The Hazards of Belief

silverharp

All for this this backwards procedure to be banned, if no society had ever practiced it and someone suggested it today you would be thrown in a loony bin. Interesting to see if it passes as some other Nordic countries have been pondering the issue. I believe once the age of consent is reached they are free to make their choice so overall a reasonable compromise.



Jewish leaders hit out over Iceland

The proposal has been put forward by Progressive Party MP Silja Dögg Gunnarsdóttir and is backed by several other Icelandic politicians.

Circumcising girls has been illegal in Iceland since 2005, but there is no provision for boys, Gunnarsdóttir told Euronews.

The bill proposes a six-year prison term for anyone found guilty of “removing part or all of the [child’s] sexual organs”.

Gunnarsdóttir said she was acting on advice issued by children’s ombudsmen in five Nordic countries. They said in 2013 that “circumcision without a medical indication on a person unable to provide informed consent conflicts with basic principles of medical ethics, particularly because the operation is irreversible, painful and may cause serious complications."

silverharp

A YouTuber who claimed being vegan cured her cancer has died from cancer

https://babe.net/2018/02/14/a-youtuber-who-claimed-being-vegan-cured-her-cancer-has-died-from-cancer-35318/amp

A YouTuber who said that eating a raw vegan diet, drinking juice and praying to God cured her cancer has passed away.

Mari Lopez, one half of the vlogging duo Liz & Mari, succumbed to an aggressive terminal cancer that spread to her blood, liver and lungs.

She was known for posting viral videos about how she was able to cure her stage four diagnosis through faith in God and following a strict diet of raw vegetables.

Today in an interview with babe, Liz Johnson, who made videos with her aunt Mari, doubled down on her beliefs, saying she "completely" stood by what she posted.

Liz & Mari made a YouTube channel to share videos on how to cure cancer

Liz & Mari, whose videos amassed hundreds of thousands of views, regularly posted about how Mari had recovered from a terminal diagnosis through her Christian faith and her discovery of lemon and ginger juice.

They told their followers in no uncertain terms that they could do the same, uploading how-to videos like STAGE 4 CANCER HEALED BY JUICING & RAW VEGAN DIET PART ONE (nearly 300k views, part two had over 400k).

iz & Mari gave recipes for juices that would clean "all the toxins" out of your system, and advised what kind of juicing machines work best. In a video, Mari pointed at one juicer and said: "I recovered from cancer with this machine."

Their videos inspired an outpouring of misguided love from cancer patients and religious viewers who thanked Liz & Mari for sharing their journey. Some fans even said they would encourage their partners to follow a juice diet for their cancer diagnosis.

robindch

silverharp wrote: »

babe.net wrote:

outpouring of misguided love

...which reminds me to make my annual recommendation that anybody who's even mildly suspicious of the outpouring of pink things at the slightest mention of cancer, should go grab a copy of Barbara Ehrenreich's "Smile or Die":

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/10/smile-or-die-barbara-ehrenreich

robindch

Pastor experiences multiple highs but some are of the wrong kind.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/03/12/la-pastor-who-put-up-controversial-199-foot-tall-cross-arrested-on-meth-charges/

pauldla

From Patheos:

Christianity is dangerous

Jesus Christianity made bomb threats.

Read that sentence again.

recedite

Jesus, he's the kind of guy that gives Christianity a bad name!

pauldla

From Patheos:

Stephen Hawking dies. Religious nuts gloat at the idea of him now burning in hell.

Stay classy, faithful.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Pastor experiences multiple highs but some are of the wrong kind.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/03/12/la-pastor-who-put-up-controversial-199-foot-tall-cross-arrested-on-meth-charges/

Reminiscent of the 'crystal methodist'.

Peregrinus

pauldla wrote: »

From Patheos:

Christianity is dangerous

Jesus Christianity made bomb threats.

Read that sentence again.

Bit of a digression here, since it has nothing to do with the hazards of belief, but I hope boardies will forgive me.

What struck me reading the reports of Jesus Christianity's trial was that none of the media sources made any reference to his weird name, or how he came by it. (Though I suppose we could hazard a guess that there's a deed poll somewhere in his history.)

Well, meet Meow-Ludo Disco Gamma Meow-Meow, a 33-year old man who has his own troubles with the law, though they are happily less grave than Christianity's. Once again, the weirdest and most interesting thing about this man is scrupulously ignored throughout the report.

Huntergonzo

More of the same from religious lunatics, nothing less to be expected really, they'll get their rocks over over Stephen Hawking's death and the truly insane fantasy that he is burning in whatever hell their own particular sky fairy told about.

pauldla

From Patheos:

Jesus taught me to play the saxophone while I was dead

Atheists, you don't know what you're missing....

pauldla

From Wokesloth.com:

The 'Sweet Jesus' ice cream parlor chain in Canada is annoying some Christians:

Christians Are Having Meltdowns Over This ‘Satanic’ Ice Cream Shop

Odhinn

"A young farmer from the lowest rung of India's caste hierarchy - the Dalit community - has been beaten to death, apparently for owning and riding a horse.

Police in Gujarat state said three upper-caste men had been detained for questioning.

The victim's father said his son had been warned not to ride the horse as this was an upper-caste privilege."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43605550

robindch

The number of catholics attending religious services continues its decades-long decline:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/catholics-attending-mass-gallup-study_us_5acd082ae4b06a6aac8c7506

smacl

With all the talk of targeted advertising of late, I stifled a laugh when presented with this on the A&A this morning. You think maybe the algorithm forked up or am I due a conversion in the near future?

Peregrinus

Well, just remember that the internet knows you better than you know yourself!

I'm also getting an ad from Mary Immaculate College, but it's not for for Christian Leadership, but "research programmes in education". Not sure whether the internet thinks I need better research skills, or just more education.

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, just remember that the internet knows you better than you know yourself

Artificial stupidity still alive and well on the world wide web. Don't think the robots will be taking over just yet.

robindch

10% of 80% of 50% of national income could be what? Asking for a friend.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43286733

Odhinn

robindch wrote: »

10% of 80% of 50% of national income could be what? Asking for a friend.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43286733

I'm having maths class flash backs now

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/bavarian-crusade-sparks-political-protest-1.3476941

Bavarian crusade sparks political protest


While thousands of Berliners donned kippas this week in protest against rising anti-Semitism, Bavaria’s conservative state government has embraced the crucifix.

Bavaria’s new state premier, Markus Söder, issued a decree ordering all state ministries and public offices to display a cross in their entrance halls from June 1st.

Then Mr Söder underscored the surprise announcement with a photo opportunity: hanging a brass cross in the hallway of his state chancellery in Munich. But the politician’s public embrace of the cross, as a “symbol of Bavaria’s cultural and historical imprint”, has sparked a backlash.

Political rivals, media critics and even usually sympathetic outlets in Catholic, conservative Bavaria have united in criticising Mr Söder’s move as a cynical manoeuvre before October’s state election.

“Quite literally, nothing is sacred to Markus Söder,” said Christian Lindner, leader of the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) in Berlin. Green Party co-leader Katrin Göring Eckardt, a Lutheran theologian, accused him of hijacking the cross “for a cheap election stunt” in public.

The Bavarian leader knows, too, his policy is likely to spark a legal challenge at the constitutional court. In the past it has banned crucifixes from public buildings, and schools in Bavaria, citing the constitutional provisions that the state show religious neutrality.

But any hearing, let alone a verdict, will come long after Bavaria’s election in October. “Until then he can present himself as St Sebastian,” joked Die Zeit in a hotly-discussed article on its website.

silverharp

did a 5 year old hack his account :pac:


https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/990553785415200773

Odhinn

silverharp wrote: »

did a 5 year old hack his account :pac:


https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/990553785415200773

He's had too many draws on the aul peace pipe I'd say.

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/bavarian-crusade-sparks-political-protest-1.3476941

Not so much a "hazard" though, as the guy has obviously weighed up the pros and cons quite carefully, and decided its a good political move.

But its absolute majority is in danger, according to polls, with the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) threatening to eat into its support in October as it did at last September’s federal election.
Mr Söder has made a calculated gamble, confident his policy will appeal to frustrated CSU conservative voters outside Bavaria’s big cities, particularly those on the front lines of the 2015-2016 refugee crisis.

The inevitable legal challenge will provide him with even more publicity, and then it will allow him to play the martyr when he loses.

If saner policies had been in place over the last few years, then this kind of thing would be looked on as barmy by the electorate. But one kind of insanity provokes an equal but opposite kind of insanity (these are the laws of the universe )

silverharp

Hazards of belief or unbelief? I'd have to side with the Bishop on this one, their house their rules and all that

http://www.thejournal.ie/halligan-confirmation-4024884-May2018/

MINISTER OF STATE John Halligan has criticised what he described as a “petty” move from the Catholic Church after he was prevented from acting as his godson’s sponsor at a confirmation mass yesterday.

The Waterford TD has claimed that the decision was made because of his views on abortion and his atheist stance.

In a statement, Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan said that a sponsor must be a “confirmed and practising Catholic” and that guidelines had been circulated to all parishes in the diocese in March this year.

Zubeneschamali

silverharp wrote: »

Hazards of belief or unbelief? I'd have to side with the Bishop on this one, their house their rules and all that

This would be in line with Ratzinger's idea that the church should shrink to a dedicated core and get rid of all the wishy washy half-believers.

I am on board with the shrinking part.

nuac

If he professes to be an atheist why should be complain at being excluded from a Christian ceremony?

Also be going public he may have embarrassed the family involved.

Zubeneschamali

nuac wrote: »

If he professes to be an atheist why should be complain at being excluded from a Christian ceremony?

This is a christening we are talking about, a social gathering of the extended family. At most christenings, you can count the believers in the church on two hands - they are the ones who know all the stand up-sit down-shake it all about moves. Extra points for the ones who don't stumble over all the prayer words that have changed since they were in primary school.

Peregrinus

nuac wrote: »

If he professes to be an atheist why should be complain at being excluded from a Christian ceremony?

Also be going public he may have embarrassed the family involved.

He's not excluded from the ceremony; I'm pretty sure he'd be welcome to attend. He's excluded from taking on the role of sponsor, a role which, if he is sincere in his atheism, he would not be fitted to discharge.

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

He's excluded from taking on the role of sponsor, a role which, if he is sincere in his atheism, he would not be fitted to discharge.

I am an atheist godparent myself (in my case to atheist parents who don't care), but I would have no issues educating a godchild about the Catholic faith. They might learn a few things they wouldn't hear from the parish priest, but that is perhaps as it should be.

Peregrinus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I am an atheist godparent myself (in my case to atheist parents who don't care), but I would have no issues educating a godchild about the Catholic faith. They might learn a few things they wouldn't hear from the parish priest, but that is perhaps as it should be.

The role involves a bit more than simply telling someone about the faith. You're supposed to exemplify it, which presumably is not something many atheists would be willing or able to do.

(That's why they have a rule that says that godparents should be active Catholics. It's not just a lets-be-mean-to-atheists thing.)

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

The role involves a bit more than simply telling someone about the faith. You're supposed to exemplify it, which presumably is not something many atheists would be willing or able to do.

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

recedite

Aren't you supposed to swear or promise at some point in the ceremony to help bring up the child in the faith?
I've been asked a few times, but I always turned down the role.

One eyed Jack

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This would be in line with Ratzinger's idea that the church should shrink to a dedicated core and get rid of all the wishy washy half-believers.

I am on board with the shrinking part.

Halligan has no legitimate grounds for complaint here. The requirements are pretty straightforward -


Statement of Meeting the Requirements of Canon Law  For Being a Confirmation Sponsor
 

Nothing whatsoever to do with his politics.

Pawwed Rig

You just nod and smile during the ceremony. Nothing more too it. Same with the communion that they'll be forced into and the confirmation and eventual wedding and funeral (with less smiling). They are empty formalities where one must prostitute themselves to get by in this country.

Peregrinus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

Hey! I've been secretary of the local Evil Atheist Conspiracy chapter ever since I showed up to an AGM one year and got stuck with the job!

pauldla

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Hey! I've been secretary of the local Evil Atheist Conspiracy chapter ever since I showed up to an AGM one year and got stuck with the job!

Next time don't bring Custard Creams. I learned that lesson the hard way.

ohnonotgmail

Peregrinus wrote: »

The role involves a bit more than simply telling someone about the faith. You're supposed to exemplify it, which presumably is not something many atheists would be willing or able to do.

(That's why they have a rule that says that godparents should be active Catholics. It's not just a lets-be-mean-to-atheists thing.)

I have two godchildren. I've never been asked by the priest if i was an active catholic. Mot priests would probably be afraid of the answer they receive from the majority.

ohnonotgmail

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Peregrinus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Possibly not, although why you think the comparison with priests is relevant here is not clear. Very few godparents are priests.

But the role of a godparent is not to be "a good example" in general; it's to exemplify Catholic faith in particular. Which, obviously, will be a bit of a stretch
for an atheist.

One eyed Jack

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

How do you make that out?

ohnonotgmail

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

Just sayin.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Might suggest that you're not a very good atheist!

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

One does not need to believe in god to be a better example to children than most priests.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Possibly not, although why you think the comparison with priests is relevant here is not clear. Very few godparents are priests.

I mentioned priests because that is what i was responding to. how is that not clear?

Peregrinus wrote: »

But the role of a godparent is not to be "a good example" in general; it's to exemplify Catholic faith in particular. Which, obviously, will be a bit of a stretch for an atheist.

Perhaps the mechanics of it would be but if that is the most important part of being a catholic then it is no wonder the church is failing.

Peregrinus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I mentioned priests because that is what i was responding to. how is that not clear?

You quoted a post of mine which said nothing about priests, which in turn quoted a post of Zub's which was about himself, and he's not a priest (that I know of). The whole in a discussion of the role of godparents. So it wasn't clear that you were actually responding to a post about priests.

As a matter of interest, what post were you responding to?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps the mechanics of it would be but if that is the most important part of being a catholic then it is no wonder the church is failing.

Sorry, you've lost me. If what is the most important part of being a Catholic?

ohnonotgmail

Peregrinus wrote: »

You quoted a post of mine which said nothing about priests, which in turn quoted a post of Zub's which was about himself, and he's not a priest (that I know of). The whole in a discussion of the role of godparents. So it wasn't clear that you were actually responding to a post about priests.

As a matter of interest, what post were you responding to?

The post i responded was a quote of a quote of a quote. I was respond to this subthread if you like.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Sorry, you've lost me. If what is the most important part of being a Catholic?

the mechanics of being a catholic. going through the motions.

Peregrinus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The post i responded was a quote of a quote of a quote. I was respond to this subthread if you like.

But I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that priests are good role models. You may be refuting a point which no-one has made.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the mechanics of being a catholic. going through the motions.

Ah, right, with you now. But the only person in this thread who has suggested that all a godparents needs to be able to do is mouth the responses is, in fact, an atheist. You can hardly hold that up as an example of an attitude besetting the Catholic church.

ohnonotgmail

Peregrinus wrote: »

But I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that priests are good role models. You may be refuting a point which no-one has made.

Quite the opposite. It was suggested that priest are bad role models.

I'm a better example than a lot of priests.

You asked how the poster could be a good atheist if that were true. I responded to that.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ah, right, with you now. But the only person in this thread who has suggested that all a godparents needs to be able to do is mouth the responses is, in fact, an atheist. You can hardly hold that up as an example of an attitude besetting the Catholic church.

We must go to very different baptisms. "Mouth the responses" is pretty much what everybody does. If they even bother to do that.

Peregrinus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We must go to very different baptisms. "Mouth the responses" is pretty much what everybody does. If they even bother to do that.

Yes, I know. But who has suggested that that is the entirety of their role? That;s like suggesting that the sole or most important duty of a spouse is to say "I do" at the apt moment.

Hector Savage

Maybe the Crocodile was Catholic ?

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44366360

Crocodile kills Ethiopian pastor during lake baptism
4 minutes ago
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Image copyrightSCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY
Image caption
Crocodiles are found in freshwater habitats like rivers and lakes
A crocodile has killed a Protestant pastor who was baptising followers near a lake in southern Ethiopia.

Docho Eshete was conducting the ceremony for about 80 people on Sunday morning at Lake Abaya in Arba Minch town's Merkeb Tabya district.

Residents and police told BBC Amharic a crocodile leapt from the water during the baptism and attacked him.

Pastor Docho died after being bitten on his legs, back and hands.

ohnonotgmail

Hector Savage wrote: »

Maybe the Crocodile was Catholic ?

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44366360

The Lord moves in mysterious ways.

Zubeneschamali

Hector Savage wrote: »

Seriously , how do the religious people there still believe in a God - or at least in the "correct" God after witnessing this ???

If you imagine that no religious person ever noticed that bad things happen to good people, you have a strange imagination.