Wood Pellet Market Heating Up

MysterFixIt

I have been reading some of the posts here about Wood Pellet Heating. Thought this might be of interst to those involved: http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

De_man

thanks very much its a very interesting link:cool:


a pint of plain is yer only man

rooferPete

Hi,

I'll take all they can get me at €2335.00, they must meet with all E.N. standards and they must provide my insurance broker with a valid copy of their product liabilty insurance and an insurance backed two year guarantee.

I am wondering why this fool (me) paid €800.00 for a single flue that meets with the current building regulations, I must apologise to my customer for not getting the advice from Mr. or Ms. anonymous before "ripping" my customer off.

Naturally the writer has purchased the boiler and flue in the Czech Republic and returned the balance of the grant to SEI ?

.

De_man

rooferPete wrote:

I'll take all they can get me at €2335.00, they must meet with all E.N. standards and they must provide my insurance broker with a valid copy of their product liabilty insurance and an insurance backed two year guarantee.
.

I had a look at the companies home page on the net, it appears there are
separate systems available i.e. for the czech market and for export
it would be interesting to see the price of the system that meets E.N. standards, unfortunately the home page converts to English but when
you go to the ordering page it's all in Czech

Whilst the person was quoting a price of 2335 no doubt a very competitive
price, i'd be worried about the after sales, installation etc etc as the saying goes "what can go wrong will go wrong":eek:


it would be interesting to see if anyone had actually ordered direct from
the company, on the web page they state to contact your local dealer


a pint of plain is yer only man

mjffey

Shtttttttttt Pete, stay calm. Your mail reads already defensive. You're one of the good guys, but you can't ignore that there are loads of them who aren't. Were otherwise would the Rip of Ireland expression come from.

take care

RedLady

Hi,

I totally agree. I got a quote from 2 companies that differed by 4k for the very same boiler!!
RIP off Ireland is alive and kicking!!

Regards,

denismac

RedLady wrote:

Hi,

I totally agree. I got a quote from 2 companies that differed by 4k for the very same boiler!!
RIP off Ireland is alive and kicking!!

I think it would be no harm, and not illegal I'm sure, to have quotations for sales and installations quoted here by members. After all, if you were quoted two different amounts for what is basically the same system, the quotations should be similar, unless of course you want the gold plated version of the boiler.
Let us see who are the rip-off merchants. The power to do something about them lies solely with ourselves.

Carb

RedLady wrote:

RIP off Ireland is alive and kicking!!Regards,

Certainly is. I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush, but I was talking to my plumber on a number off occaisions about a solar set up. He told me that he'd promised a number of people before Christmas that he could install solar panels etc based on his purchase price of 2100 euro. The same system, since the grants, is now costing him an exxtra 1100 euro, with the attitude of his supplier been, take it or leave it. The last rise alone was 600 euro.

rooferPete

Hi,

Thanks mjffey, reading my post back it does look very defensive

Part of the problem I see at the moment is some people are not reading their grant approval in full, just because a consumer applies using one installer's and product number doesn't mean they can't change either or both supplier and installer.

The grant is good for a year after you get approval so why rush ?

There are a lot of different products on the market today that were not available in Ireland before the grant was announced, some are better value than others.

A very important part of changing to some pellet boilers is to ensure a mixer valve is fitted to the system, one supplier actually asked why ? even though it was clearly shown on the installation drawing.

That suggests to me that there are a lot of boilers being fitted that may have a life expectancy of less than five years.

There may be nothing wrong with the boiler to start with, the problem can be with the installation, another question I find being asked is why bother with the proper flue when a single skin stainless steel works ?

They appear silly details but they are very important, if buying on price alone at best I expect to see a lot boilers of needing replacement very soon, at worst they may go on fire.

I have to agree with Red Lady a difference of €4,000.00 on the exact same boiler and installation certainly raises questions.

.

RedLady

Hi DenisMac,

If you want find out who I think are ripping people off, PM and I'll tell you. You are based in the MidWest - so am I. Have you decided on who you are going to get your boiler off? What is your budget?

Kind Regards,

De_man

For further information on types of boilers and for
a serious amount of other useful information try the following link


http://nordjyskbioenergi.noweb.dk/index.asp

On the home page click for the english translation



a pint of plain is yer only man

De_man

MysterFixIt

The only offence here is what you take
None was intended:D

FLUES.

Any high efficiency boiler over 85% be it oil - or solid-fuel - that has an exterior flue of any length, will need an insulated or double wall flue so that condensation does not become a problem. If the flue gasses are hot enough i.e. if the stove is not very high efficiency, then the flue can be cast iron or wahtever.

Most of the pellet burners are up around 90% efficiency and would probably do better, especially in cold damp weather, with an insulated flue. I worked as a heating engineer for ShellBP so I do have some savvy!


PRICES

If you want to purchase in the Czech Republic there is no problem except transport and tax. The boilers there meet German standards so why not Irish. In fact Dor and Boink are accepted here. So if you have a truck and someone to do the paperwork you can get the stuff no problem - 4 of my mates will be your customers if you can offer the stuff at close to German/Danish or Czech prices.

I do a little work for a guy in Denmark and he tells me that the prices for wood pelleted burners etc. are also well cheaper than Ireland. I will be publishing more info as I get it in my blog.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

MysterFixIt

Here is a link to a Danish heating and puplumbing Store. You will see a COMPLETE pellet boiler/burner plus Hopper and auger set - - for DK Kroner 28,500 incl 25% tax (thats more than our 21%.

That price converts €3823 Euros but remember it is inclusive of 25% tax. Also remember that the price is RETAIL - not wholesale. It means there is NO REASON why a very similar price should not be achieved in good old Rip-Off Ireland. other than there are rip-off middle men at work!!!

http://www.hedestoker.dk/butik/komplet-pillefyrstokerfyr/506

Have a nice Day

JimmySmith

MysterFixIt wrote:

Here is a link to a Danish heating and puplumbing Store. You will see a COMPLETE pellet boiler/burner plus Hopper and auger set - - for DK Kroner 28,500 incl 25% tax (thats more than our 21%.

That price converts €3823 Euros but remember it is inclusive of 25% tax. Also remember that the price is RETAIL - not wholesale. It means there is NO REASON why a very similar price should not be achieved in good old Rip-Off Ireland. other than there are rip-off middle men at work!!!

http://www.hedestoker.dk/butik/komplet-pillefyrstokerfyr/506

Have a nice Day

wow .. scary, how well you've illustrated rip-off ireland there. How much does it cost to get one of these shipped to ireland though?

MysterFixIt

Why dont you find out and let me know what the shipping costs are?

MysterFixIt

The price of Wood Pellet Heaters is a problem of the importers and middle-men NOT the contractors for the most part.

RooferPete you are therefore justified in feeling a bit hard-done-by in my posts and Blog.

It might take people like you to go behing the middle men and bring the stuff in directly - I for one would really applaud an effort like that. Everyone would win - except the middle men.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

ismynametoolong

MysterFixIt wrote:

.

PRICES

If you want to purchase in the Czech Republic there is no problem except transport and tax. The boilers there meet German standards so why not Irish.
http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

My understanding is that in almost everything the TUV or German approval far exceeds the BS standard I know the approval process in Germany is very stringent and i will always look for TUV approval over any other .

rooferPete

Hi,

You must have been out the day they covered the most important for the correct flues.

Also Why are you Not Making Money ? I'll Quote from my post of the 8/06/2006

Hi,

I'll take all they can get me at €2335.00, they must meet with all E.N. standards and they must provide my insurance broker with a valid copy of their product liabilty insurance and an insurance backed two year guarantee.

All you have done so far as I can see is prove the old adage :

"A little knowledge can be very Dangerous"

.

MysterFixIt

rooferPete wrote:

Hi,

You must have been out the day they covered the most important for the correct flues.

Also Why are you Not Making Money ? I'll Quote from my post of the 8/06/2006

Hi,

I'll take all they can get me at €2335.00, they must meet with all E.N. standards and they must provide my insurance broker with a valid copy of their product liabilty insurance and an insurance backed two year guarantee.

All you have done so far as I can see is prove the old adage :

"A little knowledge can be very Dangerous"

.

Hi RooferPete,

An individual can import the stuff and not bother with insurance agents etc. SEI are happy no matter where the equipment is bought once it is on the approved list. They approve the boiler NOT the seller.

ALL the prices I have been showing on my blogs and mentioning here on the BB are ACTUAL German - Danish - Czech retail prices. The boilers are standard pieces of equipment such as the Opop - Dor etc. same standard same model number. The Germans and the Danes have safety and equipment standards at least as high as we have in good old Ireland, so anything they pass should have no problem here. I have a contact in Denmark who will vouch for the quality of the equipment he uses.

I remember hearing similar arguments many years ago about electrical goods.

Regarding your suggestion - - - I intend buying Dor boilers and Scotte burners in Germany. SEI said they have no problem with the boilers if they are on the recommended list and these are!!

With regards to the ViaLing Viadrus boiler - pound to a penny - you will see this on the SEI list fairly soon also. EnergyMaster Listowel already sell the Viadrus Hercules - Viadrus is a well respected brand - you tell me if the ViaLing is rubbish??

Please do not take my arguments personally they are not intended so - it is just that Ireland has been a rip-off country for many years due to the protectionism of the last century. Just about EVERYTHING was dearer here.

I recently bought an electric piano from Thomann in Germany for €900 the Irish seller was looking for €1300. He said I would be stuck for parts and guarantee etc., using a well worked old Irish justification for rip-off prices. It so turns out - that Thomann Germany have second to none service, as I have had cause to find out. They arranged everything and could not be more helpful. I will deal with Germany again. Same is true from computers I buy most of my stuff from German companies.

It is about time Ireland caught-up with the rest of Europe and got its act service and pricing together.

Best wishes.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

MysterFixIt

rooferPete wrote:

Hi,

You must have been out the day they covered the most important for the correct flues.

Also Why are you Not Making Money ? I'll Quote from my post of the 8/06/2006

Hi,

I'll take all they can get me at €2335.00, they must meet with all E.N. standards and they must provide my insurance broker with a valid copy of their product liabilty insurance and an insurance backed two year guarantee.

All you have done so far as I can see is prove the old adage :

"A little knowledge can be very Dangerous"

.

Hello RooferPete,

I was just re-reading the last two lines of your recent post quoted above. It sounds like sour grapes and bad-mouthing to me. Now I could be wrong, and forgive me if I am.

I did not make ANY personal remarks about you or indeed about anyone specific at all. I think making personal evaluation remarks like that is against the spirit of these BBs and not in good taste. An apology would be in order.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

MysterFixIt

De_man wrote:

I had a look at the companies home page on the net, it appears there are
separate systems available i.e. for the czech market and for export
it would be interesting to see the price of the system that meets E.N. standards, unfortunately the home page converts to English but when
you go to the ordering page it's all in Czech

Whilst the person was quoting a price of 2335 no doubt a very competitive
price, i'd be worried about the after sales, installation etc etc as the saying goes "what can go wrong will go wrong":eek:


it would be interesting to see if anyone had actually ordered direct from
the company, on the web page they state to contact your local dealer


a pint of plain is yer only man

Hi - I am in the process of organising a purchasing co-operative for pellet boilers. We will make sure the units are on the SEI list and we will buy some of the spares when we make the purchase.

So far there are 5 people on our list. We will probably deal with a German company and pay that bit extra - but it will save a lot of hassle. Even so, the price will be WAY cheaper than those being quoted in Ireland, I am talking 30% plus - allowing for transport and VAT differences. It will pay us to hold some spares of say igniter units etc. In fact if we get bigger we will purchase one complete extra unit as a built-in self-operated guarantee and insurance scheme.

We are currently getting transport quotes. Another idea is to use a van and have one of our number make the trip to collect the stuff - this looks a good option unless we get some cheaper trucking quotes. We wait and see.

We are also talking to some complient plumbers and having them get themselves listed with SEI - and so do a reasonably priced set of installations. I myself have some training in heating engineering and will be able to test efficiency, flue draft etc.

All it takes to get listed with SEI is a tax clearance certificate and a registration form. SEI do NOT - I repeat- - DO NOT - guarantee ANY STANDATDS of workmanship from its listed fitters.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

rooferPete

Hi,

Maybe I should post one issue at a time, that way you won't get mixed up, so here are the first lines of that post .

"Hi,

You must have been out the day they covered the most important for the correct flues.

Also Why are you Not Making Money ? I'll Quote from my post of the 8/06/2006"

Then I filled in with with the earlier quote.

I finished that post with the following two lines;

All you have done so far as I can see is prove the old adage :

"A little knowledge can be very Dangerous"

As for the Vialing in the form you posted it ;

I have the PDF detailed file with the full product specification from the manufacturer, I hope you buy container loads

SEI do require a few more documents but as you know it all I''m sure you are right.

Now as for an apology

Foxtrot Oscar

.

delly

Locking thread as we seem to have a very difference of opinion, and the fact that MysterFixIt's OP was general info which is grand, but I don't want it turned into an advert for his purchasing co-operative.

Also Pete, try to be nice.