Attitudes to England national team

redspider

Revelation Joe wrote:

A female journalist wore an England shirt in Dublin. Generally, it was OK except when she got on a bus, when a group of 'youths' shouted abuse and even threw a bottle at her. Now I live in the country and my neighbours know I'm English, so I doubt I'd have any problems. But when I originally posed the question, I was wondering how prevalent the attitude illustrated by those youths in the Mirror would be...
As for wearing an Ireland shirt, I can't foresee an instance where I would. When I watch Ireland, I want them to win, unless they happen to be playing England. It would just feel wrong, just like I doubt I would ever wear an Arsenal shirt or a Spurs shirt.

The abuse the female journalist got is what can be expected. As I mentioned in my earlier post, you can expect abuse, and if in the wrong pace at the wrong time the abuse could get physical.

As for you wearing the Irish shirt, I didnt expect otherwise. And as you point out, wearing a shirt from a team that you dont support feels wrong. But multiply this by 100 and you can see why English shirts and flags does vex some people here in Ireland. For example, I see some people (presumably Polish) have Polish flags up, and indeed they are up in some bars. But you can bet your bottom euro that these same bars are not putting up English flags.

These flags are symbols, but due to our intertwined histories, the english signia's are seen negatively here. Walk down the street with a Brazilian shirt and you will have no hassle whatsoever. Do the same in Buenos Aires, well ... you get the picture. C'est La Vie. Our history will not 'untwine' for many 100's of years. The famine (1 million deaths!) is just 160 years ago ... ie: your grandfather's grandfather .... not very long ago really for such feelings to subside.

Redspider

johnos

The FA
25 Soho Square
London W1 4FA
Dear Sir,
Our Head Coach, Mr Sven-G♂ran- Ericsson, has asked me, on the eve of
our departure to Germany for the World Cup Finals, for which we have
qualified, to ask our fellow Home Nations to come to our assistance so
that England may be 100% sure of winning the World Cup.
As you are no doubt aware from the winning of the Rugby World Cup
and the Ashes, England’s success boosts all British nations and we know
how you all enjoyed basking in the reflected glory which bonds our
ancient nations together.
To this end, we request and require that you furnish, forthwith, any
information, which may aid us on our quest. We don’t expect to need it,
you understand, but one never knows.
What we have in mind is tactical appraisals of our opponents, whom you
may have encountered whilst failing to qualify yourselves. Foreign styles
of play, underhand methods of influencing the referee, latin diving,
teutonic bullying, you know the sort of thing. Also, if there is any advice
of the legality of two apparently separate islands in the Carribean forming
a joint enterprise for the express purpose of winning a soccer match. In
the capital here we find it quite extraordinary!
I know well you all take delight in the support of England whenever any
of you manage a shock result and am sure of the same fullsome support
from you chaps in this instance.
You remain, hopefully, our humble servants
Brian Barwick

johnos

FA Ireland
80 Merrion Square
Dublin 2
Ah Brian how’s it going
All the lads here wish ye the very best in the World Cup. Sure don’t ye
know that?
We always want England to do well. There has been too much old guff
about history and bad blood and we should forget about all that. We have
anyhow.
I mean, nowadays who is interested in Pope Adrian (the only English
Pope) blessing the English invasion which took all our lands and divided
it up amongst the English? Who wants to know about Cromwell putting
the women and children of Drogheda and Wexford to the sword; the
Penal Laws that outlawed the one true Catholic faith and the outlawing of
the beloved Gaelic language. The crushing of the brave rebels in 1118,
1250, 1336, 1388 1542, 1612. 1798, 1848, 1916. Sure we have forgotten
all about the Famine, where one million of us were starved to death, skin
and bone with grass stain about our hungry mouths with pestilence rapine
and disease stalking every corner of the land whilst our young men fought
in the front lines of the trenches of your imperial wars.
Having forgotten all that, and the unfinished business in a corner of our
land, we would of course be delighted to support England, and we will.
However, you must be aware of our longstanding emigrant links with
seamus insert name of whoever the bastrds are playing and so
therefore, on this one occasion, our loyalties may be somewhat divided.
As a favour Brian: - my daughter is a big Man U fan and could you send
over young Wayne’s birth cert (and his folks) so she can send him a
birthday card?
Yours as ever
Seán Ó Blarney

johnos

The Scottish Football
Association
Hampden Park
Glasgow
G42 9AY


Dear Brian,
F*ck off you English c*nts
Hamish McSporran


(with apologies to unnamed author of all three above)

johnos

Apologies for taking a while to get round to posting this - I had forgotten about it.
The issue of Irish attitudes to Engerland's WC progress is teased out by Prime Time -- but with a glaring gap in the logic.
http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/6884

Kingp35

I wont be supporting England and want to see them lose. Its called football rivalry. Simple as.

nlgbbbblth

johnos wrote:

Apologies for taking a while to get round to posting this - I had forgotten about it.
The issue of Irish attitudes to Engerland's WC progress is teased out by Prime Time -- but with a glaring gap in the logic.
http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/6884

Thanks for that. Missed the original broadcast.

I see O'Brien used the old clíche 'half of them aren't English anyway' when trying to justify his support of Liverpool. As if Irish people supporting English clubs is only a recent phenomena which coincided with the influx of foreign players into their league. :rolleyes: He was quite defensive too and felt that he was being pressurised into supporting England.

Of course nobody is saying you have to. Instead they're just questioning the Irish's 'pick and choose' mentality when it comes to England and its culture.

At no stage did the concept of them supporting an Irish club enter into the equation.

therecklessone

I'd be embarrassed to share the same views as that 9th rate sports broadcaster O'Brien. Is he the best Setanta have to offer?

This topic came up on a Spurs board I post on. One Irish poster mentioned the darkside of English football and linked to footage of Landsdowne. The reply was that the thugs were probably throwing the rubble from countless IRA bomb sites back at the Irish.

Today's lesson: don't tar everyone with the same brush.

In other news, of the 60,000 English fans in Frankfurt for the 1st game there was a mere dozen arrests, mostly for alcohol related offences. Sounds like a Dublin-Meath Leinster final.

Töpher

johnos wrote:

Apologies for taking a while to get round to posting this - I had forgotten about it.
The issue of Irish attitudes to Engerland's WC progress is teased out by Prime Time -- but with a glaring gap in the logic.
http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/6884

Very interesting, typical example of deciding when and where you can and cannot like the English. As I said earlier in this thread, its glory hunting and jealousy combined. We cling to the successes of their clubs despite having no connections to them, and then England as a nation (to whom many of us would have connections) we hate to see them do well - perhaps because they almost always do better than us?

johnos

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Very interesting, typical example of deciding when and where you can and cannot like the English. As I said earlier in this thread, its glory hunting and jealousy combined. We cling to the successes of their clubs despite having no connections to them, and then England as a nation (to whom many of us would have connections) we hate to see them do well - perhaps because they almost always do better than us?

Fair enough. But what interested me was that all participants wrestled with the contradictions inherent in supporting Liverpool etc. and not supporting England, but the possibility of having allegiance to an Irish club never dawned on them.
I admired O'Brien's sticking to his prejudices instead of trying to adopt a rather creepy blanket support of the English "because they're our neighbours (sob)". But he copped out when it came to club. Of course, if he didn't, he'd be out of a job on Setanta.
Imagine trying to make your way in the world as a sports hack, and tellling editors that, actually, you didn't have much time for the English Premiership or GAA!

Nalced_irl

Ill support England in this world cup once they are not playing teams i prefer like Ecuador, Poland, Costa Rica, Germany, Argentina, Holland, Ivory Coast, Serbia And Mont., Italy, Czechs, Ghana, Switzerland, Korea, France, Togo, Sweden, Trinadad, Paraguay, Portugal, USA, Mexico, Angola, Iran, Brazil, Australia, Croatia, Japan, Spain, Ukraine, Tunisia or the Saudi's, but ill support them against any others To be honest, i dont think history and politics plays too much part in people not supporting England. I think it is that as we have all the English channels, we see all the constant media hype and boasting that goes on and dont want to have to deal with listening about the WC victory for the next 50 years. I will not be supporting England mainly for that reason, plus i think its about time Arg won it, they are great at the moment. As for throwing bottles ect at a person wearing an english jersey, while i obviously do not agree with it, i would expect abuse for wearing a celtic shirt in the rangers part of glasgow or probably a german shirt over an Irish one in certain areas of London. Its simply what happens when there is a dark history about it. There is always one or two people that will have a go and sometimes it will get physical. Anyway, back to the original post, wearing an English jersey in a bar, no probs once you dont start singing rule britania ect and enticing trouble, english flag out your window, no probs once you have very strong central heating. The flag idea is a very bad one

therecklessone

Nalced_irl wrote:

To be honest, i dont think history and politics plays too much part in people not supporting England. I think it is that as we have all the English channels, we see all the constant media hype and boasting that goes on and dont want to have to deal with listening about the WC victory for the next 50 years. I will not be supporting England mainly for that reason,

Read my sig...

redspider

Nalced_irl wrote:

To be honest, i dont think history and politics plays too much part in people not supporting England. I think it is that as we have all the English channels, we see all the constant media hype and boasting that goes on and dont want to have to deal with listening about the WC victory for the next 50 years. I will not be supporting England mainly for that reason.

I agree with therecklessone. In Ireland, its the Irish media that are also obsessed with the English team. Look at Dunphy and Giles, they bring England up constantly. Of course, more often than not, and this WC is no exception, the main discussion is the pointing out of faults, criticising, etc. Whilst they are not anti-English, they are bordering on anti-England. More peeople than not would be glad to see England knocked out, and would laugh if it was from a missed penalty by Beckham, an own gpal by Ferdinand etc. There would be more smiles in the pub than not, and indeed cheers.

True, no-one does like to hear the incessant hype, especially if England won, but we have much less of a problem if Brazil do it. How come we are not sick to the back teeth of hearing about Brazil being favourites, of their hype, etc? The reason is the history and our collective selection as a public to be more ingratiated by all things English, and in this case the English football team, a personification of beating other countries and colonialism. I am sure that Social Science studies have gone into this and our history and reasons for these stance is quite clear. English peole can understand it. Just as Afrikaaners can understand the indigenous peoples in Soweto, etc. Both "sides" just need to accept it.

The hype is one thing, but why it annoys us is the real story behind this. And the cause of that has more to do with our history than the recent phenomenon of 'having to listen to the hype', which by the way, is optional. If you dont like the hype turn the sound down, dont read the articles, etc. No-one forces us to read/listen/watch the media!

Me personally, I dont have a problem if England do win the WC. I would not go into a deep remorse or feel ill with all the hype. However, if they lose to Germany or Ecuador, I would not be jumping on the rooftop, but I and 70% of the population would be quitely satisfied, oh, as long as Stevie Gerrard's leg wasnt broken in the process - nor Hamann's (if he gets a game) !

There are other countries I wouldnt be too enamoured with winning it. Germany would be one. But its hard to think of others.

redspider

mike65

Italy surly? (cheating primadona scumbags!)

Mike.

johnos

redspider wrote:

Look at Dunphy and Giles, they bring England up constantly.

Giles recently fell into the trap of using 'we' when talking about England. I suppose he has an excuse of sorts, just as R. Keane had when he called E. Prem. 'domestic football'. Also heard one of the 106 chaps say about a continental European player 'He doesn't even play here,' - 'here' being England. Ingrained, I suppose. For such people, grappling with the fact that football exists in Ireland must be like trying to brush their teeth left-handed.

dbnavan

Someone asked me recently, if I support Liverpool, and think Stevie G is so great why wouldnt I shout for him at the world cup, and it got me thinking..... I dont want england to win because I think they are for too much overhyped, I think there "World Class" players wouldnt stand a chance to the Brazilans or Germans. I mean they have no proflic goal scorer, Wayne Rooney can come up with a fantasic goal, but he is no world beater IMO, hardly comparible to Ronaldino or Maradona,

They have stumbled past to average teams and they still believe "I's coming home". In short, its the press and the hype that puts me off shouting for our Neighbours. I still believe the Irish Team in 1990 had a better chance of coming home with the trophey then Sven and his men.

therecklessone

This is obviously a very serious situation we find ourselves in. I think its time we initiated a letter writing campaign to highlight the gross injustice of it all. I mean, how can all of the cable and satellite operators get away with replacing RTE with the BBC, ITV, and Sky News?

How can our canny newsagents get away with replacing the inside pages of the Indo, Times and Herald with the sports pages from the Sun and NOTW?

How can Radio 5 get away with broadcasting on 88-89 and 106FM?

Oh wait, that's not right...

nlgbbbblth

therecklessone wrote:

This is obviously a very serious situation we find ourselves in. I think its time we initiated a letter writing campaign to highlight the gross injustice of it all. I mean, how can all of the cable and satellite operators get away with replacing RTE with the BBC, ITV, and Sky News?

How can our canny newsagents get away with replacing the inside pages of the Indo, Times and Herald with the sports pages from the Sun and NOTW?

How can Radio 5 get away with broadcasting on 88-89 and 106FM?

Oh wait, that's not right...

Exactly

But there's a lot of people who just can't see that the media overload is our choice if you wish to be bombarded with it. Loads of them on this thread.

Nalced_irl for example - open your f*cking eyes and watch out that the dropping penny doesn't hit you.:rolleyes: