The Hazards of Belief

BlaasForRafa

TheChizler wrote: »

I think that's a bit harsh, they wanted her to get medically checked but they would literally have had to drag her kicking and screaming. Maybe the alternative stuff was done in the hopes that it would help her get over her phobia.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's harsh at all. They are parents, they have to do the tough stuff whether it hurts her feelings or not. She was a child, she was their responsibility and they took the happy-clappy option instead of doing the right thing and dragging her to a hospital if need be.

TheChizler

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't think it's harsh at all. They are parents, they have to do the tough stuff whether it hurts her feelings or not. She was a child, she was their responsibility and they took the happy-clappy option instead of doing the right thing and dragging her to a hospital if need be.

From the article it didn't say what the parents expected that stuff to do. Sounded like a desperate last ditch effort to get her to cooperate. They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

Whether it was negligent or not there's no indication to say that they put belief in alternative medicine above medical treatment, I'm not sure that this case qualifies as a hazard.

Pawwed Rig

TheChizler wrote: »

They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

At 16 you force the issue. She is too young to be making these decisions herself. Some kind of in patient mental health facility would seem appropriate itc

kylith

At 16 if she needs to be sedated to get medical treatment then she needs to be sedated.

If it were me though I'd have slipped a massive laxative into her drink, to the point where she wouldn't have had a choice of whether to poop or not. She must have been in absolute agony with that amount of faeces in her bowel though.

Shrap

TheChizler wrote: »

From the article it didn't say what the parents expected that stuff to do. Sounded like a desperate last ditch effort to get her to cooperate. They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

Whether it was negligent or not there's no indication to say that they put belief in alternative medicine above medical treatment, I'm not sure that this case qualifies as a hazard.

To be honest, if you have a child with "mild" autism (and I use the inverted commas wisely here, as there is very little mildness about a melt-down and how to handle one with any level of autism, high-functioning or otherwise) and their behaviour is that worrying, then yes, you would have to consider sedating her in order to get her to the help she needs.

If that withholding behaviour has gone on for a long time and the parents are considering it an average everyday occurrence, then those parents have been coping alone for waaaay too long (possibly becoming a bit institutionalised within their own situation). Someone should have listened to their older daughter.

TheChizler

kylith wrote: »

At 16 if she needs to be sedated to get medical treatment then she needs to be sedated.

Im not debating the need for forcing treatment, I don't think the parents were negligent specifically for bringing homeopathy into it, all it seems to have done was possibly delay treatment. No more than just hoping that she would eventually give in would have done. The article doesn't go into enough detail to say one way or another.

kylith

TheChizler wrote: »

Im not debating the need for forcing treatment, I don't think the parents were negligent specifically for bringing homeopathy into it, all it seems to have done was possibly delay treatment. No more than just hoping that she would eventually give in would have done. The article doesn't go into enough detail to say one way or another.

It delayed treatment to the point that a girl is dead, if that isn't negligent then I don't know what is. While staying hydrated is good for curing constipation homeopathy is as good as no treatment.

silverharp

I reckon the headline should be - More than a thousand Muslims commit mass suicide. Not drinking during a heatwave doesnt seem optimal? . Where is Allah when you need him , he is supposed to be looking after his followers at this time......


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/uk-heatwave-pakistan-death-toll-rises-as-clerics-urge-followers-to-abstain-from-ramadan-fasting-10360322.html

he death toll from the devastating heatwave that began in Pakistan almost two weeks ago has risen to 1,250, according to government officials.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif travelled to assess the situation on Wednesday in Karachi, the Sindh provincial capital, which has suffered the worst of the ill effects.

The death toll was issued in a government statement handed to Sharif during the high-level meeting.

While temperatures have started to subside in Pakistan, according to local media reports the mercury hit 122F (50C) at its peak.

Nodin

silverharp wrote: »

I reckon the headline should be - More than a thousand Muslims commit mass suicide. Not drinking during a heatwave doesnt seem optimal? . Where is Allah when you need him , he is supposed to be looking after his followers at this time......


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/uk-heatwave-pakistan-death-toll-rises-as-clerics-urge-followers-to-abstain-from-ramadan-fasting-10360322.html

See when you see this kind of thing

The severity of the weather has lead faith leaders to urge followers to hold
off from fasting if they are at any risk of sunstroke.

....you just know theres going to be a few shouting 'It is a test from God/Allah' and will carry on killing themselves regardless.

Also "Reasons to Keep Religion Out Of Law No MXCIX"

Nonetheless, there have been reports of some shops continuing to refuse to sell water and eating and drinking in public remain illegal under the country’s laws for “respecting Ramadan”.

TwoShedsJackson

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

Nodin

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

In theory you are generally correct, however you forgot to apply the "Holy Joe" factor. Always a few.

MrPudding

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

Lol. Logic.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

A rather odd article. The bible changed history all right but that's not the same thing as demonstrating that it did so in a positive way.

Why is ignorance of the Bible so acceptable in modern society? - Irish Times

Kleine Hundin

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

You are excused from doing Ramadam if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or ill, BUT you are to make up for it later by fasting at another time.

BlaasForRafa

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A rather odd article. The bible changed history all right but that's not the same thing as demonstrating that it did so in a positive way.

Why is ignorance of the Bible so acceptable in modern society? - Irish Times

Remember that famous moral compass we’re supposed to have lost – the one that gives you guidelines for fairness in public life, an exposé of the likely faults in the church and proposes permanent cures for addiction?

Would that be the moral compass that means you have to kill your own son in order to forgive someone? The same moral compass that means any city with gay people in it deserves to be obliterated or one that doesn't find room for the commandment "Thou shalt not rape" but instead finds room for 4 commandments whose sole purpose is to assuage gods ego?

Hotblack Desiato

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Fr Tony Flannery, founding member of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP), has challenged the belief that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a life-long virgin.

He also called on former Catholic primate Cardinal Seán Brady to renounce titles and privileges as penance for his role in investigating allegations of child sex abuse by Fr Brendan Smyth.

Belief that Mary was “ever virgin” is a core Catholic teaching and is also held by Protestant and Orthodox churches.

In a reflection on last Sunday’s gospel reading, where Jesus is rejected by his neighbours, Fr Flannery draws attention to the question those neighbours asked: “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”

Commenting on his website, reproduced by the ACP, Fr Flannery says: “We are told that Jesus had four brothers, and an indefinite number of sisters. This does not fit with the church’s need to present Jesus as the Son of God, conceived in a way that is different from other humans, and Mary as the perpetual virgin. So the scholars turned the brothers and sisters into cousins!”

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

I can see a time in the not-too-distant future when Fr Flannery will be announcing that his name is now "Mr Flannery".

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Belief that Mary was “ever virgin” is a core Catholic teaching and is also held by Protestant and Orthodox churches.

I think that belief was abandoned by the vast majority of protestant churches around the time of the reformation.

recedite

Kleine Hundin wrote: »

You are excused from doing Ramadam if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or ill, BUT you are to make up for it later by fasting at another time.

If you were an Imam and I was a muslim, I'd follow you.
I've a bit of a sniffle, and therefore I'll take my Ramadan in 8 hour slots every night, until I've served all the time.

BlaasForRafa

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Joseph must have had the bluest balls in the entire middle east

recedite

Spare a thought for poor Mary, lubricants hadn't been invented yet.

obplayer

recedite wrote: »

Spare a thought for poor Mary, lubricants hadn't been invented yet.

Lard?
(the rich girls they use Vaseline, the poor girls they use lard
but Dinah uses axle grease.....)

BlaasForRafa

recedite wrote: »

Spare a thought for poor Mary, lubricants hadn't been invented yet.

Do ghost cocks need lubricant?



....you know, that's not a question I ever expected to have to ask :pac:

obplayer

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Do ghost cocks need lubricant?



....you know, that's not a question I ever expected to have to ask :pac:

Neither did Mary:D

silverharp

Belief that Mary was “ever virgin” is a core Catholic teaching and is also held by Protestant and Orthodox churches.

they got the Protestant bit wrong, most dont believe she remained a virgin.

recedite

We're assuming here that the ghost stayed away once Joseph arrived on the scene.
Lard is all very well for one-night virgins, but the perpetual virgin needs a specialist product.

kylith

I always imagined that the 'ever virgin' thing referred to a spontaneously healing hymen.

BlaasForRafa

recedite wrote: »

We're assuming here that the ghost stayed away once Joseph arrived on the scene.
Lard is all very well for one-night virgins, but the perpetual virgin needs a specialist product.

Not to mention that if she continually used lard every dog in the village would have been following her around and sniffing her crotch :pac:

Brian Shanahan

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

You see the thing is, the real reason for religious stuff like Ramadan and Lent is to expose and weed out the non-conformists. The religious powers that be don't give two shíts if even millions die as long as a) the majority do what they're told and b) the majority turn on the minority who don't do what they're told and force them out of the group or to conform.

It's the same mentality as with many tribal initiation rituals, except the initiation ritual for religion is constant and unending whereas the tribal one is usually over in a few days.

biko

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e17_1436349388
A young French Muslim shouts in Paris restaurant "People can't eat because it's the ramadan".

recedite

Looks like a prank, or a dare.

robindch

Sydney's Child Abuse Squad arrest a naturopath who allegedly advised a mother to stop her baby's medication and charge her with grievous bodily harm and failure to provide for a child. The mother's up on similar charges.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-09/sydney-naturopath-who-allegedly-advised-mum-over-baby-arrested/6607296

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Looks like a prank, or a dare.

Some fake tan and padding around the midriff and a couple of wires hanging out would've been more daring

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Sydney's Child Abuse Squad arrest a naturopath who allegedly advised a mother to stop her baby's medication and charge her with grievous bodily harm and failure to provide for a child. The mother's up on similar charges.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-09/sydney-naturopath-who-allegedly-advised-mum-over-baby-arrested/6607296

When I hear naturopath I always think sociopath anyway.

smacl

Hazards of disbelief; Interesting piece on Islamism in the Guardian.

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-33472808

obplayer

Protestants have a right to bonfires....

MrPudding

obplayer wrote: »

Protestants have a right to bonfires....

Brilliant. My mother had to claim off the Northern Ireland office a few years ago as a bonfire melted her front door and her sitting room window.

MrP

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

My mother had to claim off the Northern Ireland office a few years ago as a bonfire melted her front door and her sitting room window.

Did somebody explain to her that she shoudn'ta built her haice there?

silverharp

ach eye , sure didnt king Billy himself used to go collecting for wooden pallets when he was a we'un!

robindch

David Quinn must be celebrating today - the logo for his "mammies and daddies matter" group, inspired by the strikingly similar logo used by a small group of French homophobes named Le Manif Pour Tous, during the week evolved into the logo of a group of homophobes led by no less a defender of "tradition" than VV Putin himself and his media handlers.

Here are the three logos - go David!

Note the extra child in the Russian image - the Russian government has been attempting for many years to advertize its citizens into having more children, to help stave off a steep decline in population caused by mass emigration, early death and abnormally high rates of abortion.

robindch

^^^ Just on that, one poster in the comments section pointed to a US-based organization named the "National Organization for Marriage" - a multi-million-dollar outfit with just one employee who earned $230,000 in 2013 (page 7):

http://nationformarriage.org/financial-reports/nom-990-2013-redacted.pdf

The expenses aren't broken down in much detail, but from the information on pages 8 + 9, it seems like the far greater proportion of their turnover is going on simply keeping the organization alive.

obplayer

MrPudding wrote: »

Brilliant. My mother had to claim off the Northern Ireland office a few years ago as a bonfire melted her front door and her sitting room window.

MrP

Perhaps more claims?




http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-33497544

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33486177

The tennis star Novak Djokovic believes he owes his stellar 2011 season to giving up gluten. In his book Serve to Win, he describes the moment his nutritionist Igor Cetojevicv gave him a slice of bread and told him to hold it against his stomach while he held his other arm out straight. Then Cetojevicv pushed down on his arm. "With the bread against my stomach, my arm struggled to resist Cetojevicv's downward pressure. I was noticeably weaker," the tennis star writes. "This is a sign that your body is rejecting the wheat in the bread," Cetojevicv told him. (Djokovic did go on to have a blood test too.)

obplayer

Don't Blame the Atheists

We're not the ones wasting our resources like there's no tomorrow because we're not the ones who actually believe there's no tomorrow

It's not the atheists who would take sequestered schoolchildren and force them to recite the mantra that there is no god. We let them choose

And there's more folks!

I know this is based in America but it is a wonderful lecture on what religion will do to a country.

robindch

Grave visit couple asked to remove equal marriage sticker from car in church car park

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/grave-visit-couple-asked-to-remove-equal-marriage-sticker-from-car-in-church-car-park-31375148.html

Independent wrote:

Lucy and John Keaveney, who are in their 60s and from Ratoath, Co Meath, were visiting the grave of a relative when they were told aggressively by a man to remove the sticker or park elsewhere. The incident happened on Sunday afternoon in the car park of a Russian Orthodox Church in Harold's Cross. The couple parked their car in the church car park and walked in the direction of Mount Jerome Cemetery when they were given the ultimatum from an "aggressive, surly" man. "He just took it upon himself to ask me remove the car or to take the sticker off," Mr Keaveney said. The car park is open to patrons visiting Mount Jerome Cemetery.

[...]

"We didn't go out to cause any trouble on a Sunday afternoon. We met friends at the grave and they said they would nearly be afraid that the man would crack in the window of the car," she told the Herald. "It was the only altercation that we have encountered with the sticker in the car."

"I had been thinking of taking it down but it's staying up now," Mrs Keaveney added.

BlaasForRafa

obplayer wrote: »

And there's more folks!

Aron Ra is pretty good alright. He was on Today FM not so long ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6njtr2-M4M

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Note the extra child in the Russian image - the Russian government has been attempting for many years to advertize its citizens into having more children, to help stave off a steep decline in population caused by mass emigration, early death and abnormally high rates of abortion.

This is too easy

Someone else can tidy it up and add the pink or rainbow background if they like

robindch

The 16-year old daughter of two anti-vax parents saves up her baby-sitting money to get vaccinated.

Mom goes mad. Reddit has a good laugh.

http://www.mommyish.com/2015/07/13/teenager-gets-self-vaccinated-babysitting-money-anti-vax-parents/

Angy Mom wrote:

None of my children are vaccinated. Totally by accident I came to find out that my oldest daughter has been fully vaccinated (Tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, hep a and b, menengitis a and b and hpv) without mine or my husband’s knowledge or consent. In Ontario we have socialized medicine and publicly funded vaccines. She admitted she went to clinics run for school aged children run by our local health public health unit to get her shots and also got a few at a local walk in clinic that are not yet publicly funded paid for with her babysitting money. When I called public health and the clinic to complain they both said that because she is age 16 they cannot release any information to me – and I’m her mother! My husband and are livid that she was vaccinated without our consent. What kind of action can we take against public health and the clinic for vaccinating a child without parental consent? Do we have a case for a lawsuit?

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

The 16-year old daughter of two anti-vax parents saves up her baby-sitting money to get vaccinated.

Mom goes mad. Reddit has a good laugh.

http://www.mommyish.com/2015/07/13/teenager-gets-self-vaccinated-babysitting-money-anti-vax-parents/

In Ontario we have socialized medicine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs