The Hazards of Belief

kylith

recedite wrote: »

Damned with faint praise?

It's always possible to find something nice to say about something. This happens to be the best I can do here.

Delirium

Vatican attacks popular U.S. nun over sexuality book

The Vatican criticized a popular American nun on Monday, saying her book on sexual ethics, including topics such as masturbation and homosexuality, contradicted Catholic teaching and must not be used by Catholic educators.

The Vatican's doctrinal department, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a stern "notification" about Sister Margaret A. Farley, a member of the Sisters of Mercy and a professor emeritus of Christian ethics at Yale University.

The Congregation sharply criticized Farley, saying her writings manifest a "defective understanding of the objective nature of natural moral law".

Should the Congregation not have said,"a defective understanding of Roman Catholic moral law"?

Turtwig

koth wrote: »

Should the Congregation not have said,"a defective understanding of Roman Catholic moral law"?

Well the Vatican is never wrong Mm'kay?

Edit : To be honest, haven't read the book but if what the article is saying is true then that nun can't really be considered a Catholic one.

Gbear

"the objective nature of natural moral law"

Good ol' objective natural moral law. It's the kind of law that makes it ok for worms to burrow inside your head and eat your eyes or ebola to exist but thinks sex is evil for some reason.


I'm positive that if children are taught how to use logic and rationality in how they formulate their opinions this kind of **** will cease to exist.

Nodin

Jernal wrote: »

Well the Vatican is never wrong Mm'kay?

Edit : To be honest, haven't read the book but if what the article is saying is true then that nun can't really be considered a Catholic one.

...they really should have some sort of thing they can sign at the start and have to renew every year "I acknowledge that if I want to think for myself, come to my own conclusions and open my yapper about them, this Church is not for me".

MrPudding

Jernal wrote: »

Not sure where exactly to post this in A&A. Would rather avoid that abomination of a thread.

Did anyone else feel Prometheus was a little er pro ID and produced a Darwinian strawman? I know movies don't really need accuracy but this is one that is going to misleadingly resonate (wrongly imo) with a large audience. So yup Hazard!:pac:

Can you elaborate further? Happy to take it to PM so as not to spoil things for those that, for some unknown reason, have not seen it yet.

MrP

Dades

Gbear wrote: »

Good ol' objective natural moral law. It's the kind of law that makes it ok for worms to burrow inside your head and eat your eyes or ebola to exist but thinks sex is evil for some reason.

And sure what could be more natural than celibate grown men.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

And sure what could be more natural than celibate grown men.

Statistics from Dublin suggest that only 93.5% of them were celibate

Hotblack Desiato

Nodin wrote: »

One has to occassionally turn down the brain, or it would render various entertaining movies, books and the like unwatchable.

Sadly, that's true now even of many BBC4 documentaries, and that's supposed to be the 'intellectual' channel

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Statistics from Dublin suggest that only 93.5% of them were celibate

I thought that the 'heavily disputed infamous 6.5% figure' was for allegations of child rape etc. Sex with a consenting adult human (y'know, like what normal people do) isn't included in that.... which raises the question of just how celibate the celibates really are, seeing as most of the 'consenting adult priest-human' sex doesn't make the papers.


Edit: read into 'priest-human' what you will, but afaic they aren't, by defintion, normal humans with normally functioning human emotions and desires.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

Statistics from Dublin suggest that only 93.5% of them were celibate

Do you have a source for that?

MrP

Links234

Interesting article about religious persecution of Heavy Metal fans:

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/158667-the-heavy-metal-witch-hunt-lives-on/

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

I thought that the 'heavily disputed infamous 6.5% figure' was for allegations of child rape etc. Sex with a consenting adult human (y'know, like what normal people do) isn't included in that.... which raises the question of just how celibate the celibates really are, seeing as most of the 'consenting adult priest-human' sex doesn't make the papers.

Well, perhaps I should have said "Statistics from Dublin suggest that, at most, 93.5% of them were celibate".

BTW, the US-based John Jay report on clerical abuse suggests that between 1950 and 2002, the rates of clerical abuse varied within individual dioceses from 3% to a truly unbelievable 24%. See page 30 in this:

http://old.usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/prev3.pdf

Page 35 of the same report claims that for priests ordained between 1960 until 1980, the rate of subsequent suspected clerical abuse year was never less than 6%, and peaked at 12%, amongst diocesan priests ordained in 1970.

robindch

http://www.care2.com/causes/catholic-hospital-denies-gay-man-hiv-medicine.html

Care2 wrote:

A Catholic hospital is being sued for denial of HIV medication to a gay man “for going against God’s will.”

Trinitas Regional Medical Center, says Joao Simoes, admitted him last August but then denied him the medicine he needed and also would not let his sister see him. Denial of access to medicine for people living with HIV/AIDS, even for short periods, can have serious consequences for long term survival because of drug resistance. This can result from missing as few as five doses — which Simoes says he missed.

The complaint says that after admittance he met Dr. Susan V. Borga. She asked him how he had acquired HIV and “closed the plaintiff’s file, put it down and looked at plaintiff with disgust on her face and asked, coldly, ‘Is that from sex with men?’” Three days later, he was finally permitted to ring his personal physician and learned that he had already told Borga about his medication, but he had not received any or been visited by any doctor.

Borga had allegedly told his physician: “You must be gay, too, if you’re his doctor.” The complaint adds:

The Complaint wrote:

Additionally, apparently realizing that plaintiff’s doctor had an accent, Dr. Borga exclaimed, “What, do you need a translator?” to which plaintiff’s doctor had again responded that Dr. Borga needed to give plaintiff his HIV medication.

Dr. Borga responded to plaintiff’s doctor by stating, “This is what he gets for going against God’s will,” and hung up the phone on plaintiff’s doctor.

American Medical Association (AMA) policy is that “physicians can conscientiously object to the treatment of a patient only in non-emergent situations” and that they “must provide alternative(s) which include a prompt and appropriate referral.”

Principle I of the AMA Principles of Medical Ethics calls upon physicians to provide medical care with compassion and respect for human dignity and rights. Accordingly, physicians may not decline to accept patients based on their race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, or “any other basis that would constitute invidious discrimination”

Sarky

What a sh*tty thing to do. If that doesn't make her an ex-doctor I will be very surprised.

Hotblack Desiato

That goes way beyond medical negligence, or misconduct, into the criminal realm imho.

robindch

Christian fundamentalists plan to tell "Good News" to American schoolkids. Specifically, how to legitimize genocide.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/30/christian-fundamentalists-plan-teach-genocide

The Guardian wrote:

[...] The story of Saul and the Amalekites is a case in point. It's not a pretty story, and it is often used by people who don't intend to do pretty things. In the book of 1 Samuel (15:3), God said to Saul:

1 Samuel wrote:

"Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."

Saul dutifully exterminated the women, the children, the babies and all of the men – but then he spared the king. He also saved some of the tastier looking calves and lambs. God was furious with him for his failure to finish the job.

[...]

This fall, more than 100,000 American public school children, ranging in age from four to 12, are scheduled to receive instruction in the lessons of Saul and the Amalekites in the comfort of their own public school classrooms. The instruction, which features in the second week of a weekly "Bible study" course, will come from the Good News Club, an after-school program sponsored by a group called the Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF). The aim of the CEF is to convert young children to a fundamentalist form of the Christian faith and recruit their peers to the club.

There are now over 3,200 clubs in public elementary schools, up more than sevenfold since the 2001 supreme court decision, Good News Club v Milford Central School, effectively required schools to include such clubs in their after-school programing.

[...]

but killing people in video games is WRONG and VIOLENT

Nodin

bluewolf wrote: »

but killing people in video games is WRONG and VIOLENT

....true. Its nearly as bad as the sex.

robindch

In 2006, Margaret Farley said that women should enjoy a good ****, that gay relationships were pretty much a-ok, that divorce had its benefits, as well as a few other things with which the Vatican disagrees to the extend that the Ms Farley recently received a personally-addressed bollocking from the Vatican which apparently stopped just short of silencing her:

http://www.news.va/en/news/notification-from-the-congregation-for-the-doctrin

Farley, btw, is from the US, and she's a nun, and the latest in what's turning into a fairly long line of nuns having their toes stood on by the Vatican's male gerontocracy.

That said, few seem to be listening, since Farley's book has been propelled up the Amazon Best Sellers Rank, from something like 180,000 a few weeks ago to number 26 today:

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Love-Framework-Christian-Sexual/dp/0826429246/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339167521&sr=8-1

Go, sister!

Hotblack Desiato

bluewolf wrote: »

but killing people in video games is WRONG and VIOLENT

What if it was an Old Testament-themed video game? You could play God or Satan. It'd probably end up rated 18.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

In 2006, Margaret Farley said that women should enjoy a good ****

Watching, or lending a hand?

Turtwig

ninja900 wrote: »

What if it was an Old Testament-themed video game? You could play God or Satan. It'd probably end up rated 18.

I believe there was one that actually failed to get a rating. :pac:
Gonna take some time to research this again. ..

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

In 2006, Margaret Farley said that women should enjoy a good ****

Watching, or lending a hand?

Digital self-stimulation, I gather:

Margaret Farley wrote:

Masturbation usually does not raise any moral questions at all ... it is surely the case that many women have found great good in self-pleasuring — perhaps especially in the discovery of their own possibilities for pleasure — something many had not experienced or even known about in their ordinary sexual relations with husbands or lovers. In this way, it could be said that masturbation actually serves relationships rather than hindering them [...]

Which is decidedly strange -- Farley seems to be suggesting that women should figure out how to ****, since "many" had never been with men who'd wanked them?

Now, I've no idea what a nun might think constitutes "ordinary sexual relations", but if she thinks that most men don't engage in at least a little bit of jiggery-wankery upon their partners, then, well, uh, I'm not sure she's the best person to be writing a book about sex.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

Digital self-stimulation, I gather:Which is decidedly strange -- Farley seems to be suggesting that women should figure out how to ****, since "many" had never been with men who'd wanked them?

Now, I've no idea what a nun might think constitutes "ordinary sexual relations", but if she thinks that most men don't engage in at least a little bit of jiggery-wankery upon their partners, then, well, uh, I'm not sure she's the best person to be writing a book about sex.

I read it more as a suggestion that some women might not experience pleasure, full stop, in their sexual relationship, not necessarily that their husband or lover did not, specifically, digitally stimulate them.

I also find it interesting that she mentions "husbands or lovers". Sex before marriage? Never.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Digital self-stimulation, I gather

Yes I know but isn't the phrase 'having a ****' pretty much exclusively used by men?

Which is decidedly strange -- Farley seems to be suggesting that women should figure out how to ****, since "many" had never been with men who'd wanked them?

Any girlfriend I've ever had was already familiar with the art of self-stimulation, including the 'good convent girls' - especially the good convent girls... :eek:

then, well, uh, I'm not sure she's the best person to be writing a book about sex.

I wouldn't read a book about how to cook steak, written by a vegetarian.

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

isn't the phrase 'having a ****' pretty much exclusively used by men?

Not in my experience

Ladies -- thoughts?

robindch

robindch wrote: »

Not in my experience

Ladies -- thoughts?

men only as far as ive ever heard

shizz

Ah it all means the same thing in the end

Sarky

One past girlfriend of mine used to call it "scratching records". Presumably like a 90s dj.

Kivaro

robindch wrote: »

Not in my experience

Ladies -- thoughts?

There should be a way that I get paged/emailed/jolted when threads go in this type of direction. (I will pay extra in my subscription for it).

Now please wait until I have my popcorn ..................



I'm ready. Please continue ................................

Nodin

She is the American nun who after 15 years spent working with war refugees in El Salvador now leads the majority of the 57,000 Catholic sisters in the US. He is the American cardinal who marched in San Francisco protesting against gay marriage and was accused of turning a blind eye to paedophile priests before he took over the Vatican's doctrinal office, the modern version of the Inquisition.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/09/vatican-showdown-america-liberal-nuns

She, however, or any other nun, cannot ever attain his rank, because they have the wrong genitals - a perfectly sane way to run an organisation.

recedite

I'm confused. Whats the difference between digital stimulation and analogue stimulation?

Sarky

Analogue still uses valves, so when it goes wrong it goes very, very wrong.

Cossax

ninja900 wrote: »

Yes I know but isn't the phrase 'having a ****' pretty much exclusively used by men?

I've known one girl who referred to it thus but most don't.
I'd certainly view it as a male action though, doesn't sound right for what women do, IMO.

robindch

Hmm, well, moving along rapidly...

Korean creationists demand that Korean Ministry of Education, Science and Technology remove evidence of evolution from school textbooks. Ministry says, well, basically, that's fine with us:

http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands-1.10773

According to a survey in 2009, around one third of Koreans are creationists.

Delirium

Story from Washington state about a 17 year old that died from a burst appendix as parents try to pray him better :mad:

OKANOGAN — A pretrial ruling upholding a state law that allows faith healing for Christian Scientists but not other religions will go unchallenged now that Greg and JaLea Swezey agreed to plea deals, their lawyer says.

As members of the Church of the First Born, the Swezeys believe in faith healing. They were accused of failing to call a doctor while their 17-year-old son died of a ruptured appendix, and they prayed for him to get better.

Before their trial, Okanogan County Superior Court Judge Chris Culp declined to dismiss their case after their attorneys argued that they were not being treated equally under the law.

State law — RCW 9A.42.005 — allows treatment by a “duly accredited Christian Science practitioner in lieu of medical care” but does not include treatment by other church practitioners.

Source

Jimoslimos

robindch wrote: »

Hmm, well, moving along rapidly...

Korean creationists demand that Korean Ministry of Education, Science and Technology remove evidence of evolution from school textbooks. Ministry says, well, basically, that's fine with us:

http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands-1.10773

According to a survey in 2009, around one third of Koreans are creationists.

And to think Kim-Jong in the North got/gets stick for being crazy:(

eblistic

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0612/1224317755314.html

Church influenced birth procedure, says report

A DRAFT report commissioned by the Government into the use of a controversial childbirth operation says one of the reasons it was used was to obey laws influenced by the Catholic Church that banned contraception and sterilisation.


It is estimated up to 1,500 women underwent symphysiotomies – an operation to widen the pelvis – between the mid-1940s and mid-1980s. The procedure has since been linked with lifelong health problems such as incontinence, chronic pain and mobility problems. ...

Bannasidhe

eblistic wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0612/1224317755314.html

Symphysiotomy was advocated in 1597 by Severin Pineau after his description of a diastasis of the pubis on a hanged pregnant woman. Thus symphysiotomies became a routine surgical procedure for women experiencing an obstructed labour. They became less frequent in the late 19th century after the risk of maternal death post-caesarean section decreased due to improvement in techniques, hygiene, and clinical practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy

fitz0

A bunch of old men telling women how to have children. Yet another reason to look at the church with yet disgust.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands-1.10773

According to a survey in 2009, around one third of Koreans are creationists.

It also found that 40% of biology teachers agreed with the statement that “much of the scientific community doubts if evolution occurs”; and half disagreed that “modern humans are the product of evolutionary processes”

:eek: And I thought that Koreans were a clever bunch! Ah well, it gives a little more hope for the future of Europe as economic power shifts eastwards.

Hotblack Desiato

recedite wrote: »

I'm confused. Whats the difference between digital stimulation and analogue stimulation?

Analogue will turn off on October 24. You'll need to get a new box...

Bannasidhe

ninja900 wrote: »

Analogue will turn off on October 24. You'll need to get a new box...

What? Again?!?! I just managed to get rid of my old old box what had been under the stairs since I got my old new box 2 years ago now you're saying I need a new new box. :mad:

recedite

Sarky wrote: »

Analogue still uses valves, so when it goes wrong it goes very, very wrong.

But digital makes you go blind.
Its a minefield out there.

Sarky

That's true, yeah. Ugh, and don't get me started on the DRM issues.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

That's true, yeah. Ugh, and don't get me started on the DRM issues.

AND it causes carpel tunnel syndrome.

Sarky

It's just a step or two away from forcing a monthly subscription on everyone, you mark my words.

Galvasean

koth wrote: »

Story from Washington state about a 17 year old that died from a burst appendix as parents try to pray him better :mad:

As someone who once had a burst appendix I can assure everyone that it is not a pleasant or quick way to go...

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

It's just a step or two away from forcing a monthly subscription on everyone, you mark my words.

The Digital Stimulation Levy.