come on the OP doesnt deserve to be blamed for 559 people who were killed on Bikes, like I said he made a mistake and he will pay for it. As drivers who use roads daily we all take risks everyday. Its a risk just backing your car out of the driveway now. Thats what drivings all about. We are very quick to blame people but not so quick to realise that ANYONE can cause an accident, you dont have to be a young male or so on........., so come down off your high horse I'm sure you're not whiter than white.

fenris

I hope you are not backing out onto a main road :-P

ANewee

I have zero knowledge of the rules of the road that apply to motorcycle users but I would appreciate if someone could enlighten me on the following

1. Can a motorcyclist weave in and out using both lanes of a dual carriageway while traffic is stopped or must they maintain their positon in traffic?
2. Can a motorcyclist pass a car on the right between the car and a full whiteline without crossing the whiteline?
3. Subject to the answer to question 1, can a motorcylcist move to the front of a parked row of vehicles at a red light and wait beyond the whiteline?


If all the answers to the questions above are YES, then I apologise for all the times that I cursed a motorcyclist as these are the most common situtations where I nearly hit one

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

ANewee wrote:

I have zero knowledge of the rules of the road that apply to motorcycle users but I would appreciate if someone could enlighten me on the following

1. Can a motorcyclist weave in and out using both lanes of a dual carriageway while traffic is stopped or must they maintain their positon in traffic?
2. Can a motorcyclist pass a car on the right between the car and a full whiteline without crossing the whiteline?
3. Subject to the answer to question 1, can a motorcylcist move to the front of a parked row of vehicles at a red light and wait beyond the whiteline?


If all the answers to the questions above are YES, then I apologise for all the times that I cursed a motorcyclist as these are the most common situtations where I nearly hit one

first one.... yes, but once the traffic starts moving he must pass on the right
second one ... yes, as long as he doesn't cross the white line.
third one ... no, but he can if he doesn't cross the white line.


now... how did you nearly hit a bike in situation one when traffic is stopped???

Fey!

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

its that attitude... them and us... we all use the road fey

For you and Savmans benefit, if you look at the recurring theme from motorbike drivers in forums, you'll see that motorcyclists tend to blame car drivers for everything bad that befalls them. You see them weaving through traffic, with a lot of them in my experience not watching for potential hazards ahead.

I had a motorcyclist rant at me recently about the disrespect of car drivers for motorcyclists. A few minutes later I saw the same individual attempt to overtake a car that was clearly signaling right well in advance and was pulled right up to the white line to leave clearance on the left (I was a couple of cars behind and could see her indicator and brake lights). Due to the speed of the bike, the car had NO chance to see him coming. The motorcyclist proceeded to berate the car driver (a young female driver, but who did have a pink drivers license in her hand), almost reducing her to tears.

Tell me, in your opinionated opinion, who was at fault.

BTW, before you say I have an attitude toward bikers, I have a lot of friends who bike, and I've had several friends killed on bikes over the years, some their fault and some the fault of car drivers (I don't say we're completely blameless, just that we're not totally to blame). Also, if I see a bike coming up behind me, and if the oppurtunity arises, I will always pull as tight to the left of my lane as I can to give them the maximum space to overtake in.

Hotblack Desiato

Fey! wrote:

For you and Savmans benefit, if you look at the recurring theme from motorbike drivers in forums, you'll see that motorcyclists tend to blame car drivers for everything bad that befalls them.

That's not true at all, I know lots of people who have fallen off through their own fault and are fully prepared to admit it. I hope they've learned from the experience (I did).

Yes in the example you cite the rider was definitely doing something stupid. However having ridden bikes all over Europe I have to say that I've never encountered such a negative, hostile attitude against riders anywhere as I have here, and I really do think it's no coincidence that our rate of car vs. bike accidents is so high. Car drivers tar all motorcyclists with the same brush. The number of reckless riders I see in Dublin city is actually pretty small (higher on open roads).

There's no denying though that the observation skills of a large number of car drivers are very poor, that's why I have dual 120dB air horns fitted on my bike...

with a lot of them in my experience not watching for potential hazards ahead.

Pot kettle. Follow any car for a while and see if you can spot it making a last minute reaction to a hazard (e.g. parked car sticking out too far to be passed easily) which was perfectly obvious from half a mile away. You'll see this quite often if you look for it.

On a bike you need to be watching all the time for all sorts of hazards, like bumps, oil or gravel which a car driver wouldn't even notice but can cause problems for us.

I had a motorcyclist rant at me recently about the disrespect of car drivers for motorcyclists.

Did you cut him up?

A few minutes later I saw the same individual attempt to overtake a car that was clearly signaling right well in advance

Not smart, but then again signals don't confer right of way either, so they're both at fault.

almost reducing her to tears.

Not wishing to make excuses for him, but it does seem his adrenaline was pumping from the previous incident.
Funny things happen when the adrenaline takes over. Just this morning I had some muppet change lane without looking or signalling right in front of me, had to jam on and only just missed him, only to be confronted by HIM roaring at me about how I was an eejit and "it's only a bike anyway" :mad:

Also, if I see a bike coming up behind me, and if the oppurtunity arises, I will always pull as tight to the left of my lane as I can to give them the maximum space to overtake in.

Best thing to do is stay where you are, rather than doing something unpredictable. Also while you're watching the bike on your right, there could be a cyclist coming up on your left...

Esel

Fey! wrote:

... Also, if I see a bike coming up behind me, and if the oppurtunity arises, I will always pull as tight to the left of my lane as I can to give them the maximum space to overtake in.

You shouldn't do this. It is akin to driving on the hard shoulder to let someone pass, or speeding up when someone tailgates you. It is their responsibility to take care of themselves, not yours. If you clip another car by 'pulling to the left of your lane', hit a pothole in the hard shoulder, or get done for driving on the hard shoulder (which is illegal), you will be at fault, not them. Behaviour like this is akin to the guy who stopped to let me cross in front of him, as I explained above.

seamus

ninja900 wrote:

Pot kettle. Follow any car for a while and see if you can spot it making a last minute reaction to a hazard (e.g. parked car sticking out too far to be passed easily) which was perfectly obvious from half a mile away. You'll see this quite often if you look for it.

Indeed. Having gone back to a car after four years commuting on a bike, my big hate with drivers is people's inability to plan ahead and react in time. This was never a problem when driving behind other bikes.

You know all those times that you're frustrated by women holding you up at a supermarket checkout? That's what I'm like in the car. People sitting in the middle of roundabout junctions, when there's plenty of room for two vehicles, people stopping in front of a parked vehicle, when a bus could overtake, to name but two.

Without being stereotypical, the only times I ever cursed other bikers were when I was riding behind/with couriers or mopeds.

Tomohawk

Originally Posted by seamus
You know all those times that you're frustrated by women holding you up at a supermarket checkout? That's what I'm like in the car. People sitting in the middle of roundabout junctions, when there's plenty of room for two vehicles, people stopping in front of a parked vehicle, when a bus could overtake, to name but two.

What really annoys me is when people like me sit in the middle of roundabout junctions, when there's NOT plenty of room for two vehicles and cars force their way left or right of you when you are still waiting and observing traffic from the right. Impatient gob****es! This happens a lot at the roundabout at Killiney Towers in Glenageary, especially when coming off the top of Albert Road for some reason. This roundabout has a single lane and a cycle lane :rolleyes: to the left, but many bullys just ignore the cycle lane and undertake left other road users who are waiting to join the roundabout. That's why I sit in the middle of this roundabout junction. As its an old roundabout there isn't room for 2 cars to go round it at the same time safely. And that's only when I'm driving the Jeep, it's worse still when I'm on the bike!! :eek:

Bushes and trees were planted a few years ago which also don't help observation matters. (Presumbly the genuises at the environment dept. of Dun Laoghaire county council had allocated funds that just had to be spent :rolleyes: ) Sounds like the time they built cycle lanes up the length of Avondale Road with EU lolly but thats a fable for another day...

hiscan

seamus wrote:

I have no problem with people yielding when it's not required, provided that it's done with a little intelligence.

For example, if you're travelling on a busy road, in a long line of traffic, it's just plain considerate to slow down and allow someone to turn onto/off the road. Ultimately you're not going to impede anyone in your line of traffic.

However, people do all sorts of stupid things:
Slowing/stopping to allow someone join/leave a road, when they are the only person on the road, or are in the last three cars of a line. Just keep going - the people waiting to join/leave can wait a few more seconds.
Stopping at a green light to allow someone across. It's ok to hold off for a second or two after the light has turned green, but just stopping at lights is idiotic.
Stopping to allow ambulances to turn, when the ambulance isn't on an emergency run.

hear hear

Fey!

Ninja - I didn't cut the ranter up; it was during a conversation about daft things we'd seen drivers do (mainly car drivers, I concede), and he started on about how ALL car drivers were useless twats and all bikers were gods on the road.

As for pulling to the left of my lane to give someone space to overtake - road conditions are taking into account, and I need to have visibility ahead myself. I also do this for other car drivers. Another side of this is that I'm generally the person on the road who is doing c. 60mph (67mph on the speedo, 100km on a gps unit, 62.3mph on the cars trip computer) with cruise set at that speed to avoid fluctuations, so those overtaking me are inevitably breaking the speed limit too.

I also concede that I'm not the perfect textbook driver myself, but I watch what I'm doing - I like my car, and don't want it pranged. I know it's a selfish motive for watching the road, but so far it's kept me out of trouble.

BTW - I don't feel hostility towards bikers (I'd love to be able to drive a bike myself); I'm just sick of being blamed (as a car driver) for all their woes.

Hotblack Desiato

OK point taken about the ranter. People have bad days and I've seen ALL sorts of road users (incl. cyclists, pedestrians, so-called professionals like truck and bus drivers, and yes bikers) losing the head with minimal if any provocation. Let's all stay calm (but alert) out there.

Move over if you wish and you're absolutely certain it's safe, but as Seamus said it's the responsiblity of the passer to do so when it's safe, after 11 years of commuting by bike I know exactly what gap my bike will fit in (stopped traffic, I don't squeeze between moving traffic) so no need to move over. I don't mind having to wait, I'll still get to work long before you

On the open road, if you move over do it gradually, it's funny (and possibly dangerous) when I've been following a car for a couple of minutes waiting for a passing opportunity on the other side of the road, they suddenly see me then suddenly swerve to the left. I mean, their heart is in the right place I suppose but I'd prefer if brain was engaged! Sometimes they then get p*ssed off if I decline to squeeze at 100km/h into the one metre gap they've created between themselves and the oncoming HGV... thanks but no thanks dude :rolleyes:

Fey!

I take you point about moving over being useless with oncoming traffic, and with a sudden swerve left being stupid (easiest way to lose control of the car and wipe out everyone).
Also, after 11 years you're obviously an experienced rider (I feel the same about myself in the car after a similar length of time, but I still make the odd miscalculation). It's generally not the experienced people who have big problems, it's the less experienced ones who think that they are experienced (if you get my drift).
I know that car drivers can be stupid - a friend of mine was killed around Ballinasloe several years ago when an idiot in a car crashed into him. He wasn't actually on the bike at the time; he was leaning against it at the side of the road.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Fey
this is the topic we are on about here....
please stick to the point at hand, lets not try get carried away with other issues.

pat123 wrote:

I cut off a garda on a motorbike leaving my estate, I just spotted him too late and decided to keep going instead of stopping suddenly.


then the lights had just turned orange as I passed them,



.

Fey!

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

Fey
this is the topic we are on about here....
please stick to the point at hand, lets not try get carried away with other issues.

Yes oh wise, wonderful and amazingly intelligent one.

Jumpy

Where normally I am very harsh on bad drivers on this forum, I actually think this seemed more flustered nerves after being talked to by a Gardai than any careless driving.

Hotblack Desiato

Flustered nerves is no excuse. If you're flustered, upset, angry, tired, hungry, or anything else which impairs your concentration or judgement on the road, DON'T DRIVE until you can do so without being a danger to yourself or others.

Stark

Wise words; for someone about to pull out of their driveway at home. If you're in the middle of a traffic situation, you can't just suddenly decide "not to drive", I don't think other motorists would be very impressed with that.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Jumpy wrote:

Where normally I am very harsh on bad drivers on this forum, I actually think this seemed more flustered nerves after being talked to by a Gardai than any careless driving.

leaving the car off at the lights is not a big issue for me,
its the

pat123 wrote:

I cut off a garda on a motorbike leaving my estate, I just spotted him too late and decided to keep going instead of stopping

i mean is it no wonder our road deaths are so high

The Doktor

pat123 wrote:

I cut off a garda on a motorbike leaving my estate, I just spotted him too late and decided to keep going instead of stopping suddenly. .

Thats when this sort of thing happens.

http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/motorcycles/media/howclose.mpg

Hotblack Desiato

Stark wrote:

If you're in the middle of a traffic situation, you can't just suddenly decide "not to drive", I don't think other motorists would be very impressed with that.

OK so he had probably been stopped in the road by the Garda for a quick ear-bashing, rather than told to pull in off the road for a ticket. He still should have been extra careful (after all the Garda was still watching!)