The Hazards of Belief

robindch

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't have a major issue with a day where people can't drink. but to balance it out with other activities, there should be a day where soccer (or talking about it) is banned.

And talking about transport. And in popette's case, abortion + marriage equality :-/

Pherekydes

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't have a major issue with a day where people can't drink. but to balance it out with other activities, there should be a day where soccer (or talking about it) is banned.

Why not move it around the calendar, then? This year, GF. Next year, Paddy's day. Then, xmas eve, all-Ireland final day and so on.

Zack Morris

Isn't Ireland due to play a competitive football game on Good Friday in the near future?

RikuoAmero

robindch wrote: »

Fitzgerald urged to lift ban on Good Friday alcohol sales

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fitzgerald-urged-to-lift-ban-on-good-friday-alcohol-sales-1.2082973

I don't drink alcohol at all. Despite that, I say, let the retailers sell! The law is based on a religious belief, passed in a time when the RCC were our lords and masters.

recedite

Peccaries should never be inserted into the vagina.

Hotblack Desiato

The RCC still are your lord and master if you're trying to get a school place for your child in an oversubscribed area, are a pregnant woman, or trying to organise a non-religious burial in Donegal.

Brian Shanahan

And no it's not building houses and homelsess shelters, or forgiving debt, or creating a more equal society.

It's putting up a lot of sculptures glorifying their favourite fictional character (no, not Harry Potter, Jesus!) and calling them the Homeless Jesus.

There's one debuting outside Christ Church in Dublin over the next while, and according to the sculptor Tim Schmalz they will remind people of homelesness, and show that "homelessness is very close to spirituality" and how through glorifying Jebus they will all be given a better life (this bit I got off his piece on the Sean O'Rourke show this morning).

So the solution is to put up useless statues, which will cost a pretty penny as they are going up all round the western world, not build houses nor give people education or training, nor provide health care nor counselling or any of the other concrete steps which would actually help with the crisis? And then the church is wondering why so many people have stopped listening.

Oh one final thought, the sculptor calls himself (on his website) a "good christian". I don't know about the good bit, but exploiting the weak and powerless and living off the misery of others is a perfectly christian thing to do.

robindch

After seeing The Hobbit, a US schoolboy threatens to make a classmate disappear using his magic ring. So the headmistress suspended the boy. Seems he'd been nothing but trouble anyway, what with arriving in with his favourite book entitled "The Big Book of Knowledge" which had a picture of the solar system and a pregnant woman.

Be thankful, citizens, you are not attending Kermit Elementary School, even temporarily.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-boy-suspended-bringing-ring-power-school-article-1.2099103

NY Daily News wrote:

Tolkien lore led a Texas boy to suspension after he brought his “one ring” to school. Kermit Elementary School officials called it a threat when the 9-year-old boy, Aiden Steward, in a playful act of make-believe, told a classmate he could make him disappear with a ring forged in fictional Middle Earth’s Mount Doom.

“It sounded unbelievable,” the boy’s father, Jason Steward, told the Daily News. He insists his son “didn’t mean anything by it.” The Stewards had just watched “The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies” days earlier, inspiring Aiden’s imagination and leading him to proclaim that he had in his possession the one ring to rule them all.

“Kids act out movies that they see. When I watched Superman as a kid, I went outside and tried to fly,” Steward said. Aiden claimed Thursday he could put a ring on his friend's head and make him invisible like Bilbo Baggins, who stole Gollum’s "precious" in J.R.R. Tolkien’s fantasy series “The Lord of the Rings.” “I assure you my son lacks the magical powers necessary to threaten his friend’s existence,” the boy's father later wrote in an email. "If he did, I'm sure he'd bring him right back."

Principal Roxanne Greer declined to comment on the fourth-grader’s suspension, citing confidentiality policies, according to the Odessa American, who first reported Aiden’s troubles Friday. The family moved to the Kermit Independent School District only six months ago, but it’s been nothing but headaches for Aiden. He’s already been suspended three times this school year.

Two of the disciplinary actions this year were in-school suspensions for referring to a classmate as black and bringing his favorite book to school: "The Big Book of Knowledge." “He loves that book. They were studying the solar system and he took it to school. He thought his teacher would be impressed,” Steward said.

But the teacher learned the popular children’s encyclopedia had a section on pregnancy, depicting a pregnant woman in an illustration, he explained.

recedite

I see a Hobo Jesus costs $22,000 plus shipping, which will be paid by a mystery benefactor. There seems to be a few of them around already, in different cities, so presumably the sculptor is using the same mold.
Not much use to homeless people though. Another article here.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/any-room-at-the-inn-for-homeless-jesus-in-dublin-1.2022746

On the plus side, it looks like He is not taking up the entire seat, so there is room for one person to sit down and rest their weary ass a while.

Hotblack Desiato

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

There's one debuting outside Christ Church in Dublin over the next while, and according to the sculptor Tim Schmalz

The IT thought it important to tell us that Tim is a "devout Catholic". That's really important to know. I'm still ignorant of other pertinent facts, such as what colour are his favourite socks, or does he like pineapple on pizza. Moar investigative journalism please, IT!

they will remind people of homelesness, and show that "homelessness is very close to spirituality" and how through glorifying Jebus they will all be given a better life

Uh-oh. Perilously close to the guff Mother Teresa used to spout.

Anyway, so long as Tim gets to feel better about himself, that's the main thing.

Shrap

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

according to the sculptor Tim Schmalz they will remind people of homelesness, and show that "homelessness is very close to spirituality" and how through glorifying Jebus they will all be given a better life

His name is SCHMALZ??! Sounds like something WWN should be all over like a heavy rash. This stuff writes itself :pac:

Shrap

recedite wrote: »

I see a Hobo Jesus costs $22,000 plus shipping, which will be paid by a mystery benefactor.

Take the price of good quality bronze as about $3 per lb, that statue/bench would want to weigh in at about a tonne and a half at least if he's making any less than 11,000 PROFIT on each casting. That would be with comfortably paying off the forge as well.

Doesn't look like it would weigh even one tonne actually.

Shrap

Oh dear. I shouldn't have looked.

http://www.sculpturebytps.com/large-bronze-statues-and-sculptures/religious-statues/statues-of-jesus/

I'm especially taken with the "Celibacy, male and female" and the "immodestly dressed Adulterous woman". Enjoy.

Hotblack Desiato

This seems to have been kept very quiet in the Irish media for some reason, can't think why...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93765132&postcount=683

Priest comes out as gay during mass

TheChizler

Shrap wrote: »

Oh dear. I shouldn't have looked.

http://www.sculpturebytps.com/large-bronze-statues-and-sculptures/religious-statues/statues-of-jesus/

I'm especially taken with the "Celibacy, male and female" and the "immodestly dressed Adulterous woman". Enjoy.

I quite liked "Prodigal Son"!

robindch

Good Friday pub opening ban to remain this year

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/good-friday-pub-opening-ban-to-remain-this-year-660591.html

Irish Examiner wrote:

The Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald said she will consider lifting the ban on alcohol sales on Good Friday, however not in time for this year.

There have been calls from the tourist industry to allow pubs open, and rugby's Champions Cup quarter finals will also take place over the Easter weekend.

Frances Fitzgerald said she is considering the issue of Good Friday - but no decision will be made until later this year.

robindch

Meanwhile, down Vatican way, Pope Frank is having a conference entitled "Women’s Culture: Equality and Difference" at which women will be making no more than the odd presentation. And tea.

That quote from Ravasi about "'women directing the dance,' with men performing the steps" is a masterpiece of exclusionary diplospeak though. Must store it away for future use.

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/02/vatican-effort-to-talk-about-womens-issues-stirs-controversy/

Crux Now wrote:

ROME — Cardinals and other Catholic prelates from around the world will gather in Rome this week to discuss women’s issues such as domestic violence, plastic surgery, and women’s contributions to the Church.

However, there won’t be any women at the table when the conversation begins, with the Vatican’s latest effort to take up women’s issues raising eyebrows and stirring controversy. The Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture, headed by Italian Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, is holding its annual plenary assembly Feb. 4-7 to talk about “Women’s Culture: Equality and Difference.”

The assembly was officially presented this Monday at a Vatican news conference. Ravasi said women were invited to make presentations on various issues to be taken up in the plenary assembly, but since the members of the council are all men, that’s who will talk things out behind closed doors.

Ravasi defined the process as “women directing the dance,” with men performing the steps. [...]

Shrap

TheChizler wrote: »

I quite liked "Prodigal Son"!

Haha, yes. Hmm. Very...touching :rolleyes:

Brian Shanahan

Shrap wrote: »

Oh dear. I shouldn't have looked.

http://www.sculpturebytps.com/large-bronze-statues-and-sculptures/religious-statues/statues-of-jesus/

I'm especially taken with the "Celibacy, male and female" and the "immodestly dressed Adulterous woman". Enjoy.

"I knew you in the womb" is especially evil and psychopathic.

Nodin

He's probably just pinin for the Fjords
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31125338

One eyed Jack

Is the Irish Times poaching journalists from the Daily Sport now? The amount of hyperbole in this article is worse than the incident itself. Irish Times trying to whip up hysteria methinks -


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/limerick-school-apologises-for-charlie-hebdo-in-classroom-1.2093203


(It's not so much a hazard of belief, but I wasn't sure where else to put it as the Respect Start/Stop for religion thread had an ongoing discussion, and I didn't think it merited a new thread... and it sure as hell wasn't going in AH! :pac:).

Nodin

"Extremist Buddhists spearhead anti-Muslim sentiment in Burma.

Social media and free expression may be working against Muslim 4% of population."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/extremist-buddhists-spearhead-anti-muslim-sentiment-in-burma-1.2094512

robindch

Perhaps there should be a thread entitled "F'kin weird":

‘Sacred Sperm’ film explores ultra-Orthodox Jewish taboos

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/sacred-sperm-film-explores-ultra-orthodox-jewish-taboos/2015/02/06/baec5dac-add8-11e4-8876-460b1144cbc1_story.html

WaPo wrote:

JERUSALEM — Like so many parents, Ori Gruder was grappling with how to talk to his 10-year-old son about sex. Being a member of Israel’s ultra-Orthodox religious community, which tends to keep discussions of sexuality to a whisper, made the task even more difficult. So Gruder created “Sacred Sperm,” an hour-long documentary in which he tries to tackle the hard questions he can expect from his son. The film presents an intimate, informative and at times awkward look at the insular religious community and its approach to sexuality, fleshing out deeply entrenched taboos in the conservative society.

“What is it about that little sperm that looks like a tadpole and has everyone so hot and bothered?” Gruder ponders in his narration of the film. Gruder, a 44-year-old father of six who once worked for MTV Europe and didn’t become religious until age 30, gives the viewer a rare peek into private ultra-Orthodox lives, taking the camera into his own home, into ritual baths and circumcision ceremonies, to the religious school system and more. The film already has been shown in Jerusalem, London and California and is touring the U.S. festival circuit, including Atlanta on Feb. 15.

It begins with a visit to a rabbi, who grants Gruder his blessing to create the movie but implores him to do so “modestly.” Gruder’s wife expresses reservations about the project because it could elicit unwanted attention from the community. “Maybe that’s why I should do it, because people don’t talk about it,” Gruder responds. Under Orthodox Judaism, masturbation is forbidden, seen as a violation of an age-old covenant with God that promotes and encourages procreation. Sex is viewed as a sacred act and intercourse is permissible only after marriage. “One who spills his seed literally kills his sons,” Prosper Malka, one rabbi interviewed in the film, tells Gruder.

Gruder explains the theological reasoning behind the Jewish ban on spilling sperm: “The reproductive organ is called the ‘covenant.’ Spilling one’s seed is called ‘damaging the covenant.’ And abstaining from masturbation is called ‘guarding the covenant.’” While other world religions such as Roman Catholicism take a similarly dim view of masturbation and premarital sex, the film makes clear how much more ultra-rigorous the ultra-Orthodox Jews are. They live strictly regulated lives according to Jewish law that governs everything from diet to dress. Procreation is seen as a “mitzvah,” or commandment from God. For this reason, large families are common in Orthodox communities.

But talking freely and openly about sex is taboo. Many Orthodox Jews do not touch members of the opposite sex except their spouses, and the sexes are usually separated in school and prayer. Sex education is largely not taught in schools, although young brides and grooms are given counseling before they wed. Gruder brings viewers into an education session for a soon-to-be-married young man, in which the perplexed bridegroom is told that “all positions are permitted, but our sages tend to say that the best way is for the husband to be on top of the wife.” The film details the precautions that many ultra-Orthodox men take to prevent themselves from becoming aroused. It’s not merely a matter of averting their eyes from women.

One rabbi, longtime friend Yisrael Aharon Itzkovitz, holds up his baggy white underpants — and explains he buys them a few sizes too big, because snug-fitting undies might stimulate the wearer by accident. Many ultra-Orthodox men do not touch themselves when they urinate, Itzkovitz explains, even if that means they misfire. Gruder describes his own journey from secular to Orthodox Jew, recounting the guilt he felt knowing that he previously had sinned. To repent, he said he has taken seemingly countless ritual baths, fasted, given to charity and rolled around naked in snow at a ski resort in northern Israel. He said that was a purifying experience.

Judaism expert Menachem Friedman said the movie, which was shot in Israel and Ukraine, offered a unique “anthropological window” into the ultra-Orthodox world. “It is about a very intimate subject which nobody talks about,” he said. Gruder expressed hope that the film would help ultra-Orthodox Jews to become better understood by outsiders. “It’s a first look into a keyhole that needs to be opened more,” he said.

obplayer

robindch wrote: »

Perhaps there should be a thread entitled "F'kin weird":

‘Sacred Sperm’ film explores ultra-Orthodox Jewish taboos

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/sacred-sperm-film-explores-ultra-orthodox-jewish-taboos/2015/02/06/baec5dac-add8-11e4-8876-460b1144cbc1_story.html

Many ultra-Orthodox men do not touch themselves when they urinate, Itzkovitz explains, even if that means they misfire.

Holy Sacred Sperm, they must be delightful toilets! :eek:

Shrap

Many ultra-Orthodox men do not touch themselves when they urinate, Itzkovitz explains, even if that means they misfire. Gruder describes his own journey from secular to Orthodox Jew, recounting the guilt he felt knowing that he previously had sinned. To repent, he said he has taken seemingly countless ritual baths, fasted, given to charity and rolled around naked in snow at a ski resort in northern Israel. He said that was a purifying experience.

Is it just me, or in other people's experiences too, trying NOT to think about something merely heightens awareness of "the thing you're not meant to be thinking about"?

I imagine it to be rather like self-flagellation, or mortification of the flesh (reddener!) as penance for the atonement of sins, being closely akin to sadomasochism - "Oh, I must be punished for my dirty thoughts, and whilst I'm being punished I must reflect on how dirty those thoughts are and perhaps associate them with punishment". Yeaaah. That works for me....MmmHmm.

recedite

obplayer wrote: »

Holy Sacred Sperm, they must be delightful toilets! :eek:

They could utilise the "sit and sprinkle" tactic, as per the muslims.
Muslim men are allowed to pee while standing if they can be sure of directing operations satisfactorily with their left hand, but generally the sitting position is recommended. A toilet that is facing north or south should be selected, so that the pee-er is not facing Mecca, or turning his back on it.
More details here.

The one thing a Muslim should avoid is those nasty public toilet urinals, as used by shameless western infidels, making them "worse than animals".

Its rules like these that prove the beauty and perfection of Islam. So they say anyway.

German men still have the legal right to behave like animal infidels though.

Brian Shanahan

recedite wrote: »

A toilet that is facing north or south should be selected, so that the pee-er is not facing Mecca, or turning his back on it.
More details here.

But what if one lives lives directly north of Mecca, in Medina say, what does a good muslim man do then?

robindch

There was a book whose title I forget, but which was written by an ex-pat living in Saudi - it told the story of how his architectural + project management bureau had designed a block of flats for somewhere or other up country, and had the plans assessed and subsequently passed for compliance with sharia law by the mutaween, the Saudi's religious police.

Building commenced and in due course, as they were finishing off the fitting out, the mutaween appeared back on the scene to explain that they'd erred in approving the designs and that the complex's entire sewage system would need to be reassessed, and possibly redesigned, removed and reinstalled as some of the pipes may have been flowing in the direction of Mecca.

Following the delivery of a number of ex-gratia payments to local officials, the design was reassessed and while it was found that some of the pipes did indeed flow very approximately in the direction of Mecca, that owing to the curvature of the Earth, the vector extended from the guilty pipes passed by at a sufficient distance above and to one side of the Kaaba, that the original designs were indeed, correct.

#religion

RikuoAmero

robindch wrote: »

There was a book whose title I forget, but which was written by an ex-pat living in Saudi - it told the story of how his architectural + project management bureau had designed a block of flats for somewhere or other up country, and had the plans assessed and subsequently passed for compliance with sharia law by the mutaween, the Saudi's religious police.

Building commenced and in due course, as they were finishing off the fitting out, the mutaween appeared back on the scene to explain that they'd erred in approving the designs and that the complex's entire sewage system would need to be reassessed, and possibly redesigned, removed and reinstalled as some of the pipes may have been flowing in the direction of Mecca.

Following the delivery of a number of ex-gratia payments to local officials, the design was reassessed and while it was found that some of the pipes did indeed flow very approximately in the direction of Mecca, that owing to the curvature of the Earth, the vector extended from the guilty pipes passed by at a sufficient distance above and to one side of the Kaaba, that the original designs were indeed, correct.

#religion

Facepalm. They have to install pipes in a certain direction? Oh for fig's fake...

pauldla

RikuoAmero wrote: »

Facepalm. They have to install pipes in a certain direction? Oh for fig's fake...

Not that big a deal, it seems, once certain payments have been made. It's an old game, baby; an oldie but a goldie, played since the Oracle of Delphi, from here to eternity.

EDIT: My own (marvellous, if I may say) comments above put me in mind of something I was reading during the week: the business of Buddhism in modern China. There's still money in them thar prayers.

http://www.theworldofchinese.com/article/the-business-of-buddhism-pt-1/

recedite

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

But what if one lives lives directly north of Mecca, in Medina say, what does a good muslim man do then?

Well then the jax should be east or west facing. North/south in Ireland though.

TheChizler

recedite wrote: »

Well then the jax should be east or west facing. North/south in Ireland though.

What happens in the Tuamotus Islands in French Polynesia? Can sewage not flow down there? Or is it a surface direction thing only? In which case you'd presumably have to keep spinning. I must know!

silverharp

Can you imagine the problems Howard in big bang theory would have trying to make the waste system on the iss Muslim friendly....

recedite

TheChizler wrote: »

What happens in the Tuamotus Islands in French Polynesia? Can sewage not flow down there...

Can you direct all future enquiries to The Chief Mufti please.

Nodin

"Actress Shirley MacLaine has drawn criticism following a series of ill-considered comments on the holocaust and Stephen Hawking."

"MacLaine made the comments in her recently-published memoir, in which she questioned if the 6m victims of the holocaust 'brought it on themselves'. She offered the theory that they were atoning in this life for crimes committed in past ones.
She continued her offensive tirade by suggesting that cosmologist Stephen Hawking 'subconsciously' 'gave himself' motor neurone disease in order to ‘free his mind’ from the needs of his body."
..............................................
"What if most Holocaust victims were balancing their karma from ages before, when they were Roman soldiers putting Christians to death, the Crusaders who murdered millions in the name of Christianity, soldiers with Hannibal, or those who stormed across the Near East with Alexander? The energy of killing is endless and will be experienced by the killer and the killee.’"
http://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/downton-abbey-star-shirley-maclaine-ignites-fury-with-holocaust-comments-30989599.html

...or what if you were off yer rocker Shirley? what then?

Pherekydes

Sad to see someone you admired as a kid losing their marbles.

PopePalpatine

Nodin wrote: »

"Actress Shirley MacLaine has drawn criticism following a series of ill-considered comments on the holocaust and Stephen Hawking."

"MacLaine made the comments in her recently-published memoir, in which she questioned if the 6m victims of the holocaust 'brought it on themselves'. She offered the theory that they were atoning in this life for crimes committed in past ones.
She continued her offensive tirade by suggesting that cosmologist Stephen Hawking 'subconsciously' 'gave himself' motor neurone disease in order to ‘free his mind’ from the needs of his body."
..............................................
"What if most Holocaust victims were balancing their karma from ages before, when they were Roman soldiers putting Christians to death, the Crusaders who murdered millions in the name of Christianity, soldiers with Hannibal, or those who stormed across the Near East with Alexander? The energy of killing is endless and will be experienced by the killer and the killee.’"
http://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/downton-abbey-star-shirley-maclaine-ignites-fury-with-holocaust-comments-30989599.html

...or what if you were off yer rocker Shirley? what then?

That reminds me of when Ken Barlow's actor said victims of sexual abuse were "paying for past crimes". Disgusting.

Is it just me or is she asking philosophical and hypothetical questions in that extract and not suggesting that it's true?

I've no other evidence other than the two quotes above to go on, but how else can you ask the questions? Are we to do it without specific references?

Is the proviso "What If" meaningless there?
edit, it's not a proviso but are we just ignoring it?

Pherekydes

Sometimes, 'what if' questions are interesting and even useful.

'What if the holocaust victims chose that life for themselves to balance karma from previous lives?' is not interesting or useful. It's astonishingly offensive. Victim blaming at its worst.

The idea of 'karma' is crudely close to victim blaming though. Are we not to give examples if/when discussing it?

If she'd written "Hypothetically, if karma were a real thing, one could argue that... " instead of "what if...", would that make the above phrases more/less offensive / no different?

Brian Shanahan

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it just me or is she asking philosophical and hypothetical questions in that extract and not suggesting that it's true?

No, she's spouting offensive claptrap, and knowing that its offensive is posing it as a "what if?" question, in a feeble attempt to try and show herself to not be bigoted.

It's like when a racist goes off on a rant about "darkies" and realising they're sitting beside an African says "no offence meant".

Brian Shanahan

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

No, she's spouting offensive claptrap, and knowing that its offensive is posing it as a "what if?" question, in a feeble attempt to try and show herself to not be bigoted.

It's like when a racist goes off on a rant about "darkies" and realising they're sitting beside an African says "no offence meant".

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea of 'karma' is crudely close to victim blaming though. Are we not to give examples if/when discussing it?

If she'd written "Hypothetically, if karma were a real thing, one could argue that... " instead of "what if...", would that make the above phrases more/less offensive / no different?

would be interested on your thoughts here.

Brian Shanahan

Deleted User wrote: »

would be interested on your thoughts here.

My personal ideas on karma is that it is essentially a "blame the victim" mentality. If you look at societies which have a karmic philosophy they are pretty much all highly stratified or they have taken their ideas from other highly stratified societies. For example, the main exemplar of karma is hindu India, where there are five castes (which are basicly immutable from generation) ranging from the warriors and priests at the top, having access the greatest wealth, best food, best land, best women, slaves &c. to make their lives easier to the dalits, the untouchalbes at the bottoms, whose lives under hindu systems aren't worth ****.

Shrap

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

My personal ideas on karma is that it is essentially a "blame the victim" mentality. If you look at societies which have a karmic philosophy they are pretty much all highly stratified or they have taken their ideas from other highly stratified societies.

It's actually very very similar to what that Imam was saying (as in the Imam, the Jesuit and the Humanist walk into a bar debate about Stephen Fry on Newstalk). I don't think the notion of a person being responsible for their own hardship in this life being down to the ...ahem...."possibility" that they or their ancestors may be having to pay back past-life sins is exclusive to those saying it's "karma".

silverharp

dont know if this still goes on today but amusing all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmlYe2KS0-Y

looksee

I think that is kinda sad. It is no more ridiculous than going to Lourdes or Knock, or watching a statue in a grotto to see it move. At least they have the excuse of not having the technological education to know what is happening.

Brian Shanahan

silverharp wrote: »

dont know if this still goes on today but amusing all the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmlYe2KS0-Y

John Frum.

There's cargo cults all over the Pacific actually. There is even one on Tanna, the same island that houses John Frum, that has adopted Phil the Greek as a god (this despite his undisguised and well known racism).

Pawwed Rig

looksee wrote: »

I think that is kinda sad. It is no more ridiculous than going to Lourdes or Knock, or watching a statue in a grotto to see it move. At least they have the excuse of not having the technological education to know what is happening.

I remember as a child standing in the rain for hours looking at a statue in Cork waiting for it to move. Watching planes take off and land would have been a better day out for that 7 year old

Kivaro

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I remember as a child standing in the rain for hours looking at a statue in Cork waiting for it to move.

Obviously, you were not doing it right.
You should have waited until hypothermia set in, and then all types of strange things would have happened.

Turtwig

Nope, amateurs. He just had to believe with a truly open heart. That's how we came to see it. We can't show him how because he has to experience it for himself. All he had to do was believe and he'd see the statue move. As well as numerous others glorious miracles!