Attitudes to England national team

Anto McC

Einst&#252 wrote: »

What I'm trying to ask to these people who 'love' English clubs, and 'hate England - what 'connects' you to 'your' club? Can It really be pride when you claim to despise its very roots?!

F*cking A1 Sharon

Well,can it......

PHB

I'm just watching the warm up on BBC, I really want Becks to win the World Cup.

Lemlin

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Exactly, football is lead by the heart. How does ones heart develop a 'love' for something faceless many miles away, whilst despising the very country from which it grew? The country in which it developed, and the country for which it continues to develop players? (When choosing a team, what seperates Liverpool/Arsenal/etc from Charlton/Torquay/Portsmouth/etc? Success perhaps?!)

What I'm trying to ask to these people who 'love' English clubs, and 'hate England - what 'connects' you to 'your' club? Can It really be pride when you claim to despise its very roots?!

I couldn't give a toss whether England do well or not. I'll be supporting T & T and countries like the Ivory Coast because its their first time at the World Cup and they are small nations. I know people who want England to do well, people who don't and I even know people who wouldn't even watch a James Bond film because he's a British agent!

What I would like to ask you and as I said on the Angelina Jolie thread you started, why do you feel the need to constantly ram your views about the Eircom League down our throats?

Its people's own option whether they watch it not. Different strokes for different folks.

Go and support your Eircom League club if you want but there's no need to constantly lecture the rest of us about a league we choose not to watch, for whatever reasons.

mike65

I even know people who wouldn't even watch a James Bond film because he's a British agent!

Lemlin thanks for that - you just make me giggle!

Mike.

Lemlin

mike65 wrote:

Lemlin thanks for that - you just make me giggle!

Mike.

I actually do though. Two lads I know from Down.

mike65

Ah that does'nt count - Nordies!

Mike.

KdjaCL

mike65 wrote:

Ah that does'nt count - Nordies!

Mike.

Lol an englishman in ireland learns abuse the nodies, you have given hope to millions of irish Man utd fans to know why they really hate leeds.





kdjac

Rikand

mike65 wrote:

Lemlin thanks for that - you just make me giggle!

Mike.

I have 3 friends from Athlone that are like that...about james bond movies, etc....

anything british and its a total hatred and they'll have nothing to do with it....however, they will shop at tescos

Zebra3

Ruskie4Rent wrote:

I'm a ManU fan, been to OT only twice, but I still feel absolutly gutted when things don't go our way. So you're trying to say that the great joy and despair that my club gives me is not from the heart? It's annoying the way people try to belittle my love of football and my love of ManU because it is not a local team and I have to work and go to college instead of go to matches. So all those people can bite my proverbial scrotum, you don't know what you're talking about.

If you really loved Merchandise United, you'd move over there and go to watch them most weeks.

You're not really a fan and you shouldn't really delude yourself that you are. I've been to watch Shels more times in eastern Europe than you've seen 'your' team play at home. :rolleyes:

Roll on Vilnius. :cool:

Ruskie4Rent

Zebra3 wrote:

If you really loved Merchandise United, you'd move over there and go to watch them most weeks.

You're not really a fan and you shouldn't really delude yourself that you are. I've been to watch Shels more times in eastern Europe than you've seen 'your' team play at home. :rolleyes:

Roll on Vilnius. :cool:

Yep i should "move over there". Sorry if i'm not what you'd call a fan. Whatever you might think that is. I'd rather keep deluding myself than being a condescending knowitall, who would rather stay on their high horse than let people enjoy football in their own way. As I said, you don't know what you're talking about.

Jivin Turkey

Ruskie4Rent wrote:

I'd rather keep deluding myself than being a condescending knowitall, who would rather stay on their high horse than let people enjoy football in their own way.

For a man that has the unfortunate obligation to go to work this very minute, at least you made me smile first

Lemlin

Zebra3 wrote:

If you really loved Merchandise United, you'd move over there and go to watch them most weeks.

You're not really a fan and you shouldn't really delude yourself that you are. I've been to watch Shels more times in eastern Europe than you've seen 'your' team play at home. :rolleyes:

Roll on Vilnius. :cool:

I'll pose the same question to you so:

Why do you feel the need to constantly ram your views about the Eircom League down our throats?

Its people's own option whether they watch it not. Different strokes for different folks.

Go and support your Eircom League club if you want but there's no need to constantly lecture the rest of us about a league we choose not to watch, for whatever reasons.

Revelation Joe

Einst&#252 wrote: »

(When choosing a team, what seperates Liverpool/Arsenal/etc from Charlton/Torquay/Portsmouth/etc? Success perhaps?!)

This phenomenon is very noticeable in England too. In towns that don't have a League team (or any team), a lot of people don't support the nearest team but the most successful.
I lived about six miles outside Brighton, and of the players in our Sunday League side, who were all locals except me, only one supported Brighton.
OTOH when I lived in Slough, their semi-pro side had a very enthusiastic local following, which I got very involved with once I started watching them regularly.

Glory-hunting, bandwagon-jumping, call it what you will. But it's everywhere

Del

KdjaCL

Lemlin wrote:

I'll pose the same question to you so:

Why do you feel the need to constantly ram your views about the Eircom League down our throats?

Its people's own option whether they watch it not. Different strokes for different folks.

Go and support your Eircom League club if you want but there's no need to constantly lecture the rest of us about a league we choose not to watch, for whatever reasons.

Quite simple really Lemlin.

There 2 (more but for the point just 2) lets say groups of people one go to EL games the other watch PL on tv.

One sees their club struggle financially in a horrible ground whilst passing a pub full of people in Man utd jerseys screaming at players and paying money to Sky and the PL and club.

So group 1 gets anooyed and thinks "WTF these people hate england" but support man utd and pay man utds wages and make them a billion pound club.....

Group 2 couldnt name more than 2 EL players but group 1 could name any of the top PLs best 11.

Now group one starts to hate group 2 and likewise group 2 hates group 1. Group 1 turns Zealot on group 2, group 2 says group 1s league is **** without actually watching it. Thus the El vs PL is born......... lol funny group 2 actually compares a billion pound club to another whose ground is worth more than the entire team and possibly 4 of their neighbouring rivals. Classic argument always makes me chuckle.

There group 3 and 4 and even possibly a 5 of types of fans, think im in group 5 i go to EL PL and la liga, Watch El for Pats, PL for the top teams and la Liga for the top players.

But to answer your Q you will find some group 1s not as many as group 2, but tbh group 2 with their attitude to tv football are best kept away from going to football matches, Roy Keane got it spot on with some sort of sambos.


kdjac

Revelation Joe

Zebra3 wrote:

You're not really a fan and you shouldn't really delude yourself that you are. I've been to watch Shels more times in eastern Europe than you've seen 'your' team play at home. :rolleyes:

I've never understood this argument. I've supported West Ham since 1978. I can count the number of times I've been to Upton Park without taking my socks off.
I've only bought three replica shirts. But I'd be disappointed not to be thought of as 'not really a fan'.
It costs a lot of money to follow a football team and a lot of people cannot afford it. That doesn't make them less of a fan that those that can.

Del

therecklessone

Revelation Joe wrote:

I've never understood this argument.

I wouldn't dignify it by describing it as an argument TBH.

KdjaCL

therecklessone wrote:

I wouldn't dignify it by describing it as an argument TBH.

And yet we always post in the threads and there are always threads about it........

They have become more monthly rather than annual and can derail any thread regardless of the original post....../me looks at thread title....

kdjac

Lemlin

KdjaC wrote:

Quite simple really Lemlin.

There 2 (more but for the point just 2) lets say groups of people one go to EL games the other watch PL on tv.

One sees their club struggle financially in a horrible ground whilst passing a pub full of people in Man utd jerseys screaming at players and paying money to Sky and the PL and club.

So group 1 gets anooyed and thinks "WTF these people hate england" but support man utd and pay man utds wages and make them a billion pound club.....

Group 2 couldnt name more than 2 EL players but group 1 could name any of the top PLs best 11.

Now group one starts to hate group 2 and likewise group 2 hates group 1. Group 1 turns Zealot on group 2, group 2 says group 1s league is **** without actually watching it. Thus the El vs PL is born......... lol funny group 2 actually compares a billion pound club to another whose ground is worth more than the entire team and possibly 4 of their neighbouring rivals. Classic argument always makes me chuckle.

There group 3 and 4 and even possibly a 5 of types of fans, think im in group 5 i go to EL PL and la liga, Watch El for Pats, PL for the top teams and la Liga for the top players.

But to answer your Q you will find some group 1s not as many as group 2, but tbh group 2 with their attitude to tv football are best kept away from going to football matches, Roy Keane got it spot on with some sort of sambos.


kdjac

Well group 1 could at least try to educate people about the Eircom League rather than constantly moaning TBH. They're hardly selling the league to anyone.

I've been to EL games like I said, I just didn't find them very entertaining. That's my view.

KdjaCL

Lemlin wrote:

Well group 1 could at least try to educate people about the Eircom League rather than constantly moaning TBH. They're hardly selling the league to anyone.

I've been to EL games like I said, I just didn't find them very entertaining. That's my view.

And i to PL and i cba who wins therefore found it boring except Leeds vs Utd 3-1 , that would be the best of my visits to england. You cant just be a fan ....like zing im a EL fan...well you can with shels from 12 fans to 3000 in 4 years wow.... but if i made you go to all Utds home games would you be a Utd fan come end of season???

Wonder what page this thread went arseways on.


kdjac

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Zebra3 wrote:

If you really loved Merchandise United, you'd move over there and go to watch them most weeks.

You're not really a fan and you shouldn't really delude yourself that you are. I've been to watch Shels more times in eastern Europe than you've seen 'your' team play at home. :rolleyes:

Roll on Vilnius. :cool:

One more post like that and you are out.

evilhomer

I love this recent spate of new guys that have gotten access. Reminds me of the "wild west" time here before approval was needed

d22ontour

evilhomer wrote:

I love this recent spate of new guys that have gotten access. Reminds me of the "wild west" time here before approval was needed

In all honesty most of the bans are from the members with longer access.

Anto McC

Sorry for stating the obvious but you were all new guys at one stage and just because we are new guys doesnt mean our opinions count any less!

KdjaCL

Anto McC wrote:

Sorry for stating the obvious but you were all new guys at one stage and just because we are new guys doesnt mean our opinions count any less!

Nothing to with that kind of newness, its how you go about trying to change other peoples opinions.



kdjac

Anto McC

Ah right yeah,my bad,sorry

Zebra3

Lemlin wrote:

I'll pose the same question to you so:

Why do you feel the need to constantly ram your views about the Eircom League down our throats?

Eh, I haven't been talking about the Eircom League. I've been talking about my definiton of what a fan is.

I've been to watch the Ireland NT about 80 times at home and a couple of times away and I wouldn't describe myself as an Ireland fan. If they win great, if they lose, ah well. Ireland fans imo are those that go to almost every home game and make it to as many away games as possible.

That's my opinion.

redspider

Revelation Joe wrote:

Hi all,
I'm English and I've lived here for for about nearly five years.
In the time I've been here, the only 'anti-English' comments I have had are 'I hope you get beat!' but conversely, there was the survey that said 35% of Irish people would support England in the World Cup
I understand why there would be negativity towards England as a national side.

But how far would it go?

Would I be asking for trouble wearing an England shirt to watch a match in a pub? Especially if England *weren't* playing? Someone tried to tell me I would have been fine wearing an England shirt watching Ireland v. Spain (I was supporting Ireland BTW!) but I wasn't so sure!
What about just walking around town?
Flying a St. George's Cross outside my house. I think that one might be going too far...

This is an interesting question for people in Ireland. The reality is that wearing an English shirt can be enough to bring trouble upon yourself, but it depends on where you are and the circumstances. A few months ago I saw a big lad with an English shirt being chased out of Temple Bar by two young gurriers.
This was about 9 pm. They looked like inner city types, indeed there is a plethora of names they could be called, but the reality is that they do exist. Of course, the lads in question are likely to support Man Utd or Liverpool. I'm sure though that if there were a crowd of 10 English fans they probably wouldnt have said or done anything. They are likely to pick on 'easy' targets. So dont make yourself an easy target. Dont walk down a quiet street at 4 in the morning shouting English chants in Ballyfermot.

But the underlying thing is that there is more than a rivalry issue, there still exists underlying 'hatred' for the English by some and what has been perpetrated on this country over the centuries will never be forgotten. Some dont do anything about it, indeed the vast majority dont. But you can see that from any survey a vast majority would relish the English team being beaten.

This is especially the case when you see how at times the English media build up their teams to knock them down. The Irish are naturally prone to supporting the underdog, as this permeates the country's position in the international scene (especially in terms of colonialism!) as well as its sporting positions. It is by no means unanimous though but it is a strong factor.

Of course, in recent decades with an increase of support of English clubs (at least in visible terms, although I know that 40 years ago every primary school kid followed a football club in England) there can be some support of wishing their players to do well, etc. eg: Liverpool supporters will want Gerrard to do well, Man Utd fans may root for Rooney, etc. This is not only an English thing. Arsenal supporters will be satisfied if Henry does well, Toure, etc. So this is a factor which can reduce any potential 'hatred'.

In terms of flying a flag, it depends on where you are. The St Georges cross may not be so bad in some areas. The Union Jack would however likely rile the hairs on most Grannies, so its far more controversial and has links with Loyalism in the North.

Of course, all this 'hate' shouldnt be taken to heart. The vast majority of people may not want the English team to do well, but in terms of individual treatment, they would treat you as an individual probably with open arms.

So, overall, try and judge the mood. There will be other people wearing English shirts in town, but these wll be other English people, not Irish people. There will be tolerant people, there will be intolerant people.

A question to ask yourself perhaps, as you are here 5 years, when would you, if ever, wear an Irish shirt?

Enjoy the world cup,

redspider

nlgbbbblth

redspider wrote:

A question to ask yourself perhaps, as you are here 5 years, when would you, if ever, wear an Irish shirt?

Why should he?
Would you expect an Irish person living in say, London, for 5 years to start wearing an England shirt?

mike65

The reality is that wearing an English shirt can be enough to bring trouble upon yourself

Actually it brings trouble from others!

Mike.

Revelation Joe

redspider wrote:

. There will be tolerant people, there will be intolerant people.

A question to ask yourself perhaps, as you are here 5 years, when would you, if ever, wear an Irish shirt?

Has anyone read today's Sunday Mirror? A female journalist wore an England shirt in Dublin. Generally, it was OK except when she got on a bus, when a group of 'youths' shouted abuse and even threw a bottle at her.
Now I live in the country and my neighbours know I'm English, so I doubt I'd have any problems.
But when I originally posed the question, I was wondering how prevalent the attitude illustrated by those youths in the Mirror would be...

As for wearing an Ireland shirt, I can't foresee an instance where I would. When I watch Ireland, I want them to win, unless they happen to be playing England.
It would just feel wrong, just like I doubt I would ever wear an Arsenal shirt or a Spurs shirt.

Del

KdjaCL

Revelation Joe wrote:

Has anyone read today's Sunday Mirror?

Dont know if you read the thread on AH about the Irish Sun and English Suns varying opinions on the movie that won the CAnnes festival.

In the Irish Sun it was "Yay our movie about the british bastards won."
In the English it was the complete opposite, "**** movie that slates england wins etc:"

Cant find the exact thread but shows how the media exploit national hatred towards each other for sales.


kdjac

PHB

A female journalist wore an England shirt in Dublin. Generally, it was OK except when she got on a bus, when a group of 'youths' shouted abuse and even threw a bottle at her.

Really?
What would she have wrote if nothing happened :rolleyes:

Pigman II

That is unexpected! Up to now I had associated buses with the highest calibre of patron.

Zebra3

Revelation Joe wrote:

Has anyone read today's Sunday Mirror? A female journalist wore an England shirt in Dublin. Generally, it was OK except when she got on a bus, when a group of 'youths' shouted abuse and even threw a bottle at her.

It wouldn't surprise me if it did happen, and it wouldn't surprise me either if the story was made up.

Anto McC

What number bus was it

Revelation Joe

PHB wrote:

Really?
What would she have wrote if nothing happened :rolleyes:

Probably have written that she felt it was good that she wasn't subjected to any hostility whilst wearing an England shirt and that maybe we can all live in peace and harmony...

Del

Revelation Joe

Anto McC wrote:

What number bus was it

Dunno but she caught it from Dame Street apparently

Del

PHB

Probably have written that she felt it was good that she wasn't subjected to any hostility whilst wearing an England shirt and that maybe we can all live in peace and harmony...

Oh I'm sure, cause that sells papers.

cousin_borat

Personally I would have been happy to see England win before the tournament. However after the press conferences where Backham, Eriksson and now Joe Cole talking about how tough it was in the heat I'm sick of hearing this crap. So many times you hear England players saying "I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses but .." The water is a serious issue but it's for England FA to sort out with FIFA on getting it to the players on the field not for players to be bringing up

Töpher

Lemlin wrote:

What I would like to ask you and as I said on the Angelina Jolie thread you started, why do you feel the need to constantly ram your views about the Eircom League down our throats?

Its people's own option whether they watch it not. Different strokes for different folks.

Maybe I missed something, but the post of mine you quoted was to those who despise England, yet feel they can pick and choose what aspects of England to cling to and which to moan about (nothing to do with Ireland or Irish football). Such as; supporting an English team and loving the English media when they talk them up. And hating England themselves and despising the media when they talk them up.

If everyone who supported English football had the balls to support the country they are assisting in funding there would be nothing to talk about, surely?!

herbieflowers

assisting in funding?!

Töpher

herbieflowers wrote:

assisting in funding?!

Perhaps thats the wrong expression. Irish people put staggering amounts of money into English football every year - this goes towards the wages of, facilities for, treatment of, development of, most of the English team. The money Ireland as a nation puts in also helps these teams in Europe - and as such English players (and as its always the big teams - the England squad) experience, which is invaluable at the time of huge competitions such as the world cup.

I'd be surprised if the FA didn't get any money from all of this, but of that I cannot be sure.

I've no problem with this myself, but is it not hypocritical to contribute to these players in everything from money to development as a player (unless its all a ploy - hoping to get them inured! ), support them at their clubs week in week out, and hope they fail as members of their national team on the worlds biggest stage?

mike65

cousin_borat wrote:

Personally I would have been happy to see England win before the tournament. However after the press conferences where Backham, Eriksson and now Joe Cole talking about how tough it was in the heat I'm sick of hearing this crap. So many times you hear England players saying "I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses but .." The water is a serious issue but it's for England FA to sort out with FIFA on getting it to the players on the field not for players to be bringing up

I think you just blew your own complaint out of the water.

Mike.

county

3 points is 3 points,england destroyed france in the euro championships and look what it got them,nil points.
i love the way some people on boards are so passionate about englands performance,its a shame irelands not there so you can comment on there performance:rolleyes:

eirebhoy

county wrote:

england destroyed france in the euro championships and look what it got them

Stats to the rescue... France had 5 more shots on goal, 151 more passes and over 7 minutes more possession. England destroyed France my arse. The only time England played well in the Euros was against Croatia.

county

The only time England played well in the Euros was against Croatia.[/QUOTE]
balls,england were by far the better team against france,i feel your anti english views are clouding your judgement

eirebhoy

county wrote:

balls,england were by far the better team against france,i feel your anti english views are clouding your judgement

I think you need to look at yourself mate. How can a team with with 46% possession and less shots on goal have destroyed the opposition? I know sometimes stats are useless but not in this case.

I watched today's match with my brother and he said that Angola deserved a draw from the game. Portugal absolutely dominated tonight's game and it's only the bias towards the minnows that makes you feel that they deserved something for their work.

cousin_borat

mike65 wrote:

I think you just blew your own complaint out of the water.

Mike.

You're highlighting part of a sentence and using it out of context. I think its bad psychology for the players to be discussing factors they cannot control such as the weather. IMO this isn't a winning attitude on the England players part

daveirl

This post has been deleted.