The Hazards of Belief

joseph brand

biko wrote: »

Stoned to death for being an emo: NINETY Iraqi students killed for having 'strange hair and tight clothes'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112960/90-students-Iraq-stoned-death-having-Emo-hair-tight-clothes.html

Al-Bayaty said the killings appear to have been carried out by extremist Shia militias in mostly poor Shia neighborhoods and said she suspected 'there's complicity of the Ministry of Interior in the killings.'
A group of armed men dressed in civilian clothing led dozens of teenagers to secluded areas a few days ago, stoned them to death, and then disposed their bodies in garbage dumpsters across the capital, according to activists, activists told the Cairo-based al-Akhbar website.
The armed men are said to belong to 'one of the most extremist religious groups' in Iraq.

Killed over a hair style? Animals. Absolutely disgusting. That has to be the worst way to die. Really doesn't bare thinking about.

Galvasean

Poor kids

robindch

biko wrote: »

Stoned to death for being an emo

Jeez, what a hideous end.

Though it makes the punks in Indonesia looks well-treated by comparison:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/dec/14/police-arrest-punks-indonesia#/?picture=383286323&index=1
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/police-give-punks-a-forced-haircut-2963594.html

A few years back, a well-known poster in the Other Forum talked at length, and on quite a few occasions, about the moral failures of punks and the anti-family attitude of kid goths. I'm intrigued to know whether any of these (western) people ever have second thoughts when they see others, as religiously fanatical as they are, actually carrying out the moral remedies that they hope for? Do they ever stop to think?

Delirium

NASA faces trial over alleged discrimination against intelligent design proponent

legspin

If posted before apologies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/doonesbury-strip-texas-abortion-law?INTCMP=SRCH

kylith

koth wrote: »

NASA faces trial over alleged discrimination against intelligent design proponent

I do hope NASA wins. His colleagues complained about being harassed by his proselatisation and he wasn't rehired when his contract expired. It seems like an open and shut case to me.

joseph brand

koth wrote: »

NASA faces trial over alleged discrimination against intelligent design proponent

Is this going to cost NASA money? DeGrasse Tyson will NOT be happy about funding being diverted away from space missions to fight a nut case in court.

Galvasean

koth wrote: »

NASA faces trial over alleged discrimination against intelligent design proponent

I hope they throw the case out and fine him for being stupid and annoying.

robindch

Church of England owns marriage says member of gerontocracy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/church-approval-needed-for-gay-marriage-says-archbishop-of-york-7561456.html

The gerontocrat said that the country's elected leader would be acting "like a dictator", presumably unless he was stopped by an unelected elderly man and his similarly unelected mates.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

Church of England owns marriage says member of gerontocracy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/church-approval-needed-for-gay-marriage-says-archbishop-of-york-7561456.html

The gerontocrat said that the country's elected leader would be acting "like a dictator", presumably unless he was stopped by an unelected elderly man and his similarly unelected mates.

I don't think they will get too far with that. One of the most important tenets of the British constitution is that no parliament can bind another. So, the fact that there has been an act of parliament in the past saying a particular thing is no bar to the current government passing legislation to change it. Additionally, there will be nothing to stop a future government changing it back or changing it to something else.

There are complications when the act is considered to be constitutional, joining the EU for example, these are more binding but can still be changed. I don't think the particular act mentioned are constitutional. Adam Wagner (check out the UK Human Rights Blog, it is very interesting) seems to think it will not be an issue.

MrP

muppeteer

:mad:http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/14/200577.html

A 16-year-old Moroccan girl has committed suicide after a judge ordered her to marry her rapist, according to Moroccan media reports.

Should point out that the judge may have pressured her and her family into this rather than forced marriage being explicitly codified in Moroccan law.

Gbear

muppeteer wrote: »

:mad:http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/14/200577.html

Should point out that the judge may have pressured her and her family into this rather than forced marriage being explicitly codified in Moroccan law.

Just read it there. :mad:

Thankfully the wave of democracy should start to make this kind of barbarity a thing of the past.

Turtwig

Gbear wrote: »

Just read it there. :mad:

Thankfully the wave of democracy should start to make this kind of barbarity a thing of the past.

Why should it? Democracy is essentially mob rule. In a democracy if enough people demand it then they must get their wish.

Delirium

muppeteer wrote: »

:mad:http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/14/200577.html

Should point out that the judge may have pressured her and her family into this rather than forced marriage being explicitly codified in Moroccan law.

Article 475 of the Moroccan penal code allows for the “kidnapper” of a minor to marry his victim to escape prosecution, and it has been used to justify a traditional practice of making a rapist marry his victim to preserve the honor of the woman’s family.

:(

recedite

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives". deuteronomy22

The text seems ambiguous as to whether the 50 shekels is still payable if the girl dies before the rapist has had a chance to pay over the money. Still, its the word of god.

Fortyniner

recedite wrote: »

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives". deuteronomy22

The text seems ambiguous as to whether the 50 shekels is still payable if the girl dies before the rapist has had a chance to pay over the money. Still, its the word of god.

Now how should this be applied to an Irish catholic priest?? Probably best just to cover it up and move him on....

robindch

The Vatican gets serious and launches a rare "criminal investigation".

This investigation will try to figure out who leaked documents alleging cronyism, nepotism and corruption amongst Vatican officials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17410490

recedite

For a moment there I thought the investigation would try to root out cronyism, nepotism and corruption amongst Vatican officials.

Sarky

"grave acts of disloyalty"?

Oh dear. Loyalty is great and all, but putting it before things like integrity, justice, all the child rape stuff... that's not good.

Not surprising, really.

robindch

What happens when the heat gets too much in Jerusalem:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/02/ff_jerusalemsyndrome/all/1

The second-last paragraph is worth waiting for.

joseph brand

robindch wrote: »

What happens when the heat gets too much in Jerusalem:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/02/ff_jerusalemsyndrome/all/1

The second-last paragraph is worth waiting for.

There’s a joke in psychiatry: If you talk to God, it’s called praying; if God talks to you, you’re nuts.

The Republican presidential candidates all said that jesus/ god talks to them. Some said that he/ she/ it told them to run for President.

But more severe cases can lead otherwise normal housewives from Dallas or healthy tool-and-die manufacturers from Toledo to hear the voices of angels or fashion the bedsheets of their hotel rooms into makeshift togas and disappear into the Old City babbling prophecy. . . it wasn’t that long ago that one respected Israeli physician put two patients who both claimed to be the Messiah in a room together just to see what would happen. Each rabidly accused the other of being an impostor, barking fire-and-brimstone threats. . . . One of his early cases involved an Englishwoman who was so convinced the Second Coming was at hand that she climbed to the top of Jerusalem’s Mt. Scopus every morning with a cup of tea to welcome the Lord.

Delirium

Gay marriage is not a human right, according to European ruling

[..]the judges said there had been no discrimination.

Judges also said that if same-sex unions became lawful, any church that refuses to marry gay couples could be charged with discrimination.

"With regard to married couples, the court considers that in view of the social, personal, and legal consequences of marriage, the applicants’ legal situation could not be said to be comparable to that of married couples," the judges added.

Haven't seen any info yet as to what reasons were given as to why it isn't a human right.

dmw07

I've no real interest in any christian pope but the selection process, of how the next coptic pope will be chosen prompted me to alert people. Be careful if going to Egypt any time soon you may end up the pope of the place. :eek:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-20/africa/world_africa_egypt-coptic-pope_1_egypt-s-christian-coptic-christian-community-coptic-church?_s=PM:AFRICA

His successor's name will be chosen by a blindfolded child from among three finalists chosen by community leaders -- a process that could take months.

Mark Hamill

koth wrote: »

Judges also said that if same-sex unions became lawful, any church that refuses to marry gay couples could be charged with discrimination.

Do christian churches have to allow muslims couples get married in them? Do Jewish synagogues have to allow hindu couples to get married in them?

I don understand why they can't just say that homosexuals can have marriage, but not necessarily a religious marriage (if that religion doesn't allow for it). Its not like religions don't already discriminate against homosexuals in terms of employment (no gay priests) or entry to heaven.

Delirium

Exactly why I'm hoping they actually have a non-religious reason for the judgement. As you say, the churches already have exemptions from discrimination legislation in other areas.

joseph brand

Cape Town faith healing event ends in one death and 16 injuries!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9154179/Cape-Town-faith-healing-event-ends-in-one-death-and-16-injuries.html

Simon Williams, a 56-year-old pastor from nearby Paarl, was taken from hospital intensive care to the event by his family. He collapsed and died from renal failure inside the stadium.

Faith killed him. Moreover, how the hell was he allowed to be discharged from the hospital?

seamus

joseph brand wrote: »

Moreover, how the hell was he allowed to be discharged from the hospital?

You can't really imprison someone in hospital. Technically very little stopping someone from discharging themselves provided that they can sign the forms.
In some jurisdictions, family may have the power to do this on the sick person's behalf.

Also depends on the country too I suppose. In this country if you told your doctor that you were discharging yourself from ICU to go to Lourdes, they'd be straight down the court to get an order to have you declared mentally incompetent or something. On the other hand if you told them you were leaving so that you could go and die at home, they might not argue.

In another country the hospital staff may turn a blind eye or even support the idea of a religious intervention.

One would hope that stories of idiocy on this level would discourage people from attending these snake-oil conventions, but most likely this man's family have rationalised the death by saying that, "God decided that rather than heal him, he would take him into His arms", or some similar nonsense.

Galvasean

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Do christian churches have to allow muslims couples get married in them? Do Jewish synagogues have to allow hindu couples to get married in them?

I don understand why they can't just say that homosexuals can have marriage, but not necessarily a religious marriage (if that religion doesn't allow for it). Its not like religions don't already discriminate against homosexuals in terms of employment (no gay priests) or entry to heaven.

I never understood the "If gay marriage is allowed then churches will be forced to marry gay people" line of thinking. It's not like the church is the only place you can get married in.

Galvasean

Man goes to Knock, says he's Jesus, get's arrested.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14877%3Aman-ran-barefoot-through-knock-claiming-he-was-jesus&catid=23%3Anews&Itemid=46

Sarky

Alas, if only anti-anxiety medication had been available 2,000 years ago...

mikhail

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Do christian churches have to allow muslims couples get married in them? Do Jewish synagogues have to allow hindu couples to get married in them?

I don understand why they can't just say that homosexuals can have marriage, but not necessarily a religious marriage (if that religion doesn't allow for it). Its not like religions don't already discriminate against homosexuals in terms of employment (no gay priests) or entry to heaven.

Devil's advocate here: churches which turned away black Christians would be in trouble surely? And we've discussed the odd dychotomy of gay Christians here more than once.

joseph brand

seamus wrote: »

You can't really imprison someone in hospital. Technically very little stopping someone from discharging themselves provided that they can sign the forms.
In some jurisdictions, family may have the power to do this on the sick person's behalf.

Also depends on the country too I suppose. In this country if you told your doctor that you were discharging yourself from ICU to go to Lourdes, they'd be straight down the court to get an order to have you declared mentally incompetent or something. On the other hand if you told them you were leaving so that you could go and die at home, they might not argue.

In another country the hospital staff may turn a blind eye or even support the idea of a religious intervention.

One would hope that stories of idiocy on this level would discourage people from attending these snake-oil conventions, but most likely this man's family have rationalised the death by saying that, "God decided that rather than heal him, he would take him into His arms", or some similar nonsense.

Anything is possible in Africa I suppose. They still burn witches and eat Albinos there.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/death-toll-grows-for-african-albinos-hunted-for-witch-doctors-brews/

The family and the deceased may have put up a fight in the hospital ward. I'm visualising a vehement display of ignorance and anger, resulting in the doctor thinking "Ah feck it, why bother, let them off"!

amacachi

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Do christian churches have to allow muslims couples get married in them? Do Jewish synagogues have to allow hindu couples to get married in them?

I don understand why they can't just say that homosexuals can have marriage, but not necessarily a religious marriage (if that religion doesn't allow for it). Its not like religions don't already discriminate against homosexuals in terms of employment (no gay priests) or entry to heaven.

Go one step further and you have my stance, no marriage. Private contract between two people, if they wish to do something in a church they're a member of then great, they can still pose for the signing the book picture etc.

muppeteer

mikhail wrote: »

Devil's advocate here: churches which turned away black Christians would be in trouble surely? And we've discussed the odd dychotomy of gay Christians here more than once.

I suppose as a private club they can allow in only the members they want to. No gays or gingers etc.
But as a club open to and offering services to the public they might become more like a shop, which as far as I know, can't discriminate on race grounds.

In the UK they also have a state sponsored CofE so that further complicates issues there as to how private/club like it is.

Here at least, if we legalise gay marriage, then I wouldn't see a need to force churches to marry anyone they don't want to.

muppeteer

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11/20/graphic-anatomy-of-a-stoning/

Mark Hamill

mikhail wrote: »

Devil's advocate here: churches which turned away black Christians would be in trouble surely? And we've discussed the odd dychotomy of gay Christians here more than once.

They probably would if any ever did (has it ever been tested?). They already discriminate based on homosexuality in areas outside of marriage and they already discriminate marriage based on religion, so there is nothing stopping them discriminating against gay marriage should it be made legal.
The whole disagreement from the churches arises from the point of view that they own the concept of marriage, that it only counts if it happens in their church under their god. Which is why I have always wondered why christians who argue that marriage only exists according the christian definition of marriage don't also argue that this means that jewish, muslim, hindu etc marriages are all invalid as they where all conducted in the wrong building, under the wrong god.

I'm of the same (or similar) opinion as amacachi: marriage is a private civil contract and should be open to all consenting citizens over 18; Weddings are ceremonies which may have religious connotations and so should have the agreement of the religious organisation you are a member of and whose buildings or services you are using (but thats not to say you can't have a wedding without religious connotations).

bnt

When I heard about the shootings in France, I mentally chastised myself for my first reaction, which was "it's a Muslim nutter". It's too easy, because a) France's Muslim population have been under political pressure over headscarves, violence, education, and numbers of immigrants, and b) well, who else these days hates Jews with sufficient venom to explicitly target a Jewish school and shoot children?

Was I wrong in my first reaction? No:

According to French prosecutors, he has expressed no regrets other than "not having claimed more victims" and is proud of having "brought France to its knees".

He said he had been motivated by the fate of the Palestinians, the French military presence in Afghanistan and France's ban on the full veil, prosecutor Francois Molins told reporters.

Earlier, the suspect had reportedly described himself as an Islamist warrior and member of the al-Qaeda network.

French news channel BFM TV said he was linked to Forsane Alizza (Knights of Pride), an Islamist group banned last month in France.

:rolleyes:

amacachi

bnt wrote: »

Was I wrong in my first reaction? No:

What did you think about what happened in Norway last year?

Delirium

Tennessee bill protects teachers who challenge evolution and climate change

Tennessee opens the door to creationism entering the science class.

The state legislature of Tennessee has given legal cover to public school teachers to challenge the science of evolution and climate change, in a move that looks set to deepen a debate about politicisation of the classroom.

The bill passed in the Tennessee Senate this week provides legal protection to teachers who personally do not believe in evolution or the human causes of climate change, and instead want to teach the "scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories".

recedite

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I don understand why they can't just say that homosexuals can have marriage, but not necessarily a religious marriage (if that religion doesn't allow for it).

Its not just about religion though, its about holding the EU together, and not having its institutions make directives that member states would refuse to implement. Plenty of EU states would react against being "told" by "eurocrats" to bring in gay marriage (including Ireland). "They" will no more try to bring in a euro law on this than they will on abortion. What they will do is wait for those nations or societies to "evolve" to the point where they are willing to bring in some kind of gay civil partnerships, voluntarily, and at that stage....
the judges said: "Where national legislation recognises registered partnerships between same sex, member states should aim to ensure that their legal status and their rights and obligations are equivalent to those of heterosexual couples in a similar situation."

Penn

koth wrote: »

Tennessee bill protects teachers who challenge evolution and climate change

Tennessee opens the door to creationism entering the science class.

The bill passed in the Tennessee Senate this week provides legal protection to teachers who personally do not believe in evolution or the human causes of climate change, and instead want to teach the "scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories".

"So, son, what did you learn in school today?"
"Whatever my teacher's own opinions were."
"Err... will that be on the State exams at the end of the year?"
"THE ONLY EXAM IS THE HEAVEN ENTRANCE EXAM, HEATHEN!"

dmw07

The bill passed in the Tennessee Senate this week provides legal protection to teachers who personally do not believe in evolution or the human causes of climate change, and instead want to teach the "scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories".

I wonder could it be extended to cover more areas than just evolution and climate change.

For instance, could a christian religion teacher, teach the reading of islam to children, it being his/her opinion that it is the strongest active religion and that the theory of christianity is weak?

Or is it JUST scientific areas that people like to piss on?

:rolleyes:

Galvasean

dmw07 wrote: »

Or is it JUST scientific areas that people like to piss on?

:rolleyes:

Of course it is. I'm sure critically assessing the weaknesses of various religions in class would be deemed 'intolerant'.
One rule for them...

robindch

A propos of the Mahon Tribunal report yesterday, here's Pee Flynn's unforgettable performance on the Late Late Show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8T0Q03oJSc

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

A propos of the Mahon Tribunal report yesterday, here's Pee Flynn's unforgettable performance on the Late Late Show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8T0Q03oJSc

good ol' Gaybo, "D'ya need three houses?"

joseph brand

I am a little shocked. She says she is a Christian, but the Bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs. Should I let him keep them, as long as he understands that dinosaurs aren't real? Even the PBS shows that he watches talk about dinosaurs and evolution, and how the scientists found these "bones" but the Bible doesn't say that God ever created them, and the earth is only 6,000 years old, not old enough to have "bones" that they say are MILLIONS of years old! I know that Satan tries to trick us in many ways, and this is one way that he tries to fool man into believing that there isn't a God who created the universe. How can they be bones when they are made out of ROCKS? I told my son that dinosaurs are one of Satan's many ways of tricking man, and he must talk to God before he plays with them. Am I handling this right? My first 3 were all girls, and I adopted boys, and lots of mothers tell me that boys are often attracted to these dinosaurs. So I don't know what to do. Is this just harmless fantasy play for him, or should I be worried that he may go on to believe in things like evolution?

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a2517575/my_neighbor_gave_my_8-year-old_toy_dinosaurs.

I came across a similar question on answers.com a few years ago. Maybe it's a big problem for these fools.

robindch

Does boards have a [Florida] tag?

http://freethinker.co.uk/2012/03/22/student-goes-postal-over-peacocks/

The Freethinker wrote:

FEATHERS flew during a classroom discussion about peacocks and evolution at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton when one student became violent and had to be subdued with a taser. It isn’t known yet whether the incident had a religious dimension. According to this report, all hell broke loose when FAU student Jonatha Carr interrupted associate Professor Stephen M Kajiura and asked:

"How does evolution kill black people?"

When Kajiura attempted to explain that evolution doesn’t kill anyone. Carr became violent.

[...etc, etc, etc...]

GO_Bear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6LfTid4IMY

Sorry if Repost, girl goes crazy in lecture on Evolution in Florida

robindch

^^^ Moved to hazards thread for obvious reasons!

GO_Bear

robindch wrote: »

^^^ Moved to hazards thread for obvious reasons!

But its so funny !