The Hazards of Belief

Nodin

Franks belief that there's a rat in his crew continues to cause problems

"BERLIN — The Vatican on Monday said it had arrested two members of a papal reform commission on suspicion of leaking classified information, opening a week of intrigue as the Holy See braces for two potentially damaging books purporting to reveal inside corruption."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/vatican-arrests-two-advisers-over-alleged-links-to-leaked-documents/2015/11/02/b154ba46-816d-11e5-a7ca-6ab6ec20f839_story.html?tid=sm_fb

Nodin

DUP in 'No!!' Shock

"A majority of Northern Ireland Assembly members have voted in favour of same-sex marriage for the first time.
But the motion has fallen due to a DUP petition of concern which requires the proposal to achieve a cross-community majority."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-34692546

It'll end in Europe, with jaysus knows how much wasted.

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

Blue is the way to go, though there are so few places that can actually cook a blue steak.

There's one good restaurant in Sandymount which used to do a cracking blue steak, with fresh bearnaise sauce and shoestring chips. Every bite was a revelation and every taste was divine. And mini-me (well, mostly me) used to enjoy seeing the waiters and waitresses do a double-take there and in other places, when she'd order a blue steak from the child's menu - ha!

Cabaal

http://www.thejournal.ie/woman-stoned-to-death-eloping-2422736-Nov2015/

A YOUNG AFGHAN woman who was married against her will has been stoned to death by extremists after she was caught eloping with another man.

Graphic video of the stoning shows the woman, named as Rokhsahana and aged between 19 and 21, in a hole in the ground as men almost casually hurl stones at her with sickening thuds.

Bandana boy

robindch wrote: »

There's one good restaurant in Sandymount which used to do a cracking blue steak, with fresh bearnaise sauce and shoestring chips. Every bite was a revelation and every taste was divine. And mini-me (well, mostly me) used to enjoy seeing the waiters and waitresses do a double-take there and in other places, when she'd order a blue steak from the child's menu - ha!

A good Blue (or rare) steak needs no sauce bearnise or otherwise.

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

There's one good restaurant in Sandymount which used to do a cracking blue steak, with fresh bearnaise sauce and shoestring chips. Every bite was a revelation and every taste was divine. And mini-me (well, mostly me) used to enjoy seeing the waiters and waitresses do a double-take there and in other places, when she'd order a blue steak from the child's menu - ha!

Bandana boy wrote: »

A good Blue (or rare) steak needs no sauce bearnise or otherwise.

I can see this turning bloody.

robindch

Nodin wrote: »

I can see this turning bloody.

Unlikely, since the red juice in meat is not blood but myoglobin.

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

Unlikely, since the red juice in meat is not blood but myoglobin.

.....liberals, with their facts.....

recedite

Nodin wrote: »

Franks belief that there's a rat in his crew continues to cause problems
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/vatican-arrests-two-advisers-over-alleged-links-to-leaked-documents/2015/11/02/b154ba46-816d-11e5-a7ca-6ab6ec20f839_story.html?tid=sm_fb

It says there..

Both suspects face potential charges under a 2013 law passed after the Vatileaks scandal that made it illegal to disclose confidential Holy See documents and information

But I wonder if European law would allow somebody to be locked up for telling the truth?
Given that freedom of speech is supposed to be one of our values. Even if confidential information was disclosed. Compare to the case of Julian Assange, who is being sought by Sweden on (probably trumped up) rape charges, from where it is thought likely he would be sent on to the USA for trial on espionage charges. But both of these would be far more serious charges. Even in the USA locking somebody up for releasing classified information is not straightforward.

Absolam

recedite wrote: »

It says there..But I wonder if European law would allow somebody to be locked up for telling the truth?
Given that freedom of speech is supposed to be one of our values. Even if confidential information was disclosed. Compare to the case of Julian Assange, who is being sought by Sweden on (probably trumped up) rape charges, from where it is thought likely he would be sent on to the USA for trial on espionage charges. But both of these would be far more serious charges. Even in the USA locking somebody up for releasing classified information is not straightforward.

Well, it's illegal in Ireland to disclose Official Secrets as well, punishable by fines and jail time, even if the person is telling the truth, so it's not like there aren't similar contexts in Europe already.
But what could Europe do if the Vatican did lock people up for telling the truth? It's not part of the EU, and I doubt they owe anybody a whole heap of money or anything. Nor can I see anyone seriously proposing trade sanctions against the Vatican for it?

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

It says there..But I wonder if European law would allow somebody to be locked up for telling the truth?

It certainly does, yes, as Ab has already pointed out. In general limitations on the right of free speech don't depend at all on whether your speech is true or not; you are just as free to tell lies as you are to tell the truth, and your freedom to tell both can be limited in the same way.

In this case, the clue is in the fact that, according to the Washington Post, the July 2013 law deals with the disclosure of "confidential Holy See documents and information". Most countries have laws to enforce confidentiality obligations. And the European Convention on Human Rights specifically allows, in Article 10, for laws "for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence". (And, obviously, when confidential information is true and correct, its release is all the more damaging to the person who has an interest in its confidentiality.)

That's not to say that a particular law might not go further than the convention would permit, or be too sweeping, or whatever. But such laws are not inherently in breach of the Convention.

robindch

After this, this and this, I'm really wondering if the religious schools should include instruction on this kind of thing in their regular curriculums:

http://www.reportghananews.com/nigerian-pastor-tries-to-walk-on-water-like-jesus-then-drowns-in-front-of-his-congregation/

Report Ghana News wrote:

Walking on water is not easy. Not too many people have the ability. Let’s see, there’s Jesus, and well, that’s about it. Unfortunately for one pastor on the West Coast of Africa, his attempt to become the second man to make this impossible feat a reality cost him his life. Pastor Franck Kabele, 35, told his congregation that he was capable of reenacting the very miracles of Jesus Christ. He decided to make it clear through way of demonstration on Gabon’s beach in the capital city of Libreville.

Referencing Matthew 14:22-33, Kabele said that he received a revelation which told him that with enough faith he could achieve what Jesus was able to. According to an eyewitness, Kabele took his congregation out to the beach. He told them that he would cross the Kombo estuary by foot, which is normally a 20 minute boat ride. Sadly by the second step into the water Kabele found himself completely submerged. He never returned.

This is not the first incident of this nature in Africa. At Ibadon zoo in south-west Nigeria, a self-proclaimed Prophet claimed to be able to do what the Daniel of the bible did by walking into a den full of lions. Though he was warned numerous times by zoo keepers, according to NG Newspapers, the Prophet thought of them as nothing more than enemies of progress. The Prophet, with a crowd of people watching, put on a long red robe and proceeded to enter the cage full of lions. Within seconds of opening the door, the lions ripped the Prophet from flesh to bone.

The bible should come with a warning label, “Don’t try this at home".

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

It says there..But I wonder if European law would allow somebody to be locked up for telling the truth?

The Vatican pseudo-state is not a member of the Council of Europe and is therefore not party to the European Convention of Human Rights.

Peregrinus

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The Vatican pseudo-state is not a member of the Council of Europe and is therefore not party to the European Convention of Human Rights.

Other way round. The Holy See isn't a party to the ECHR and therefore cannot join the Council of Europe.

In practice, though, even though the HS isn't a party to the Convention its criminal laws do have to conform to the Convention. This is because they are largely reliant on Italian co-operation to enforce their criminal laws and Italy is a party to the Convention. Actions taken by the Italian authorities can be challenged by reference to the Convention, and can be brought to the European Court of Human Rights. And the ECHR has ruled that the Italian authorities do have to consider, before taking action to support, enforce, etc measures of the Holy See, whether those measures are themselves consistent with the Convention.

robindch

Vatileaks is the scandal that keeps on giving. In this installment, we learn that some cardinals enjoy a life of grand privilege:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34723819

robindch

Kevin Folta, a professor at the University of Florida, has been a prominent pro-science advocate over the last while, mostly in the area of GMO. Anti-GMO activists targetted him continually and finally, yesterday, achieved their goal.

http://foodscienceinstitute.com/2015/11/05/relentless-attacks-silence-public-scientist/

Kevin Folta wrote:

Hi Everybody. I’ll keep it short. The attacks are relentless, I’m under a lot of pressure on many fronts. I’m taking the opportunity to disappear from public visibility and focus on my lab and my students. It has been a challenging time. I appreciate the support, I’m grateful for your wishes, but this battle is vicious and one-sided, and I think I’m well served bowing out of the public science conversation for the foreseeable future. Thank you.

Nodin

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced a new policy in its handbook stating that children living in a same-sex household may not be blessed as babies or baptized until they are 18.
The policy change, which also states that those in a same-sex marriage are to be considered apostates, was confirmed Thursday by church spokesman Eric Hawkins."

"Mormon children are normally blessed as infants and entered into the LDS Church records. Most Mormon children are baptized around age 8, an act that Mormons believe is a covenant with God and essential to salvation.
The new policy says that once natural or adopted children living in a same-sex household reach 18, they may disavow the practice of same-sex cohabitation or marriage and stop living within the household. If the individual follows those two rules, they may request approval to be baptized, confirmed, ordained to the church priesthood and recommended for missionary service with the permission of the faith’s highest leaders, the First Presidency."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/11/05/mormon-church-to-exclude-children-of-same-sex-couples-from-getting-blessed-and-baptized-until-they-are-18/?tid=sm_fb

The renounce your parents rule. Lovely stuff.


Apostate/Apostates - if that isn't already taken as a band name I'd be shocked.

Pawwed Rig

I would have thought waiting until 18 would be a disaster for a religion. If they did that here the church would disappear in a generation.

Hotblack Desiato

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would have thought waiting until 18 would be a disaster for a religion. If they did that here the church would disappear in a generation.

It's already a pale shadow of its former self; in another generation it'll be a pale shadow of what it is now.

That doesn't mean it'll give up schools etc. without a very bitter and prolonged fight.

Hotblack Desiato

This is a bit long, but more than nutty enough to be entertaining:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/scientologist-mounted-vicious-character-attack-on-ex-member-1.2419922

'naked and holding a Guy Fawkes mask over his genitals'

'Mr Griffiths said the videos showed young people and not teenagers masturbating. Mr Beatty told him they were masturbating each other.'

'Ms Collins told the court she had been born in Derry and brought up a Catholic and had been told that “Protestants might not be the best people to associate with”. She believed that because of this sort of teaching some boys in her school had gone on to join the IRA.

She had lived as a Catholic in Belfast and had found it very hard growing up in the troubles in the North. She had gone to Australia in 2000 and had become a member of the Church of Scientology in which she had learned it was possible for people to live in harmony.'

wtf

Hotblack Desiato

3rd post in a row. I'll stop now I promise.

Dominican school cancels invite to atheist speaker

Atheist Ireland chairman Michael Nugent was due to speak at St Dominic’s girl’s secondary school in Cabra on Thursday.

The original invite said: “The school wholly welcomes you and looks forward to hearing about both Atheist Ireland and atheism as a system of non-belief.”

But in an email received last week, Mr Nugent was told members of the school’s religious education team opted to cancel the invitation on the grounds that they did not “wish to cultivate non-religious belief ” at the school.

What are they so flipping afraid of?


...Must be this!

The original invitation also said that the concept of non-belief may be mostly new to much of the students, many of whom come from a faith background.

“As such, terms such as ‘rational’, ‘reason’ and other terms related to the secular experience may not be within their lexicon, and could require explanation,” the email added.

What kind of a joke of an educational system is this?

robindch

The Russian Orthodox church is planning to roll out its own free public wifi network free of "porn, grisly tabloid reports, gay propaganda and dangerous religious sects".

RT wrote:

The network will be serviced by a team of specialists who would manually check all data and block potentially-hazardous content.

https://www.rt.com/politics/321064-holy-wi-fi-russian-church/

Hotblack Desiato

I pity those poor specialists who are forced to view and assess the internet content deemed too shocking for mere normal Russian citizens to be able to cope with.

:rolleyes:

robindch

The Censorship Committee sits ready.

Kivaro

robindch wrote: »

The Russian Orthodox church is planning to roll out its own free public wifi network free with "porn, grisly tabloid reports, gay propaganda and dangerous religious sects".

https://www.rt.com/politics/321064-holy-wi-fi-russian-church/

It's amazing what a small word can do.
That's how I originally read it ................ and wasn't overly surprised.

recedite

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would have thought waiting until 18 would be a disaster for a religion. If they did that here the church would disappear in a generation.

I doubt there are actually any children being brought up in Mormon same-sex parent households. So the new rule only applies to hypothetical people. But it does allow homophobic Mormons to adopt a "holier than thou" attitude towards the wider secular society.

Pawwed Rig

Still causes grief though

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/08/us/gay-mormons-distressed-by-new-rules-on-same-sex-relationships.html

silverharp

Mohammed had British values apparently....and no its not The Onion


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-prophet-mohammed-had-british-values-so-the-only-way-to-combat-extremism-is-to-teach-more-islam-a6717066.html

The Prophet Mohammed had British values - so the only way to combat extremism is to teach more Islam in schools


If the last Prophet of Islam, Mohammed was to return to this earth today, what would he make of those who have misconstrued his teachings? This is the question that could begin deconstructing extremism and winning people back who have been tempted into violent interpretations of their faith. Simply put, the way to combat Islamic extremism is to invest in teaching Islamic theology in British schools: teaching that proves the Prophet Mohammed would never have condoned their actions.

Many reading this will find it difficult to stomach, but the Prophet Mohammed had what we also call "British values". Those values of social responsibility, respect for the rule of law, individual liberty, mutual respect, and tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs that schools are now required to promote are not exclusively British, and are inherently Islamic. The teachings of the Qur’an are unambiguous on being inclusive, and treating others with justice and equality. There needn’t be a discrepancy between what is British and what is Muslim.....

PopePalpatine

So I went on the Internet Reddit's front page...and found this:

robindch

^^^ Looks like a top-heavy menage-a-trois, with the woman at the bottom.

And what's "imput" anyway?

Peregrinus

robindch wrote: »

And what's "imput" anyway?

You don't want to know.

But it's not sinful if done within marriage.

Shrap

robindch wrote: »

^^^ Looks like a top-heavy menage-a-trois, with the woman at the bottom.

And what's "imput" anyway?

Looks seriously kinky. God has some submissive alter-egos going on too. I guess they all switcheroo and "the dominant one" decides which nipple is going to play Holy Spirit with the clamps today and what part of him gets to be the inner child...... :eek:

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

^^^ Looks like a top-heavy menage-a-trois, with the woman at the bottom.

And what's "imput" anyway?

Its "input" that you don't pay any heed to.

robindch

VICE News visits a school in Aleppo for khaki-clad boys who want to grow up to be suicide bombers:

https://news.vice.com/article/in-photos-inside-the-al-nusra-academy-training-the-next-generation-of-jihadis

MrPudding

This is good new:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34744858

I find it ridiculous that the NHS pays for this stuff. Even more ridiculous, my company provided private healthcare also pay for this crap!

MrP

oscarBravo

Homeopathic hospitals? Jaysus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Nodin

MrPudding wrote: »

This is good new:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34744858

I find it ridiculous that the NHS pays for this stuff. Even more ridiculous, my company provided private healthcare also pay for this crap!

MrP

If you put a fellah that's been cured of a disease with medicine beside a guy with the disease who has had no medicine and bang their heads together, will the sick guy get cured or will they both die of head injuries like the others?

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

VICE News visits a school in Aleppo for khaki-clad boys who want to grow up to be suicide bombers

In that school you're not allowed repeat your Leaving.

Hotblack Desiato

As of tonight, going for a meal out in Paris or a football match makes you a legitimate target.

Hotblack Desiato

Apparently we're all asking to be murdered, because of stuff and things.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Apparently we're all asking to be murdered, because of stuff and things.

Here's a list of things which religious fundamentalists find provocative to the point of murder:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/11/paris-attacks-isis/415998/

Nodin

Turn the other cheek to that kind of shite and you'd be left with half a face quick enough.

PopePalpatine

Stay classy, Paddy.

robindch

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Stay classy, Paddy.

Not sure that young Paddy does 'class'.

Nodin

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Stay classy, Paddy.

For those as clueless as myself

"Chaired by Kofi Annan, The Elders is an independent group of global leaders who work together for peace and human rights. They were brought together in 2007 by Nelson Mandela.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu served for six years as Chair before stepping down in May 2013, and remains an Honorary Elder.
The Burmese pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi was also an Honorary Elder, until her election to the Burmese parliament in April 2012."
http://theelders.org/about

"COP21, also known as the 2015 Paris Climate Conference,...."
http://www.cop21paris.org/about/cop21

As already noted, Paddy does not do class, and might not recognise it if it smacked him in the gob.

oscarBravo

Nodin wrote: »

...if it smacked him in the gob.

We can but hope.

cowboyBuilder

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Stay classy, Paddy.

:eek:

what a f*cking twat!

Thargor

What a cringey title though "The Elders"...

Peregrinus

A wholly-owned subsidiary of the Elders of the Internet, I believe.

silverharp

Atheist holding his own against Egyptian liberal media :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa3Qyd4lMH8