The Hazards of Belief

GLaDOS

johnmacward wrote: »

Last part of that article...



According to several media reports most of us probably heard, many Haitian's believe the quake was caused BY God, in punishment for past sins, hence the above message is of use to them, they think the head man is pissed and he ain't remembering there goodness.

What's interesting is the kind of doubling up of religious beliefs. The solar bible crowd believe that God didn't cause it but was there for them at all times in spirit (a bit useless as it turns out), those Haitian's believe that in fact God was definitely there, angered and in turn caused the quake.

There's gonna be one hell of a fight when each party explains themselves.

God definitely didn't forget them so, but it was more of a god strikes back sort of thing

pH

Oh dear, the hazards of ... atheism ... we're not so smug now!

Ms Booth QC, sitting as a judge at Inner London Crown Court last Thursday, told Shamso Miah, 25, that she would suspend his sentence because he was "a religious man", and had "not been in trouble before".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cherie-lets-attacker-go-free-1877351.html

So religion has its advantages, especially if you're guilty of a crime and being sentenced by Cherie Booth.

Dades

pH wrote: »

So religion has its advantages, especially if you're guilty of a crime and being sentenced by Cherie Booth.

The question is, if you were in the dock, would you tell her you were a good catholic just like her!

(Or would the game have been up when you refused to swear on a bible )

bogwalrus

really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

Coriolanus

bogwalrus wrote: »

really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

I was always told that it was a sin to drink holy water.
















I did anyway.

Galvasean

bogwalrus wrote: »

really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

Perhaps better off in the Hazards of Belief thread?

sink

bogwalrus wrote: »

really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

That's not funny. Regardless of their religious beliefs they did nothing to deserve being poisoned, especially the children. Laughing malevolently at others misfortune is despicable.

bogwalrus

i find humor in the fact you can tell someone the tap water is poisonous, but when they hear it has been blessed it some how is not dangerous to drink.

besides none of the people were that harmed. just some diorreah and cramps.

a life's lesson learned the hard way imo.

sink

bogwalrus wrote: »

i find humor in the fact you can tell someone the tap water is poisonous, but when they hear it has been blessed it some how is not dangerous to drink.

besides none of the people were that harmed. just some diorreah and cramps.

a life's lesson learned the hard way imo.

They drank from a well not a tap and it stated that this was typical. I trust the locals would not expect the well water to be contaminated if they drink from it regularly. Nowhere in the article does it suggest that they believed blessing contaminated water would make it safe to drink.

robindch

bogwalrus wrote: »

really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.

Russian drinking water is notoriously unsafe and they must be some right tulips to have ignored every ounce of their reason and experience to do whatever they did. St Petersburg's supply is famously infected with Giardia, and it wouldn't be much of a surprise to hear that Amoebic Dysentery is on the prowl way out east in Irkutsk, at least in the smaller lakes and streams (the bone-chillingly cold waters of the stupendous Lake Baikal still seem to be safe to drink).

Anyhow, neither Giardiasis, nor Amoebic Dysentery, nor any of the other water-borne parasites, are all that amusing for those whom they affect, nor for anybody either downwind or within earshot, so the I've moved this post to the Hazards thread.

bogwalrus

It does fit the hazards of belief thread quite well.


I think i find this amusing for another reason. that i feel i should mention.

My grandmother for years had problems with her eyes.

They kept bringing her to the doctors because her eyes would get very infected and all sorts of problems such as conjuctivitis would occur from now and then.

I think it was last year when my mom was with her and noticed she was applying holy water she got from lourdes on each eye lid before she went to bed.

You would think my mom would have put 1+1 together but no, she is very holy herself.

She did however say it to her sister (non believer) in a passing comment and as far as i can remember my aunt made my mom cry as she was going mental as to why she did not stop her etc........

In summary, religious belief can blind people from the truth and prevent logic from attending the meetings in the decision make parts of the brain.

Dades

This article is textbook Hazards of Belief material. :pac:

sink wrote: »

Nowhere in the article does it suggest that they believed blessing contaminated water would make it safe to drink.

Semantics!

The Article wrote:

Many Russians consider any water obtained on Epiphany to be holy. The water is typically bottled for consumption later

robindch

bogwalrus wrote: »

They kept bringing her to the doctors because her eyes would get very infected and all sorts of problems such as conjuctivitis would occur from now and then. I think it was last year when my mom was with her and noticed she was applying holy water she got from lourdes on each eye lid before she went to bed.

My sympathies -- this story reminds me of an elderly relative of mine who was off in India a couple of years back. She visited a catholic nunnery and was invited to drink from the local holy well, which she did, knowing full well that it would be safe because it had been blessed by a local catholic priest (who, was and is defending himself against convincing allegations of money-laundering). Needless to say, my relative caught Amoebic Dysentery and came quite close to dying a number of times over the following six weeks or so.

It would be nice if people weren't so bloody stupid, especially when others are left to pick up the pieces.

<grunt>!

Turtwig

When an atheist has too much time on his hands...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DMWuQb8DLg

Turtwig

http://www.4fm.ie/profile.asp?id=1
(Monday)

1:37:00 It begins. Best advice is to download mp3 and skip to that time frame as the good folks of 4fm don't seem to allow the option of skipping ahead.

Points of Note : McGurk accuses PZ description of the Communion Cracker as crap.
An this other bloke, Mullen...well maybe that worth a separate thread. Intellectual vacuum of PZ's argument. Hmm..

Anyways, it reminded me of something.
Many people have an intolerance towards gluten and I know a Catholic who, in the not so distant past, was practically chastised for stating that the Holy Communion seemed to be making her feel sick. Luckily, times have changed and people have, in general, become more tolerant since. It does make me often wonder how many ailments was society intolerant towards.

She's still a devout Catholic btw.

Dades

Malty_T wrote: »

http://www.4fm.ie/profile.asp?id=1

1:37:00 It begins. Best advice is to download mp3 and skip to that time frame as the good folks of 4fm don't seem to allow the option of skipping ahead.

What day, Malty? Or do you have a link to the archive?

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

What day, Malty? Or do you have a link to the archive?

Ooops forgot.:o
Monday.:)

Buddah

Newbie here so if I repeat what has been said a zillion times before, forgive me, as should all good christians.(joke)

The man walking into the lions and being killed, that happened before in Windsor Safari Park a decade or so ago. A man climbed into an enclosure and headed toward the lions reading from a bible. They ate him.

I'm one of those people who change their religious beliefs at the drop of a hat. I'm an atheist at the moment, don't ask, but I have been involved in Burn Again Christians, but I left them when they attacked women who had had abortions.

I became a Mormon, briefly, because I was infatuated with one of the missionaries, a gorgeous looking Yank, who was also good fun. That didn't last long either though because at my 2nd class, he (the love of my life) stated that all homosexuals are evil, as are alll Hell's Angels, and will never be taken into heaven.

Another decade or so before I had Jehovah Witnesses calling on a regular basis. The thing I liked about them was that they never went to war, ever, because of the blood thing, which is a good thing. But just about everything else they believed in was awful. Silly and boring.

Like most Irish I am a lapsed Catholic, but what can I say that has not already been said a thousand times, and as a mother, no scratch that, as a normal human being, I cannot fathom anyone who would torture children as was done, and covered up by our good bishops, cardinals and popes.

I'm more buddhist now I suppose, and I try to study and understand it as much as I can. But its a hard religion for Westerners to stick to, with all the distractions we have at our disposal.

Looking back at this post, I see that I am probably like most people in that if things are going ok I don't give God a thought. If things are going bad and God does not intervene which He bloody well never does, then I'm an atheist again.

If God does exist I cannot see the point of it. Earthquakes, murders, wars, mayham, and its always the poor and the innocent who suffer. So, no, I don't believe in God.

At this time.

Turtwig

Buddah wrote: »

Newbie here so if I repeat what has been said a zillion times before, forgive me, as should all good christians.(joke)

The man walking into the lions and being killed, that happened before in Windsor Safari Park a decade or so ago. A man climbed into an enclosure and headed toward the lions reading from a bible. They ate him.

I'm one of those people who change their religious beliefs at the drop of a hat. I'm an atheist at the moment, don't ask, but I have been involved in Burn Again Christians, but I left them when they attacked women who had had abortions.

I became a Mormon, briefly, because I was infatuated with one of the missionaries, a gorgeous looking Yank, who was also good fun. That didn't last long either though because at my 2nd class, he (the love of my life) stated that all homosexuals are evil, as are alll Hell's Angels, and will never be taken into heaven.

Another decade or so before I had Jehovah Witnesses calling on a regular basis. The thing I liked about them was that they never went to war, ever, because of the blood thing, which is a good thing. But just about everything else they believed in was awful. Silly and boring.

Like most Irish I am a lapsed Catholic, but what can I say that has not already been said a thousand times, and as a mother, no scratch that, as a normal human being, I cannot fathom anyone who would torture children as was done, and covered up by our good bishops, cardinals and popes.

I'm more buddhist now I suppose, and I try to study and understand it as much as I can. But its a hard religion for Westerners to stick to, with all the distractions we have at our disposal.

Looking back at this post, I see that I am probably like most people in that if things are going ok I don't give God a thought. If things are going bad and God does not intervene which He bloody well never does, then I'm an atheist again.

If God does exist I cannot see the point of it. Earthquakes, murders, wars, mayham, and its always the poor and the innocent who suffer. So, no, I don't believe in God.

At this time.

Curious, curious

God existence is dependent on time.

Buddah

Malty_T wrote: »

Curious, curious

God existence is dependent on time.

No Malty, God's existence is dependent on moods! When I speak of God's existence I am not saying that God exists, because I do not know if He exists, I am merely saying that at certain times, my belief system undergoes changes, and desperately I search around for some other belief system that at that time suits the dilemma I find myself in.

For instance, the Born Again Christian period came along when I was thinking about walking out of my marriage, giving it up as a huge mistake, and starting afresh, with my child, elsewhere. The Born Again Christians came knocking and they brought (what appeared to be at that time) a sense of happy families, of marriage having to be worked on, of marriage being for life. I wanted that. I thought it would help my marriage, but my husband did not want it. When I say it, I mean the Church interfering because in his mind nothing was wrong. Admittedly me joining the Mormons was a moment of madness at a time when I was lonely and needed contact with someone who thought I was "special". Of course the only thing "special" about me was that I was in a good job and 10% of my earnings would go to them!

And so it goes on. Buddhis however, which does not believe in a God, but believes that each life is a learning curve, and being reborn as a human being is like winning the lotto because it is the only chance we have of perfecting ourselves, morally, even though it may take eons. But it is entirely up to us to do the work ourselves.

I do not believe in God, because if I did, I would have to believe that this being was omnipotent, and hence is allowing all the horrors inflicted on
our world by ourselves, because he chooses not to stop them. He/She, does not give a toss when children die of starvation or lack of clean water. He does not give a toss that some of the evilest people that exist in this world are the wealthiest and the most powerful of people.

I love the teachings that purported come from that man Jesus. So I love Jesus, but he was a human being. Like Buddha, like Ghandi, good, peace loving, gentle men.

robindch

Buddah wrote: »

I love the teachings that purported come from that man Jesus. So I love Jesus, but he was a human being. Like Buddha, like Ghandi, good, peace loving, gentle men.

Not all that gentle, in all fairness. Take a look at Matthew 10:34-37:

Matthew, quoting Jesus wrote:

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

And Luke 12:49-53:

Luke, quoting Jesus wrote:

I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law

Jesus, a bit like Lenin, wasn't always the good, peace-loving and gentle guy that his followers would like us to believe.

cavedave

Damn must read more. Here is a nice video from Betrand Russell to appease the angry atheist literacy gods

There follows a short repitition.

Complaint after Cherie Booth spares religious man jail

Sitting as a judge, Ms Booth - wife of former Prime Minister Tony Blair - said she would suspend his sentence on the basis of his religious belief.

The National Secular Society claims her attitude was discriminatory and unjust.

Dades

^^ Less typie more readie.

cavedave

In Internet Era, an Unwilling Lord for New Age Followers

A native of London now living on Potrero Hill in San Francisco, Mr. Patel suddenly finds himself an unlikely object of worship, proclaimed the messiah Maitreya by followers of the New Age religious sect Share International.

Galvasean

cavedave wrote: »

Complaint after Cherie Booth spares religious man jail

Wow, what religion was he, Muslim? I'm converting. I want me one of them literal 'get out of jail free' cards.

robindch

Looks like the wheels are beginning to come off in Germany:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,676497,00.html

Galvasean

So much for the "It wasn't the Church's fault, it's the pervy Irish disposition!" argument. :rolleyes:

Not sure whether to put this here or under humour.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8508077.stm

An Arab country's ambassador to Dubai has had his marriage contract annulled after discovering the bride was cross-eyed and had facial hair.

The woman had worn an Islamic veil, known as the niqab, on the few occasions the couple had met.

The envoy, who has not been identified, told a Sharia court her mother had tricked him by showing him pictures of the bride's sister, Gulf News reported.

He only discovered the deception when he lifted the woman's veil to kiss her.

The court had annulled the marriage contract but rejected a $130,000 (£83,000) compensation claim for gifts he had bought his intended, the report said.

Dades

Deleted User wrote: »

"An Arab country's ambassador to Dubai has had his marriage contract annulled after discovering the bride was cross-eyed and had facial hair."

Pics or gtfo! *shudder*

Stercus Accidit

Its akin to marrying a prisoner after a relationship conducted entirely through the post.

The use of a prisoner as an analogy for women living under these conditions is no coincidence.

cavedave

Brain surgery boosts spirituality

Removing part of the brain can induce inner peace, according to researchers from Italy. Their study provides the strongest evidence to date that spiritual thinking arises in, or is limited by, specific brain areas.

iUseVi

You've probably all seen this but for those who haven't. (It's blocked on youtube in Ireland, this is an alternative.) Hitchens + Fry on the ten commandments.

I've never seen Stephen Fry quite so angry, but I love these two. They make an awesome team.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc5pha_christopher-hitchens-and-stephen-fr_shortfilms

(I don't think this has been posted elsewhere, if it has sorry, mods please delete)

Flamed Diving

iUseVi wrote: »

It's blocked on youtube in Ireland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpGyHJZ9b0

iUseVi

Flamed Diving wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpGyHJZ9b0

Oh thats the full debate. I posted the fun little interviews that happened after.

Flamed Diving

Uganda cleric shows gay porn film
An anti-gay clergyman in Uganda has screened gay pornography in his church, in an attempt to gain support for proposed anti-homosexuality laws.

"We are in the process of legislation and we have to educate ourselves about what homosexuals do," Pastor Martin Ssempa told the BBC.

Gay rights activists suggested the pastor "needed medical help".

The anti-gay bill, which proposes the death penalty for some gay people, has caused outrage around the world.

US President Barack Obama described the proposals as "odious".

Moral defender?

Homosexuality is already against the law in Uganda and punishable by lengthy jail terms.

But supporters of the bill, including the pastor, want the punishments ramped up.

"In Africa, what you do in your bedroom affects our clan, it affects our tribe, it affects our nation," he told the BBC's Network Africa programme.

He showed the pornography to about 300 people in his church.

The pastor had planned to lead a march in the capital, Kampala, but was forced to abandon the plans because of "security concerns".

Monica Mbaru, from the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, roundly condemned the pastor's behaviour.

"You cannot screen pornographic material to your followers and then want to argue that you are upholding society's morals," she told the BBC.

"I think we are dealing with someone who needs medical help."

The anti-gay proposals garnered wide support among Ugandan MPs, but President Yoweri Museveni recently hinted that he was coming under international pressure to scrap the private member's bill.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/8521471.stm

Published: 2010/02/18 09:23:40 GMT

© BBC MMX

Sad...

robindch

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Sad...

Quite sad, but if this guy is setting a precedent, then you'd wonder what kind of videos the Vatican showed to Irish bishops this week. For their own good, of course!

Dades

He showed the pornography to about 300 people in his church...

... before going home with it under his arm and closing the curtains - Ted Haggard style.

Galvasean

iUseVi wrote: »

You've probably all seen this but for those who haven't. (It's blocked on youtube in Ireland, this is an alternative.) Hitchens + Fry on the ten commandments.

I've never seen Stephen Fry quite so angry, but I love these two. They make an awesome team.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc5pha_christopher-hitchens-and-stephen-fr_shortfilms

Wow, even when she edits the videos herself she can't seem to win.

The Mad Hatter

Just saw this on Pharyngula. I shudder. Worse, possibly, than the guy who waterboarded his four-year-old daughter because she didn't know her alphabet.

(Also, these people stand so firmly against education it's a wonder they try to enforce it corporally at home...)

The Schatzes were arrested Saturday morning after their adopted daughter, Lydia, age 7, stopped breathing. She was subsequently pronounced dead.

Her 11-year-old sister, Zariah Schatz, remains in critical condition at a Sacramento children's hospital, though she is showing some signs of recovery. The two were adopted at the same time with an infant girl, now 3, from the same African orphanage about three years ago.

Prosecutors allege the two victims were subjected to "hours" of corporal punishment by their parents on successive days last Thursday and Friday with a quarter-inch-wide length of rubber or plastic tubing, which police reportedly recovered from the parents' bedroom.

Police allege that the younger girl was being disciplined for mis-pronouncing a word during a home-school reading lesson the day before she died.

The Mad Hatter

iUseVi wrote: »

You've probably all seen this but for those who haven't. (It's blocked on youtube in Ireland, this is an alternative.) Hitchens + Fry on the ten commandments.

I've never seen Stephen Fry quite so angry, but I love these two. They make an awesome team.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc5pha_christopher-hitchens-and-stephen-fr_shortfilms

(I don't think this has been posted elsewhere, if it has sorry, mods please delete)

Here's Hitchens discussing the ten commandments in more detail, and really, really taking the guy apart.

robindch

As if the Vatican's current problems with Ireland weren't enough, it seems that of the country's top ten borrowers named last week, four were major contributors to the Vatican. Full story here:

Irish Independent wrote:

NAMA-BOUND property developers Derek Quinlan, Treasury Holdings' Johnny Ronan, Ballymore Properties' Sean Mulryan and Paddy McKillen, one of the so called "Anglo 10", have all emerged as major donors to the Vatican.

The property developers were named in the top 10 borrowers whose loans were bound for Nama in the first wave of transfers last week. Some €16bn worth of loans associated with the 10 biggest borrowers are set to be transferred shortly.

The Patrons of the Arts in the Vatican Museums published recently reveals that these troubled property developers provided 'financial support' for the restoration of the historic Pauline Chapel in the Vatican Museum.

Fellow donors included former Anglo Irish bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick and the controversial former boss of Irish Nationwide Michael Fingleton. Other donors included digicel owner Denis O'Brien and William Bollinger, the Irish co-founder of the €3bn Egerton Capital Hedge Fund.

Close to €9m was raised from donors for the restoration project. The donors were given special medallions after a private mass in the Pauline chapel, celebrated by Cardinal Lajolo last July. Solid gold 'Michelangelo' medallions were given to donors who had given more than $1m, with silver 'Raphael' medallions for donors of $500,000 plus. 'Bramante' medals were presented to donors of $250,000 or more. A marble plaque listing the names of all 26 donors, including the Irish builders and bankers, was unveiled in the chapel.

Delirium

Truly depressing story I happened upon yesterday.

An American couple, who had adopted 3 Liberian kids beat a 7 year old child to death for mispronouncing a word.

Even though English wasn't her first language :mad::mad:

Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz adopted three kids from an orphanage in Liberia to live with their other six kids in a remote area outside Sacramento. As it turns out, the children might have been better off remaining in that lawless African sh*thole...

The Schatz's homeschooled their nine children and grew their own food. Which would all be well and good if they weren't also followers of nutbag Tennessee evangelist Michael Pearl. His schtick is to teach parents to beat their children so they become more obedient to God and family.

Apparently their 7-year-old daughter Lydia was struggling with one of her homeschool lessons and she mispronounced a word. That might be expected since the girl's formative years were spent in Liberia. But the Schatz's decided that God wanted her beaten. So they did.

Police say Elizabeth held the girl down while Kevin beat her on the back with a plastic tube for hours. The torture caused massive tissue damage.
When Lydia stopped breathing, Elizabeth called 911. Medical workers resuscitated her at a nearby hospital. But Lydia died later Saturday morning.

Police also found that another 11-year-old adopted girl had been beaten for lying and supposedly being a bad influence on Lydia. She is now in critical condition at a Sacramento hospital suffering from kidney failure due to her injuries.

Detectives found a 15-inch piece of tubing believed to have been used in the beatings. Both parents have been charged with murder.

Source

MOD NOTE!
MOVED TO THE HAZARDS THREAD
Dades

vibe666

its alright though, i'm sure god told them to do it so it's okay. she'll be in heaven now learning how to pronounce things correctly. :rolleyes:

/waits for religious types to post that it's nothing to do with 'their' religion and distance themselves from yet another instance of child abuse and murder at the hands of the religiously inclined.

Shazanne

My God - that is an horrific story. However, I feel people like this are hiding behind God and using him as an excuse to carry out their actions. No matter how much you swallowed the preachings of anyone, abusing a child like that would have to be something you would be inclined to do anyway and not because someone told you to.

hiorta

This is the result of religious nutters, who in turn, are the result of greater religious nutters, believing fervently that they are 'right' in their god's eyes.

No doubt sincere and well meaning, as they might see things, it is the barmy religionists who evangelise and 'propagate' such nonsense who must be brought under the Law and made accountable for their criminality.

Theologians and their wee helpers always assume that people can be made to fit into their narrow mind-set convieniently overlooking the simple fact that we are all uniquely different - there is no mind-set that can possibly cover all.

Religions spawn mindless clones - intelligent people avoid like it is a rabid plague.
The poor children!

robindch

And while Mark Steel is laughing at the various churches and their silly pretensions, Sharon Owens delivers one serious broadside against the Vatican's culture of secrecy and self-protection.

Sharon Owens wrote:

When I was a young Catholic child in the 1970s, I was brought up to reject the British Royal family and everything it stood for: the class system, primogeniture, social elitism, the pomp and ceremony, the ritual, and the obscene wealth and privilege.

Well, guess what? I saw it all a few days ago when the Irish bishops were lining up in grand robes to kiss the hand of Pope Benedict. Yes, the Vatican surely leaves the House of Windsor in the halfpenny place when it comes to elitism, pomp and ceremony. I could have wept with frustration - except I never expected a full and frank apology from Pope Benedict. I wasn't expecting an admission of guilt either, because such a statement might open the floodgates of litigation. And I'm sure the Vatican doesn't want to lose any more money to the abuse survivors than it already has.

I'm sure the Vatican is hoping the unmarked graves of the Magdalene slaves will soon be covered over once more. I'm sure the Vatican is hoping the innocent young children they turned into bitter alcoholics and suicidal depressives will just hurry up and die and not collect any compensation.

No doubt when the leaders of the Catholic Church pray these days, they pray for the tidal wave of abuse scandals to dry up and be forgotten. After all, the orphanages, industrial schools and laundries have all closed down now. So they cannot send along the 'cruelty man' to scoop poor children off the streets like the child-catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. They cannot force cheeky boys to dig potatoes in the rain and they cannot force pretty girls to hand wash bloody sheets from the hospitals any more. And it's a criminal offence these days to beat a dyslexic girl with a leather belt or to punch a stubborn boy until he is unconscious. So, as I said, the potential for fresh scandal is greatly diminished.

The nationalists of my youth used to say 'God Bless Ireland' and, 'God Save Ireland' - they were referring to 700 years of British colonialism, the Famine, Mass Rocks, discrimination against Catholics in jobs and housing and the blood-and-thunder marching bands of the Orange Order.

What a great pity they didn't think to question the tyranny of the Catholic Church while they were about it. The church that forbade birth control, yet despised big families of starving, barefoot children. The church that encouraged education yet hated free-thinkers. The church that revered Mary the Mother of God, yet treated all mortal women as sinners and whores. The church that raved about poverty and humility, yet lined the walls of the Vatican with priceless works of art.

The church that took the pocket money off children during Lent, yet covered up the brutal rape and buggery of little boys and girls for more than 50 years.

And I wondered, looking at those grovelling bishops kissing Pope Benedict's hand, do they really understand, even now, why there is a crisis in the church? Have they any idea of how the survivors of abuse must feel?

Have they no empathy whatsoever for the unnamed Magdalene slaves who died of exhaustion or malnutrition or a broken heart and were quietly buried behind those high stone walls? I'm beginning to think only snobs, sociopaths and narcissists are drawn to religious life in the first place, for I have yet to see a flicker of shame, regret or sadness from any bishops. If Jesus were here today he would rage against the Vatican for what it has done to the people of Ireland.

He would roar and weep and pull down the wall of silence that has been built around the crimes of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Jesus would smash the headstones condemning the Magdalenes as 'penitents' even in death. He would throw open the doors of the Vatican and tell survivors of abuse to carry away any art and gold they can lay their hands on. He would demolish the grand cathedrals and say Masses in the open air. He would beg forgiveness on bended knees from the men, women, children and ghosts of Ireland. But I can't see Pope Benedict doing any of that. Can you?

iUseVi

Not sure if this is better in humour or hazards thread, but this reminded me of my indoctrination experiences as a child so I went with hazard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLc5x9kGq1M

cavedave

Spanish Priest Spent $23,000 On Porn, Advertised Himself As Prostitute

The priest spent the money, some of which had been collected in a drive for Haiti, on sex chat lines, internet porn sites and prostitutes

Stercus Accidit

/\ Thats a lot better than molesting kids frankly, maybe they should make this guy a bishop.

robindch

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

maybe they should make this guy a bishop.

Bishop? Naah, too many obvious jokes :pac: