The Hazards of Belief

BlaasForRafa

robindch wrote: »

Seems that some European countries have expressed a preference for letting in christian believers over islamic believers:

http://qz.com/496713/even-philosophers-cant-agree-on-how-we-should-help-refugees-or-whether-we-should/

And then there's the muslims converting to christianity because they think it'll help their asylum claim

http://www.arabnews.com/news/801751

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And then there's the muslims converting to christianity because they think it'll help their asylum claim

http://www.arabnews.com/news/801751

A Saudi paper slagging off Iranian Shia. Well I never.

BlaasForRafa

Nodin wrote: »

A Saudi paper slagging off Iranian Shia. Well I never.

Have you anything to counter the story itself other than your usual outburst of snark?


In other news Saudi Arabia responds to the Syrian refugee crisis by promising to build 200 mosques in Germany....allegedly

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/10/refugee-crisis-richard-dawkins-saudi-arabia-mosques-in-germany_n_8115492.html?1441893686

silverharp

I reckon Africans should issue a class action suit against Christianity

http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/tragedy-for-christian-copying-jesus-40-day-fast/

A 73-year old Christian man trying to emulate Jesus by going without food for 40 days and 40 nights has reportedly died a month into his abstention from all nourishment.



Khulu Reinfirst Manyuka reportedly left his Zimbabwe home on June 15 and headed into the wilderness to pray, redirecting his attention away from worldly things and instead toward God, according to Nehanda Radio.

The report says Manyuka was known by his family and local community as “a very spiritual person whose faith could move mountains.”

“He was a very spiritual man. It’s unfortunate he had to die this way,” said a close relative, requesting anonymity.

Although he was trying to copy or even break Jesus’ epic fast of 40 days, he fell short by 10 days.

“After a month we got the sad news of his death,” the relative noted.

According to family members, Manyuka had no history of illness.

“He was a healthy and religious old man who did not even look his age,” said one family member.


Nehanda Radio says the precise day of Manyuka’s death remains a mystery to his family and friends as he was alone in the wilderness, and his corpse was found by a stranger who subsequently notified police.

Local police said Manyuka isn’t the first to die from fasting, with “numerous” other cases reported.

“We have received such reports before, but we cannot stop the public from fasting,” a police spokesperson said.

wakka12

People on this thread are quite heartless. Im sure the man was mentally ill, as thats not a normal thing to do. I'm sure his family are very upset.

MrPudding

wakka12 wrote: »

People on this thread are quite heartless. Im sure the man was mentally ill, as thats not a normal thing to do. I'm sure his family are very upset.

A couple of points, first, this is the hazards of belief thread. You might have a point if it had been posted in the Funnies thread. Secondly, he was not mentally ill, he was religious. That is a very important, though admittedly sometimes difficult to discern, distinction.

MrP

seamus

silverharp wrote: »

I reckon Africans should issue a class action suit against Christianity

http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/tragedy-for-christian-copying-jesus-40-day-fast/

The really sad thing being that Jesus probably didn't fast for 40 days & nights. Not sure where I read it (could have been here), that "40" in the original text colloquially meant, "a long time". It's historically a non-specific number. Like "Going for 40 winks". So it was probably no more than two weeks, if even.

There are also suggestions that "fasting" in the original text probably didn't refer to total abstinence, but rather abstinence from prepared or cooked food and regular meals. He may still have eaten and drank whatever slim pickings were available in the desert.

In short trying to recreate 40 days and nights specifically without food is folly anyway because not even the original fable claimed that this happened.

biko

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

A blonde Danish teenager who murdered her mother after watching ISIS' sickening filmed beheadings of British hostages has been jailed along with her older jihadi lover.
Lisa Borch was aged only 15 when in October last year she spent hours on YouTube watching footage of the savage decapitations of David Haines and Alan Henning.
Afterwards she and her radical Muslim boyfriend Bakhtiar Mohammed Abdulla, 29, took a long-bladed kitchen knife and stabbed her mother Tina Römer Holtegaard at least 20 times at the home they shared in rural Kvissel.

MrPudding

biko wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235062/Blonde-Danish-teenager-15-murdered-mother-kitchen-knife-watching-ISIS-videos-beheading-British-hostages-online.html

Is there a particular relevance to the fact that she is blonde?

MrP

Thargor

Maybe the Mail are just being thoughtful towards their blind readership?

silverharp

MrPudding wrote: »

Is there a particular relevance to the fact that she is blonde?

MrP

just code for white I assume

seamus

silverharp wrote: »

just code for white I assume

Code for "attractive". It fits the Daily Mail's agenda; Muslims are so dangerous they're stealing the attractive blonde white europeans, not just the unibrowed munters.

biko

No-one picked up on that when she at 15 first was going out with a Muslim that left her to move back to Sweden to be with his wife and kids?
And she then found a 29 old man instead, or rather he found her.

Abdullah clearly didn't care much about the "French rule" - half-your-age-plus-seven..
He just went for half-your-age..

silverharp

seamus wrote: »

Code for "attractive". It fits the Daily Mail's agenda; Muslims are so dangerous they're stealing the attractive blonde white europeans, not just the unibrowed munters.

That would have gone over my head. , fine by me if they filter out the dumb ones.

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/christian-assault-rifle-2334175-Sep2015/

An American gunmaker put a Bible verse on a ‘Christian’ assault rifle so that no ‘Muslim terrorist’ can use it
It features a psalm and a cross.

seamus

“If they think the word of Jesus Christ causes hatred, they don’t understand Jesus Christ.”

Because nothing says, "I'm a peace-loving man who hates no-one" like owning an assault rifle.

Also incredible to see just how disconnected these people are from the potential damage these things can do. The etchings there of "Peace", "War" and "God Wills It" I'm presuming are the mode selectors for safety, semi-automatic and fully automatic. Basically making a joke about fully automatic mode spraying bullets wherever "God wills it".

Sick.

BlaasForRafa

God's will can be used to justify just about anything. Handy eh?

Nodin

"Thomas, asserting he was not a bigot, insisted................"

O deary me.

recedite

Considering the $billions worth of US weapons sent to Syria and Iraq, a simple method of deterring the Islamic fundies from using them is not a bad idea.
One US General recently admitted that 4 or 5 of their anti-Assad insurgents were still fighting. That's 4 or 5 individuals, not 4 or 5 battalions.
Its a cruel kind of strategy they are pursuing, one that doesn't want Assad to win, but doesn't want IS to win either. In other words, perpetual war in the NW of the region. While the US oil contractors can get on with their work in the SE in relative peace.

robindch

Omar Hussain, a former High Wycombe resident and supermarket worker, travelled to Syria, renamed himself Abu Sa'eed Al-Britani, and began to fight on behalf of IS.

Mr Al-Britani maintains a Tumblr blog and appears to be finding the whole Jihadi experience quite trying - his fellow jihadi's swipe phone chargers + shoes, invade his personal space, show poor queue behaviour, laziness, stare, are cruel to animals and leave a mess in the sink. And as a general rule, are simply "bothersome":

Abu Sa'eed Al-Britani wrote:

Another common trait is that they see no issue in unplugging your mobile phone to charge their own phone. Even if it’s your own charger, they would casually take your phone off charge to charge their own phone, even if there is no real need for them to charge their phone at that current time.

Arabs in general do not know where the red line is in giving another brother his space, and this is in their culture, maybe because they see this as a form of strong brotherhood. Whatever the reason it’s annoying so patience is required.

our Syrian brothers have a very peculiar philosophy whereby they believe that everyone can share each other’s footwear, irrespective of foot size. Someone who is a size 40 will casually walk out the room wearing your footwear even though you are a size 44, and strangely he may not even realise. Weird? Of course it is. From my very first month here in Shām, I would experience this; I would enter a room with my shoes, and when leaving I would notice my footwear was missing. This is too common here in Shām. For some reason (known best to Syrians), what’s yours is theirs and what’s theirs is yours, even if you disagree with it. Apparently brotherhood dictates that they can take anything from you without permission, and you have no right to get upset. Sometimes you would enter a building and when leaving, you would see the person with your shoes walking 100 yards ahead of you and it can be quite irritating to have to wait for him to return, especially if you are in a rush to go somewhere. Even more irritating is when he comes back really slowly or stops about 50 yards away casually talking to another brother while he knows you’re waiting for him.

It is not unusual to see them walk away after eating leaving a big mess for someone else to clean up after them. And the sight of a typical kitchen sink is just appalling.

Another ‘great’ feature of Arabs in administration is that there is no queue in any of their offices. You could be waiting in line for half an hour and then another Arab would come and push in the queue and go straight in. Even more ironic is that he would even barge in front of the guy who is speaking to the admin. It’s not unusual for Arabs to push in nor is it unusual for them to interrupt you while you’re speaking to the admin. And because the admin is also an Arab he also sees no issue in another person interrupting you.

Some Syrians are such heavy sleepers that even shaking and kicking them would not wake them up. There was one Syrian brother who was so hard to wake up for Fajr prayer. I would call his name, shake him, poke him, turn him over, yet this guy would be totally knocked out cold. On one occasion, I was continuously waking him up after every 5 minutes for about half an hour. It so happened that I had to literally drag him out of the room by his foot to get him to go and do wudhoo’ for Fajr prayer.

Syrians love to stare at foreigners, maybe because no tourist has ever visited Syria. [...] However, the ironic thing is when it is done by grown men, especially when they do not stop staring at you. It can be quite uncomfortable to have a fully grown man stand a few meters away from you staring at you, and even when you look at him and give him a smile, he still stares at you without looking away. It can be like a staring competition at times.

[...] our Arab brothers, they tend to treat animals very badly. It is not uncommon to see an Arab throw objects at animals and to chase a hungry cat away. Nor is it uncommon to see some from among them killing harmless dogs. Indeed the Prophet (saw) ordered us to kill black dogs as they are Jinns which have taken the form of animals, however Arabs tend to take it a step further and kill all dogs even though they may be harmless.

The above mentioned traits should not deter a person from coming to Jihād, for not all Arabs are like this; we have many European battalions which one can join if he finds it problematic [...] every nation of people will have traits which may be somewhat bothersome to you.

Nodin

Somehow I think expecting a shower of mysogynists who believe in a patriarchal society to volunteer to wash the dishes is a tad naïve....

robindch

A rabbi explains why it's a good idea to... I can't bring myself to write it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzs-09Of99I

The Black Oil

https://twitter.com/BoingBoing/status/643967862391078912

Holly Salzman of Albuquerque, New Mexico went to court to resolve coparenting issues with her ex-husband. The judge ordered Salzman to attend 10 sessions with a counselor named Mary Pepper (Photo). When Salzman went to the first session, Pepper began praying out loud, Salzman objected but Pepper told her, "well this is what I do." When Salzman attended the next session, Pepper prayed out loud again and spoke at length about God. Salzman asked the court to let her see another counselor, but the court never responded. Salzman stopped seeing Pepper and the court took her sons away.

FFS

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Mr Al-Britani maintains a Tumblr blog and appears to be finding the whole Jihadi experience quite trying - his fellow jihadi's swipe phone chargers + shoes, invade his personal space, show poor queue behaviour, laziness, stare, are cruel to animals and leave a mess in the sink. And as a general rule, are simply "bothersome":

War is hell...

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Considering the $billions worth of US weapons sent to Syria and Iraq...

...and the Iranians', and the Saudis', and the Russians' weapons :rolleyes:

recedite

It’s not unusual for Arabs to push in..

As several police forces in southeast Europe have discovered recently :pac:

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

...and the Iranians', and the Saudis', and the Russians' weapons :rolleyes:

Of course the big difference is that the Russian and Iranian weapons are being used on Assad's side against the fundies. The reason Assad is so disliked by the hardline Sunnis of IS such as our friend mentioned above, Mr Al-Britani, is that he is what we might call a moderate Muslim.
The Alawite sect which comprises most of the officer corps of the Syrian army don't believe in praying 5 times a day, because it bores Allah, are fond of the odd alcoholic beverage, and most even celebrate Christmas. And like the Shias, they are not prone to going on a foreign jihad, being more of the defensive type, rather than offensive. Hezbollah have historically only fought defensive wars. Israel and USA may choose to label them as terrorists, the same as Al Quaeda and IS, but IMO there is an important distinction between those who wage a defensive war in their own homeland, and those who wage an offensive war in a foreign land.

Had to laugh at Al-Britani's answer in the blog when asked what he thought of the possibility of Russians coming to Syria...

From June 2014 to August 2014 I was with a Russian battalion and from what I witnessed, Russians are very good brothers. My best friend was from Uzbekistan and I’ve written a bio of him (see previous entries on my blog). Europeans generally link easier than when its Europeans and Arabs coming together. And this is something quite normal and understandable.

The idiot totally misunderstood the question, as you would expect from somebody that egotistical.

Shrap

recedite wrote: »

As several police forces in southeast Europe have discovered recently :pac:

Not funny enough to warrant a :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Of course the big difference is that the Russian and Iranian weapons are being used on Assad's side against the fundies. The reason Assad is so disliked by the hardline Sunnis of IS such as our friend mentioned above, Mr Al-Britani, is that he is what we might call a moderate Muslim.
The Alawite sect which comprises most of the officer corps of the Syrian army don't believe in praying 5 times a day, because it bores Allah, are fond of the odd alcoholic beverage, and most even celebrate Christmas.

And Saddam Hussein was anti-islamist too. Doesn't make him or Assad a great pair of lads though, does it?

Hezbollah have historically only fought defensive wars. Israel and USA may choose to label them as terrorists, the same as Al Quaeda and IS, but IMO there is an important distinction between those who wage a defensive war in their own homeland, and those who wage an offensive war in a foreign land.

How does that square with Hezbollah sending fighters into Syria?

PopePalpatine

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that square with Hezbollah sending fighters into Syria?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but the Assad regime and Hezbollah are allies. Hezbollah are a Shia militant group, so I guess there's religious allegiances to factor in too.

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

And Saddam Hussein was anti-islamist too. Doesn't make him or Assad a great pair of lads though, does it?

I'd add Gadaffi to that too. None of them perfect, but each of them presided over a country where most people enjoyed a good standard of living, and the various fundamentalist religious factions were kept under control.
How many Syrians, Libyans or Iraqis do you reckon would say life is better now, after US/western backed "regime change"?

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that square with Hezbollah sending fighters into Syria?

Lebanon has borders with Syria to the north and east, and Israel to the south.
IS fighters are now on Lebanon's doorstep; if they defeat Assad they will be more of a threat to Lebanon than the Israelis. Sunnis in Lebanon would not suffer much under IS control, but the Shia that Hezbollah represents would be slaughtered.

Nodin

"The Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson has said no Muslim should be president of the United States of America."
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/20/ben-carson-no-muslim-us-president-trump-obama?CMP=fb_gu

No caveats such as "fundamentalist" in there either. I think JFK had to address the "issues" some had with him being raised Catholic - evidently the world hasn't rolled that far forward since.

robindch

Nodin wrote: »

"The Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson has said no Muslim should be president of the United States of America."

Carson's so un-selfaware that I'm expecting him to come out against blacks (African-Americans?) shortly.

BlaasForRafa

What are you lot on about, haven't the USA had a muslim president for the last 7 years?

recedite

Carson failed to distinguish between "Muslim" and "Islamic", which to be fair is difficult enough, especially for an Amurican.
That other thing he said is hard to disagree with..

In his NBC interview, Carson was asked: “So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?”

“No,” he said, “I don’t, I do not.”

Meanwhile the US defense secretary Carter has received a long phone call from his Russian counterpart Shoygo after Russian fighter jets arrive in Syria.
It looks like the US led "coalition" are being asked to stand aside and stop their somewhat lazy strategy of airstrikes against any/all moving vehicles on the ground.
Russian marines are on the move.

the Russians have so far unloaded at least a half-dozen third-generation T-90 main battle tanks; 15 fresh artillery pieces; 35 armored personnel carriers, similar to the U.S. Army's Bradley fighting vehicles; and an yet to be released number of additional Russian Marines. As it turns out, the boys from Mother Russia are on a high tech road trip to pick a fight with the ISIS terrorist organization. As reported by the DEBKAfile, an unspecified number of R-166-0.5 (ultra) high-frequency signals (HF/VHF) vehicles have been spotted on Highway 4, which links Latakia province to the ISIS-held interior of the war-ravaged country. Often referred to as “mobile war rooms” by the Israeli and Western armies, a "large convoy" of the R-166-0.5 command and control vehicles were accompanied by a yet to be released number of BTR-82 armored personnel carriers (APC) chock full of Russian Marines. The R-166-0.5 enables communication with forces located on battlefields as far as 620 miles (1,000 kilometers) distant using their high frequency and ultra-high frequency signals.
Meanwhile, The Guardian notes that a convoy of Russian APCs and up-armored trucks has left Jableh heading southeast. According to the British newspaper's sources, this particular Russian motorized force is heading straight for the government-held city of Hama. Syrian National Army troops loyal to President Bashir al-Assad have a tentative hold on the city against militant Islamists. Much like the WWII Battle of Stalingrad, control of Hama see-saws between forces in battles where gains and losses are measured by the city block.

Our friend Mr. Al-Bretani may soon wish he was back home in England doing his old job of "guarding" that Morrison's supermarket.

Thargor

Gwan the Russians.

robindch

Thargor wrote: »

Gwan the Russians.

Can't imagine that much good is going to come of a maniac sending a poorly-trained army into somebody else's civil war, even if he managed to avoid starting it.

Nodin

recedite wrote: »

Carson failed to distinguish between "Muslim" and "Islamic", which to be fair is difficult enough, especially for an Amurican.
That other thing he said is hard to disagree with..
...............

Actually its quite easy.


Funny enough what the man himself said is quite diametrically opposed to specific parts of the US consititution.

robindch

A pro-science advocate explains why she tries to remain anonymous when blogging about GMO's:

http://www.itsmomsense.com/cyber-threats-and-why-i-remain-anonymous/

robindch

Here's the BBC discussing three atheists/agnostics in Bangladesh who are actively targeted by pro-religious preachers and militants:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34338691

Four atheists have been murdered in Bangladesh so far this year.

recedite

700 hajjis killed in this year's stampede.

The Stoning of the Devil is the main game at this pilgrimage.

"stoning of the jamarāt [place of pebbles] is part of the annual Islamic Hajj pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Muslim pilgrims fling pebbles at three walls (formerly pillars), called jamarāt, in the city of Mina just east of Mecca. It is one of a series of ritual acts that must be performed in the Hajj.
On Eid al-Adha (the 10th day of the month of Dhu al-Hijjah), pilgrims must strike only one of the large jamrah with seven pebbles. After the stoning is completed on the day of Eid, every pilgrim must cut or shave their hair. On each of the following two days, they must hit each of the three walls with seven pebbles, going in order from east to west. Thus at least 49 pebbles are needed for the ritual, more if some throws miss. Some pilgrims stay at Mina for an additional day, in which case they must again stone each wall seven times. The pebbles used in the stoning are traditionally gathered at Muzdalifah, a plain southeast of Mina, on the night before the first throwing, but can also be collected at Mina...
The Stoning of the Devil ritual is considered the most dangerous part of the pilgrimage, as sudden crowd movements on or near the Jamaraat Bridge can cause people to be crushed. On several occasions, hundreds of participants have suffocated or been trampled to death in stampedes.
An important step in managing crowds is the recent replacement of the jamarāt pillars by walls to ease and speed up the stoning. The bridge has also been widened in recent years to accommodate the ever-growing number of pilgrims who perform the Hajj each year.
Crowd conditions are especially difficult during the final day of Hajj, which is the day pilgrims leave the valley of Mina and return to Mecca for the farewell Tawaf (the final circumambulation of the Kaaba). According to hadith, Muhammad's last stoning was performed just after the noon prayer. Many scholars feel that the ritual can be done any time between noon and sunset on this day; however, many Muslims are taught that it should be done immediately after the noon prayer. This leads to people camping out until noon and rushing out then to do the stoning.
These two factors are felt to be most responsible for the most recent tragedy during the Hajj of 2006, in which a stampede killed at least 346 pilgrims and injured at least 289 more. This was despite several attempts by the authorities to inform pilgrims about the permissibility of staggering their visits to the jamarāt as well as instructing them to leave their luggage at their tents. Adding to the confusion involved in the tragedy is the lack of co-operation on the part of pilgrims who do not leave the jamarāt area by the proper route, and therefore interfere with the movements of others who are arriving.

Some have suggested that The Running of the Jew would be much safer as the main event.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

700 hajjis killed in this year's stampede.

That's in addition to a further one hundred or so killed when a crane collapsed a few weeks ago:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/saudi-crane-collapse-kills-107-mecca-grand-mosque-150911232844846.html

Given the death toll, it's would be tasteless to use the tragedies in debates with religious believers.

That said, one does wonder what people might feel in the aftermath - would this level of carnage not make even the most fervent religious believer question his or her religious beliefs, even a little?

Kivaro

robindch wrote: »

.........would this level of carnage not make even the most fervent religious believer question his or her religious beliefs, even a little?

But, but ................. god/mohammed works in mysterious ways.

recedite

Maybe they consider themselves lucky to die in such a holy place.
Thats around 800 angels who get to wear the "I died at Mecca 2015" tee-shirt.
With slots cut out at the back, obviously, for the wings.

130Kph

This stampede truly is a (proven) hazard of belief.

In fact, I would say this is one of the most compelling instances on the thread.

BlaasForRafa

robindch wrote: »

That said, one does wonder what people might feel in the aftermath - would this level of carnage not make even the most fervent religious believer question his or her religious beliefs, even a little?

Saw this comment on a post about it on Facebook from someone with a middle-eastern name (presumably a believer)

Inna lillahay Wa Inna aliahay rajioun. Keep in mind life and death is from ALLAH. What they are doing? Performing Hajj a biggest pillar of Islam. And if the death arrive during hajj, what they achieved?,they are martyred. They are lucky they directly goes to Jannah. May Allah give Saber to their families. Ameen.

I think most of us posting here could agree that all religions are a bit crazy but Islam seems to have an extra bit of crazy over the rest of the main religions.

What happened is a tragedy but with millions of people who are already hyped up into a state of semi-hysteria then it's perhaps inevitable that something like this happens fairly regularly. If people were thinking rationally then of course they'd think "eh....I think i'll give that a miss thanks very much all the same" but rationality and Islam don't seem to go hand in hand.

recedite

...they are martyred. They are lucky they directly goes to Jannah.

Yaaay... 10/10 points for me.

Cabaal

Watching bbc news just now, they interviewed a person who was involved in the crush but managed to survive, he said that it was god that saved him.

I guess god cared more about him then others, very picky god.

MrPudding

Cabaal wrote: »

Watching bbc news just now, they interviewed a person who was involved in the crush but managed to survive, he said that it was god that saved him.

I guess god cared more about him then others, very picky god.

He is lucky the rugby World Cup isn't on during the day. His god might have been too busy scoring tries to save him.

MrP

Nodin

Cabaal wrote: »

Watching bbc news just now, they interviewed a person who was involved in the crush but managed to survive, he said that it was god that saved him.

I guess god cared more about him then others, very picky god.

It's like babies. In any large scale disaster God will see one he likes and save them with a miracle. The rest die horribly, because they aren't cute enough or something.