The Hazards of Belief

seamus

recedite wrote: »

Are you aware that several hundred people in Ireland have died as a result of receiving contaminated blood? Not on the operating table, but at home, slowly over a number of years from Hepatitis and AIDs.

So you're saying that they should have been allowed die on the operating table rather than get a few extra years with their families. Gotcha.

robindch

Fr Pat Collins says that Ireland needs more exorcists. Also suspects that younger clergy don't believe in exorcism to start with.

https://www.irishcatholic.com/combat-surge-evil-top-exorcist/

recedite

A rising tide of evil afflicting the country, eh?
Just as well each diocese has "a trained exorcist who knows how to distinguish the signs of demonic possession from those of mental or physical illness".

Zubeneschamali

robindch wrote: »

Fr Pat Collins says that Ireland needs more exorcists. Also suspects that younger clergy don't believe in exorcism to start with.

I agree with him on the younger clergy thing. Although I think most older clergymen think possession and exorcism are horse****, too, because really, you'd have to be a bit mad to believe in that stuff these days.

pauldla

From patheos.com:

Poll suggests that 'religious beliefs' are the main source of global conflict.

Depends on who's being polled, I suppose.

robindch

In a somewhat ironic move, Pope Francis has denounced people who spread fake news which, he said, lead to arrogance and hatred:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42802295

Meanwhile, back in Ireland and perhaps predictably, students won't be sitting the new international Pisa test designed to assess respect for other cultures, challenge extremism and help identify fake news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42781376

silverharp

robindch wrote: »

In a somewhat ironic move, Pope Francis has denounced people who spread fake news which, he said, lead to arrogance and hatred:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42802295

Meanwhile, back in Ireland and perhaps predictably, students won't be sitting the new international Pisa test designed to assess respect for other cultures, challenge extremism and help identify fake news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42781376

we seem to be in good company. would this fake news thing be neutral or just "russian bot" type?

But some Western countries including England, the United States, Germany, France, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland and Ireland have decided not to take the global competence test, although they will take the other core academic subject tests.

Odhinn

Grim stuff

In March 2016, a 22-year-old man was hacked to death in daylight on a crowded road in southern India for marrying a woman of a higher caste. His wife survived the attack and went on to testify against her parents and campaign against the scourge of caste, as the BBC's Soutik Biswas reports.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-42700361

recedite

silverharp wrote: »

would this fake news thing be neutral or just "russian bot" type?

Serpentine type. He gave the example of a talking snake being a purveyor of fake news.

On the new Pisa "global competences" test, I'd be curious to see some examples of the questions. Does it test knowledge or opinion?
It's possible to have a good knowledge of globalisation or multiculturalism without being a supporter.

silverharp

recedite wrote: »

Serpentine type. He gave the example of a talking snake being a purveyor of fake news.

On the new Pisa "global competences" test, I'd be curious to see some examples of the questions. Does it test knowledge or opinion?
It's possible to have a good knowledge of globalisation or multiculturalism without being a supporter.

I missed the popey link , i got the impression that they would be measuring opinions as opposed to knowledge

recedite

silverharp wrote: »

i got the impression that they would be measuring opinions as opposed to knowledge

Or some combination of both, and there's the rub. Its probably a test that is best avoided.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Or some combination of both, and there's the rub. Its probably a test that is best avoided.

You're admitting you haven't the first clue about it but have come to a conclusion nonetheless.
Rigorous.

silverharp

funnily enough we had a parent teachers meeting a while back and the civics or whatever they call it now teacher had a test that a 4th year had done. basically put names to well known political faces,i even think the list of names were given and it was a mess, couldnt identify Putin, Obama, etc. the only question I guess is this kind of knowledge important for school kids?

oscarBravo

Well, we wouldn't want to teach children the ability to think critically, now would we?

Hector Savage

https://www.hoover.org/research/no-platform-brigade

recedite

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.hoover.org/research/no-platform-brigade

Good quotes from Ataturk and Churchill there, at least they agreed on something :pac:
Not sure what either of them would make of today's news, 100 years later, from Ofsted referring to some English schools;

According to Ms Spielman, some individuals want to narrow students' horizons: "Under the pretext of religious belief, they use education institutions, legal and illegal, to narrow young people's horizons, to isolate and segregate, and in the worst cases to indoctrinate impressionable minds with extremist ideology.

Hotblack Desiato

Mary McAleese barred by Vatican from conference on women

The Vatican has barred former President of Ireland Mary McAleese from taking part in a conference to mark International Women’s Day which was originally due to take place in the Holy See.

The list of potential speakers required approval from a cardinal, but Mrs McAleese was not granted permission to participate.

As a result, the organisers have moved the “Why Women Matter” conference on March 8th to premises outside the Vatican, and have also invited Mrs McAleese to be keynote speaker. She had previously been asked to take part in a panel discussion at the event.

The conference was organised by the Voices of Faith group, which is seeking to convince the Vatican that women “have the expertise, skills and gifts to play a full leadership role in the church”.

The inclusion of Mary McAleese and two other speakers on its programme was opposed by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, prefect of the Dicastery for the Laity, Family and Life. A Dubliner who spent most of his clerical life in the US, he is the most senior Irishman at the Vatican.

Really looks like a score being settled over the marriage equality campaign.

Hector Savage

recedite wrote: »

Good quotes from Ataturk and Churchill there, at least they agreed on something :pac:
Not sure what either of them would make of today's news, 100 years later, from Ofsted referring to some English schools;

Well I am glad the schools inspector is bringing it to attention and not sweeping it under the carpet.

recedite

The Vatican would be mad to invite McAleese in to talk about gender inequality. She'd have almost as many complaints as Mary Robinson.

The Voices of Faith say;

We live in times marked by change, but there are places where gender equality is being systematically overlooked. The Catholic Church is one of them.

Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

The Vatican would be mad to invite McAleese in to talk about gender inequality. She'd have almost as many complaints as Mary Robinson.

The Voices of Faith say;
Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

Mary went and studied in Rome, presumably with the stupid idea that a knowledge of canon law would do her some good, which imagines that the church is just run by different rules, not just an instititution bending whatever rules it wants to protect its own power.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

Some people still think it's the one and only way to obtain a ticket to eternal paradise. If you actually believed that, you'd still be keen to be a member no matter what this organisation did.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Well, if you don't like the rules of the club, why so keen to be a member?

So you can work towards change in the rules, perhaps.

Your argument is akin to saying that if you don't like Irish abortion law, you can just go and live in England.

spacecoyote

https://twitter.com/AtheistRepublic/status/960400177155715072

You don't want to be one of those intelligent types in this guys church

Hector Savage

spacecoyote wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AtheistRepublic/status/960400177155715072

You don't want to be one of those intelligent types in this guys church

What a dangerous dangerous dangerous cnut!!

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

So you can work towards change in the rules, perhaps.

Your argument is akin to saying that if you don't like Irish abortion law, you can just go and live in England.

There are other Christian churches that have women priests, but RCC have made it crystal clear that their rules are not for changin'.

I'd say its more like trying to remove the rear window of your car so you can fit your ladder in, when you could have just bought a van instead

Zubeneschamali

recedite wrote: »

There are other Christian churches that have women priests, but RCC have made it crystal clear that their rules are not for changin'.

You mean the RCC hierarchy have said that.

They are not the Church, and we shall see if the rules are for changin. They chnged lots of rules in the past, even just in my lifetime.

recedite

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You mean the RCC hierarchy have said that.

Its not a democracy. Never has been.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Its not a democracy. Never has been.

Even non-democracies change their rules!

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

Even non-democracies change their rules!

Yes, but only when it suits the people who are in charge.

Petitioning such people from a position of weakness only serves to emphasise your own willingness to be trampled upon.

Peregrinus

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but only when it suits the people who are in charge.

Which is also true of democracies, when you think about it.

recedite wrote: »

Petitioning such people from a position of weakness only serves to emphasise your own willingness to be trampled upon.

What you're presenting here is a simple binary between (a) quitting, and (b) "Petitioning [the people in charge] from a position of weakness". The fact that the Mary McAleese's of this world don't just quit might suggest that they don't see their situation in quite such simplistic terms.

recedite

Democracies are subject to the whims of the majority, which is usually a good thing, but not always.
I'd imagine that the majority of the RCC membership would be in favour of full gender equality. But that does not matter to those who control it.

Its probably fair to say that the two most successful religions of all time have been the RCC and Sunni Islam. Both are fundamentally undemocratic and neither are known for being pioneers of gender equality.

Its not for me to criticise success. Perhaps there is some fundamental need in the human psyche that draws people towards centres of power. Even those who are destined to become the grist to the mill.

Hector Savage

Just a bit of Hate Speech ...

https://twitter.com/AtheistRepublic/status/960763107919441920

robindch

seamus wrote: »

Have to give the guy kudos for his 4-second steam-propelled flight in 2014. That didn't happen by accident.

Mike tries again. Mike fails again. WaPo is not hopeful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/02/06/a-flat-earther-finally-tried-to-fly-away-his-rocket-didnt-even-ignite/

magicbastarder

Photoshopped Jesus image leads to fining of Instagram user
Spanish court finds Daniel Serrano guilty of offending religious feelings with picture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/photoshopped-jesus-image-leads-to-fining-of-instagram-user-1.3386743?a=d

recedite

Oddly enough, you have to go to a Spanish newspaper to see the image, as the Irish one has redacted it.

Scroll down to the comments, and there are a few more people joining in with their own images

Hotblack Desiato

It's showing up on the IT for me?

recedite

There is a grey panel overlaying the IT version of the image, when I open it.

silverharp

Dr Ali, the gift that keeps on giving

https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/prime-time-extras-30003379/10837295/

recedite

Slimy Ali kept on repeating "ask a doctor".
Interviewer should have asked him for the name of a suitable doctor. I'm guessing Ali already knows a few in his congregation who would be willing to oblige with any necessary signature.

silverharp

recedite wrote: »

Slimy Ali kept on repeating "ask a doctor".
Interviewer should have asked him for the name of a suitable doctor. I'm guessing Ali already knows a few in his congregation who would be willing to oblige with any necessary signature.

also these illusive medical reasons? probably a 1 in a million chance of it being real

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

There is a grey panel overlaying the IT version of the image, when I open it.

Disable JavaScript and reload it.

Anyway the image was in yesterday's print edition so there'd be no reason not to publish it online.

Hotblack Desiato

FGM is illegal, doctor or no doctor.

Selim should be deported and made persona non grata in this country.

Hector Savage

Melbourne archbishop says he'd rather go to jail than report child abuse heard in confession

Denis Hart says ‘communication with God is of a higher order’ after child sex abuse inquiry calls for failure to report to become a criminal offence

Christ.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/15/melbourne-archbishop-says-hed-rather-go-to-jail-than-report-child-abuse-heard-in-confession

silverharp

And here was me thinking Student Unions were a write off these days, they seem to have turned on the good doctor


TCD Students' Union‏ @tcdsu


Below is a copy of a Letter @TCDSU_President delivered to the Provost today. TCDSU demands the dismissal, without delay, of Ali Selim.

Trent Houseboat

Typical campus craziness, snowflake SJWs offended by and trying to limit Dr Selim's free speech.

silverharp

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Typical campus craziness, snowflake SJWs offended by and trying to limit Dr Selim's free speech.

recedite

Am I the only one who didn't know the TCD school of near and middle earth existed?
Seems to be divided between Holocaust studies, Arabic studies, and Persian/Iranian studies. (I presume they mean Farsi by the latter)
Strange bedfellows indeed :pac:
Anyway, I am equally delighted to see the SU making the complaint, and appalled at the sudden realisation that some of my taxes could have have been making their way into Ali's pocket.

Trent Houseboat

recedite wrote: »

Am I the only one who didn't know the TCD school of near and middle earth existed?
Seems to be divided between Holocaust studies, Arabic studies, and Persian/Iranian studies. (I presume they mean Farsi by the latter)
Strange bedfellows indeed :pac:
Anyway, I am equally delighted to see the SU making the complaint, and appalled at the sudden realisation that some of my taxes could have have been making their way into Ali's pocket.

Pampered academics sitting around in padded elbowed coats discussing whether Mithrandir or Galdalf is the appropriate nomenclature.

nomdeboardie

Selim was on near the end of TV3's The Pat Kenny Show tonight weasel-wording some sort of retraction based on deficiencies in his understanding of medicine and English. Whatever - I find it hard to imagine that he was afraid the proposed new law might prevent ...what?...maybe life-saving surgery for extremely rare cases of childhood cancer in that area? It's clear he had an agenda and I don't feel he was interrogated sufficiently on this by the host.

K.Flyer

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Selim was on near the end of TV3's The Pat Kenny Show tonight weasel-wording some sort of retraction based on deficiencies in his understanding of medicine and English. Whatever - I find it hard to imagine that he was afraid the proposed new law might prevent ...what?...maybe life-saving surgery for extremely rare cases of childhood cancer in that area? It's clear he had an agenda and I don't feel he was interrogated sufficiently on this by the host.

Ali Selime was backpedaling like a good thing trying to save his skin knowing full well this time his Islamic ideals are being rejected and condemned, especially when another senior Muslim cleric had come out against him.